As per news article below, taxi owners are launching a class action in Victoria against Uber saying it has cost them $500m in lost revenue. Crazy to think just how badly we were getting ripped off before Uber arrived.
https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/taxi-drivers-…
It's a requirement under law for all taxi drivers to follow all the Road Rules too - is this really a can of worms they want to open?
requirement under law to have a taxi or hire car license to operate
Licensing compliance is a government enforcement matter. Their claim should be directed at the Victorian government for not enforcing the licensing.
Yea I think it's the government that should be going after Uber(or taxi drivers going after the government?). Just seems like a huge corporation just blatantly ignoring the law.
I'd hate if I was taxi driver and suddenly anyone can practically do my job without having to pay the fees to do so.
I personally would still use uber over taxis due to convenience, but others may not.
Not sure what happened in VIC, but here in QLD the gov tried. They ran sting operations to catch Uber drivers, and fined them (a lot, IIRC).
One could certainly argue the gov could have done more to stop Uber. But, IANAL, this case looks like it has merit.
I believe Uber, at least overseas, has paid those fines as well. Which makes it a stronger case against Uber IMO.
To be fair, at no point did Uber pretend to be running a taxi service or a hire car service. Rideshare did not have the same rights as a taxi.
The taxi license gives the drivers the legal permission to park in taxi ranks, permission to use taxi signage, stickers and special passes for toll roads.
The jury is out if they were also granted permissions to smell like a strange combination of body odour, tikka masala and vomit, yet this scent was something that was specific to taxis in my experience.
Personally, I am waiting for Australia Post to start protesting the mass use of emails. Bloody competition.
I just logged in to give a lmao this comment. In my experience there were not much as you described but some are. The only thing I concern is their driving manner, it's too bad and dangerous!! Using their machine to find new customers when driving with customer INSIDE and the level of them using their phone to text/call their mom/wife/friends/ex girlfriends are damn too high! like they own the road!
And it gives them legal permission to ferry passengers as a business.
I don't think taxi drivers are paying up to 500k just for signs and stickers.
Uber is not a commercial taxi service and they certainly are not ferrying passengers as a business - Uber provide a technology platform and have never claimed to be a taxi or a hire car service.
@ajr5k: Of course they never claimed to be such, if they did they would have needed to get the license in which they are tying to avoid, aduh.
Just wait til Uber's lawyers ask to see Notice of Tax Assessments from the taxi driivers, then we will see how much real income was lost as opposed to the tax avoidance.
Hope the drivers wear deodorant and tuck their shirt in when going to court
And hopefully the taxi drivers don't do another stupid and counterproductive protest all around the building blocking traffic.
They are used to do a triple dip - Literally no tax, maximum FTB and also claim low income payment from supplement.
Will be interesting to see what source of income evidence they provide to support purchase of their houses both locally and overseas.
You have the same right to buy a house as everyone else - you also are obliged to pay taxes same as everyone else.
they will need to give up their headphones and stop talking on the phone for 5 minutes
All the tax drivers I Know have nice houses in expensive areas. They bought the houses many years ago, though.
How is buying houses many years ago in any way relevant?
It was cheaper back then and taxi drivers use to make a killing.
Let me translate they killed it back in the days and bought mansions.
Now the new taxi drivers thought they where goin to do the same but unfortunately Uber came and stole there dreams away.
Beat me to it. ^
Someone was making a killing anyway… Taxis in the UK literally cost half as much, while fuel costs double!!!
I've never caught a taxi worldwide as expensive as Australia
@bringbring: huh? I call bullshit. I have caught taxis in many countries and many are way more expensive ESPECIALLY the UK, london specifically is one of the most expensive cities in the world to catch a taxi. It costs almost 50% more than Sydney. Last year London was in the top 10 most expensive, while our most expensive city Sydney was 33rd.
If you want expensive try London, Tokyo, Copenhagen orany of the major cities in Germany.
