Is Finding a Job Working as a Professional(degree holders) as Hard as They Say It Is? Especially for People who are Overseas?

Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 21:54
Last edited 08/07/2018 - 22:51

Hey Guys,
Need to ask some advice for my partner whom I want to bring here to Australia. She has quite a plethora of work experience under her belt as an Auditor in Singapore, and is currently working in one of the big4 companies.

I don't think her English is an issue, but I think that her lack of a CPA certificate might be some sort of barrier for her. She is a chartered account with ACCA certification here in Singapore though, but I don't think it means much to the Australian companies here.

She does not want me to sponsor her the visa for coming over, due to concerns that she would not be able to find a job here after she moves in with me. Due to this reason alone, we've been trying to find a job here through the 'normal' avenues like applying for jobs through jobstreet and such.

Together with my help, we hit our 100th cv submitted today, and its completely heartbreaking to say that she has not got a single potential employer who showed interest over the last 2 months.

Meanwhile other people have used the not-so conventional method of using local businesses to sponsor these work visas that almost end up as PR statuses towards the end of the day. It makes me quite upset that hardworking people like her do not have an opportunity to contribute to Australia, and uneducated/connected family friends can pretty much bring over the horde.

I've heard comments from my parents and several friends that jobs for people like her are scarce and are pretty much 1 in a million opportunities. I heard that the same industry is also tough on our own local students fresh out of Uni.

I would like to know whether the above-mentioned statements are true in your industries? And if there are any tips for helping her get a work visa here.

Education & Work

Comments

  • Godric on 08/07/2018 - 21:59
    +3

    Even harder

  • PissLUR on 08/07/2018 - 22:04
    +35

    0% chance.

    She needs to have the right to work in Australia just to have a chance.

    Go with the partner visa option and then look for the job.

    • Randxyz123 on 08/07/2018 - 22:12
      +8

      She needs to have the right to work in Australia just to have a chance.

      THIS. If you are applying through traditional methods and saying she's in Singapore and doesn't have working rights then her CV will, unfortunately, be going in the bin.

      Can she get a working holiday visa? Apply for a few jobs at accountancy firms and then potentially get sponsored?

      • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 22:30
        +1

        Thanks for the suggestion, we'll look into it right away

        • blonky on 10/07/2018 - 16:56

          Best avenue is probably a Big4 firm once she has her working holiday visa - preferably the same one she worked at in Singapore.
          The Big4 in Australia are known to take on employees on visas where as you'll find most companies will only take someone with PR or citizenship

          ACCA should be fine here - should be pretty similar to CA and is big in the UK

    • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 22:17
      +1

      We're fearful that once she gets the visa and comes over, it would be equally tough for her to get a job and just be a burden on finances as we watch it trickle away.

      • Randxyz123 on 09/07/2018 - 00:05
        +1

        At least with the working holiday visa it isn’t $7,000 for a partnership visa. It might simply mean she can start putting savings together and making connections in Australia.

        Working holiday will give her instant work rights.

        • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 00:21

          I just checked the working holiday one, and unfortunately singapore is not one of the countries eligible… Thanks for the suggestion though

      • PissLUR on 09/07/2018 - 12:43
        +1

        imo that is an unnecessary fear. she could do some part-time job while looking for the accounting job.

        • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 13:02

          we're a fairly young couple, so we don't have the means to be able to support the kinds of expenses related to her relocating here, and it'll be really tough on her mentally while she looks for a job. It could take months or maybe even a year.

        • PissLUR on 09/07/2018 - 16:50
          +2

          @Ghosteye:

          it will be even tougher when you are no longer a young couple. yup agree. it may takes more than a year. 1-5 years is common.

        • Love a bargain on 10/07/2018 - 12:27
          +1

          @Ghosteye:

          People can survive stacking shelves in woolies or working part-time at restaurants. It's not good money but it pays the bill and keeps you occupied while she looks for a full time accounting job.

          If you want a live together as a couple, then something is gonna give. You'll either have to move back to Singapore or she'll have to move.

      • ogisydneysider on 10/07/2018 - 11:24
        +5

        Big 4 accounting firm has secondment programs. Ask her HR Manager if this is something possible for her. A friend of mine took the secondment and brought along her husband & child, the company even pays for the required visa for the whole family. Now she's considering applying for PR because the Australian office don't mind her working permanently for them.

        In your case, she can apply a spouse visa while lobbying the Australian office to keep employing her after her secondment term ends.

        • stumo on 10/07/2018 - 19:12

          Yep try and do it through her current employer. Big firms in Singapore are already fully set up for transferring staff from/to their offices in their staff's home countries. It happens all the time.

          If she makes it clear that she has an Australian partner, therefore has the right to live and work in Au (via a partner visa), then I don't see why they wouldn't transfer her to their offices here.

