Yesterday my mum boarded a train and she slipped as soon as she got on because the floor was pretty wet.
She fell, fractured her femur bone pretty badly, laid on the floor until the next station when 2 men had to carry her out as she couldnt move. They're gonna have to operate on her. She's in agony now and they'll have to put permanent pins inside her leg as part of the surgery.
Is this something I can take Sydney Trains to court for compensation? Appreciate any advice I can get.
Contact your mp. They may assist with forwarding your claim to transport nsw.
You do realise that in Australia, you can only seek damages directly provable? You could only receive money for medical bills and maybe lost income. Medicare would cover any surgeries anyway and disability lost income.
And a lump sump payment if you reach a certain threshold.
compensation
compensation is normally when there is neglect by one party that this issue could have been avoided. Was this the case?
my mum boarded a train and she slipped as soon as she got on because the floor was pretty wet.
Looks at the weather for yesterday, Hmmmm so it was raining.
So guessing the floor was wet from people walking in and out of the train in the rain?
While its pretty bad about your mum. Did she not notice the floor was wet? Did she have good footwear on that didn't have slippery soles? The ground would have been wet outside too. So her shoes would have been wet entering the train too.
I'm not really sure what you want the train operator to do when it rains, stop all trains and dry the floor between each stop?
While your mum is in agony now, its a short term thing and they'll have her fixed up soon enough. Sometimes these things happen. People fall over and break things every day, at the fault of no one at all. Sometimes its just bad luck. I do hope she recovers soon enough.
All this exactly.
Only addition from me is that the femur is the strongest bone. She's clearly got weak bones and likely to break something.
I think you may have a chance - I would contact a lawyer ASAP.
How old is she and what degree of mobility would you say she had prior to the accident?
She's 66 and had good mobility prior to the accident
How good is her vision and how obvious do you think the fact it was raining was to her?
@bargainhunter87: My next question would've been:
How obvious would it have been to OP's mother that wet surfaces are slippery?
But that would've just been a lead into another question, and you beat me to that one.
@bargainhunter87: bargainhunter87 getting rekt. Let it go son and stop thinking you can sue for your own stupidity
I'd say there's definitely a claim there.
You can go through the claims process yourself but if you're not confident I'd recommend contacting a personal injury lawyer. Just be aware that being lawyers, they'll probably screw you. Most of the "No Win, No Fee" solicitors simply take 50% of the settlement amount.
From what you describe, there would definitely be a claim for medical costs and pain & suffering. There may also be a claim for past and future economic loss (is your Mum working?).
I work for a certain department that deals with assessing compensation claims to determine eligibility for other payments/services. I see hundreds of settlements and documents every week.
Some of the other comments on here, while made with good intentions, are off the mark.
Best advice: Contact a solicitor, they've seen it all before.
From what you describe, there would definitely be a claim for medical costs and pain & suffering.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sorry…. I've obviously missed the joke….
You said "definitely". No - this is nowhere near a "definitely has a claim" territory. Again - try closer to "suing council for slipping on wet grass in the rain" territory.
@HighAndDry: "Definitely" as in your solicitors will definitely claim for medical costs and pain & suffering…..
Not definitely be awarded. I guess I should have been clearer.
@Cheapo Moose: Ah. Yeah, to "have a claim" means getting that claim. OP's mum can definitely make a claim. Far from being able to get it. But Sydney Trains being what they are and afraid of bad PR (rightly so, probably) while having endless taxpayers money to burn through, they'll probably throw OP's mum a chunk of change to make it go away.
@HighAndDry: Yeah that's generally what we see all the time.
Most documents include crap like "Without admission of guilt….".
The amount of supermarket slip'n'fall settlements we see for over 65s is staggering.
Woolworths/Coles generally throw them about $20k without any fight.
Then of course we see the compo junkies. I've never fallen over in a supermarket but some people seem to do it every couple of years….
