I am in the market for a 2-3 year old reliable medium to large SUV under $30k.
Ideally diesel but petrol would suffice
I travel approx 30 000km a year and no german brands please
I like the Toyota Kluger as it is large and strong and cheap to maintain too.
All advice will be kindy received.
Thanks
PS 4 x 4 or all wheel drive would be nice too.
Out of curiosity why no German brands?
Probably:
cheap to maintain
why no German brands
op travels 30000kms p/a. how many euro suv may take that many kms under australian conditions?
All of them.
The roads are fine, it's the poor quality diesel that kills the German cars.
They must have top notch diesel in Europe, and we get the pond scum
What Australian conditions? Where is the ice and snow at sub-freezing conditions for months on end, followed by 40 degree summer temperatures in heavy traffic, or very windy roads at high altitude in Australia?
I think the only thing this country can offer more of by way of harshness is dust.
@ThirdRonnie +1
Blinkered…As if the rest of the world doesn't have harshness by way of extreme heat or cold!
@Brianqpr: I think "Australian Conditions" must have been thought up by Holden's marketing team.
The demands of "Australian conditions" are very mild
@craagz: Rubbish. We may have good roads but they're ruined by having the lowest speed limits out of most countries.
The Monash is 80 KPH. So is most of East Link and the Ringwood bypass. The latter roads are only 10 or so years old and yet they have an ancient speed limit.
Practically all of the US is 70MPH (110KPH +), Most of mainland Europe and the UK is as well.
As for Australian conditions, not really a thing. If they lived in the NT and were driving on dusty roads maybe. But they aren't.
@gromit: I think we have more unsealed, bush roads, 4x4 only type roads, than most countries.
Just because we are so spread out, and it would not be viable to completely do up every single unsealed bush road in Australia.
@ozzpete: maybe so, but the reality is that the vast majority of Aussie’s will not ever get off sealed roads or dirt roads that 2wd vehicles can use. A 2wd vehicle can go a long way on dirt when driven properly.
@knick007: "the lowest speed limits out of most countries"….Couldn't have something to do with Australian driving standards could it?
Pajero.
Now read it in Spanish.
pahero
30,000km/yr means you'll be wanting a good diesel. Petrol will cost you dearly (the Kluger being a V6 petrol).
More info is required though…
Hopefully you actually reply, your history shows you don't partake in discussions you initiate…
Hauling much stuff around in the back? Maybe a sedan would be a better option, better on fuel, cheaper to run overall.
Cheaper on registration, better handling, shorter stopping distance, much less likely to roll over, safer, safer for others in a collision, less obstructive to the vision of others, smaller blind spots, less wearing on roads, cheaper tyres, easier to park, etc.
As above, you don't need anything big by the sounds of it… RAV4/CX5 etc should suffice and be more economical
CX5s are good cars! Reliable as well. Cant go wrong with one of those. Kia are another highly rated car with a long warranty.
looks like you dont need a 4x4, AWD, 4WD
By the looks of it you don't need an SUV. You don't need a small studio flat to ferry you around on your own all day, get a smaller car.
was going to suggest a territory actually, we bought a 3 yr old one with 50k for $25,000, quite happy with it
It appears that you actually need a sedan (preferably a long wheelbase one if you need it to be super comfortable). There's no reason that I could think of for you to buy an SUV, given these requirements.
I'd be choosing from a Mazda 6 (get the larger engine), a Toyota Aurion, or a Nissan Altima (the 3.5 L engine is an absolute pleasure to drive).
Mazda 6 also comes in diesel IIRC
Toyota Kluger
love it but heavy on petrol
New Outlander
Totally agree, I bought the MY18.5 LS 2WD 7 seat version for $31k last month and am very happy with it. The adaptive cruise control function at this price point is amazing. Also it is very economical on the highway.
You'll have to either increase your budget or look at older vehicles, but Toyota Landcruisers are basically built like tanks (and often used like tanks too elsewhere in the world). Long-term, there's really no better investment.
A land cruiser isn’t really an ideal vehicle unless you intend to use it for serious off road or tow a heavy load. To the right vehicle for the urban environment. As for getting one for $30k you’ll be looking at over 10yo and lots of kms
Yeah, it depends on what OP needs it for. But it sounds like he needs it for work, from the 30,000kms per year figure and preference for diesel. (There are other reasons for wanting those too I guess).
I wouldn’t say Landcruisers are great tow cars for heavy loads. Their chassis can handle a load fine, but they don’t have much in the power and torque department. A RR Sport for example, is a much better tow vehicle.
