I noticed that the Coles catalogue states that free plastic bags will end by 1 July and that you can now buy the 80% recycled ones for 15 cents. Will you be stockpiling the free plastic bags before 1 July?
Supermarket Plastic Bags
Lcapslock on 16/03/2018 - 13:22
Comments
if you keep them for too long, they actually start 'disintegrating', I found some in my drawer thats been there for years and it just crumbled into little pieces… :/
Apparently the little pieces take a long time to degrade further and so offer no environmental advantage, but are much more difficult to clean up if littered.
And more likely to be ingested by wildlife, then a whole bag.
Scrooge McDuck, do you have evidence to back that claim? Sort of makes no sense unless the there was layers or strips of different plastic material making up the bag.
Burn the rubbish for energy like Norway and Sweden does. Norway and Sweden can't import enough rubbish to burn and they are oil rich countries. They also have the tech to capture the CO2 from burning the waste.
It seems it would be win-win for Aus to do the same with the energy crisis but then again the federal government have their fingers in the fossil fuels energy plants pie.
Also stop dumping raw sewage straight into the ocean as is practised in Australia.
Yes, I have definitely found that with modern plastic bags. They seem to crumble after about 6 months. Im guessing they are made to degrade easier in landfill, but if they didn't fall to peices so easy, I wouldn't have to replace the bag every few months, around some of the bagged items I have in storage :/
Yep they last a lot less than they used to. I pulled a bag out this week that was packed only 2 years ago, and it fell to pieces. twenty years ago it would have taken 5 years without sunlight.
I know what the Christmas & Birthday Gift wrap looks like
You're talking about the new recycled ones. Not the original ones. Original ones can last 4-5 years and they will still be okay to throw trash in.
It only happens with those yellow target bags for me.
We started stockpiling them years ago.
I hope you brought a raincoat! If not perhaps you can fashion one from your bags:
Cue shitstorm of virtue signalling lefty social media echo chamber misanthropic environmentalist slacktivists…
I find it amusing that those who complain about virtue signalling are among the biggest virtue-signallers ;)
Are you sure you have the right person? How am I a big virtue signaller?
O_O
@abb:
No it isn't. My comment is cynical and cynicism is not held to be a virtue.
Virtue signalling refers to the conspicuous espousal of politically correct beliefs, which are held to be virtuous.
I agree with abb. You were virtue signalling your anti-leftist attitude, placing yourself in a position of superiority to them by showing disdain for their position.
Cool story bro!
You might want to read this:
When are they going to stop selling items in plastic bags? Even cucumber comes with plastics.
Take a free trolley home instead
There have been no free bags in ACT for a few years now
Same with SA
Yeah, it's just Vic and NSW that are dragging their feet.
We still have them in Qld.
That's north on the map.Lies, QLD is a made up place full of elves and fairies, everybody knows that. Just like Transilvania.
It goes without saying when it comes to QLD and dragging their feet on many issues…
Wrong - Queensland is the a**e-end of the world.
And I'm entitled to say that because I live there!
They had plastic bags in the 1950's? Amazing.
@misu p: nope ask Bob, there's no fairies or transilvania types in Nth Qld, certainly not in his electrate
@supabrudda: True story, was reviewing CVs for a position at work a few weeks ago and one of the applicants had a degree from the University of Transylvania!!!
Any reasons why NSW and VIC decided to not ban it when other states did? Curious to know what their arguments were.
Curious to know what their arguments were.
it's because a hdpe bag is more environmentally friendly compared to the alternatives.
@whooah1979: You mean NSW and VIC tried to retain the use of HDPE bags rather than banning it? Are the free bags available in Coles and Woolies HDPE bags?
coles and wow use regular lightweight plastic bags.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/ditching-plastic-bags-…
these bags are made from hdpe.
http://schoolsrecycle.planetark.org/documents/doc-854-plasti…@whooah1979: Well.. my question was - what was the argument of NSW and VIC to not ban the regular bags when other states did it? Sorry if I misunderstood your comment.
ACT is actually conducting a review as to whether or not the program has improved waste in the environment.
The big issue is people are still treating the 15c bags like the old free ones, using them for landfill etc. instead of re-using. They are much thicker and worse for the environment than the old thin ones.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/environment-commiss…
They are probably worse, I used to use the free plastic bags as bin liners as they were the perfect size, now I have to buy bags for the little bins.
Yep, seems to be a way of increasing profit for the supermarket. I am not looking forward to older age and trying to get food home.
Unfortunately the drift of that review seems to be the Greens looking at how to ban the 15c bags too. Less regulation as a result of a review .. not very likely!
My butcher stills gives me a nice strong disposable bag - full of meaty goodness. I bet that infuriates those vegan greenies!