      • raging on 10/07/2018 - 21:11

        Short term pain for a long term gain.

        Went through the same thing through a partner Visa, it was taxing on both of us when she had to give up her corporate career overseas but after 6 years and 2 kids you'll be wondering why you were even stressing about it.

        If both of you don't have the grit to get past something so small I'd worry about your ability to deal with other things such a kids and the impending change to the future workforce.

        • Ghosteye on 10/07/2018 - 21:18

          Thing is that I'm still studying Uni, and its going to be this way for the next few years, so it's not going to be easy at all with me studying and having no time to work while she stacks shelves.
          She would have to be the main breadwinner ( at the local woolies) with me working part-time to make things work.

        • AlanHB on 11/07/2018 - 07:30

          @Ghosteye: Lots of people both work casual/part time and study at the same time.

          In fact, those who work in their prospective field during University are the ones more likely to get the job they want upon graduation.

          Why can't you work again?

  • cfritz on 08/07/2018 - 22:04
    +2

    based on what you mentioned, the visa will be the first and hardest barrier. if she is an accountant, i don’t see why she will be denied a PR visa right off the bat which she can apply. if you are a PR/citizen,you can apply for partner visa too.

  • holdenmg on 08/07/2018 - 22:13
    +1

    Have a read:
    ACCA recognition with CPA Australia …how I did this!
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-my-acca-membership-gave-m…

    • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 22:25

      Apparently there is a minimum wait of 5 years, which means 3 more years of waiting for us haha

  • dcep on 08/07/2018 - 22:21
    +1

    does big4 has global employee exchange program ?

    • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 22:24
      +1

      They do, and those are extremely competitive as basically the whole department clamors over it. Submitted the application several times but the offer always slipped out of her hands into someone else's.

      • mskeggs on 08/07/2018 - 22:37
        +6

        Nevertheless, if she does not have local working visa rights, this will be her best bet.
        My suggestion is to ask her if she would consider applying for a partner visa sponsored via you, but seeking a transfer from her employer. She might find many more roles open up if she supplies her own paperwork allowing her to work here.

        • try2bhelpful on 08/07/2018 - 22:51

          this. if she is handling her own relocation costs she might have a better shot.

        • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 22:58

          hmmm, you have a point. I will bring this up with her later tonight to see if it's a more comfortable arrangement for her. I already offered to pay for the visa, but she wants to shoulder all the costs.

          7k aint cheap when you want to bring someone over, but I understand it's to bring those who genuinely want to be here. Combining the costs of coming over with her headstrong personality isn't going to end well for me. hahaha

        • [Deactivated] on 08/07/2018 - 23:43

          @Ghosteye:

          Are you an Australian citizen?

          $7k seems high, which visa you looking at?

        • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 23:58

          @Drew22: Yeah, Aussie citizen here.
          https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa/visa-1
          You can head over here to get an estimation. The visa that we are looking at is the 820/801, where you get an approval for the 801 first (after proving that you are either married or have been together for more than 3 years), you also get an application for the 820.

          No kids no nothing.

        • mskeggs on 09/07/2018 - 00:43
          +5

          @Ghosteye:
          Not wanting to burst any bubbles, but I would never move countries unless I had a right to live and work there personally.
          Your beloved may also sensibly wish to find themselves not beholden to you if things ever went pear shaped. So maybe concentrate on finding avenues that give your partner full options to make their own choices?

        • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 01:00

          @mskeggs: Exactly, and that is why I fully support her decision to do so as well. In fact, I think it would be better if she found her way here.
          Also, it might be ultimately less damaging to her purse at the same time giving her a sense of accomplishment.

          It's just that these avenues are few and far between… sigh.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/07/2018 - 01:38
          +1

          @Ghosteye:

          How did you two find yourself in this position?

          Married but living so far apart?

        • onevstheworld on 09/07/2018 - 10:51
          +2

          @Drew22:
          Don't want to make any assumptions of OP, but in some Asian cultures, it's not unheard of for husband and wife (even if they have kids) to be apart because of work/education opportunities. More common in previous generations but I know of several acquaintances who do the same now.

        • airzone on 09/07/2018 - 22:52

          @mskeggs: It's for a few years until she get's PR. Having children or being subject to domestic abuse will shortcut that.

        • Ghosteye on 10/07/2018 - 01:55

          @Drew22: Just like how @onevstheworld said. Without disclosing too much, I'd just say that I decided to pursue further studies here in Australia, and it was not financially realistic to drag her along for my ambitions.

        • HighAndDry on 10/07/2018 - 11:12

          @airzone:

          or being subject to domestic abuse will shortcut that.

          I understand why this is a thing, but it's honestly one of the worst thought-out and worst practically implemented policies ever, basically leading to automatic accusations of domestic abuse in any break up where one's depending on the other for visas.