Ask any caravan we what they’d choose if money was no object and I reckon they’d pick a land cruiser over a RR. Actually, I don’t think I’ve even seen a ranger rover towing anything for years (but having said that will probably see 4 tomorrow)
land cruiser too heavy on petrol and diesel
A RR Sport for example, is a much better tow vehicle.
an rrs towing anything other than trams is a rare thing. an lc200 will take the towing challenge to a rrs any time.
@Euphemistic: Yeah, but people with money are too smart to buy caravans, so there’s that. The fact is a RRS is much more powerful than a land cruiser, has way more torque, a better gearbox, better self leveling suspension, a higher towing capacity (absolute, not legal) and is a better vehicle for the task. Landcruisers are
Woefully underpowered for their size.
@Burnertoasty: “woefully underpowered for their size” and “don’t have much in the power and torque department” Get over yourself. Sure your favorite Range Rover has a bit more, but seriously ‘woefully underpowered’ would be sticking a Yaris engine in a land cruiser. Land cruiser is near the top for power and torque, not the bottom.
Fact is the land cruiser is a well regarded vehicle the world over and there are plenty out there that are still going strong after years of towing heavy loads all over this country. True, the Range Rover does have a reputation as being a great vehicle, but the way you are talking the land cruiser is useless - which it certainly is not.
@Euphemistic: I never said the Landcruisers is useless, I said it’s underpowered, which it
Is. It’s a good vehicle, but for towing a RRS is better. A RRS is also much smaller and lighter, it’s in a different class.
The fact is, 200kw and 650nm from a 4.5 L V8 diesel is way behind the 8 ball. European diesels make more than that, with better delivery and fuel economy, from a 3.0 V6 diesel. If you get a Euro V8 diesel, you’re looking at a shitload more power and torque.
@Burnertoasty: you said “woefully underpowered” and “don’t have much”, don’t backpedal. When it gets to towing at the limit, smaller is not better regardless of the torque and power figures.
Anyway, as you’ve said, it’s a moot point because the OP doesn’t need any of it. You go and buy your Range Rover, I’ll be happy with my old ute.
Edit: thanks for editing your last post, missed a response to that about the figures.
Eh, 86L tank vs 140L tank
Not to mention the usual grey nomad argument as they go around the country - Toyota parts are easy to get if anything goes wrong.
But sure besides that the RR is lighter, more powerful and more economical.
@Euphemistic: I’m not back pedaling, you’re trying to create an argument where there is none. The Landcruiser is a fine vehicle, but it’s an old design, and it is a huge car, with the power of a small car. It’s a very old school philosophy, if you think that power and torque figures matter less than displacement. You could pose an argument about a torque curve, but European diesels have better torque curves than a landcruiser V8 too, with more torque from lower rpm. The fact is 650nm, in this day an age, on a car that big, isn’t much.
In terms of towing limits, they both have a maximum (legislated) capacity of 3500kg with a 350kg ball mass, but the RR will do it faster, with less fuel. They can both easily handle the maximum legal weight and more.
@Sleepyweasel: These engines aren’t over stressed and last invariably longer than engines made 20 years ago. The manufacturing tolerances are much better these days.
@Spackbace: Tank size is probably the only real argument for long haul towing. But does the massively better fuel economy of the RRS make up for the difference? In total range it’s probably pretty close.
it is a huge car, with the power of a small car.
Stop exaggerating. Find me a small car with 200kw and 650Nm
@Euphemistic: Can I just apologise for starting this? My Landcruiser idea was a bad suggestion to begin with given OP's budget.
@Euphemistic: The old Merc C350d used to put out 195kw and 620nm. The BMW 335d, 210kw and 630nm. If you want a real towing beast, have a look at the RAM 1500, which is now available in Australia starting at a reasonable $80k. The diesel version has 300kw and 1000nm of torque.
@HighAndDry: No need to apologise. It is well off track, but some people carry on about little points with huge exaggerations (and yes, I get the irony of stating a huge exaggeration). I've also noticed on my time within these forums, that BT is one of those that regularly spouts his expertise with accompanied exaggerations rather than providing a balance viewpoint.
@Euphemistic: Or perhaps you just ignore the evidence that suits your argument. The Landcruiser is a good car, it's fine for towing, but a RRS is a better car to tow with. They aren't in the same class, but the Landcruiser's engine really let it down. The V8 in the RR puts out over 250kw and 740nm torque. That's proper power and torque, and significantly more than a Landcruiser.