@Cheapo Moose: There's no reason why someone can't be over 65 and also a compo junkie… the two groups aren't really mutually exclusive. And the PR factor for the elderly means they'd actually be better at it.
@HighAndDry: Compo junkies come in all ages.
The oldies definitely get their settlements finalised sooner though.
Not sure why I'm getting downvotes.
I'm not saying I agree with the compensation laws and I certainly think people should be more responsible for themselves.
I was just trying to give Op an idea what to expect if/when they pursue legal action.
I won't be helpful next time.
B.I.O.Y.A.
You get 2 down votes, spit the dummy and tell everyone to BIOYA? Okay…
Yeah you're right, must have had a sht day.
High five everyone… Lol
i'd recommend sydney trains sue your mum for potential damage on the floor of their train due to her negligence
They would have public liability insurance, see a compensation lawyer asap, these things take time.
Insurance money doesn't materialise out of thin air. OP effectively wants to be paid for having bad luck (or, even less generously, for their mother not being careful). It's ridiculous.
She will get a payout, she was seriously injured on public property, she has a case, and deserves for her medical bills to be covered by their insurance not hers.
She slipped on a rainy day, of course trains have water tracked through them when it's raining, that's just common sense.
Could she sue them if she slipped on the platform? Could she sue the council if she slipped on the footpath or grass outside the station? This is all completely absurd.
She will not get a payout, she does not have a case and does not "deserve" to have her medical bills covered by the train operator.
she was seriously injured on public property, she has a case
She was seriously injured due to her own carelessness. Otherwise I'm going to go outside right now and start throwing myself at the sidewalk. I think I can average at least 2.5 settlements ($20,000 each?) per hour, which certainly beats my pay.
@HighAndDry: Reminds me of the insurance fraud missions in Saints Row 3. Just hurl yourself into buildings and incoming traffic
How many passengers a train can carry? Sometimes I see almost 175+ travellers in one carriage.
Also why trains are not liable when they are running late on many occasions that too after numerous weekend track work?
Also why trains are not liable when they are running late
https://transportnsw.info/document/2114/opal_terms_of_use.pd…
LIABILITY
119.
Delays
Yesterday my mum boarded a train and she slipped as soon as she got on because the floor was pretty wet.
Yesterday, when it was raining? I hate Sydney Trains with a passion, but this is ridiculous. What do you expect them to do, mop the floors at each station?
What do you expect them to do, mop the floors at each station?
Yes, or apply an anti-slip coating, they are at fault.
…. You realise I'm talking about the floors inside the train, because that's where OP's mum slipped right? Even if not - you realise it was raining yesterday, and platforms are outdoors, right?
I'm assuming you can read and have a minimum level of intelligence. Let me know if I need to adjust those expectations.
They should pour some sand into bondcrete and paint those floors, its not that hard to do.
@[Deactivated]: You stealth edited, classy. "anti-slip" coatings aren't magic. But ok, adjusting expectations.
Edit:
They should pour some sand into bondcrete and paint those floors
AGAIN: This is the floor INSIDE the train. What are you even talking about?
@HighAndDry: If wet slippery floor cause injuries on their service, they need to take responsibility and minimise damage. Another lawyer is going to argue the opposite, I am trying to get OP in the right frame of mind for the case.
@[Deactivated]: The "right frame of mind" is not a "Oh, I'm 100% going to win!" one, because that leads paying thousands in futile legal fees, and dismissing settlement offers that are reasonable, going to trial, losing, and having to pay hundreds of thousands in legal costs. Christ, will you at least not give terrible advice if you don't know anything?
@HighAndDry: There is also this product that used to be on floors to help grip. https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7621500/
@[Deactivated]: You realise that that's tape. And tape comes off after a time, right? Which will cause a tripping hazard?
Also that floors which are too grippy are inherently tripping hazards? You're just going to have OP here again next month wanting to sue Sydney Trains because their mom tripped on a loose piece of tape - and they'd have a better claim in that situation too.
