Hi everyone.
I've been driving a run down 2003 Camry with 150,000kms on the clock for the past few years, recently I've decided I want to live a little so I am in the market for an entry level high performance car. My requirements are the following:
What would you guys buy? and why?
Let me know in the comments below.
Downgrade to Stinger? How so?
Unless he meant it as a joke, Stinger is actually a very good car. It's probably too fast as OP only wants max 160kw engine. I agree about Mustang though, I have driven the 4 cylinder and the 8 cylinder model and don't like either one of them.
OP says Minimum 160kw so Stinger would be fine.
@Halo375: my bad. selective reading, I read that as max 160kw.
My pick would be Subaru Sti or VW Golf R
Can I ask why not the Mustang?
I have watched quite a few reviews about the Stinger - all of them praised it despite … the Kia badge
Go test drive a Kia Stinger, before buying anything.
270kw. 7 year unlimited km warranty. At 60k you wont find better value for money nor better performance.
It's not competing with hot hatches.
They're probably aiming for low end Lexus / BMW sedan buyers. For the same price you're getting a sh*tload more power and luxuries included as a base model 3 series etc
@Merlict: It’s a Kia though. It’s the same price as a used high end 3 series.
No way a new 3 series buyer would consider a Kia. You may get more but that badge doesn’t exactly speak.
@knick007:
At 60k you're basically looking at a 3 year old BMW 335, which is seriously down on power and inching towards being out of warranty and costing a fortune to maintain.
Sure the Kia badge is a bit lame, but they laughed at Lexus when they were getting started too.
Exactly, once you start to actually think about, what they're offering is actually pretty damn impressive.
It's cheaper than an Audi A5, with the performance of an Audi S5 are around 120K - about double the price of the Stinger GT.
Once you factor the 7 year warranty, the much higher service costs and higher depreciation of the Audi, it becomes more of a question as to whether or not it's worth paying all that extra just to have an Audi badge and slightly better quality interior over a Kia badge.
And if having a Kia badge is that much of a big deal, can always swap it for the Korean Kia badge. Which looks a lot classier in my opinion.
Kia is obviously trying really hard to change their image, and if they continue like this, they'll be successful no doubt.
@Merlict: No one laughed at Lexus, the launched with the LS400 which was better than the S class of the time. It's just that people laugh at them now, because up until the LC500, all they made was out of date, underpowered rubbish in the last few years.
Certainly is still a Kia. But if you want to pay twice the price for similar level of performance just because you're worried about what other people might think about you driving a Kia - then ultimately it's your loss.
if having a Kia badge is that much of a big deal
The nice people at Kia already thought of this and have a special badge on the Stinger.
You think the Kia Stinger is ugly? What the (profanity), what cars do you think are good looking?
@knick007: On the Hyundai, the badge was so bad they changed it to a new badge (which looks much more awesome). Genesis is a nice car because of that badge alone.
Can't go past the 7 year warranty. Especially when you end up blowing one or both of the turbos within a few weeks.
I’m sure the Stinger is actually a good car, but I really can’t stand the look of it.
Megane
Golf R with change (brand new)
Or used S3.
Manual for both
Nowadays the Dual clutch DSG is actually faster than a comparable manual transmission on the golf R (and I would assume, the s3). OP, if you really want a balance between performance, practicality and luxury, I'd buy a 1 or 2 year old golf r (with less than 30,000ks) and then add a couple of easy mods - coilovers, performance tires, APR tune (highly recommended) and potentially some rims for aesthetics. You'll have a blast!
My DSG died after 5 years with less than 40k kms and cost 5k to repair. LUCKILY VW paid full cost on good faith basis but i would never recommend a dsg to anyone after this experience. Had no car for at least 8 weeks as well. Supposed to be very common thing to fail, not worth the hassle. I have two friends with manual VWs which have never skipped a beat. Go manual.
VW has fixed most of the DSG issues. It was just that 2009-2011 period car.
Still a manual is more fun on these cars. It’s more whether the OP is happy to do manual every day.
@knick007:
Manual is more fun BUT dsg would be better in traffic.
Where/when is the OP driving this car?
If it's a major city, say Sydney, then forget about manual.
That's what I mean.
If the OP takes the train to work every day and drives on the weekend then a manual would be manageable. If they are in stop/start traffic everyday it would be a little annoying.
@knick007: My model was apparently manufactured 1 month after the end of the recall period. Believe me they haven't 'fixed' DSG, there is a lot that can go wrong with the technology and it isn't limited to VW. In my case the mechatronic unit required replacement as it was leaking fluid.
@knick007: That is a personal thing.
I don't mind using a shift in protracted traffic, ever. Maybe when I get older, or if my knees joints start hurting.
@Budju: my golf also had the same issue. VW replaced for free, but I had to get a hire car for the week.
@UNO: No hire car for me, just an F load of annoying interactions with the people at the dealership. I was going to take them to court if they didn't cover my costs, probably only had half a chance of winning but they were so rude I was going to do it anyway.
Nowdays? DSG has been faster since their inception. In fact most single clutch transmissions were way way way faster than manual.
if you get either of these, DSG is an absolute must..
Golf if you don't mind worst reliability
Used Nissan 370z with $35K left in your budget to do something else
I haven't owned one, but I've taken a mildly modified 370z for a spin and it seemed quite decent, i liked it over the brz/86. Massive tyres/brakes, reasonable engine for a n/a
What sucks about them?
Hopelessly outclassed, a 15 year old design, ugly, not fast, just a can of mehhh on 4 wheels.
Yea i mostly think they're incredibly ugly. This one had a tasteful bodykit with 19x11" wheels, and getting behind the wheel of it completely changed my mind about them
Ironic that is the comment you take issue with
You commented on the ugly design, i replied about a tasteful bodykit. I mean tasteful in the sense of subtle lips/skirting, enough to improve the look without giving a sense that it's been overly modified
And what do you recommend?