@Burnertoasty: I'm not ignoring evidence that the RR has better power. The fact the RR is smaller and lighter indicates it is not better for towing the heaviest loads, I read a review which said as much. RR was better for pulling with, but the landcruiser had less 'tail waggin the dog' effect from the heavy load due to it's size.
@Euphemistic: You can’t legally tow more than 3500kg in Australia, so that’s a moot point. It’s prettty convenient that you suddenly brought up a review that you ‘read’ that just happens to compare a RR Sport to a Landcruiser in towing capability. Funny how it supports your new argument.
@Burnertoasty: sigh. 'smaller is not better' was mentioned several posts ago. I didn't 'read' it either. I was genuinely interested to see how marvelous this RR was in towing and found a review by a reputable website that said the suspension and engine package on the RR was great, but that they would prefer a land cruiser's additional size and weight for towing a load near the limit.
I'm in the same basket, I wouldn't want to tow anything at the maximum limit of the vehicle. Sure it's legal, but it removes a large buffer of safety. The tow weight 'arms race' has seen that all manufacturers engineering their vehicles to the maximum of the class of vehicle, but that doesn't make them equal in all areas. I won't go for the most powerful vehicle, because I know that it is mostly a waste and the power isn't needed all the time.
@Euphemistic: Sigh indeed. Interesting that you didn’t post a link to this ‘reputable website’. Surely that would make your argument stronger.
@Burnertoasty: other than numbers what have you linked to to back your argument. A car is a lot more than power and torque figures.
@Euphemistic: Still no link. Interesting. Other than the cold hard facts what have i posted? A car is a piece of engineering. It is the sum of its numbers. I think they are both great towing cars. I think the RR Sport is better, because it has better suspension, better power and torque, and better electronics (with tow programming).
@Burnertoasty: so now you’ve calmed down and admitted that both are great as opposed to your original comments that one of them was woefully underpowered. That’s all I wanted, lesss of the hysterical bias. Your original comments were not helpful at all to anyone considering either vehicle. Sure, you can think that one is better than the other and explain why, but to bag out the other while it is still by far the most popular choice isn’t helpful to anyone.
Just because something isn’t the best doesn’t make it terrible.
Each of these vehicles target different markets. The rrs has a sportier look, feel and performance. We travel a lot on Sydney roads and may count on one hand how may towbar we see on rrs. the lc200 on the other hand is the grey nomads choice for towing.
land cruiser too heavy on petrol and diesel
You'll either have to buy a sedan, or quit whining about fuel consumption if you want a real SUV. You know, SUVs are
inherently built to tow, run off-road, etc. and consequently are far less refined and consume more fuel.
@Euphemistic: mate no one tows something that is at the maximum limit or very close to. Therefore your argument is nullified. Sometimes it's good to not be so narrow minded to one brand or thing in life and accept there are better or similar things out there that are great value for people too.
@boostpak: I beg to differ and think you mifght be mixing up my argument the landcruiser is fine with BT's argument that it is underpowered and only a RR will do the job.
Having frequented a caravan forum there are many that spend lots of time near (and over) the limit. Modern caravans are heavy from the supplier then they get filled up with water, food and stuff and quite often go over their legal mass. People buy the biggest van that their vehicle can tow, which puts it at the limit, then load it full of stuff. People pay to have the GCM/GVM upgraded on their vehicle because they are exceeding the manufacturers limits.
There was a weigh check in Victoria. https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/ove… Many were overweight. For the record, my vehicle can legally tow 3tonne but our van is around 1500kg, plenty of safety margin.
If indeed you are correct about no-one towing near the limit then my argument is completely valid because you wont need the full amount of power the RR supplies and can happily tow around with the land cruiser or a smaller vehicle that is supposedly so underpowered.
2017 Subaru Forester
nice but prefer a bit more space
Why?
my exact question? 4 people and really does not need 4x4 or 4 wheel drive but desires it for what ????? The Forester is plenty big.
Maybe an Outback 2016?
Just in case :)
so you want a 7 seater then?
The engine oil consumption from fb25 engine still an issue? I heard they haven't really solved it since 2011. I have a 2011 which pretty much binge drinking engine oil. 1l top up every 1000km,crazy!
kia sorrento
Kia Sportage SLI AWD diesel, nimble, pulls like a train, stylish, boot space is not the best though!.
Great quality and long warranty to match, look at the JD Powers global quality reviews, this benchmark is used by most global manufacturers, and is highly regarded by the auto industry!. I changed to the Sportage from my Territory, apart from the boot issue, I do not regret the purchase.
Agree completely, owner of a 2016 SLi diesel here. OP would get the remainder of the 7yr warranty. Yearly fixed price servicing. Yes the boot is a little small however I have found on trips away I can squeeze quit a bit extra under the boot floor in and around the spare tire.
