[AMA] Ex-Casino Games Dealer and Supervisor - So Get The Questions Ready

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  Cluster on 20/02/2018 - 19:58

  +2

  I was playing poker at Adelaide casino once when a player asked a long time dealer 'So how do you win money at a casino?'

  The dealer responded very bluntly: "I tell my friends, Don't Play!" Best advice I have ever heard.

  Every game is stacked against you. Play long enough and you will lose. Poker? Sure, there's an element of skill, but from what I have seen the tight players get slaughtered by the looser better players, the drunk idiots lose the lot, while everyone else trades bad beats with one another. The house always wins there too.

  I have yet to see someone have fun on a pokie machine. They sit there, emotionless, eyes glazed over, pressing that button every few seconds like a hamster trying to get a food treat. If they win they reach down and pick up the coins without any emotion, then feed them into the machine. Repeat until the player has nothing left. Back again tomorrow for the time of their life!

  Western Australians are smart cookies to have never legalized pokies in their bars and clubs.

  • 

    pegaxs on 20/02/2018 - 21:07

    +3

    "I tell my friends, Don't Play!"

    OMG! That is exactly what I tell them. There has to be some copyright law being broken here??? :D

    I say to people, you cant win. Just look at the building and the lights and the yadda, yadda. Winners don’t pay for that. Losers do. I then tell them, "Go there. Go in and have fun, but be prepared to lose. Just make sure you don’t spend what you cant afford and make the most of it. Laugh, have a good time and soak in the atmosphere… Be entertained. Don’t go in to win."

    That way, every visit is a win.

    And yes, everything you said about pokies is spot on. It just makes people mindless Zombies.

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  skywards on 20/02/2018 - 20:23

  +5

  Great thread! Thanks for posting 👍

  • 

    pegaxs on 20/02/2018 - 21:02

    +10

    Believe me, the pleasure has been all mine in being able to share my story with such a great bunch of people. I didn’t expect to get this much interested, so I am humbled by all of this. I just hope I am doing my story and that of other dealers some justice :)

    So, no, thank you for taking an interest.

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    kingmw on 20/02/2018 - 21:33

    Awesome thread and always interested in how the world works!

    No questions for you as fortunately I don't go to casinos (to gamble) at all.

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      pegaxs on 20/02/2018 - 21:56

      My pleasure. Glad you like the thread.

      I do hope that one day you take what you have learned and read here and do find your way to a casino and admire it for what it is. Not everything about a casino is evil. They can be a fascinating place if you know that it can bite :)

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  Cusack on 20/02/2018 - 22:05

  There are techniques out there that can work out roughly where a ball in roulette can land. It involves counting and calculating the speed in your head. Have you heard or seen this in action? Or think its possible to do?

  • 

    pegaxs on 20/02/2018 - 22:39

    +2

    Have heard of them. Have studied them. Concluded that they are bullshit. If it was do-able, it would be in the realms of card counting and people would be doing it if it was proven to work.

    There is a good read on the internet about a team that did this with computer and lasers to track everything and a tapper on the guys leg. Took the casino for millions. Look it up. I think it was The Ritz Casino in London??

    • 

      Cluster on 20/02/2018 - 23:12

      +3

      Cheating on roulette using computers is the reason why dealers demand people with mobile phones step well back from the roulette wheel. Most casinos now use continuous shufflers for blackjack. Any technique you read about is old and there are good countermeasures against it. Anything effective today is something you won't read about.

      • 

        pegaxs on 20/02/2018 - 23:25

        Exactly. Well said, Cluster.

        Cheers for the valuable input.

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  WillKillfor5Cents on 20/02/2018 - 22:11

  +1

  Do you see a lot of underground prostitution happening like in other parts of the world in the Casino? I did not see it blatantly evident in Australia.

  But I suspect few of the ladies of the evening there are quite suspicious.

  Not so much in the main gaming floor, but in some of the members only room. Few regulars, rarely bet, very touchy feely with other patrons, skimpy clothing… Or maybe they are just flirtatious? ;S

  Any goss on this one?

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    pegaxs on 20/02/2018 - 22:48

    Do you see a lot of underground prostitution

    Yes. A lot of it. You know who the "working girls" are. Some used it as a place to ply their trade, some used it as a meeting point for clients, but yes, it was very much alive and well. If we saw obvious solicitation, we were obliged to mention it to the supervisor.

