I read a business article which spoke about people who don't do shit but are still employed.
It said how any one person in any department could give you names of five people who can be made redundant right away as they don't add any value to the company.
I thought about it and to me it was true, I work at a telco and I can pick five people (I can even see them right now) who can be made redundant.
is it true for others can you see those five ?
In any given organisation 5% of people do 50% of the work.
so you're there's a work divide?
5% of the workforce own 50% of all the work.
interesting
Try your first sentence again…
sauce?
bro science
sauce?
Garlic and chilli please.
@Drew22: Sounds like a bs correlation when applied to income. The 1% dont do the most work. They have the best investments. Likewise I cant see it applying to your entry level min wage drone jobs in those sort of percentages. And that final bit is complete bs. It's not churning over, the gap is increasing. To be clear I'm not questioning the distribution or anything like that, just that he is suggesting the level of work/effort is the cause of it. If you look at the stats for taxes paid & accusations of illegal activity (they always have a fall guy) then you will see just as strong correlation.
I do 100 % of the work!
I just fired cat for sleeping on the job.
UPDATE: Cat has been rehired as Lap Heating Technician.
@Scrooge McDuck: Soon to be promoted into obscurity again, replaced even by a person with a working visa?
Cat can't be replaced. Maybe promoted to Catupuncturist if cat's claws aren't trimmed.
@Scrooge McDuck: What about when the Team Manager sees the new recruits from robopussy inc. are all younger, accept change like chumps whilst remaining keen to please?
@Scrooge McDuck: AI is changing everything. What Machine Learning will do once it gets to your lap… who knows where it will take us.
Was cat on a 457 visa?
@Drew22 are you talking about Pareto principle?
If you cut the laziest 10%, you only create another 10% laziest people.
Or one could say: If they don't pay me for what I work, I work for what they pay me.
i'd say it's more departmental.
I’m one of the 50%. Guess which side.
OP’s next post “work just fired those 5 lazy people and now I have to do all their work. How can I get work to hire more people so I don’t have to do as much…”
It's about the workload.
If it's a one man job. That means there should only be one person in the department.
But having said that, you need to account for the peak workload as well, which may have justified the extra staff to start off with.
That's why you typically see at least 2 -3 people during road work most of the time standing doing anything but road work. But when the asphalt is laid, they need the stuff to be worked on ASAP (peak work load). Thus justifying the number of total staff to start off with.
You also need to be able to backfill for annual leave periods, and cover unplanned leave as well (i.e. sick leave). A one-man job should still have at least two people who are able and reasonably available to perform it.
You're right, I gave you thumbs up just for the record.
What if they think the same about you? I mean, you are at work posting in ozbargain forums….
Posted at 8:22pm.
You mean you aren't still at work?
I can even see them right now
OP works in a family business or with flat mates? You do realise that the world doesn’t stop working when you leave the office yeah?
I think it’s ironic that OP is complaining about people and their worth in a team, yet still takes time out of work to waste time and post on OzB…
I Ozbargain at work all the time.
same, ive forgotten what i even do at work.
saving the budget bottom line by using cash rewards giftcards to purchase everything
Hah yep. Always in the bosses good books when I share the 0.01c bargains :D
I didn't know you had a job Broden.
lol, I'm jobless.
Me too.
Their pens. Tips of their pens! Holding hands, at work, what else could it be other than pens?
@sky blu: 7 upvotes, this is treason, I've reported all of you to the mods.
Me and BrodenIt where having a nice normal chat on Ozbargain talking about how neither of us have jobs, BrodenIt said we should hold hands, I then said "just hands thought" referring that we should hold on to our money and not spend it on junk.
What's more I have been insulted, wounded for I have been labelled as a slut!
@redfox1200: nop, you may of read one of my comments about how frugal I am, I buy my pens from Office Works as mentioned in a previous comment.
Hahahaha hahahah… holy shit. Funniest shit I have clicked on all day.
In my line of work, it has a much more acceptable meaning, but now, thanks to you, when someone asks where a certain person is and they say they are out “docking”, I will be forever ruined…
If they would pay me better, I would not need to rely on OzBargain to get my gadgets at a price I can afford.
Yeah it was probably paid for by big business wanting to cut staff to save money and aimed at people like yourself that believe it.
If a company has inefficiencies then they need to deal with it.
The biggest inefficiencies are in management. They have bought into this "increased efficieny" and "cheaper outsourcing" rubbish which means you keep throwing people out of jobs and have less and less people who retain your domain knowledge. All the while taking on more and more outsource workers; where you can't guarantee who will be working for you at any given time. In the end you have, effectively, lost control of your company as the only people who know how it works are no longer directly employed by you - you are tied to the outsource company who seems to be providing you with people who are less and less capable, because they are cheaper for them. YOu aren't even in the same country so you have no real ability for effective oversight of the process. By the time you twig to what is going on you only have a few people left who still have the domain knowledge and the ability to drive the process for you - if they get tired of the companies attitude and decide to move on you are really stuffed.