What boot issue?
I think he means it's a bit small with the full size spare.
It's small compared to a full sized SUV like the Territory. It's industry leading compared to other medium SUV's.
Diesel cx5 or sportage. Great suvs. Great punch, great comfort and options especially if you manage to score an optioned model like the cx5 gt or the sportage sli. Go take a couple for a test drive.
I have a 2007 Kluger and we roughly do 500kms a week at around 12-13 litres/per 100kms. It has over 300,000 ks on it and it's running like a dream. The newer Kluger should run a touch less on fuel but it also depends on your driving style.
We do not intend on getting rid of this car so it will be interesting on how long the old girl lasts.
I do service the car every 10k kms though and I do look after it.
It won't be long before Toyota bring the hybrid Kluger/Highlander into Australia and I think they will be the first to have a hybrid in most categories in the Australain market.
There should be some very cool cars coming into the country soon.
I know you said no German brands.
But I saw a Benz ML280 the other day, diesel
I dont have the link now but my budget is also $30k.
Didnt proceed because hubby dont like diesel.
And I dont drive that much.
At $30k there is definitely a potential for a new SUV (if not 4WD and Diesel) like a Nissan QASHQAI or X-Trail, Hyundai Tucson, maybe a Kia Sportage or Subaru XV. Should be able to get some decent deals around now for new or maybe dealer demo, although would have been better just before the EOFY. With the medium size SUVs the thing to check would be rear leg/head room if your rear passengers are tall and you are doing a lot of driving. By the way, if you want a larger car for luggage, a roof pod is a wonderful thing.
If you're not going off road, then the main advantage of 4WD is safety and can be handy if you go to the snow. Diesel is definitely a nice to have, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it even when doing 30k per year. Most of that would most likely be highway and new cars are pretty efficient. Let's say petrol might average 10l/100km versus diesel 7l/100km - if fuel price is the same (and currently diesel is more expensive) - then at $1.50 per litre you'd be saving a bit over $1k per annum. Need to work out if that saving is worth the difference in price for you. And new versus second hand - also should take into account the fixed price servicing available for new cars whilst your second hand car may not have that so maintenance costs are likely to be higher…. plus you'll probably have to factor in buying new tyres.
Personally I'm not a big fan of SUVs and would go a wagon but again that's a personal thing.
Excellent point - new is possible with this budget and requirements
Most new cars will take premium unleaded and the saving in fuel comparison is around 50% opposed to your estimated 30%. The info I have provided is relevant for 2015 VW tiguan
Most euro.
Jap and Koren mostly use 91.
Skoda Superb wagon will quite likely be better to drive than any SUV within your budget. It's huuuuuge.
no german brands please
It's Czech ;)
@Speckled Jim
German…part of Volkswagen Group. VW platform & engines. Superb nevertheless
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoda_Superb
Hence
;)
HaHa…I missed that!
Less likely to roll over in a crash?
Looks nice
Don't get a Subaru diesel, problematic
If it's size that you're after, and you're not looking for a 4wd, what you really want is a wagon. Most mid-size SUVs are just jacked up sedans or hatchbacks, and you get the interior room that follows. With a wagon, they are generally extended wheelbase as compared to that brand's sedans/hatchbacks/SUVs.
Go test drive a late model Subaru Outback, the 4 banger with the CVT. Good on fuel, wonderful sized boot, heaps of legroom, storage etc for passengers and driver. Extremely reliable, quiet on the highway. The longer wheelbase than a comparable SUV helps reduce road noise.
Really good safety features for the money, you can get the 'fleet' edition which comes standard with Lane Departure Warning, Lane Keep Assist, and a bunch of other cool stuff for about 35k.
I own a Subaru outback 2.0L diesel 2013. Very generous on space (haven't found a car in the same class that has a larger boot space) and a full tank would allow me to do approx 800k average (suburban driving) or almost 1000k long road trips.
My only criticism is with frequent short trips, the particulate filter clogs up after a while. Long trips can help clear up the filter, but, correct me if I'm wrong, I think this applies to diesels in general.
Good luck to OP. Always stressful to look for a car, when when you get one, it's exciting :)
Nope, only poorly designed diesels. Hyundai/KIA diesels cycle their particulate filter from 5km/h. The only way to trip them up is to only do extremely short trips only.
What are the problems with the diesel models? I've had my Outback for 3 years and done over 80k, haven't had any dramas with it yet.
you could probably put your requirements into carsales and see what pops up.
then go from there