Have you driven one?
R8's are fun to drive and nice. Plenty of performance parts to cheaply increase power. The Stinger's edge is far to high for public roads.
There is not much euro that is as fast for that money. Those that are are either tiny or cost a mint to service.
@This Guy: I’m not an Australian car guy, I’ve never owned one, but the last gen R8 was a treat for those who got hold of one, it had the supercharged LSA engine, usually reserved for much more expensive cars, like the $100k GTS. It was very much an under rated car and a thank you gift for those who bought it as a goodbye present. It’s a future classic for sure. I’ve never actually driven an R8, in fact I’ve never driven a commodore, but I respect that car. It’s a much better car than the afore mentioned 370Z.
On a side note, I’ve spent the day driving around a Tesla Model S, stomping it at every opportunity and I feel as sick as a dog. It was only a 75D, but I pulled off repeated 0-100kmh in 4.0 even with a 80% charge. It will literally beat anything off the line in a street drag, it tails off after 80kmh, but before that, it’s an absolute beast. I’ve only driven an 85D and a 75D but I’d love to drive a P100D.
Why is the above comment getting negged so much? 370z is ridiculously outdated. Uninspiring handling for a short wheelbase 2 door coupe. It makes the same power as most 2.0L turbo 4s with a 3.5L v6 that doesn't sound great. Looks like decent value for a used one on paper but test drive it and I honestly doubt you'll prefer it over any of its competitors.
Uninspiring handling for a short wheelbase 2 door coupe.
Australian motoring press were running out of superlatives back in 2009.
a 3.5L v6
Did you drive a de-stroked VQ37?
that doesn't sound great
Most V6s improve with a zorst.
lol'ed at you alternative facts tho.
Mate that is THE most track-capable car for the price out of the factory.
Like the guy said, you'd buy one 2nd hand and save a lot of cash.
What do you not understand about this?
One of OP's goals is to spend cash - not save it. His actual question is, "which car should he blow 60K windfall on?"
I have been craving owning a 350z for a while so bad, prefer them over the 370
160kw is not a performance car in any way, unless you're looking at a Lotus 7 or something.
160kw ATW in a car is pretty decent and is more than enough to have fun. In a light body its even better.
ATW and engine power is not the same and 160kw engine power is not high performance unless extremely lightweight
Performance is more than power - good suspension/wheels/tyres is better than a crap handling car with 200+kW
Agree it is enough if the car is light
You're wrong about 160kw being insufficient, but more importantly using power alone to classify a performance car doesn't work. By your measure, a V6 Camry is more of a performance car than a Porsche Boxter.
I’m not going to take car advice from a guy who can’t spell Boxster.
If that's all you've got I feel bad for you buddy
Focus RS.
Get ready for the 20k head gasket replacements.
Hopeless engine design, uselesss car. Better off with a subaru.
HeAdGaSkEt!!!
LoNgMoToR when the head warps
@Euphemistic:
No, just reviews and videos in YouTube (in North America and Britain) where long motors are a common replacement. And auto expert where titan ford calls the owner a f**kwit
My thoughts instantly.
Marty said it himself, open deck engines received closed deck UPGRADES for power.
Meaning open deck is shit, end of story.
idiot
HeAdGaSkEeeeeeeet!!!
Do NOT buy a Focus RS. My sister dropped 57k on one a few months back and its spent more time at the dealers than on the road. Next on the agenda is the headgasket recall.
Edit: I asked my sister how much the dealer offered to take it back off her at 3 months old and she said they didn't want to at any price lol. I think the current RS is a lemon.
If that’s the case, and the car was new, the dealer will be looking at a full refund. Consumer law now covers this type of scenario and what you’ve described is starting to sound like a major failure.
Given the RS will probably be worth little to nothing resale with all the issues, I’d be pushing very hard for a refund.
Yeah, she drives like grandma as it's her baby… I'd hate to see the problems with one driven hard all the time.
@BartholemewH: Some times driving a fun car like a grandma is the source of the problems-Just saying
V8 commo
many vintages
Supra. Or a Golf GTI/R or Focus RS.
Kia Stinger is getting awesome reviews at the moment. Don’t know if it will fit in your budget though
OP should be able to get anything but a GT if they buy tomorrow. Drive away is 60,996.50 (city, NSW) for both the 2L GT-Line and the 330Si. KIA have a $777 discount though to Sunday.
Kia are really comming along they got some good looking cars.
It looks sick too!
If you're prioritising value for money then you can't go past the Holden SSV Redline. Can still find a new or demo for under $60,000.
+1
I have an SSV Redline wagon and love it.
I'm never happy with my cars standard though and spent an extra $10k for 390kw at the engine.
Golf R/Focus RS
While these are both good cars (and I think the RS is a better car), I have a problem with their AWD systems, which are front biased haldex style units. Essentially they are fwd hatches, which shift power backwards on demand. I don't like handling that results from this kind of drivetrain, which is fine up to the limit, but when you step over, its an understeering mess. If only BMW did the M2 in a rear biased AWD.
Ok then RWD conversion on your Camry + drop in a 2JZ
And the poor engine design of the focus puts it last on the list if reliability is a must
Current shape WRX STI can be had for around $30k used, even for the Premium Model. Not sure what better value than that exists.
The only person in this thread with a brain.
As long as it hasn't had the sh*t thrashed out of it
subi traction even the standard rex is good
Cheapest one at 34k, with a shitload of kms. I don't see how that's value for money.
The WRX V1 Premium, IMHO is a much better choice.
downgrade to kia stinger or mustang