If wet slippery floor cause injuries on their service
Wet slippery floors aren't causing injuries. Thousands of people were able to use trains yesterday without slipping and falling. PEOPLE NOT PAYING ATTENTION AND NOT BEING CAREFUL caused injuries. They can go sue themselves.
@HighAndDry: Bondcrete is a glue, sand is sand. You add sand to bondcrete and paint a surface with it, you get a clear gritty coating that helps grip. Oh yeah I would settle as soon as they offered, time in court is expensive.
@[Deactivated]: Hahahahaha you want Sydney Trains to do that to the inside of train carriages. Oh god. And you actually sound serious. I'm done here, I don't think I can adjust my expectations quite that low.
I'm actually willing to put some money down that the existing surface inside trains already has a higher friction co-efficient than your painted-sand-on-bondcrete ghetto fix.
@HighAndDry: No offence HighAndDry… but you're being a bit of a douche and unnecessarily combative.
stormii is correct. Op's lawyers will argue that Sydney Trains haven't adequately provided a safe environment for their customers and will argue they are at fault.
I see similar arguments in documents all the time.
Whether or not we agree with it is irrelevant. It's the way things are these days.
No offence HighAndDry… but you're being a bit of a douche and unnecessarily combative.
No offence taken - don't feel the need to sugarcoat words.
stormii is correct.
They may be a lot of things but "correct" in the context of this exchange is the last thing they are. OP's mum's lawyers MIGHT ARGUE THAT, but OP's mum would be paying for it, and it says nothing about the strength of the case (which is low, if you hadn't caught on).
I see similar arguments in documents all the time.
Sure, do you also see how often those win, and what factors lead to winning? Because they don't exist here.
@HighAndDry: Let's not quibble over semantics.
All I'm saying is that Op's Mum's lawyers will argue that Sydney Trains didn't provide a safe environment and are liable for the injuries sustained.
Defendant lawyers will probably settle without admission of guilt to avoid lengthy and costly legal costs.
Are Sydney Trains really at fault in our eyes? Maybe, maybe not.
All I'm saying is that Op's Mum's lawyers will argue that Sydney Trains didn't provide a safe environment and are liable for the injuries sustained.
Yeah and I'm saying, given the circumstances, it's a stupid argument. Stormii actually thinks it's a good one - ergo they're wrong.
Yes, or apply an anti-slip coating
Perhaps Sydney Trains could lay down some beer soaked sticky carpet, in the train carriages. This could be supplied for little cost, from the numerous venues that have closed down due to the lock out laws. It would add both safety and a touch of nostalgia for awkward baby boomers.
Also why aren't displays projected onto the train carriages, to remind commuters that rain can be wet and slippery?
If Government mandated displays are needed on the Opera House, to remind punters of a horse race, then a safety message about Mother Nature seems long overdue.
Haha, yeah try it
How is that the train operator's fault?
I'm guessing the moisture came from commuter's shoes.
Should only resort to seeking compensation if there is some gross negligence involved.
Track down the commuters who tracked in water from a rainy day onto the train, they're obviously the ones responsible.
I am happy for OP to try to get compensation as long as, when it gets thrown out of court, OP's mum has to compensate Sydney trains for their time and that of their legal team.
honestly wtf, your mum is negligent for slipping. they should sue her for delaying the train.
This litigious society we've adopted from America is pure degeneracy. Take some responsibility for your own welfare.
I do agree with you. Seems too much American 'TeeVee' has brainwashed people into thinking you can sue for anything these days.
taking responsibility and taking advantage of a situation are two different things
In fact, you could say they're two diametrically opposite things. Taking responsibility would be paying your own medical costs and learning to be more careful next time. Taking advantage would be to go and sue the party however minimally involved or liable but with the deepest pockets hoping they'll pay you money to go away.