@gromit: Ok each method is going to vary (and be terribly innacurate), but here's one list from 2015 which shows Sydney slightly ahead of London. To be fair, it does show some euro cities as more expensive (esp Switzerland and Scandinavia obviously… No one is going to dispute that), but I've caught cabs in most EU capitals which seemed cheaper than aus.
Two things to consider:
1) many EU cities have fixed fares from the airport, which account for most of my taxis there
2) in much of the UK you don't take 'black cabs', but prebook taxis which have fixed fares in advance, costing you ~2/3 of walk up prices
@bringbring: The fixed airport fares are NOT a good way to compare taxi costs as they don't indicate realistic rates in many cities. But I think you see from your own chart that Europe cities are not cheap and at best they are on par with our most expensive city.
Taxi licence = tulips
Personally I don't care if my driver is a taxi driver, or Uber; what I want to know is when the driver will arrive, what it will cost be to get to the other end and to be treated with respect. If the taxi industry gives me that then I will be happy to take taxis. What I don't want is the meter "ticking over" whilst I'm in traffic or the driver giving me a scenic view of the city so they can bulk up the meter cost or some driver being a complete a-hole.
If Uber has broken the law then they will be fined, which will beef up the coffers of Government but do stuff all for the taxi industry - the horse has well and truly bolted. I do think the taxi guys do need compensation for paying massive amounts for taxi licences that are now virtualy worthless. This should be pro rata's against the money they made off the licences originally.
I've only used Uber's a couple of times and the drivers were great; friendly and the cars were in good order. Most taxi drivers I've used have been good; however, I've had a couple of real shockers and the taxi industry didn't seem in any hurry to deal with them.
I want my drivers to be treated well and paid well so they do the best job they can, giving me the best service they can
So give them a tip.
I want my drivers to be treated well and paid well so they do the best job they can, giving me the best service they can
so before Uber arrived, thats what taxi drivers were doing?
Shouldn't have to pay through the nose for decent service
@bringbring: But should the pax be paying a living wage to the driver, or are you happy to get a decent service from what ever provider knowing full well the driver is getting less than minimum wage each week from any rideshare service?
I have noticed the service from taxi drivers got markedly better the last few years for some reason. I've even had one pull over and offer me a ride while I was standing on the footpath. Too little too late.
Uber ticks over in traffic also.
I can see an argument for a partial refund of licences but to those who overpaid for theirs then bad luck. Not all investments pay off.
The only winners in this court case will be the lawyers. Can't imagine how long this one will drag on.
It's just a pity that it wasn't an Australian company or government that ended the golden run of taxis. Uber has created as many problems as it has solved
how good they had it and how arrogant they were, rude, smelly and just generally not nice as a group, i know there were exceptions to this in the taxis but it covers most of them and make no mistake about they were killing the pig before uber. neg away
Been a long time I've travelled in a taxi. I only remember the smell of lpg and every driver seem to be flooring the accelerator when we moved.
passengers should form a class action against taxi drivers for having to direct them the way to get home, cant say how much that annoys me.
I wanna sit back and be delivered, not to have direct an to illiterate, stinky driver.
wonder why you got negged
taxi drivers use ozbargain too, lol
Seems like there are quite a few of them here.
I always remember an exchange I had with a taxi driver about 15 years ago. I was walking home, right next to the main bus stop at UQ when a taxi drivers pulls up and asks me "Can you tell me how to get to the city from here?". This driver couldn't navigate from the second most visited location in Brisbane to the first most visited, when you can almost see one from the other.
Watching my Indian friends claim deodorant as a tax reducible expense really reinvigorates me to utilise taxi services more often
Ah yes, Lynx Korma for Men…Pass on my gratitude.
It's amusing when it comes to taxi drivers its always Indian friends, when it comes taxi license owners then it's always Italian friends whilst both our friends were making a killing with their roles in taxis we Aussie blokes were Happy to get ripped off until Uber decided to launch down under. Pretty good patience levels isn't it!?