        • bargainfinder on 10/07/2018 - 11:20
          +3

          @Ghosteye:
          Just my 2 cents.
          If your goal is to bring her over in Australia to united with you and you wish to do so by applying the partner visa. Then it is best to apply for a tourist visa for her to come and visit you. Then when she got the visa, check if it has "no further stay" condition. If it does not, she can then come here on the tourist visa and then apply for her Partner visa(820/801). Doing so will allow her to have a Bridging visa granted once she lodge her Partner visa. And that will gives her work rights/legally stay in AU until her Partner visa is processed.( which could be at least 12 months)

          If you apply for 820/801 from offshore, she can wait upto 2 years before they even touch her application. And she need to wait in Singapo, not in AU.
          Goodluck

        • Love a bargain on 10/07/2018 - 13:09

          @bargainfinder:

          Sounds like a good plan although I wonder how likely it would be that she'll be granted a tourist visa if the immigration officer finds out that she's quitted her job and is coming in to visit her partner. (Singaporean citizens don't need a visa to come to Australia so it would be a red flag if she applies for a tourist visa in advance.)

        • Save 50 Cent on 10/07/2018 - 14:43

          @bargainfinder: im pretty sure you’re wrong. Bridging visas have the same conditions of the last held visa. Applying for any visa while on tourist visa means no work or long term study rights while on briding visa.
          OP double check that if you’re considering this plan.

        • HighAndDry on 10/07/2018 - 15:18

          @samBee: They seem to be right.

          https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/supporting/Pages/820/br…

          BVAs and BVBs that are granted to applicants for this visa allow you to:
          - work in Australia
          - study in Australia (no government support)
          - enrol in Medicare, Australia’s health care scheme.

      • sahh on 09/07/2018 - 08:22
        +2

        Has she tried looking at other big4 accounting firms? They’re always looking for people and I guess another avenue compared to just applying internally

        • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 10:36

          She's up for a promotion soon so I will try to urge her to go right after she gets it. Hopefully there will be more opportunities elsewhere

        • stirlo on 09/07/2018 - 12:51

          @Ghosteye: + 1 to the above comment, A friend of mine moved big 4 firms and got a transfer to Australia with it

        • Excelsior on 10/07/2018 - 21:38

          Current B4 employee here. There are a number of people who are being sponsored by the firm, although it's a fixed term arrangement around 2 years.

          Pretty much all established companies require you to be a resident/citizen (or at the very least have working rights), but all this for good reason.

      • LightningMcQueen on 09/07/2018 - 16:11

        I usually suggest my friends to get into some company overseas who got aus clients , and come to australia with that job and then after 2 or 3 years apply for PR and join as a staff in the company they are working.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/07/2018 - 22:48
    +14

    You should change the title to "… Especially for people who are overseas".

    Your partner isn't even in the country. That makes the difficulty a whole different level of hell yeah.

    There are local graduates looking for jobs. There are migrants who have working rights looking for jobs. It makes no sense for a company to consider someone who has to literally cross an ocean to attend an interview, and the company has to fill in paperwork and fork out for sponsorships cost.

    • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 22:54

      noted and changed accordingly.

      yeah…. this comment basically sums up what we feel right now, hence I thought ozb might be a good place to ask for advice

  • onevstheworld on 08/07/2018 - 23:06

    If you sponsor her, will the visa allow her to work? If it does, it may be to her advantage since the employer doesn't need to deal with the visa process. As others have said, why would they when they've got a local skill pool to choose from? There have also been recent changes that have made it harder for employers to sponsor overseas recruits.

    https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/hindi/en/article/2018/01…

    • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 23:16

      I believe it does allow her to work. She's more on the side of 'if there is an offering we'll pounce on it' Than the 'throw everything down and take a bet' side I guess.
      Just worried that in today's competitive market she won't find anything here, or even worse, have to study for more certification when she could've done that when she still had a job in singapore

      • onevstheworld on 08/07/2018 - 23:24

        Those changes I linked are very recent… so employers may still be "testing the waters", i.e. avoiding hiring too many from overseas until they get a better grip on the new rules and regulations.

        It may also be worthwhile speaking to a recruiter/headhunter… they may be able to give you a better idea of the competition as well as the desirable skills. I can't recommend any in particular… I'm only aware they exist because people I know have been approached by them (likely via Linkedin).

        Good luck :)

        • Ghosteye on 08/07/2018 - 23:36

          Thanks for the link, doesn't look that great for anyone trying to get in unfortunately. Thanks for the advise, will try to see what we can do off linkedin, and see where we end up from there as well.

