Plumbers here charge from $160/hr (sole trader) to $430/hr (company) then charge call out fee, or per km in their vehicle etc.
They don’t study as long as doctors but charge much more.
How will people with toilet problems be able to afford that?
In Australia, people have no hope if they are not millionaires or not a tradie.
Why Are Plumbers in Australia So Expensive?
Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 17/05/2018 - 09:41
Last edited 21/05/2018 - 20:19 by 1 other user
Last edited 21/05/2018 - 20:19 by 1 other user
Comments
150k is a lot when you don't pay tax on it
I don't see you point. $150k sounds like a lot.
It is a lot, but that's not an unreasonable figure for someone with years of experience in an in demand field. Around the mark of a skilled accountant or mid tier software developer in most cities.
No mate you do what the other retards do and multiply their hourly rate by 40 ( hours a week ), then by 52 ( weeks a year ).
" Ermagerd plumber get $140 an hour thats $1,000,666 a year doctors dont earn that much!!!"
By the way wtf does a doctor's salary have anything to do with a tradey. And why does how long you studied at uni have to do with the market.
Because we all know Tradey's that own their own business have work all the time, never need to quote jobs, and teleport instantly from job to job.
"Because we all know Tradey's that own their own business have work all the time, never need to quote jobs, and teleport instantly from job to job."
Best kind.
I'd pay extra for a teleporting tradie.
Who has 6 weeks of holidays and sickness?
Every 'Employee - other than a casual' in the country. The National Employment standards (part of the Fair Work Act) grant (a minimum of) 4 weeks Annual Leave and 2 Weeks Personal Leave (Sickies). [pro-rata for part time employees]
A tradie who has a 4 week bender and a 2 week hangover
Slack buggers do…
So by your example, the plumber would be paid $150k/annum for working 20 hours a week … I need to change my career I reckon…
Trades have become inflated due to a number of factors. Trades, historically were not well paid.
The system in place to train people as plumbers, requires already registered plumbers to train them and pay them, which is only making more competition for them in the future and costs them money (though some of it is subsidised) as you've got someone who is green and needs to be shown how to do things (when doing yourself would be much quicker); there's not a great incentive for training apprentices IMO.
There's also a shortage of qualified trades people and a booming building industry, in which people are paying stupid money to build houses.
IMO, it's really a perfect storm for trades to charge whatever they like. High demand, low supply, not enough competition.
There are also a lot of people who just don't know how to do anything practical and don't want to learn, in that case, they have to pay. Years ago, you'd do whatever you could yourself unless you absolutely had to call a professional because money was tight and many people had more practical skills.
The other consideration, as has been said already, is that if you want to do anything with sewer you need a licensed plumber, legally. I think there's merit to that in some respects but not in others.
If it's something simple, learn how to do it and try yourself, if the thought of that gives you the willies then of course hire a plumber.
My own 2c is that this is the golden age for trades. I think in the future houses will largely be pre-fabbed and then brought onto site, with modular elements for electrical / plumbing to reduce costs and allow automated units to do the majority of the work. If there's one industry that is at high risk of automation it's trades IMO. That's prob a long way down the road though.
Great post!
The system in place to train people as plumbers, requires already registered plumbers to train them and pay them, which is only making more competition for them in the future and costs them money (though some of it is subsidised) as you've got someone who is green and needs to be shown how to do things (when doing yourself would be much quicker); there's not a great incentive for training apprentices IMO.
While I knew how plumbers are trained, I never stepped back and thought about it like that ^ before.
Thanks, appreciate the kindness and the reply :)
It's the same for all medical doctors and specialists. Keep the supply low so they can charge more.
It's called the market
Correct on all counts. My brothers are trying to become plumbers and it’s very difficult to get work as you approach your final years of required work experience. Few plumbers are willing to train up their competition, why would you? The guys who own those little 5 van plumbing companies are indeed loaded.
They also mention that they spend a lot of time digging. No need to get a plumber to dig, you can do that yourself, but people seem to want to pay plumbers to do it. Very expensive holes when plumbers dig them.
Thanks for an intelligent respond. Not too many in this thread.