Before uber and smartphones with maps I always had to be on the lookout for dodgy taxi drivers taking the longest route, now, I don't have that problem.
But there were some good drivers… Pity the bad one's spoiler it for them by creating a demand for better accountability in the profession.
Ah those days when you grabbed a taxi at the airport.
They always slipped in the "holiday?" question during the conversation
Err no, take this and that street, no toll pls thanks
End of conversation
In Melbourne taxis were terrible years ago. EFTPOS machine broken, insufficient change for notes, didn't know basic major streets or landmarks, occasionally you'd get a nice long trip via the longest slowest route possible. On a Friday night good luck flagging a taxi. If perchance they stopped but they didn't like your suburb they'd drive off.
Uber essentially eliminated ALL these issues in my eyes.
Yes. I don't like Uber as a company, and I think some thought needs to be put into how to make sure the drivers receive a fair wage, but the immediate improvement to the end-user experience is pretty obvious.
I could not agree more with this comment. Legislation was introduced to try and address the final point about the drive off, but it was never enforced effectively. Goes to show competition is often the best thing to incite change rather than legislation.
The old broken eftpos machine. Amazing how reliable the technology is now adays.
macrocephalic and ajr5k, agree with all your points here.
There should be better mechanisms to ensure drivers are paid fairly.
Competition was the factor that instigated change.
I personally believe the majority of upset tax drivers owned the taxi plates and treated the cars as "subcontracting" to cheap drivers. They're mainly upset their taxi plate "investments" or "nest eggs" are now worthless, and they no longer have a near passive form of income.
Industries change all the time. It's up to the taxi companies to adapt or die. Ultimately the end user will spend where they get the best value and service.
I agree, change with the times or get reckt. Survival of the fittest. uber did not steal taxi driver's livelihoods. Taxi companies just stopped upgrading and providing quality service.
Both services in Melbourne are night and day.
Took an Uber from the Airport to the CBD, was a nice, quiet, uneventful trip, new car and a driver that was courteous, and got me there with absolutely no complaints.
However the ride back to the airport I got a Taxi, the car was making a heap of noise from what I could only assume was the diff as the noise was coming from under the back seat, the driver was swerving through traffic braking hard and suddenly, and the price was much greater!
I can see the Taxi's point of view, but they had the chance to improve their level of service, but they didn't.
If you want our money then improve your service! I for one will never be taking a taxi again if I can avoid it.
Just wait until fully autonomous cars become common. I want my car to drive me somewhere and go back home and then after I've had (more than) a few drinks come get me and drive home!
This WILL happen within the next 10 years, Taxi drivers be warned.
Doubt fully autonomous cars will on Australian roads/streets. Our roads and markings are to far below standard required for autonomous cars
Just wait, remember just over 10 years ago we only just got the first smartphones, which were very basic, now look at how far they have come.
With greater processing capabilities and more refined neural inferencing engines, in 10 years time I'm sure that cars will eventually have the smarts to even work on our crappy roads.
Never say never.
Sorry i meant to write doubtful in next 10 years autonomous cars will be on our roads. It will take longer for governments to fix roads etc
Then how do meat drivers currently navigate them?
waaaaaah we had a completely disgusting service monopoly but now we have actualy competition, we will sue you! boohoo.
Taxi drivers all rort the system. I personally know taxi drivers who pocket atleast 80k a year but somehow show themselves as low income earners and pocket handouts from Centrelink for themselves and their partners. Few of them even openly admit and are not ashamed of it.
agreed. i have same experience. so unethical
Dob them in. Just be sure that it isn't legitimate deductions that drags them to below the low income threshold.
Agreed. Dob in a mate.
I am assuming that the authorities are aware but turning a blind eye. It’s happening in all the major taxi depots. My first impression was that it’s because the indian depot owners try to help their brothers but later found out that the italian/greek owners are in too. The Centrelink rort is too widespread. Muslim guys having multiple wives and many kids and claiming handouts for everyone is happening a lot too. Government just don’t seem to have the resources to care or they just let it slide
cant "dob in" an entire industry! unless royal commission.