I don't think its that black and white. One could trip and fall and take responsibility by thinking "damn what an idiot I am - I deserve my injuries and I will be more careful next time". At the same time they could be thinking "hey, this is a situation where I can potentially take advantage of and benefit financially from a large, inefficiently operated organisation and with almost zero impact over any one individual"
and with almost zero impact over any one individual
And this is the problem. A dollar is still a dollar. It's not as if a dollar from a big company buys less of a cheeseburger than a dollar from an actual individual. This is the same mentality that makes people think defrauding a company is somehow ethically different from defrauding a person. No - the action and the benefit you gain is the same. It's just psychological gymnastics to convince yourself to feel less bad for doing the same bad thing.
That's what I thought too. As much as I feel bad for OP's mum, but on rainy days, it is possible to happen. We can't make sure every surface is dry as even OP's mum's shoes were definitely wet too. I just hope Australians won't turn into those crazy cases in America.
needs poll.
- Yes
- No
ALWAYS trust the legal advice from people with made up alias on Ozbargain forums
Nek minnit 50$ train tickets.
Is this something I can take Sydney Trains to court for compensation?
OP - what do you mean "compensation"? what sort of result are you expecting? $1,000,000 pay out or coverage of medical expenses?
Step 1: determine how much money you want to be compensated for
Step 2: contact your preferred lawyer
Simple as that.
Public opinions are great but wont add much weight in a real court hearing.
BUT above all, remember that the whole world has come to have no or very little common sense..
and print out this forum post to use as evidence in court. the whole page
I don't think your mum's case has a leg to stand on.
But the bills will cost an arm and a leg
If they were negligent then yes.
How could they possibly be negligent? Trains and platforms have non slip surfaces. It's OP's mums responsibility to make sure she is wearing appropriate footware and boards the train safely.
The only way to possibly claim compensation is to prove that they were negligent. A lawyer only could advise on that.
im pretty sure it raining is out of Sydney trains' control
@Savas: I’m not arguing for or against. Sometimes lack of a yellow slippery when wet pyramid near an uneven or worn out area can be negligent
Ouch, sympathy for the pain your Mother has/is to endure. With regards to the accident. Its unfortunate and you might have to speak legal advice about this.
But I recall hearing repeating / canned / automated messages (in the CBD any way) to the likes of
"Be careful when alighting or disembarking the train as the ground may be wet. Also be mindful of the gap between the train and the platform"
something along the lines of that. Also there are a few others I recall about "Not running" "Keeping the doors open" "Keep a firm hold as the train approaches a station" etc.
OP, I can't provide exact guidance as it's a little outside my area of expertise, but in many instances public infrastructure must meet certain Australian Standards for slip resistance of flooring/surfaces.
Testing is normally undertaken on a regular basis - it's called slip resistance testing. Appropriate standard for flooring from memory was AS4663 - may be applicable to this instance?
If you wanted to do some legwork yourself before/instead of engaging a solicitor, you could use a GIPA request to request information on the actual train/carriages that were in use on your mums trip, and then GIPA the maintenance records in relation to floor maintenance, and slip resistance training. If they're not up to standard, or have not been done ever, you may be able to use that as the basis of a negligance claim.
Please follow one of the following means of requesting access to the CCTV:
· The NSW Police can request a copy of the footage via IASK. If they are unable to do so, please advise them to direct their enquiries to this office
· If the matter is for court, please submit a Subpoena to the relevant agency and advise the legal counsel of the above reference number.
· Should neither of the above apply, or you wish to apply to view the CCTV footage, you may apply for access to the information through a formal application under the Government Information (Public Access) Act 2009 (GIPA Act).
Please note: Applications under the GIPA Act are considered on a case-by-case basis and in some circumstances (where there is an overriding public interest against doing so) access is not provided to the applicant.
If she is at the hospital, seek the support from a social worker. They will be able to guide you to the right people
Should see a solicitor. Too many variables that can only be answered by Sydney Trains.
Things to consider.. What is their wet weather policy? How often do they wipe spills/check for spills? Did they follow wet weather protocols that are in place to avoid things like this? Was your mum doing anything silly like running into the train to make it? There are plenty more variables to consider..