      • theoaus on 09/07/2018 - 01:22

        What you can do on the Partner visa (subclass 820)
        The temporary Partner visa (subclass 820) lets you:
        -stay in Australia until a decision is made on your permanent Partner visa (subclass 801)
        -work in Australia
        -study in Australia (no government support)
        -travel outside Australia as many times as you want
        -access up to 510 hours of free English language tuition provided by the Adult Migrant English Program
        -enrol in Medicare, Australia’s national health scheme.
        https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/801-?modal=/visas…

  • Aerith-Waifu on 09/07/2018 - 02:40
    +12

    Do this first:

    Stop sending out her resume until she has the work right. Because Australia are a bunch of data catchers. Once her info is in the system. She will be overlook again by the same company when she applies for the same role and gotten her work right.

    • GourmetFoodie on 09/07/2018 - 05:59

      This

    • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 10:35

      Oh, didn't know that at all. Yup we'll stop sending them out right now

      • Aerith-Waifu on 09/07/2018 - 21:21

        Yes, dont send anymore. Wait for the working visa to arrive then go full steam ahead.

        Not to be blunt but even if she has the working visa her chances of getting in is very very slim, she has a better chance of finding a job as a waitress than an accountant.

        Just too much graduate around. Many with a lot more experiences too.

  • Bluberry on 09/07/2018 - 03:22

    Our company often advertise business positions and many applicants are from overseas. Generally almost all with a foreign adress, no australian visa, and lacking experince in the local (Australian) setting does not get short listed for interviews. Current job market is very competitive and often there are quite a few local applicants that are highly skilled so in that context it makes no sense for our company to take a risk on a foreigner. We have hired a few overseas candidates but their CVs were outstanding - like 'wow this person will really value add to our company' level. So unless your wife has a CV that can turn heads, dont expect a response until she gets here.

    • Ghosteye on 10/07/2018 - 01:53

      Yup, and hers isn't as lustrous as others might be, so it's definitely a massive hurdle for us.

  • WreckTangle on 09/07/2018 - 04:28
    +1

    Have you considered moving to Singapore?

    • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 10:45
      +7

      Having worked there for a couple of years and having been in the army showed me that Singapore is unkind to its workers.

      Employers can literally stop paying you and you would have to wait 4-5 months and go through the hassle of submitting claims. They won't even have to face any legal repercussion for doing this

      There's a great deal of stress with the prospect that someone is willing to do your job for less. Combine that with no sense of minimum wage and you get even the big 4 companies paying measly 1-2k p/m for semi- senior auditors ( degree holding with 4-5 years experience )

      I don't want her to be stuck in a never ending rat race to the top, and show her that life has so much more to offer than work

      • [Deactivated] on 09/07/2018 - 19:18

        Is the work-related stress and competition really as bad as I've heard in Singapore?

        • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 21:18

          Yup, it really does take a toll on your health. Finishing off your day in a crowded, stinky public transport system does not ease things up. The trains can be crowded on weekdays even up to 11PM.

          It's a combination of some of the more severe work cultures in Korea and Japan (not going home until the manager goes home, workers are expected to constantly OT, etc) plus the high expenses of Singaporean living that really crushes the soul.

          Local degree holders fill up the bottom of the chain ( the max you would be able to reach as a local would be a local department manager) while overseas expats are paid tons of money. The power dynamic and salary difference here can be astounding at times.

        • jctdell on 10/07/2018 - 13:29

          @Ghosteye:

          Wouldn't the salary earned in Singapore be higher than in Oz ? And the taxes also much lower ? Great way to earn the big bucks before 'retiring' back to Oz .

          I doubt local Singapore degree holders are at the bottom of the chain. Bottom exes tend to be expats from South Asia and certain EU countries.

          My ex partner was from Singapore Uni in Accountancy. She and many of her peers (10 to 15 years work experience after Uni) were paying Singapore Income tax of nearly 20% (which translates to an annual salary in excess of $200,000 and more )

          If she had joined the Public sector , her salary will even be higher . Hey , even a public high school principal there earns more than $250,000.
          And their Ministers ? They earn millions $$.

        • Ghosteye on 10/07/2018 - 14:15

          @jctdell:
          Taxes are indeed much lower. If you took the average of the salaries for every working adult in Singapore, it would seem fair, with the average for every single working adult here in Singapore is around 58k p/a (https://www.payscale.com/research/SG/Location=Singapore/Sala…). However, I think the real problem here is that we're not looking at the median salaries.

          Data from (http://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Income-Summary-Table.aspx) shows that the median salary for local Singaporeans here is 4.3k, which results in a 10k difference between the 58k p/a and 48k p/a.
          I think the numbers speak for themselves, and that something is amiss here.