So let me get this straight, the taxi plate owners are pissed because their investment isn't returning what they expected.
So I can sue the banks for my disappointment with bitcoin currently?
The taxi drivers are pissed because uber is taking away their income.
It's called competition. You can win this, be better and cost effective.
Personally, I think the taxi business desperately needed a kick in the butt. This is a prevent situation.
but they can't be bothered lifting their level of service from below par to average. instead they put effort into this….
How the price of a taxi plate got to $500,000 boggles my mind. Corruption at its finest right there. I for one am glad that the racket is broken and the general public arent being rorted anymore.
Artificial scarcity. It benefited those investing in plates, and probably benefited those who were lobbied ($$$) to ensure plate numbers were limited.
So kind of like how land isn't being released for residential properties?
Duck yeh
I don't like taxi/uber drivers who talk on their phones all day long
Can't blame them, that is the only way to avoid boredom.
Taxi drivers have been the dirtiest, smelliest and by far rudest of workers in terms of a group as a whole I've ever experienced.
They preferred a certain type of person, to enter their BO infested taxi that was warn down, run down, made strange noises, clearly abused a technical fault (9/10 would use a start/stop strategy to manipulate the distant trip metre to gain a bigger fair by speeding up and breaking suddenly, repeatedly).
I'm honestly glad I can get picked up by a nice car, that doesn't stink, have a bottle of water and some minties and chat about our life's as Uber is generally a secondary income and they have something else they do with their life's that excited them.
It beats sitting in a car with a tired some individual that is on the phone while I'm in the car speaking a language I don't understand and feels the need to clear their throat and pick their nose, as that is their office and all normal means of personal hygiene and respectable behaviour has gone out the window, literally.
I agree with most about the service quality, smell, poor driving, etc of taxis.
One thing I will add: I can’t recall a single time I’ve been in one that they don’t decide to take a phone call while driving.
Many of these comments ignore that all the new-fangled ride-sharing companies only provide such cheap prices because it's subsidised by investors, and - in the case of Uber at least - their ex-CEO was a piece of shit and the workplace environment was toxic, to say the least. Sure, the taxi industry and individual drivers are far from perfect, but don't kid yourself there are fewer problems with the 'new order'. If you think that taxis were a monopoly, wait and see what happens if one ride-sharing company becomes dominant in a particular market.
If you think that taxis were a monopoly, wait and see what happens if one ride-sharing company becomes dominant in a particular market.
After a couple of years of using Uber, I'm waitin', matey
This change is much wider than just Australia, and it's still early days. In the EU country I live in there is Uber (losing market share because they are 'too expensive'), Taxify (doing well) and a newer player Yandex Taxi (the cheapest by far, but has the dodgiest drivers and funded ). Uber had the losing hand in the market in Russia, and ended up with a merger with Yandex where they become the minority partner.
I won't ride with Uber because of their dreadful rep among software devs no matter how cheap they are, but I understand most people don't care about that kind of thing, plus Taxify is 'home grown' for my second / family citizenship so I'd always prefer them anyway.
I like the Russian dont be a douchebag youtube clips
HOPEFULLY NOT MATE, NOW THERE IS OLA THAT offer roughly the same rates like uber but with better/much promotion discount, better for us as consumer to chhose
I still remember being asked where was I going to and the taxi driver just drove off, also another time when I was in Melbourne and going from the airport to the race track for a test/training day with some new model vehicles the taxi driver did not know where he was going and i had to look it up on the map for him..
On the other hand, I was at wedding the other weekend and after the reception we booked a cab and it picked us up within 5 minutes, it did have some clunk noise happening but the taxi was clean, the driver polite and he also Cancelled a phone call, which was nice as the usually take them, he also ensured we were happy with the route he was going to take. $60 later we were home, but the price was as expected
Consumer market is always about who gives the best bang for the buck.