    As for the types in the "higher limit" areas, these were more the flirtatious types. They just wanted someone to cover their bets for them. Some acted as proxies for working girls. Some would outright go to the bathroom and service clients. Saw a few banned for doing that! Yuck!

    • 

      outlander on 21/02/2018 - 02:56

      Do you have an 'eye' for them now? My asian friend pointed out a few prostitutes, but they weren't in the casino, they were in galactic circus!
      Never would have known it myself, but she seemed pretty confident about it.

      • 

        Cusack on 21/02/2018 - 07:18

        +3

        I'm trying to understand why you had to point out your friend was 'Asian' ?

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 09:25

        +5

        @outlander:

        Why would I have an eye for them now? It's not something I generally have the need to rely on, my ability to sift through who are potential hookers.

        but she seemed pretty confident about it.

        Riiiight… Were they really pro's? Or where they just better dressed than your friend?? ;)
        "OMG! Look at her! She is dressed like a hoe. I'm pretty sure she's a hoe."

        @Cusack:

        I was wondering that too, like if they have a better honed "prostitute radar" than Anglo?

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  danger163 on 20/02/2018 - 22:16

  Have you ever dealt a hand as dealer to any of your family or friends?

  • 

    pegaxs on 20/02/2018 - 22:43

    +3

    Hahaha… I'm not falling for that! ;)

    And the short answer is no. Not worth my job. If you get caught dealing to friends and family, It can cost you your job. Simple as that.

    Long answer is, you get to know a lot of the regular players, and in an area like the poker room, everyone knows everyone really well and you become good friends and almost a de-facto family. So I guess, in the lighter sense of the word, yes, I have dealt to many people that I would go on to consider as friends. :)

    • 

      danger163 on 21/02/2018 - 08:02

      Yes, it's not worth the job. How would management know if he is a friend of yours? Is there any surveillance on dealers outside casino if in doubt?

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 09:30

        As I said, not worth the risk. It may not be easy to find out, and sure, if you wanted to do it, go ahead, chances of being caught are slim, but, a lot of people in surveillance are ex-dealers, and the chances are it may be one of your old dealer buddies watching you and they might know you, your family and/or your friends. It may be another dealer that know and dobs you in. It may be a pit boss walking past and they know.

        Just not worth the risk.

      • 

        danger163 on 21/02/2018 - 11:50

        +1

        @pegaxs: cool. Thanks for AMA. One of the best in recent times. Good luck to you!

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  positEV on 21/02/2018 - 01:02

  Did you ever work in the VIP - Gold/Platinum Rooms?

  If so, did you ever ask people what they did for a living? And what about young adults 18-22 year olds you saw in there, did you ever wonder how they get into those VIP rooms?

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    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 09:49

    Did you ever work in the VIP - Gold/Platinum Rooms?

    Yes, on many occasions. Spent quite a large chunk of my time dealing and supervising in high limit and premium areas.

    did you ever ask people what they did for a living

    I didnt go out of my way to ask people. I was there to deal and entertain. If it came up in conversation, I would ask about it, but more from a conversation fuel perspective, rather than I actually gave a crap.

    you ever wonder how they get into those VIP rooms

    Not really. It was either mum and dad's money or they were playing with money they didn’t have and just racking up the credit cards. It wasn't my business to ask or know where people got their money. It was my job to take the cash and put it in the drop box.

    But yes, sometimes the curiosity was there…

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  [Deactivated] on 21/02/2018 - 01:54

  -5

  So you're at a table and a player clutches their chest and collapses in front of you while screaming OMG i'm dying!!!

  Are the instructions:

  1. Let them die while keeping an eye on all the chips on the table and that quiet guy to the left.

  2. Pull that lever under the table while everyone is distracted.

  3. Leap forward and start mouth-mouth resuscitation while delivering heart palpitations.

  4. Yell You're going to die haha!!!

  5. Yawn and check your phone for messages.

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 10:00

    +3

    1: no.
    2: no.
    3: no.
    4: no.
    5: no.

    Steps would be.
    1: hit the security duress button.
    2: secure your float.
    3: yell for a supervisor.
    4: provide information.
    5: wait until you are relieved.
    6: go see the pit boss.
    7: fill out paperwork.

    I know that your attempt here was to be amusing, or you have some idea in your head that dealers are uncaring machines. I can tell you from personal, first hand experience of the exact thing you have mentioned here, that even someone as heartless as I am, it was still a shocking experience. In reality, as a dealer, there is not much you can do in these situations, and security are usually only a few steps away at any one time.