To the OP, you may think there are a bunch of people who are "dead weight" but they may be thinking the same thing about you. It depends on what these people bring to the table for the company and you may not be aware of what that is.
a bunch of people who are "dead weight" but they may be thinking the same thing about you
Years ago in a Scott Adams 'Dilbert' there was a story about managers in a company who decided to form a 'deadwood posse', where they roamed the corridors looking for slackers like @OP.
It was canned after it eventually occurred to them that if they had plenty of time to wander around looking for those people, then…
We outsourced IT department just one of many i had an issue one day the guy put me on hold while he was supposedly fixing it.
I pinged him a note to ask how he was going to which he replied yeah i just can't seem to get it clear yet i wrote back try getting off the F*%^)% internet on my account watching you tube video's then you might be able to clear my problem he didn't realise i'd kept a third window open to watch what he was up to as i often have to stop them destroying stuff by guessing how to fix something.
I'm in that unfortunate position where i've had enough and the company are wondering what they can do to keep me because i'm one of the only ones who has all the master access to our main servers they gave it to me out of frustration because they couldn't get anything working. and i often feel why do i bother. then my pay comes in and I remember.
i'm the only one who knows all our systems back to front so new mangers with a point to prove need to come armed with more than a degree and a few management courses.
As for management don't be scared to tell they are wrong you will often find they don't have the knowledge to argue the point and if someone can't give me a good reason screw em they get nailed to the wall. sick of being nice for the sake of them getting a bigger bonus.
Great story, and all too common nowdays. If you are really lucky you can get in early enough to get the juicy package; later on you are just expected to make the "executive decision" work. Senior management goes through the merri-go-round so often that you only ever get "seagull" management - flies in, makes a lot of noise, craps everywhere and then leaves. This now appears to match the results from the outsourcing model as well.
My suggestion is to sit down and write yourself a manifesto - document what the issues are and how they could be addressed. If nothing else it is a great cathartic exercise. You then provide it to your manager. It makes you look keen, but even better, when it goes pear shaped you have documented proof you highlighted everything and they will need to find someone else to blame. It is a bit like giving birth but whenever management complains about something you can direct them to the page where you would have addressed it if they only bothered to listen.
@try2bhelpful: don't worry i do and still do, i never go looking for acceptance at work like the people who write 10 page documents on how they went above and beyond. i just do my job and because i understand it more than the average bear they rarely have a leg to stand on.
They tried it once, i just printed out every contradictory statement or email i had instructing or stating otherwise and it soon become a no win contest. they ended up arguing their own position. or told to come back when they understood what they were trying to achieve. I have forged documents they produced and all sorts i'm the last person they need to start a one up game with.
It's all a bit ridiculous when you consider what i'm employed to do, look at everything from everywhere fill in the blanks and predict the next moves.
so trying to get one over me means they need to start a little earlier as i've already had a look at it. generally a couple of years in advance.
@Toons: Personally I have a theory about outsourcing, paticularly for large companies. You keep your own business/network/application architecture teams and your own project managers and then oursource the hands and feet to deliver it; setting defined requirements for a successful delivery. That way you keep your domain knowledge and control of the various outsource groups. You never become too dependent on any one supplier because you have people who know what they are doing driving the process. Unfortunately this requires management that actually wants to manage because the core of the business is kept in house, so I can't see it taking off; however, this may become more popular as management begins to see the outsourcing model creeping further and further up the tree.
@try2bhelpful: Agree
We go through the 7 year cycle were we wan't to own everything then changing of the guard and were back to outsourcing. I defined all the roles with 7 multinationals to find the new contract they were tendering had used a let the contractor pick the role title and description. didn't work.
As far as the chocolate fireguard factory We had a internal Wiki that gave these departments the info they needed to rectify the issue. when it was out sourced that went none of them could find it and we ended up having a local and a remote team as a result or the remote team not being able to handle anything urgent.
Since then we replaced the Wiki with one of our AI builds we have a couple from somewhere i can't say but i do have a picture of it from my trip to somewhere that was building it in 2006 i think so all up 5 in total
the one i can't say whose property it is, it's not just a Large Rack full of fancy high powered processors it has a human interface that responds. you wave at it it waves back greet it and it will respond. My 4yr old kid would love it, it would be like all his dreams coming true and i'd never get him back out the building.
We have another one we built that is becoming a wiki of sorts type in question it gives you the answer who subject expert it and a bunch of relevant information.
@try2bhelpful: seagull management, I laughed so hard when I read this! Its exactly like management at work!
I've observed that too. I don't want to work for these managed services companies, but all the real jobs have been outsourced to them.
It won't last long. Some genius will present a new business model where business knowledge and competitive advantage are important, and managed services companies will have no work because companies start employing their own staff.
The problem is, I'll have several years of unemployment on my resume by the time it happens, and all the people in the managed services companies will be competing for my job.