What do you line your bins with? Not snark, honest question. When VIC phase out supermarket bags, I'm going to have to buy equal amounts of rubbish bags. It's not going to slow my plastic bag usage at all.
Newspaper.
it's gonna get expensive. iPads to line the bin?
I use my community newspaper and junk mail.
But you are lining your bins with our trees.
Ask them to stop ending the newspaper/junk mail to you.
biodegradable bags or newspaper
We've stockpiled quite a few for this reason but yep, long term it just means we'll be buying a roll of shopping bags to use anyway.
Garbage bags… like normal human beings. :)
To be honest I prefer bin bags as the grocery bags normally have holes and are a pain if they leak. Here in the UK they cost virtually the same (5p), but the grocery bag profits apparently go to charity. It would be great if they did the same in Australia.
Having to buy bags really made me start taking reusable plastic bags to the shops, which I never remembered to back in Sydney. They are easier to carry too.
I understand people's specticism but I think it will be a good change.
I don't line them-they are rubbish bins. I just wash them out after emptying.
Which is the main reason I drove from Gordon to Queanbeyan to do my grocery shopping for several years. I refused to pay for bags as a matter of principle, even though it cost me a fortune in fuel and time.
you can take load piles of it at the self checkout, if you want to keep some.
LOl -that's what I do — each few months I take about 50 and the person that watches the self check outs never stop me. I use them for bin liners but use reusable bags for shopping- I know I have to eventually stop using plastic bags for bin liners but so convenient
People are stupid.
Disposable shopping bags are actually useful unlike the chronic over packaging of the stuff we put in the disposable bags.
How about targeting the waste we're putting in the bags and let us actually have and use the useful shopping bags.
There's also the argument of how environmentally friendly the "less disposable bags" are. Seems they're not a silver bullet here.
/rant
While the embodied resources in the reusable bags are obviously higher than in the single use bags, the quantity is so many fewer that the avoided waste and litter is a worthwhile saving.
I agree with the packaging problem. The number of unnecessary clam shells that enclose things like biscuits is ridiculous.Are you certain? http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/the-crazy-trut…
Couple this with the increased health risks and the value proposition of reusable bags starts to diminish.
The article also should consider the collective trillions of km that the 'green bags' are travelling in the back of people's cars. Most of us will just leave the bags in our cars and drive them everywhere. The collective tonnes of bags travelling trillions of kms is a lot of extra oil burnt and CO2 released.
Not to mention many of us will now be buying bags as bin liners, and/or using heavier bags inside suitcases on planes. That's even more trillions of km and CO2.
Unfortunately there are many 'green' initiatives that are ultimately worse for the environment. Sometimes I think it's just about making the environmentally-conscious feel good rather than actually doing good. It's definitely doing bad in terms of having a practical way to carry groceries.
I also don't really buy the argument it's going to reduce the amount of plastic in the ocean. Are there any empirical figures which show a reduction of plastic in the coastal areas where they banned bags (e.g. South Australia or California)? There will still be tonnes and tonnes of plastic entering the ocean. Most of it comes from other countries anyway. Just go to the beach in Bali.
If you read my comment and that article, you will see they are talking about climate change, while I talked more broadly.
If you get 104 used plastic bags and toss them in the creek, then toss one reusable bag, you will see that while their climate impact may be equivalent, their environmental footprint it not.I don't see why using the bags for many years seems surprising. I bought 8 as a start in 2007, and have bought fewer than 8 as replacements since.
I remember the bags when I plan a shop, but if I buy a few things unplanned I use another bag (my work backpack, if I have that with me) or take a disposable.
I guess I use the reusable ones 2 or 3 times a week, and take a disposable once or twice.I suppose there are people who have 60 reusable bags because they buy one every time they forget, but it seems odd behaviour.
I anticipate the removal of free bags will prompt me to be more diligent about carrying a bag for minor purchasessBut no sane person tosses bags into creeks just because they can. Most people would actually be aware of their impact on the environment and try to minimise the amount of bags they needlessly throw away.
I use the disposable bags as bin liners and also as coverings when I microwave food.
Now I'll have to buy bin liners to replace them. There will be 0 plastic saved on my behalf, only extra needing to be purchased.
But no sane person tosses bags into creeks just because they can
They end up there regardless. Clean Up Australia says that 50 million end up as litter, Queensland government says that 16 million enter the environment in Queensland. You very rarely see reusable bags or bin liners in the environment. This will have a massive impact on that part of the problem.
@c0balt: You have a very generous opinion of your fellow Australian, for every one person who is conscious about litter, another one seems to just throw their rubbish off to the side when they're done.
I use the disposable bags as bin liners and also as coverings when I microwave food.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to use plastic bags (especially non food grade) over your food when you microwave it. I think this will expose you to a cocktail of nasty chemicals.