          From my own personal experience, I think that Singaporeans do tend to get paid well when compared to the rest of the world, but if you take a look at my partner's company, most of the personnel holding high management positions are overseas degree holders, or mainly just professionals from the western world. She's in a position where she can potentially earn 70-80k here in Australia, but her income is garnering about half that. This evidence is completely anecdotal, so it might be not be relevant.

          As for Ministers and public sector servants, I would rather not comment. I have a strong bias against them and how they treat the lower income tiered Singaporeans and the elderly.

      • simcooo on 11/07/2018 - 00:22

        C'mon "Employers can literally stop paying you and you would have to wait 4-5 months and go through the hassle of submitting claims. They won't even have to face any legal repercussion for doing this…combine that with no sense of minimum wage and you get even the big 4 companies paying measly 1-2k p/m for semi- senior auditors ( degree holding with 4-5 years experience )"

        Thats not even close to being true.

        nearly everything you have described about Singapore is untrue.

        The stress, yes. but you make the choice to compete, there are heaps of people who are pretty comfortable just allowing work to take a backseat, but of course that comes with sacrifices. that would be the same everywhere wouldn't it?

        • Ghosteye on 11/07/2018 - 01:21

          Go on, most of what I said is anecdotal, and you're going to need to give me some sort of evidence from your side too. Otherwise it's just being biased.

        • simcooo on 11/07/2018 - 08:03

          @Ghosteye:

          Guide to accounting job salaries in Singapore:
          https://blog.seedly.sg/salary-guide-singapore/#Accounting

          "Employers can literally stop paying you and you would have to wait 4-5 months and go through the hassle of submitting claims. They won't even have to face any legal repercussion for doing this"

          As a local employment lawyer, I can tell you for a fact that this is untrue. For employees covered by the employment act (exec & managerial earning under 4.5k a month, as well as, all other non-managerial, exec employees), salary payments must be paid within 7 days of the last day of employment (http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/salary/paying-sal…).

          for regular salary, it must be paid at least once a month and within 7 days of the salary period.

        • Ghosteye on 11/07/2018 - 16:35

          @simcooo: Have you considered what would happen after you don't get paid within "7 days of the last day of employment" ?

          This is where the 4-5 month ordeal begins, I've been through the brunt of it myself.

          1) The first step after the employer chooses not to pay out a salary is this: You can either go to the small claims court, or through TADM. Either can result in 2 ways, the court throwing your case out of the window, or you try and 'negotiate' with the employer through TADM.

          2) I didn't take the route of the small claims court, but I can assure you that that method is a sure-fire way to shoot yourself (if you are a foreign worker) in the foot when you have to represent yourself against the employer in court. In my case, I chose to go through the TADM avenue, hoping that they would reciprocate and show up. ( Some employers think they have a right not to pay you, regardless of whether you think you're entitled to it at all.

          3) You have to set up an appointment with the case officer at TADM, who will listen to you, and try to nitpick your story until it is impossible to hold your ground, almost like a police styled interrogation. After hearing you out, he/she can then choose to either drop your case, or proceed forward with 'negotiations'. By the time this step has been finalized, you would have already spent a month.
          If you are in a new job, or getting deported without your work visa, there is no way possible for you to be able to even achieve this step. If the officer does not want to pick up your case, you can kiss those work hours goodbye.

          3)This is where the fun begins. Once the case has been opened both parties will have to agree on a time to meet, and try to come to a resolution on that day. Since there are 3 parties, and depending whether the employer is a dick or not, the mediation time can be arranged as far as 3-4 months from the date that the case was opened.

          4) When you enter the room to negotiate with them, you have to be aware of 2 things: 1. The mediation officer has no legal right to force this employer to pay even if he/she knows the employer is in the wrong 2. You might not get the amount that you were due.
          By the time you have reached this stage, you would been exasperated to the stage of wanting to rip your hair out.
          Many people give up at this stage and accept whatever that has been offered to them (ie owed 4k, employer offered to settle for 2k)

          5) Assuming that negotiations go overtime and one of the parties go into a timeout/ want to go home, another mediation meeting can be set up, and will set you back another 2-3 months. In cases where the mediation fails, the ex-employee has to be the one to submit claims in the small claims court. If you read the Singaporean statues, I can assure you that in no way will the employer be held responsible. At most they would be ordered to pay the full amount back to you.
          By this time you would have spent a minimum of 5 days of leave at your new job, and a countless number of hours running around like a headless chicken to TADM, home, your new workplace, and any other commitments you have.

          Through no fault of your own.

          This whole process will set you back a minimum of 3 months, provided that everyone is cooperative. For cases where it is not so, I have heard that sometimes it takes 1.5 years for the dispute to be settled.

          I don't know whether you're a lawyer like you claim to be, but you should know that the law you mentioned has very little consequences for the employer. Moreover Singapore law differs from employment law in Australia, and you should know that. In Singapore the police will not help you in this matter, and the only person who has the jurisdiction to is the small claims court.