    It's a horrible thing to have happen right in front of you and I would not wish it on anyone.

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 21/02/2018 - 15:56

      -5

      I have a family member who worked as a Croupier at Crown Casino years ago, and the procedural rules she related were more in accordance with (1).

      The fact is someone has to keep track of what's going on with the table as such circumstances can be staged and precede an attempted fraud.

      Actually speaking of being heartless, the longer she worked there, the more heartless she became. Casino's do things to people, and it's not a good thing.

      Of course it's funny.
      I'm always funny.
      Carnage can be funny.
      Like an elephant crushing a fat chick to death - that's funny.
      I'm a rampaging funny factory ffs.

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 16:12

        Well, I cant speak for anyone else other than myself and my experience, and I'm telling you, No.:1 on your list is wrong.

        As a dealer, your first action is to secure the float and gaming equipment (ie: cards). Players chips are their own responsibility. So no dealer would give a flying fudgsicle about chips on the lay out, or some shifty prick in the corner if there was an emergency.

        In an emergency, secure cards/gear/float.

        Casino's do things to people, and it's not a good thing.

        The only correct statement you have made thus far in this thread.

        Out of everyone else on here asking questions, you are the only one that is carrying on like a tool.

        So, consider yourself blocked.

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 21/02/2018 - 16:22

        -8

        @pegaxs:

        Oh the hostility!
        But no surprise - anyone prepared to work in the morally bankrupt field of gambling usually has more than a few issues.

        You've also got issues with logic - you say you can only speak from your experience, then rubbish a first-hand account i have from someone else (and therefore obviously outside your experience). Your experience does not make you a guru bro…

        I hear from folk like you all the time.
        Yeah, prepared to work for the devil, and later claim some kind of epiphany about how bad it all was and how you didn't realise till now. A bit like that band that was playing during the Vegas shootings - oh we didn't really understand the problem with gun culture until we got shot up. Yeah, right.

        I'm not the tool, and you don't have the authority to 'block' anyone champ.
        Must be the ongoing power rush you got accustomed to as folk blew all their money at your table.

        But don't worry - you got your cut, that's the main thing…

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  danger163 on 21/02/2018 - 07:11

  I was at star once, there is this lady dealer having very bad breath.. I can't with stand her breath while playing. Add to that she was behaving as an elf and cracking all stupid jokes which are not funny at all. So the question is there, is there any importance to hygiene while selecting for job?

  • 

    John Kimble on 21/02/2018 - 10:03

    Wouldn't that be for 99% of jobs?

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 10:06

    +2

    Oh good lord! And yes, there are minimum hygiene standards that we must adhere to. Brushing your teeth is one of them.

    But, the problem is, when you're running a business where you have a really high staff turn over rate, sometimes, when picking are slim, you have to take what you could get. When I got my job, there was a glut of people wanting the job, so they could afford to be picky. By the time i left, they were losing more dealers a month than they could train. So they would employ anyone with a heartbeat…

    Next time, just be polite, stand up, move to the other end of the pit, call the supervisor over and let the supervisor know of your complaint. Things can't be fixed if people don’t know about them…

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  know001 on 21/02/2018 - 08:22

  Loving the thread.
  I know this is probably going to be hard to answer but what would be your best guess at how much the casino you worked at turns over a night?

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 09:44

    how much the casino turns over a night?

    Hold on, turns over? or profits/(loss)? They are two different things…

    Either way, I don't know! :D

    Lets just say… "a lot". and leave it at that.

  • 

    od810 on 21/02/2018 - 10:27

    +1

    I remember someone said the Poker tables rake about 1mil/week (that was figure from 6 years ago). And I assume Poker is just a tiny tiny section of Crown Casino. If you want to know the details, i assume you can read the Crown's annual report.

    • 

      pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 11:51

      Poker tables rake about 1mil/week

      I was never privy to that kind of information, but simple maths would tell you that that is an utter load of bullshit. Even during the busiest time of the year, during big tournament time with nearly every table going 24/7, I still don’t think that $1m/week is even close to doable.

      • 

        od810 on 21/02/2018 - 11:56

        I thought it would be possible, $300/hour * 15hour/day * 7 * 30 tables would give ~1mil?

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 12:07

        @od810:

        Not all tables are raked $300/h, not all tables would be opened.