There's some paranoid assumptions here - but perhaps be cautious.
@c0balt: Especially considering that you take your shopping home, use it for rubbish and then put it in the bin.
I reuse my shopping bags but seriously how many people do you think do? I'd bet more than 95% are going straight to landfill. And Aldi have proven that a little financial disincentive does encourage people to bring their own bags. I'm all for targeting excess packaging in addition to this. This is a good policy.
I suspect far more than 5% are reused for kitchen, etc rubbish bags. It's not like we stopped using rubbish bags at home, we now purchase them along side our reusable bags or collect more from the fruit and veggies sections.
From my casual observation it seems those who "don't care about the waste" just pay for the bags at the register and throw them out anyway.
I could be wrong, but that's what I see.
From my casual observation it seems those who "don't care about the waste" just pay for the bags at the register and throw them out anyway.
This is true, but for those that are just a bit lazy or forgetful to take reusable bags, adding a little hip pocket incentive will stop them using disposable bags. I reckon there's the majority of people in that group.
Do you shop at Aldi? People very rarely buy plastic bags. They somehow remember to bring their own. Just like they will here.
For arguments sake, I'll be super conservative and say 1/3rd will continue to buy bags (although I honestly believe it will be much, much lower). So just for Woolies alone, that's 2 billion less plastic bags a year (they hand out 3.2 billion).
@dazweeja: From the other side of the coin, the reusable bags are probably a bit more robust and use more plastic than the freebie disposable ones. Still, even if they are stopping 2/3 of the bags they might still use 1/2 the plastic. Even then, it's a big saving in resources.
ALDI offers face to face service, cheaper prices and no self checkouts. Meanwhile Woolworths/Coles charge a premium with no service. No wonder people rort self checkouts; It's their way of telling them to get stuffed.
As for Greenie loons spend a week in a remote part of Australia with no local cafes, public transport or fast internet and I bet you could not survive for a week.
@Euphemistic:
I doubt that 15 cents a bag is really going to be much of a disincentive to most people tbh. I could be wrong though … There's always a first@ozzpete: I think it will. Maybe not overwhelming, but it will make a difference. There are plenty of people who will take the extra 10sec when they leave the house to save 4-5 bags at 15c each. One bag is 15c but a weekly grocery shop for a household will be more like $1.
When there is $1 coin required to use a trolley I’d say 90% get returned to get that $1 back. When there is no trolley token, they get left everywhere.
I’ve been surprised how busy the new container refund machines have been around here (Nsw). There are always people lined up to stand there and feed the machine for 10c a pop.
@dazweeja: I never remember to bring bags to Aldi, I just load everything into my arms and carry it to the car.
Yes, I do that sometimes too. And sometimes it's a bit awkward and if a plastic bag was sitting there and it was free, I'd probably use it. And yet I've never bought one. So I think that even at 15c, it's a disincentive to use one. Also the act of purchasing is another step where you have to choose whether you you really need one or not.
@dazweeja:you need to add the additional 1.9 billion rubbish bags that they will sell to ppl that usually reuse the plastic bags…
@Euphemistic:
Yes, im surprised how many people line up for 10 cents per bottle also. I guess maybe Im a bit more rational than many people ie. I lined up 1 time with my plastic bottles and had following issues arise ;
Firstly, had to move my car, to truck beeping horn behind me (it was the collection truck).
*Then had to wait for truck to finish, came back 10 minutes later.. truck was gone, but they hadn't reopened the machine after emptying it :/ .
*Went for drive/detour, came back an hour later, machine still out of order . When I left, other people waiting and wanting to use machine, decided to call the service number to have machine re-opened after being empty, but the people on the service line must have only opened 1 side, the other side was still "out of service" , so you could put plactic bottles in but not glass, or vice versa.
*Then I found that the machine does not accept the large plactic bottles I brought with me to put into machine.
I then came to my senses, and rationalised. Why recycle small bottles for 10 cents, yet it doesnt accept large platic bottles, seems very illogical.
I realised I had just wasted over an hour of time, 2 trips to outside woolworths store (when I only usually shop at coles) , had wasted much of my time, and fuel costs etc, just for a few cents.
Did not return, and probably will never return, due to line up and waiting for machine, faulty machines, slow machines as can only put 1 in at a time, plus the futility of the whole process given that nothing is given for larger plastic bottles (which 1 would think are more important to recycle).
I still put my plastic bottles into recycling section of my household waste, and I do think there is some novelty value to these machines initially. However once the novelty wears off, and once everyone realised what a waste of time and petrol and effort it is, just for a few cents, I expect this system will most likely fail.
I believe we should be able to place these 10 cent per bottle items outside our own property, have them collected, recycled, and refunded.