Plumbers are expensive, and if people disagree with that statement, then they are obviously rich middle class people raking in thousands of dollars each week. To determine relative expense, I like to compare everything to the minimum wage, or to a full government pension. The full government pension is ~$400 a week; a single hours work from a tradie could cost that much. How are poorer folk supposed to live in a society where full of greedy 'capitalists' engaging in egregious price gouging.
A friend of mine in his mid 30s is still paying off his mortgage for his first home. He has a PHD from Berkeley and is an accomplished researcher. Meanwhile he got a plumber to get some work done at his place and got to know that the plumber owns 2 houses outright. What a world we live in.
this Dr. from Berkeley spent 4 years getting a Phd while, the plumber was elbow deep in dumps earning his keep.
Research is fine, but mid thirties is so young these millennials want everything now. you have to put in the hard yards and work before you can own a home.You don’t know how to get a Ph D degree from UC Berkley. It takes longer than unsw mbbs, not to mention it is more competitive to get in than a medicine course in Australia..
Lol at assuming research = money. Not all PHDs are hard. Most are just incredibly niche and subject specific
So the plumber has probably been working for twice as long as the academic, his two houses may well be worth less than the academics house as well, Not necessarily apples with apples.
Getting a PhD doesn't generate revenue for employers or companies. The sales team generates leads and revenue. To companies and universities, researchers are just complicated expensive smart people with high IQ and low EQ that will probably ROI once in 100 years.
The plumber offers skills and services that fix a problem and provide solutions to customers who in return pay for the service they can't do themselves.
The plumber spent the last 10 years working instead of studying.
Certain phds are incredibly valuable for employers and companies, some of these people truly have a love for research and spend the rest of their lives in a university, others jump to industry and make hundreds of thousands a year.
People with the capability to be top researchers are incredibly rare and valuable to society, and the idea that they don't deserve more compensation than a plumber is, in my view, ridiculous. The fact that they have to "sell out" to get compensation is not something we should be celebrating.
You should ask that from the inventors of Wi-Fi right here in Australia. Ask them if that generated more revenue for CSIRO or would it have been more profitable if they had given that researcher an apprenticeship on how to fix toilets. Innovation drives revenue and has lasting social and economic effects.
Maybe he should have been a plumber then
Think about it this way trickster, by the time is the plumber's body in his mid-40s will be battered from all the physical hard work he's done (he'll probably look and feel over 50), whereas the PHD will probably still look like he's in his late 30s.
It's why you almost near see a brickie or concreter in their 50s
Good point.
I know a few guys now over the age of 50 that retired a long time ago and they were a brickie and a plumber. One has two homes paid off, the other has three, renting two, all paid.
Work hard, play hard.
I thought it was because they had their own businesses and don't get their hands dirty anymore.
But I agree physical issues also prevent that.
Yea I don't think anyone would rather be the plumber in this situation.
Even so, researchers from elite universities should probably be paid more, but thats more a problem with academia paying like garbage than a problem with trades paying too well.
Your attitude that university-educated jobs are inherently better than tradie jobs is exactly why there aren't enough tradies and they can charge so much.
Yep
Do you live in a wealthy suburb? Some tradies will jack up their prices based on where you live. As will every other business in your area from supermarkets to small businesses.
Also if it's a small job of course you will get charged more as it's a game of scale. Plumbers make most of their money on big jobs not home call outs. As someone said, if they only did home callouts it's a super inefficient use of their time. They'd be better off on a big construction project for the whole day or a whole week.
Don't forget, plumbing is a skilled profession and a good plumber will have years of experience under his belt. Like most things…you get what you pay for. I'd rather pay for a good plumber who gets it fixed the first time than dodgy cheap guys who I have to keep getting back.
I'm not here to defend them as certainly there are dodgy plumbers but there are also dodgy accountants, lawyers, doctors and more who charge far more than plumbers! I know enough plumbers to be aware that most are not "killing it" and $160 an hour is very rare so you should do more price comparisons. Most plumbers are on about $60 an hour. That excludes a base callout fee that might be around $150 to cover transportation costs etc.
150 for transportation! Must be using Jet Fuel mixed with gold leafs in his v6
Maybe he needed to melt steel beams.
How many people want to fix other people's shit (literally!) for a little money?
If the pay wasn't good, you'd be complaining that there's a shortage of plumbers when a pipe bursts and shits floating around your home.