          I hope this has furthered your understanding of how Singaporean employment law and practices work, and hope it has helped you in some way.

          edit: I realised you used a blog to back your claims, and the blog states it's sources come from Kelly and Adecco both non official data farm sites (with one being invalid even). You're going to have to give me something more substantial and solid than this.

          Another thing i would like to point out is that I quoted median salaries of all singaporean workers and average salaries of all workers in singapore. Not just accountants.

        • simcooo on 11/07/2018 - 18:21

          @Ghosteye:

          Actually you didn't. I quote "Combine that with no sense of minimum wage and you get even the big 4 companies paying measly 1-2k p/m for semi- senior auditors ( degree holding with 4-5 years experience )". You pointed out that semi-senior auditors get paid a measly 1-2k p/m by the Big 4. That is a clear untruth.

          "I didn't take the route of the small claims court, but I can assure you that that method is a sure-fire way to shoot yourself (if you are a foreign worker) in the foot when you have to represent yourself against the employer in court. "

          The small claims tribunal does not allow for legal representation so it would be your word against the employer, not their lawyers. the process of the small claims tribunal would be as follows: (a) lodge your claim with the tribunal and arrange for a date for mediation with the tribunal appointed mediator; (b) serve claim and summons to employer; (c) meet for mediation. If matters get settled there, then you file a notice of settlement. If matters cant get settled, then everything is submitted to the tribunal for a decision.

          If your claim is sound and you have the necessary documentation to back up your claims, then it shouldnt be a problem.

          Furthermore, when you say that "the law you mentioned has very little consequences for the employer", that is also untrue. The Ministry of Manpower comes down hard on employers who do not pay salary or contribute accurately to the Central Provident Funds (if applicable), with hefty fines on (a) the company and even possibly the officers of the company.

          "I hope this has furthered your understanding of how Singaporean employment law and practices work, and hope it has helped you in some way." Not really, since you seem to be basing your understanding of how Singapore employment law and practices work solely on your personal experience and no other legal backing.

          Whilst I sympathize with your experiences with a errant employer in Singapore, it would be hasty to broadbrush Singapore employment law as being unfair, just as how it would be ridiculous to say that all Australian employer underpay and mistreat their foreign employees simply because I read a news report that said that or know someone who was underpaid.

        • Ghosteye on 11/07/2018 - 19:20

          @simcooo:

          There is nothing here anymore.

          edit: All I said was claims take 4-5 months to complete, and you haven't offered anything to counter that point. My previous comment was the anecdote to why I feel it took 4-5 months. Not sure where you are trying to head to…
          Edit 2: I actually deleted the rest of my comment because I realised it was just adding onto something unrelated.

        • simcooo on 11/07/2018 - 19:40

          @Ghosteye:

          Did you even open the link I posted? Accounting and auditing are often linked together and even if you would like to point out that nothing in there states the exact seniority, there is nothing in there with the requirement of a degree that falls within your statement of 1-2k a month.

          You seem to be set on your idea that the Singapore system does not work for you. You are right, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. By the way, theft is offence under the penal code and differs greatly from an infringement of the employment act by an employer. Different offences will always have different procedural approaches.

          I'm just going to leave you with the resources to the relevant statutes and procedural guides and you can choose whether you wish to read them.

          Small Claims Tribunal: https://www.statecourts.gov.sg/SmallClaims/Pages/GeneralInfo…
          Employment Tribunal: https://www.statecourts.gov.sg/ECT/Pages/An-Overview-of-the-Employment-Claims-Tribunals-(ECT).aspx
          Employment Act: https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/EmA1968

          back to actual billable work.

        • Ghosteye on 11/07/2018 - 20:36

          @simcooo:

          Did you read any of my text? I gave a analysis of the website and it's fallacies. It's not credible. In addition, you are cross-referencing salary tiers based on their relevance. So what if they're linked together? You don't trivialize it. Even your source bothered to split them both up. Clearly there is a difference. You can call an apple and an orange fruits but an apple is not an orange. I don't think your line of work allows slip-ups like these very often. Too much of an assumption perhaps?

          Anyway, my point is that claims take 4-5 months, in which you called a blatant lie. You still haven't offered a counterpoint and the website's moot in that sense.

          If you could just stick to the subject matter it'd be great you know. I really don't understand where you're veering off to.

          You're entitled to your opinion of me, and that's fine. A law is a law, if a law is broken, steps are taken to meet out consequences, not remedy it. You want to clue me in on why an infringement of the employment act is remediable and not any other infringement?

          I think the links would be of better use to you in your field of work. You probably need them more than me.