Other options would be;
Add more machines and in more locations (to avoid people having to wait potentially half an hour, to use a machine) .
Make machines so you can put more than 1 bottle in at a time.
If your going to have an incentive to recycle small bottles, add an incentive to recycle larger bottles also . Perhaps something that goes by weight, so larger bottle gets more, smaller bottle (less plastic) gets less.@ozzpete: the 10c thing isn’t designed to increase recycle rates as much as reduce litter. Mostly the large bottles aren’t used in public places, more at home when there is kerbside recycling available. 10c is an incentive for people to take their small drink containers home to recycle, and other people will psibly pick them up for the profit.
My first visit to the machine was a fail too. The glass side was full. Wasn’t bad though as it wasn’t a special trip, I only took the bottles because I was going to the same centre anyway. Sure, I had to take them back home, but I just took them the next time. No biggie.
@Euphemistic: Are there really that many people these that litter ie. Just throw rubbish on the ground :/ .
I would expect the majority people frequenting parks, like 90% or higher, would put their rubbish in bin. Personally, if there is no bin around, I would take whatever rubbish I have from park, into my car, if there is no bin around. There mostly are bins around in any public park though. Usually every 50 metres or so.
Peehaps Im overstating/overestimating the integrity of others visiting parks. But surely vast majority do not litter these days, since we are so much more socially and environmentally aware. So if it's about not littering, rather than recycling , it would seem to punish and inconvenience many, due to the wrongdoing of the small majority of inconsiderate individuals who use parks as public places as rubbish dumps.@ozzpete: the number of people that throw cans and bottles from cars is still pretty high. Roadside litter is a big problem.
@Euphemistic: The can thing is a con. They give us the refund for a month, the cans then go up the equivalent as it is now a deposit. In my neighbourhood there are pensioners jumping fences to check down the sides of house for peoples stashes of cans. A mates daughter was in tears after an old lady stole hers. On bin day there are multiple people out doing routes where they raid recycling bins before the garbage trucks get there. I am expecting fights next.
Over the last 2 months it has been full 6 out of the 8 visits. Pain in the bum having to bring them home again. They can't be crushed so take up heaps of room.
And Aldi have proven that a little financial disincentive does encourage people to bring their own bags.
Consumers are confused if they think Aldi is doing it for environmental reasons. Aldi sells a roll of bin liners for $7. Giving away free shopping bags will undercut their bottom line.
No-one has suggested that Aldi does it for environmental reasons, nor does Aldi claim that. The claim they do it as a cost-saving measure and as that fits in with the rest of their philosophy, I find it a reasonable explanation.
Which people are stupid?
Those in power who make decisions on such things as we're discussing here.
Amen to that
I re-use the so-called disposable bags. I won't be paying for their bags.
People are stupid.
Yep, but the big supermarkets are not. Turns out they save a heap of money by not providing plastic bags (in addition to forcing us to buy more garbage bags) but it's not likely to actually help the environment:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/ditching-plastic-bags-…
I think looking at the totality of the situation, you would also need to factor in increased staffing requirements as using bags of different shapes and sizes would take longer than just using plastic bags. Likely wouldn't turn it into a net loss but would even it out a bit
They really don't take longer, I worked as a check out chick for 8 years and generally they are easier to pack.
You get more in them, they don't break as easily, the only downside is they can be considerably heavier.
All products should have no plastic packaging, they need to be banned. I know most people do the right thing but if you look at the sides of roads, there is plastic rubbish everywhere, so until everyone stops littering, plastic should be banned, it's always the few that ruin it for all but until there is a solution, the accumulation of plastic in the natural environment must stop and reverse. Everything paper or paper wax packaging that will biodegrade when tossed.
Everything paper or paper wax packaging that will biodegrade when tossed.
a tosser will think "great, this is biodegradable" and start dumping more rubbish.
plastic is a commodity that has no equal. its application is endless. it would be an economic suicide to ban it without an alternative to take it's place.
No they will place wax paper packaging and refuse in special bins. Once people can be demonstrated to act properly and place refuse in a bin and not just throwing it out of a car, everyone must carry the burden of less convenience. Personal irresponsibly must stop or the ban continues, it's the only way. I don't think the problem is too bad in Australia but in 3rd world countries the plastic litter is terrible most going into the oceans and killing wildlife. It is a terrible situation. We could do it in Australia but I bet vested interests and concerns about people not being able to eat junk food out of plastic containers for convince will prevail, it should be done thou.
At the least, I think all fast food places must be forced to not use plastic, much of the waste I see is from chain fast food stores like McDonald's. People who eat fast fat junk foods and sodas don't care for their health or the environment so more likely to litter.
We started stockpiling them years ago. Just need some way to remember to actually take them into the shop with us from 1 July.