Well, if the choice is between shit or (pretty generous) welfare, bring on the dole.
If the choice was going hungry or fixing shit, I'd fix shit.
Are they expensive? Compared to what?
They certainly work harder than phony executives, and share traders who sit on their bums all dayfound the plumber!
I have been known to plumb
new depths?
Yea, coz anyone who does a trade is a harder worker than someone who sits on a chair. Anyone who works with their hands is a harder work than anyone who studies, right?
Have you done physical labor before? Its very hard work. Am I crazy for believing they shouldn't be paid slave wages?
Having worked in both trades and in offices, my view is that both work equally hard, but in different ways.
Yes, I was born in a poor working class family, had to wake up 5am each morning and head out to help family business from about 6 years old till 18. I was encouraged to study hard to find a “easier” desk job.
I studied hard, got great marks, got a desk job. I dislike it and found it “easier” to be working with my hands. Personal choice obviously, but I just see thru the BS statements you make.
pimped my necie (nurse) to a plumber and now I have health and plumbing covered, but alas her sister wont do a nice lawyer ive found… shelfish bitch
What motive would someone have to put up a joke post like this?
The only one I can think of is that they are affiliated with the legal industry and are seeking to deflect attention from discussion about high legal fees.
Simple answer - become a DIY plumber.
Most plumbing repairs are fairly easy to do and there are plenty of guides on YouTube.
It works very well for me. I rarely get a plumber in to fix anything.I agree, last plumber I used charged $500 to install vanity waste, fit off (ie screw on) bathroom and shower fittings and set a toilet. I supplied everything except the material to set the toilet. The toilet leaks, the vanity waste leaks, he cracked a tile fitting the bath fittings….
I have since replaced the pipes and waste underneath my kitchen sink. No leaks and cost SFA.
Admittedly, I haven't read most of the above comments… (sorry no time, busy, busy).
The problem is that there is a MASS shortage of Apprentices taking up Trade Education.
In this day and age there is NO job security. Employers are hesitant in committing themselves to teaching someone with little return for a couple of years in a 4yr apprentice. (until they know which way is up)
More demand = higher bills… Thank-you Government.Isn't a shortage of apprentices doing plumbing at Wollongong atm. In last 3 years they've gone from 4 first year classes to 8 from what my teacher has said. Pretty sure a lot of apprentices are being signed off after just 3 years now as well
Plumbers should be free, doctors should be free, lawyers should be free… People should work because they love their profession and not expect anything in return… Food should be free, the house that I want to buy and the required renovation should be free… My new car and the petrol should be free… Stephanie for MP!
The thing is anything in Australia is "expensive", from housing to the plumber and the AUD 25 margarita that you drink in the CBD (if you don't, many people do). I broke a simple 1m x 1.2m glass at home and the guy wants AUD 500 to replace it. Labour cost is expensive in Australia so basically everything that involves people is expensive. You can certainly find cheaper doctors, lawyers, or plumbers… I definitely want to find a cheaper glass replacement (PM accepted if you can show that you have a decent business - Inner East Melbourne).
i know a guy in china who can export to you directly or if you want closer from malaysia for half that price delivered :) installation not included, bubble wrap and foamy bits optional
not gonna have much of a society if people only work jobs they love, life isn't a communist fairy tale
Yeah, I can give my experience.
Toilet flush mechanism not working well, little water coming out.
Was quoted $1,500 to fix each toilet. Had 2 toilets with same issue.DIY and parts only under $30 each to replace faulty mechanism.
Took about 1 hour each to fix.Insert argument about faeces everywhere to justify $1,500.
You don't pay the plumber for banging on the pipes, you pay them for knowing where to bang.
Ohh you didn't pay attention at school. The kids on the bludge/wagging had their sights on the eat-shit-repeat cycle.
This was something they could understand.Once the Secrets of The Order* were understood and mastered, it opened the Doors Of Aspiration <- yep, it' a real thing.
*The Secret is better explained here.
And now you know.