You're not getting an answer from OzBargain.
What is their wet weather policy? How often do they wipe spills/check for spills? Did they follow wet weather protocols that are in place to avoid things like this?
I think these "wet weather policies" needs to be made by a consultant. The consultant needs to conduct a study on how watery is rain and subsequent study to determine how wet is water. A public response survey will then be required to see just how much water is considered too much water.
By correlating the public survey response to the wetness of water, we can start understanding why some people misjudge the friction generated by the average shoe. It goes without saying, we also need to know how much friction does the average shoe produces.
I think I'm going to go for a PhD here so I'm not going to disclose my upcoming dissertation.
Hah might need to step back and figure out if water is actually wet before considering its degree of wetness.. https://youtu.be/ugyqOSUlR2A
Literally hundreds of thousands of people use Sydney trains, during all sorts of weather. Do you think it's their fault for a slippage?
Out comes all the armchair lawyers, adding their 4 cents worth and talking crap like they know the answer. How much would you like? 10 million? OK!
Their insurer will fight tooth and bone. Simple things like did you use the assisted hand rails whilst boarding, how adequate were her shoes on the day to prevent slipping in the rain, was she rushing into the carriage…
I've been through the process with Pizza Hut, sued them for dental damage to my teeth after biting into a pizza that had a metal bolt in it.
Lawyers sent me to the top dentist in Sydney CBD ($3,000 for 15min) and a psychologist, another $4,000.
If you have the energy to fight, you may be able to get something… Perhaps medical bills but their insurers are paid big money to investigate such incidents to avoid liability.
My Facebook and LinkedIn accounts were both viewed by the insurer, they were looking for photo of my teeth dating before the incident.
Be prepared…
I've been through the process with Pizza Hut, sued them for dental damage to my teeth after biting into a pizza that had a metal bolt in it.
Thats not exactly the same as OPs case. The metal in the pizza is not expected, rain water from passengers shoes on the floor can be expected.
Obviously it's no where near similar. What I am speaking about is my experience in the process and the overall extent of the claim.
Must have been a thin bolt if you didn't see it. Was it in the dough or the topping?
Did you order the Usain Bolt pizza and didn't annunciate the Usain?
But was the pizza any good? Apart from the bolt
There's 2 components to slipping here - the floor and the shoe.
Why is the floor assumed to be the cause when no one else slipped on the same section? Who else had the same shoes on that floor?
If no one else slipped, logically the problem is with something she provided, or maybe her doctor was negligent in failing to diagnose lower-than-average balance or something?
If it turns out that Sydney Trains were not at fault, can they sue her for causing a delay to the service (assuming it results in a penalty for late running)?
Sue em
I got sunburnt really badly standing in the sun last summer whilst waiting for a train, I am now going to sue Sydney Trains because they failed in their duty of care to warn me to slip/slop/slap whilst in the sun and they failed to provide adequate shade.
Gerard Malouf & Partners, expect a call from me first thing tomorrow morning…
I should not be expected to take responsibility for my own actions and Sydney Trains should be informing me of every single possible risk, including the risk i may be abducted by aliens on the platform..
Sorry to hear about the trauma you have gone though. I would gladly offer my hard earned taxed dollar to be used by Sydney train to pay for your skin cancer treatment and anti alien ray gun. Assuming that the lawyer doesn't take half of it, if so, then we all lose (me, you, Sydney train,) , except for the lawyer.
Sorry to hear this mate. Accident like this sucks I get it.
I suggest you to google and call up one of those no win no fee solicitor hot lines that specialise in personal injury.
I had an accident and called them before and they explained a few things why they think it’s a no win.
Give it a go, good luck.
I'm glad we have Medicare so OP's mum doesn't HAVE to sue to have medical treatment.
Sue them OP.
AND keep us updated please
Also I wanna know how do you think they could have prevented this?
@HighAndDry: I do see your point. Sadly, there are always going to be dishonest folk.