        The maths is there, so it may be possible. As I said, I worked in poker for 6+ years and I never once saw a daily figures sheet, so I can not categorically confirm or deny how much it made per week…

      • 

        know001 on 21/02/2018 - 18:42

        @pegaxs:

        I went with turnover rather than profit, as I thought you might at least be able to have a ballpark guess.
        I know profit would be hard not know wages, power costs, blah blah.

        As you seemed to have worked different tables/games and different levels like high roller etc I was hoping you may be able to kind of guess based upon an average table times number of tables.
        Also understand any one night could be different if a few high rollers are in town playing $10k hands.

        Just kind of curious about what order of magnitude ot would be like 1, 10 or 100mill a night turnover.

        Thanks

        edit: just read the other comment saying check the annual report. LOL should've thought of that

      • 

        know001 on 21/02/2018 - 18:54

        +2

        @know001:
        To answer my own question for anyone else interested Crown Melb Gaming revenue (turnover) for 2017 was near enough to $2B
        Earnings before Tax (EBITDA) was $580M

        So rough numbers they turnover about $5M and make about $1.5M a night after costs

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 19:22

        +1

        @know001:

        This poker part is mainly for od810;
        Turn over in a poker room is hard, because the money on the tables is player v's player. It would be cage buy-ins v's rake??? even that's not accurate, as people can buy chips anywhere and take them to poker…

        Ball park guess? I can do that… Per week, I would have to estimate poker to be closer to $250k in slow times, maybe up to $500~$750K during peak tournament times… my ball park, guesstimation.

        And on any of the bigger games, the size of the pot is irrelevant. They didn't rake big games. They were purely charged an hourly rate, and these types of games only lasted a few hours at most.

        For know001;
        As for the rest of the casino… Holy shit, Dude. I cant even begin to have a guess. We had to account the float every hour for win/loss/turnover, but that doesn’t tell me much over the whole casino operation… pull a random number out of the air between $1 and $100,000,000???

        Or, you know, check the annual report??? LOL! :D

        (So for any casino legal team reading this and thinking I'm giving away secret inside data, I'm not, I have no 'effin clue and just threw some numbers out there… If I get a legal notice, I'll know I was close. ;)

        edit:

        So rough numbers they turnover about $5M and make about $1.5M a night after costs

        Or you know… there is that… :D

      • 

        kingmw on 21/02/2018 - 20:11

        @know001: Did this exclude hotel, restaurant and retail side of things?

      • 

        know001 on 21/02/2018 - 21:20

        @kingmw:
        I think so.
        I pulled the number from the annual report for crown resorts, and used the entry on page 38 for Crown Melb.

        Later in the report it does break it down to
        Main Floor Gaming - $1182M
        VIP Play - $340M
        Wagering and other - $471M

        Given they also list their interests in CrownBet and Betfair separately I'm not sure what the last segment actually relates to, or the breakdown of how much is "other".
        Maybe it's more strictly accurate to just use the first two segments.
        This would bring the turnover number to
        4.17M per night

        Last year's (2016) numbers were higher though and was $5M a night based on the same 2 segments.

        So still reasonably accurate.

        Edit: The slide presentation lists the 3rd segment as "Non-gaming" so yes that should be excluded if just talking about the gambling income.
        Also, wow! they make 830k a night on rooms and restaurants.

        For comparison Crown Perth turns over $1.6M gambling and 668k profit a night

  • 

    kingmw on 21/02/2018 - 20:08

    Don't they do annual reports for Crown casino etc? You can just average it out over 365 days…

    Don't worry, answered above! Thanks

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  goms on 21/02/2018 - 08:50

  Edit: already asked.

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  logistics on 21/02/2018 - 11:14

  Thanks for the interesting topic :)

  What game(s) would you recommend to people who come in once in a blue moon?

  Gambling being a secondary thought, willing to spend $50-$100 and not expecting to win.

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 11:39

    +1

    Thanks for the interesting topic

    My pleasure. Glad so many people found it interesting enough.

    As for best bang for buck, I would say stick with crowd favourites, things like Big Wheel, Sic-Bo or other cheaper side games. Roulette can be fun and cheap if you just place outside bets, ie: red/black, odd/even, big/small… Go for these games if the place is excited and people are playing them.

    $100 will not last if you start jamming it into Blackjack, Baccarat, inside bets on Roulette or things like that.

    If you really want to make it last, go into the casino and just stand around and marvel at the people playing, the excitement and the action. Take your $100 outside to the cinema and treat yourself to a gold class movie and some drinks.