Trades can have upwards of $10,000 in personal insurances to pay each year, the cost of their tools, the vans/Utes (base models can cost $50k), petrol, maintenance due to high kilometres from constantly driving (upto 60,000km's a year). So don't think they will spend one hour driving to your house, doing the job and then driving one hour home, only to charge you $30.
pretty much everything tax deductible
it's tax deductible not tax rebat
pentole: i hope you know that, tax deductable means you only get a small % refund, not 100%. eg: buy a power tool for $2000, you dont automatically get $2000 back (making it essentially free) what you might get back is more like $200-$300 of that.
2000, claim approx. 182 in GST at the end of the quarter. Provided your turnover is currently less than 10M, claim the entire 1818 remaining at year end against your income, thereby reducing your tax liaility by 1818 times your marginal/company tax rate. Well over 300 no matter how you slice it on average + income.
@BartholemewH: really not how it works at all. For tools if it costs more than $300 you can only claim the value of the depreciation of the tools, not the whole amount.
That would mean they would have to voluntarily declare their income to pay tax to receive the rebate if their eftpos machine is coincidently out of order. Would they?
I find it somewhat amusing how let say for example an 'IT Person' charges $120/hr & he has little more than a screwdriver & an Ethernet cable in an aluminium case yet they'll bitch about paying $150/hr for a Tradey to walk in their shit! Let alone the $100k in tools!
Notice how they ignore your comment
False comparison.
They bitch about the 'IT Person' as well, "you just plug things in and type stuff, how hard is that?"
(Actually we just look up shit on Google - don't tell anyone!)
The Government doesn't require you to hire said IT person to reformat your laptop though…
Hi I use Tinder to see if I can find friendship the same as I watch pornhub to see if the plumber fixes the sink
Tradies make a mint down here generally. I know quite a few friends and even family members who got degrees and in some cases masters etc in professional engineering or IT roles and lately have started studying and now working as electricians or air conditionin installers or plumbers. Because the money and the lifestyle of being able to almost dictate your own hours etc was so good. Its crazy considering they were actually making good money in their professional roles but yeah they changed careers and are making more money after having spend far less time learning / studying for the new career compared to their old career.
We should just bring in tradies from overseas like we do with doctors. Increase supply, reduce cost to consumer :) . Next post why doesn't my plumber bulk bill .
Maybe we could bring in some plumbers from Europe. Stephanie might know someone ;-) . Surely there are costs involved in service/maintainence of that mouth of hers 😉overseas tradies from the likes of india, bangladesh, nepal, indonesia charge an average $20-30AUD PER DAY in respective / neighbouring countries…
1st world problems perhaps? fault of the PEOPLE for being so useless and lame ? people demand justice and safety and rush to the biggest avail of complaining re human life standard thus the creation/formation/requirement of white blue orange purple red and yellow cards, also requiring safety boots and caps and insurances and that OBVIOUSLY needs to lead to CFMU and the likes unions whose roles are PURELY to HELP those in the industry which means there's plenty of red tape which hey? gets transferred back to the PEOPLE :) yay! what a vicious cycle :D
ps; the 417s tht are here on oz land, are so lucky half of them don't know it and the other half that do want to migrate their entire village if not state / province over!
Alright let me say it while no one willing to face the truth: they are taking advantage of you!
One personal observation is cities that are a bit more late-stage capitalist / wider wealth gaps (e.g. HK, SG, Chinese main cities etc), tradies there are poor af. Here in Australia, tradies own their own homes, usually quite decent homes, many outearn middle class professionals, women don't mind marrying tradies (as much) etc etc. Maybe we need to up our capitalism…
why?
From what I've seen, at least tradies can build something. Most middle class professionals have useless jobs, and are mostly just pawns for ambitious people seeking to justify greater positions. That's why they get so angry at tradespeople, because they get to work a useful job AND make lots of money.
Ouch!
Yeah well, the truth hurts.
..particularly when its been weaponized for that purpose.Even so.. I take no responsibility 😒
Dude you have a massive axe to grind hey. Good for you for doing a job you're proud of.
But yeah, the operating system you're using to post on OzBaragin or just the OzBargain sitez are all made possible by people just sitting on their arse mate working a middle class job.
Everything from movies you watch to the smartphone app you use to message your customers, arse-seating jobs mate.
Just be nice to people.
Every field has their days depending on the economy. Expensive labour is a good sign, good for you for making a good living. Your field comes down to supply and demand, that's it. There's no need to flame your hate for people with other jobs. No need to shit on everyone with your misinformed blanket statement.