  • altomic on 09/07/2018 - 10:32
    +2

    maybe change the title to - "looking for work in Australia for non-australian resident whilst outside of Australia"

  • Love a bargain on 09/07/2018 - 12:35

    Visa option 1: Get partner's visa
    Visa option 2: Get professional PR visa

    Both will allow her to work & live in Australia. Option 2 is harder and probably takes much longer than option 1 (not sure about costs) but will allow her to not to rely on you to remain in the country should things go pear shape between the two of you.

    Don't expect to find anything other than manual/ casual jobs without PR/citizenship (when you're in the country).

    Even with PR status, it'll still be almost impossible to get a job offer before she turns up (her best bet for that is with any of the big-4 or second tier firms). Otherwise, it's essential that she'll willing to take the plunge and be a full-time job seeker for a while. But with an audit background (any FI/FS experience that would be a bonus), it shouldn't be too hard for her to find something if she perseveres. It might not be a permanent role at first and you have to be prepared (financially and mentally) that it might takes several months before she finds something. (Better to time the move to the nice part of the year where she can get acquainted with her new environment rather than getting cooped up in the house waiting for you to come home everyday.) Having said that, there seems to be a constant demand for contract staff and, if she turns up at the right time of the year, many companies/ agencies will be looking for contract audit staff at/ around year-end.

    • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 13:05

      Thanks for the suggestions, I guess we really need to get our finances in order for a professional PR visa before we will be able to plan for any sort of relocation plans.

  • Munki on 09/07/2018 - 16:46
    +1

    Simply cannot lah.

  • H_J on 09/07/2018 - 17:24

    Partner Visa is your best option.
    She can still live in SIG when she is applying OZ jobs.

  • monkeybusiness on 09/07/2018 - 19:41
    +1

    Few of issues here:

    1. Visa problems. No employer will hire anyone that is unable to work here. You need this sorted before applying any sort of job

    2. Accounting in Australia is one of the most saturated and competitive industries. This was due to accounting being in the skilled immigration program which has since been scaled back. As a result, it is awash with graduates and even for the people with experience, competition is fierce

    3. Lack of experience. Your partner has only done auditing. Unless she has significant exposure to accounting as well, she will be passed by a lot of firms looking for accountants. While you may argue that it is similar, in reality, accountants will say failure to see things from the accounting side hinder your ability to make decisions unless you have experienced it yourself.

    If you are a young couple, it would probably do her career well to get more experience before jumping to Australia. Unless of course she is willing to take any accounting job and/or be underpaid for it as a desperation tactic to get a sponsored visa.

    • Ghosteye on 09/07/2018 - 21:20

      Yup, I'm encouraging her to try and take a study/work visa where she can work a local part time job whilst getting an IELTS certification along with a CPA. We just don't have the finances to make this kind of move at this point in time.

      • Love a bargain on 10/07/2018 - 12:23

        IELTS & CPA can both be done while she's in Singapore if she wants to.

        If she wants to go down the studying path, she'd better pick a course that is of interest to her and would benefit her career so that it won't feel like she's wasting her time. It's going to be pretty costly coming over as an international student though.

  • saddybedangdang on 09/07/2018 - 23:31

    I feel for you mate, my girlfriend is from Canada and she's applying for a WHV to come here for a few months. She's a marketing grad so I can't imagine finding anything will be easy. Good luck to you

    • Ghosteye on 10/07/2018 - 01:52

      Goodluck to you too man.

  • hotdish on 09/07/2018 - 23:55

    Working holiday visa for Singapore citizens: https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/462-

    18-31 years old

    • Ghosteye on 10/07/2018 - 01:49

      Hmm this is interesting, also interesting that you managed to find this while I couldn't.
      Thanks for the help

  • RudedogandDweebs on 09/07/2018 - 23:57

    I would look to her background favourably and would not say no to an interview if the experience holds up. But like everyone else, PR or working rights is required first to make it easier.

  • PAPower on 10/07/2018 - 00:23

    I've got no PR although with full permit to work but I managed to work in business services (analyst & accountant) for the last 4 years. Now my luck ran out and I'm about to be ''invited to leave Australia''. Anyway, from my experience, she should find accounting positions in SME or start-up businesses and earn some local experience and potentially some networks. It's easier to get in these SME but bear in mind that at SME one'd wear many hats so it'd quite different from big4 companies.

    Partner visa is the last thing you want to proceed at the moment because it now takes 5 years on average to get PR, hefty fees of $7-8k and limitless time and effort spending on paperwork and shit. No offence but if your relo breaks down within 5 years then it'd be hard for both you and her.