As for dead weight, I've only ever worked for one company where every decision was made for the good of the company. Everywhere else, there are managers building teams for their egos and making all sorts of decisions that you wouldn't if you were spending your own money. The result is often staff doing jobs that aren't adding value, but I don't know whether 5 out of every 6 are dead weight.
The way to differentiate yourself from the managed services company people is to ask the guy in the interview some real world issues they are having and come up with solutions on how to address them. You need to show you are an independent thinker who will step up to the plate when needed, rather than being completely risk adverse and trying to blame everyone else. Do your background work on the company, and the position, and tailor you cover letter to the job to try to get to the interview stage. Even if unemployed keep meeting with colleagues still in the industry, the best way to get a job is through someone already at the place. If you can get someone to vouch for you it is much easier to get into the interview.
I am one of those 5 but I keep getting paid so I keep turning up.
Don't forget to keep vewt vewy qwiet…
The squeaky wheels gets fired or something like that.
Straight forward honest answer
I'm gonna have to ask you to go ahead and move your desk again…
that's probably a good indication of companies with dead weight. I had a boss who apparently specialised in office relocations.
I work at a telco and I can pick five people (I can even see them right now) who can be made redundant.
Are they browsing ozbargain?
whirlpoolers (it is a telco after all)
Maybe they seem unimportant as they are dealing with problems that you may not see. Like 'my tail was broken by some tech provisioning a POTS line for next door, or the NBN, or a truck arguing with a pole up the street' and are keeping the pressure off the people doing the work.
This is ultimately unnecessary of course, it's just that management would need to wake up to itself to arrange what it does in a co-ordinated way that develops their competitive advantage, rather than actively diminishes it by hiring teams of people to follow up and co-ordinate/make excuses/deal with complaints to problems that could have been long avoided by a modicum of conscientious thought.
Try working for the government
The thing about working for government is the general public assumes all workers in every department are lazy leeches.
Aren't they?
The thing about government, shit rolls down hill and the majority of the work is burden the lower workers. Then you have mid to high management - pencil pushers that do everything they can to keep their job relevant and safe - nepotism, irrelevant changes here and there and sometimes the bull whip.
For example, In QLD Health, someone got paid big money to make a performance indicator. So some 'Business Manager' created a "Traffic lights" system to indicate how busy a ward or facility is IE - red = bad, green = not busy and amber = forgotten and dont care.
Therefore the peasants are expected update this everyday. Of course, the pencil pushers do not understand that all Nursing staff are flat out 100% dealing with real issues with complex problems even on uneventful day. After ONE day - it was completely ignored and now a inside joke. These days there are some wards with a large poster on the corkboard with a traffic light on it, due to the high rotation of staff - NO ONE knows what it is. Apparently staff were paid to get trained on this thing.
Sad part is, I have many more examples.
My bosses are to lazy to fire people for being lazy
my boss is just too lazy to actually do work.
I haven't seen my boss for weeks
Classic management consulting bullshit
OMG yes, you look at the "Executive" section of The Age and there is article after article from waste of space "consultants" who have a book, or a business model, to push so they write these "articles" that are long on rhetoric and short on actual bottom line improvements.
One of them was looking at you watching other people do nothing so they put you on the list.
I thought about it and to me it was true, I work at a telco and I can pick five people (I can even see them right now) who can be made redundant.
No you just listed 5 people at your work that don't offer any VALUE to YOUR JOB and/or you don't deal with. This doesn't mean the work they do isn't important and also doesn't mean they don't do work. Its just to you, they offer no value.
That said, yes some places have a lot of fat around but don't always assume everyone is lazy.
I can even see them right now
The irony is you are at work, surfing the web reading news sites and posting to ozbargain…… on works time.
This post got shades of this gem.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/286684
Any aspirations to fill in with managerial role if you aren't yet in it OP?
If so feel free to suggest things like in that forum post. Things like less personal effects on your desks to improve efficiency by removing distraction. Six sigma trimming the fat.
We're going through that one,
less personal effects on your desks
New HQ has no desk allocations open plan and open level access, you work where you need to be or want to be, I'm going to be voting for home. You're life has to fit in a box which you slide into a locker at the end of the day, contains your PC each station has a USBC Dock so you plug into the dock where you're working and it auto configs everything, has a tray for stationary and besides that not much else. having a better go at the paperless office so no drawers and cupboards with piles of documents.
3 years and majority of people still haven't worked out how to use a surface, they treat it as a desktop use the pen as an attachment should their fingers be too big to push a button thats too small
No quiet rooms for when you need to get something done in peace and quiet, we have a large library. No talking No Phones while your in there, only in dire straits can you basically ask someone to leave the floor for a discussion.
Swipe cards are gone, swipe hand through fingerprint reader to gain access, same with private meeting rooms you can only get in if you're on the list which is a fingerprint reader for access
It's going to be fun
They are making up for the lack of personal things with a games and rec floor Arcade machines, consoles projecting onto large screens for multi player games whole teams can play something like Mario Kart in a LAN tournament, Table tennis bean bags and other toys.
What if there are only six people working in that department?