Nah, I'm done with axes. Too much work. A blocksplitter may not be as 'macho', but it can be operated by anyone.
Jokes aside, do you see Scotty commenting in this thread? How about the people that programmed your operating system?
No, you don't, because people who do stuff are too busy doing stuff and getting paid to cut other people down. When you have skills, you can trust yourself to always be able to take care of yourself. Its the people that feel useless, that think they lucked into their position and can't get it again if it was lost, that are insecure and feel the need to tear others down.It's to them that all my negativity is directed. They are a cancer that strangles the human race, and holds us all back.
You want to know the worst part? Its a very very successful strategy, so there are lots and lots that follow it.My opinion summed up is:
If you're a talented and productive person, great. I think you deserve more, because you can be trusted to make the best with what you have.
If you're not so talented, be thankful for what you have. Don't tear down the talented people that support your world in an attempt to climb higher. Instead of asking that others make less, ask yourself what you can do to justify asking your boss for more.For further reading, see Price's Law
There will always be a 'middle' tier. Even if everyone become exceptionally talented, they will drive a new benchmark. Your negativity towards 'cancerous' population is unjustified because the work you do just so HAPPENS to be in demand. Move to any developing nation it will be a different story because the economy is different.
There are people who are born into poverty and lack of opportunity can snowball into mediocre roles in society. My comment is more geared towards your '(profanity) you, I got mine' attitude. Your superiority complex that you labour and made it means you have the right to lack in empathy for grey areas. Mate you're way too black and white, that's some radical attitude.
So just for simplicity sake, your argument can be summed up as
People who earn their living through labor should earn less than people who earn it through working 'with their mind', because physical labor is easier than working with your mind, and this is true even when the labor is productive and 'the mind' work is not.
If you challenge this view, you have a superiority complex and 'flaming your hate for people with other jobs'.Is this correct?
I'm sorry I disagree with this. Whether you're a plumber or a professional BOTH have value and are productive types of employment.
The long and the short of it is that people who decided to do a trade like you decided to start their careers earlier therefore working earlier and able to earn more because of length of time they have been working unlike tertiary qualified professionals who have to pay for a university degree once they start working. The middle class tiers and professionals you have been bagging throughout this post are also the ones that can help you out with providing the work you're looking for or help your business (eg accountant legal) grow or take care of you in an emergency (nurse/dr)..
Isnt it time to grab the sledgehammer and jump off the soap box?
Mate honestly, sounds like the only person here "tearing others down" and the only person holding you back is you.
If you have to tear others down in order to push forward you have to be the one to look at yourself in the mirror everyday.Not everyone takes the bottle away from the baby to get ahead.
It's a nice pile of assumptions you've built yourself there my friend..but I never said I was a tradesman. I considered it for a while, but then I found out the average tradesman is on like 60k. You can earn a little more if you run your own business, but you don't need to have a trade qualification for that. Anyone can startup a company, "Lennox Electrical", hire a few guys and go at it if they want to.
@outlander
Although that has a nice ring to it, thanks mate, I have my own business already.
So if your not a tradesman what is it exactly that you do do then ?OuchlanderOutlander is a gifted, part-time, d-i-y plumber.
Also an electrician.One example, he will pop-up and check your ceiling fans, well before summer arrives.
Here is actual footage of him doing just that, for one slightly unsuspecting customer. Speedy.
All just for the callout fee, of a blueberry."He is a cuddly scamp" - Scotty Ang (Fashion Designer)
Just one testimonial.Here's a great review:
"Not all heroes wear capes, be the Jedi that you yourself need, or hire Outlander" - Ozb-Wan KenobiWow, ok, here's another one:
"Best not to contract water-borne diseases, or electrocute yourself" - His Very Worried MumOk, the reviews are a bit variable.
You changed your avatar, outlander. That's not too peachy. You will have disappointed Tom Hanks.
Equally, frightened Batboy. He, but not Forrest, may still run to work through the reeds and long grass that beset Melbourne & its jungly surrounds.
You no bities and.kindly.please.also refrain from visiting the Melbourne Zoo Elephants, especially on an empty stomach.
ThanksOutlander, I remember you when you were just a somewhat furry scamp, not a scaly one. Alas…
Hold on, wasn't that just a minute ago?