Would you pay $3 for a Uber pool ride to home or a $25 for a normal taxi? Simple economics ;)
i used to have a regular driver for work trips, who was actually polite, clean etc (the opposite of all the traits listed above) however as he was a hard working ambitious individual he has moved up in the world and no longer drivers taxi's anymore.
Which you found out when paying for your fuel at the local 7-Eleven
i only use bp 98
:D
I'll always remember when I was 18 years old, drunk, tired and waiting on the side of the road trying to get a cab home at 4:00 in the morning.
The cabbies would slow down, open their window slightly and ask "Where you going?".
When you told them, they would turn their nose up — too far, fare not substantial enough, too many people, too few people, too close to "change over" and would drive off to the next group of people.
Now, people can continue socialising with their friends until their car has arrived. No hanging around on street corners. No denial of service because the fare metrics aren't to the driver's liking. The car is clean, the drivers are courteous and because your destination and directions are already with the driver, you can relax in the back seat.
Vastly superior service for a much better fare.
The taxi industry got too fat and can't match Uber in level of service or price.
Welcome to Capitalism — adapt or die.
Once I was in the taxi which had broken eft machine, the driver only told me when I was about to pay. I proposed to drive to the nearest ATM and pay cash. The driver kept the meter on all the way to the atm and back to my house. I didn't argue that much since it was 2am, the driver knew where I live and he was from a specific "dangerous" ethnicity.
he was from a specific "dangerous" ethnicity.
gasp A Mongolian cab driver!
I wouldn't let one within 100 paces downwind of my ger.
Mongolian doesn't really reside in Parramatta
Just SMS his driver license number to a friend, get out of the cab and say you'll be happy to pay him another time.
No way I would be charged for a trip to the ATM.
Stand up for yourself in future.
I hate to say it, but the taxi drivers might win this, Maurice Blackburn are the gurus of class actions and wouldn't be pushing this if they didn't know they had a high chance of winning. It's all hinges around Uber operating while illegal.
Saying that, this is just more proof that the taxi industry is a monopoly/cartel and refuses to change. If they win, it sure as hell won't get me back in a taxi.
Whilst Maurice Blackburn are great at what they do;
The key difference here is that there is an English litigation fund funding the plaintiff's case; what that means is that the litigation fund will meet the costs (and thus not the taxi drivers) and they will bear the risk (as well as the success from the litigation).
If the case is successful, I wonder how much in dollar terms or % they have accepted to fund this case. I would expect the fee structure to be very similar terms to US based contingency fees, somewhere around 35-40% mark. So if it settles for, say, $300 million. They take, say $105-120 million of that. If they lose, they forgo the $20 million (it has been said they are prepared to fund) and the defendants costs.
Thus the legal cost to the drivers are nil; the chances of getting something in return is satisfactory - so win-win for the drivers, law firm and litigation funder IF the case is successful.
I agree with everyones sentiments. The Taxi industry ripped us off for too long with woeful service and extortionate prices.
Whilst being vastly superior, Uber is no doubt participating in shoddy practices themselves. Underpaying drivers ($11-14 per hour post expenses with their 'individual contractor' hiring structure) and I'm sure also allowing 'student visa' drivers work more than 20 hours per week.
Hopefully we'll end up with something in between.
This will be a very interesting case indeed;
That said, 100% Uber fan here all the way for me. I will not catch any taxi where Uber is available, here locally and around the world.
UBER DID NOT KILL THE TAXI BUSINESS.
LIMITED ACCESS AND FARE CONTROL DID.
Coal industry sues the renewable sector
This would be an amazing day if it happened. Better than Trump getting elected.
We’re pursuing Uber because they came into the Victorian market knowing full well it was the requirement under law to have a taxi or hire car license to operate
Basically this. Nothing against Uber, but if taxi drivers had to pay for this license, they should too.