    • Ghosteye on 10/07/2018 - 01:51

      Exactly what we've been considering as well. There's no guarantee for the future, but I want to help her get over her of her own accord. I might try looking for the SME's and get a feel for what they need, and whether my partner meets those requirements. Thanks for the help

      • Love a bargain on 10/07/2018 - 12:20

        No point until she's got some sort of work right mate. No SME is going to look at an applicant that will need sponsorship. & most businesses want someone who can start in a month or two's time, not someone who's still thousands of miles away.

  • chiuy on 10/07/2018 - 02:25

    Might be worth finding a good immigration agent.

    • Hardlyworkin on 10/07/2018 - 23:01

      If you want to p### money down the drain. OP seems like a smart guy, no need for an immigration agent. Between the Home affairs website and forums they can work out for themselves.

      Immigration lawyers have no place in Ozbargain!

      • chiuy on 10/07/2018 - 23:26
        +1

        They've been helpful for a number of people I know.
        This thread is at around 100 responses. A good agent would probably have covered this entire discussion at the very start.

        No comment on OP being smart or not, but he and his partner are applying for work without having the right to work in Australia.
        They clearly didn't get the relevant info or check any forums.

        I suspect there are plenty of dodgy/ripoff agents. But it seems to me a good agent is worth the money, particularly if you feel stuck or out of options.

        • Hardlyworkin on 11/07/2018 - 02:14

          Were those people you know in a financial situation to be able to spend a few grand?

          A migration agent can't do anything more than one can do themselves. Save your 7k for a partner visa, not so difficult to do yourself, especially if one half of the couple has proficient English.

          If you have the money, then save some time and get a migration agent to do it for you.

        • chiuy on 11/07/2018 - 15:58

          @Hardlyworkin:
          Yeah, most of them were well funded by folks overseas.

          The point isn't to pay someone to do something you can do yourself.
          The point is to get an expert's advice.

          OP can probably afford it. In my opinion, it would have saved them a lot of time, effort and confusion.

          Is it worth it? I dunno. Maybe.
          I just wouldn't it rule it out as strongly as you have.

        • Ghosteye on 11/07/2018 - 16:49

          @chiuy: Haha we're not well funded at all, and we might try an immigration agent maybe a few years down the road.

        • onevstheworld on 11/07/2018 - 21:46

          @Ghosteye:
          As long as you can understand English and your circumstance is straightforward (i.e. you clearly meet the eligibility criteria), immigration visa's aren't that hard to do yourself. The Dept of Home Affairs' website explains most of it. You do need to read carefully though… there can be a lot of documents and it's easy to miss something.

  • DBBROS on 10/07/2018 - 03:33

    Is she willing to try other jobs until she finds the job related to her profession? That is how most of the professionals and families of people who are on a student visa survive when they come to Australia. If her english is good and if she has around 4-5 years of experience in the relevant field, I would recommend that you apply for the 189/190 visa, preferably the 189 just so she has no restrictions to work or move to anywhere in Australia. You will need to score a high score in IELTS/OET/PTE and have the qualifications assessed by a relevant body to start with which can take around 6-8 months. I am not so sure about the partner visa but from what I have heard the process could take longer nowadays for the visa to be approved.

  • fozzie on 10/07/2018 - 07:32

    Best she gets spouse/partner visa and then move/apply. Obviously you both need to be certain about wanting to live here.
    We moved to Oz only 3 years ago, with my husband being Ozzie I got my spouse visa (took 1 year but now will take longer) and we applied for jobs whilst over here.

  • tightasian on 10/07/2018 - 08:50
    +1

    Partner visa gives her access to centrelink, some special type visa holders can't even speak English, she will survive. Thrive comes later.

  • BartholemewH on 10/07/2018 - 09:49

    I don't follow. Are you married or not? If you are, I don't see a difference between her paying the Visa costs or you paying it.

  • Serathis on 10/07/2018 - 10:02

    Hey mate, it shouldn't be hard for a Singaporean in a profession like your partner. Not sure if you know but Singaporean migrants are highly sought after as they usually speak pretty good English and are of white collar professions.

    Most of the people above are correct, most employers will not consider your partner as she is currently still overseas and they need people NOW. By the time you sort out your visa, it might be another 3-12 months. No employer is going to waste their time unless your partner is REALLY GOOD at her job.

    So get her visa sorted and look for a job when she's here ! It shouldn't be hard as I've met many Singaporeans who came and got jobs within the first 3-6months upon arrival and none of them had CPA (as they had ACCA as mentioned).

    It's just the matter of her wanting to take the risk!

    It shouldn't be hard for her to get a 457 (4 years last I heard) or to even jump straight to a Permanent Residency (as long as she's got the points)

  • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2018 - 10:41

    Singapore, the most boring tropical island on earth.

    'Guy'.

    • Ghosteye on 11/07/2018 - 04:02

      Its actually a great place to live in if you have the money to enjoy some of the higher tiered stuff they have to offer.

      Its a wonderland for the elite.

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