:-)
@Dne:
Thanks. Im sure he comes highly recommended but I dont want a scottish guy in a kilt showing up at my place to fix the plumbing. I think i got that covered.
Two of the reviews are glowing.
He may turn up in an orange shirt teamed with tartan. A marketing opportunity there if not.Maybe a Plumb Bob Squarepants cartoon on t-shirt subbing for the OzBargain logo could be advised, there. Other counsel of different sort may not like.
Outlander has plenty of nous when he chooses to use it. Also plenty of good opinions here and there and expresses them well. He shouldn't be underestimated.
Very excellent Tale of The Scots there too Lennox.
Watch that video right to the very end if didn't. Creature possibly a character in next superhero/animated franchise movie, or should be!
@Dne:
We all have to grow up, and outwards. Tom Hanks will forgive me. Sss sss sss
Not a fan of elephants but my mum enjoys them. Also it seems batboy is no longer. Jar Jar lives again! Praises jebus!
JJ… b? Even lowercase will still
frightendistress some fans of Star Wars. Probably
I also appear to have offended him in one way or another. Unintentional. Perils of unintended venturing back to non-deal content.It sounds as if your Mum may collect the odd elephant figurine. I know someone like that. Another collects camels.
You can send this link to her - this elephant bub making the best use of a wading pool.
Pretty likely that no additional plumbing was required for that.Allowing for OzBargain's endless contretemps, probably just as well.
Bonus mudbath
Have a good day, Sss… Squarepants!
Sounds serious. Also seems to have imparted something of a spiky appearance.
May I recommend some soothing (may be chocolate-flavoured?) ele-milk, instead?
:)If that doesn't lift your mood a bit, grumbleguts, maybe I could interest you in a talking miniature horse?
Cute birb who pretty much just stays calm and carries on?
Corgi Ronaldo??Yes?
Good!Bonus fun thing to think about - You, General Outlander Grumbleguts Squarepants, may well have created an army of toasty-warm OzBargainers, marching through their abodes, dragging very long extension cords behind them…. Possibly some on the couch wondering if cords will maybe stretch as far the letterbox, to allow collection of their "random colour" (pink, lime-green) gadgets, bought after seeing on OzBargain!
:-)
Also, General O, sorry to read that you lost your Grampa. You will find that your fond memories of him will at times overlap with some sadness, even a long time down the track. Yeap, does continue, but will serve as testament to just how much he meant to you.
@[Deactivated]: Its the baby. All the time he was spending replying to you is now going to that darling creature. Try not to take it personally. He's not replying to me either.
@outlander: Absolutely nothing wrong with changed focus, when good reason or other considered, if sound, basis. Baby a good reason.
Foolish to even speculate on possibles surrounding/attributing the other, as pertains the thoughts of others. A life lesson in there somewhere, and for anyone, outlander.
A couple of colourfully engaged threads you've just posted. Odd in first one that no one has mentioned perils of batch-variation when buying quantities of food. Not just flavour, but mainly. Also, not just food. Manufacturing more 'consistent' than was, but you would still want to be very enamoured of any given batches/best-before dates, before buying significant quantity, of just about anything.
Will spareyouboth of us, list of specifics encountered over time, forming that view.Nor any mention of mad-scramble travails to buy remaining stock, when great/liked/needed product, is actually discontinued?
Maybe you could bring that up in a separate thread.Take as read, there, my reminder of time when belated (because of having stocked-up) discovery of two specific Gerber baby food varieties having been discontinued, then led to entire lost weekend of ringing supermarkets and driving all over town. Buying as few as a, couple of jars per store. That was fun. Pre gps-assist, refidex-required, became aware of a couple of previously unheard of suburbs. Exciting times.
Outlander, you have a good weekend - your current lurgy, notwithstanding!
:)
Here, this will cheer you up. Maybe also that other fellow, if in some sort of funk.
$160/hr sounds high but how many actual "billable" hours do you think these small time plumbers actually rack up? Lets say they manage 2 2-hour billable jobs a day, 5 days per week for 46 weeks of the year (I've taken off 6 weeks for holiday & sickness). Thats still under $150k per year - and we haven't deducted any expenses yet (vehicle, insurance, tools, advertising, accounting - to name a few).