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  p2015 on 21/02/2018 - 11:44

  +3

  Thank you for doing this AMA. This was incredibly intriguing and interesting to read.

  I have always been under the impression that dealers make a decent amount, but I was clueless about the emotional turmoil in the background. You also write very eloquently and able to express your knowledge in a meaningful way. Most important of all, after all these years, you have not sunk, but stayed from what I can see a relatively healthy mindset. That means a lot to me.

  Good stuff. Thank you.

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 12:03

    +3

    The pleasure has been all mine. It really has been a trip down nostalgia road for me, and 99.9% of the people asking questions have been great. So it should be me thanking everyone else.

    And I will say, as a dealer, I certainly made decent money. It's good money for what is essentially playing board games with other people. The casino bank rolls you and you just play, chat, have a good time. Money for jam…

    BUT! And there's always a but, the mental toll can wear on you. Night shift, not sleeping, rotating shifts, weekends, no holidays, poor eating, not to mention the constant barrage of pissed off, down on their luck punters gnawing at you incessantly and managers who were on your case, targets to meet. The list goes on…

    I will admit that, even as strong minded as I am, there were times I even doubted my own ability to stay sane. You see so much despair and heart break and get to a point where you want to help everyone, but you cant. If anything, I don't necessarily think I became numb, but maybe more resilient and able to cope with what I had to do. I know a lot of friends who didn't cope and are still messed up today because of it.

    • 

      kingmw on 21/02/2018 - 20:18

      My question asked below already.

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  dust on 21/02/2018 - 14:50

  Thanks for doing the AMA, I'm really enjoying your answers. I've got a question regarding your KPIs. As a dealer, what are you measured against? Is the amount of money turned over at your table measured? Are you measured based on your table's profit/loss?

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 15:41

    Cheers! Glad to know that people are enjoying it.

    As for KPI's, as a dealer, you don’t have a KPI. There was another name for it, but it was basically a quarterly employee review. If I can remember what they were called, I will let you know. (Just remembered it, I am sure it was called a PMS?? Performance Management System/Scheme???)

    Basically you were judged on 4 or 5 categories.
    Skills - How well you deal the game and the speed at which you deal.
    Knowledge - Of the games and rules and the casino in general
    Appearance - Are you neat and tidy and punctual?
    Customer Service - How do you interact with players and staff?
    Maybe one more??

    The thing that most people think is that dealers are on some sort of commission or budget. They aren't. What people don’t realise is that dealers have absolutely no input into any game to affect its outcome. We don’t get to decide. Everything we do is fix by SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures). As a dealer, you have no control, what so ever, over if a table makes a profit or makes a loss. You also have no control over who and how many people decide to play at your table. So one thing we were never measured off was any tables profit or loss, as that would be unfair. What you could say though, is you were judged in your game pacing. You can deal too fast or too slow, a good dealer knew how to read their players and pace to that, and I guess that loosely ties into profit/loss…

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  dimes on 21/02/2018 - 15:31

  Thanks for this thread, as an ex-gambler (still play from time to time, but nowhere like I used to) I have soooo many questions for you haha.

  1. Are dealers allowed to go out with customers? I fell for a female dealer once, over time we would talk about anything and everything, felt like I got the vibe she was maybe interested, but when I asked her out she said she was busy. Broke my heart to this day.

  2. Putting aside the house edge, is it possible the games are rigged at all? I've seen some pretty amazing stuff in my time. Once a guy was betting $500 on red at roulette, it landed on black, so he switched his bet to black next and it landed on red, and this kept happening for like 10 more spins until he walked away losing everything.

  3. Do you prefer players to talk to you or not while playing?

  4. How does casino surveillance recognise people who have no memberships with them? I have never had a membership, but I always wondered every time I go in does security or surveillance say "there's that guy who plays roulette again"

  5. Does the pit boss care if people win or lose? From my experience dealers seem indifferent but pit bosses are always keeping a tab. I even heard one pit boss say he was happy someone lost.

  6. Would it be possible to aim for very small, but frequent, wins? For example I use $1000 to win $10 and leave, then come back to do it another day etc.

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 16:00

    +3

    It's a pleasure to respond to so many great questions from people.

    Anyway, onto your questions…
    1: Go out, as in date? It's no problem, and there was no firm rule against it, but once you started dating, she could no longer deal to you. And put it this way, most girls I worked with got hit on every hour of their shift. It wasn’t personal or "the rules", she was probably just over it, not you in particular. And remember, dealers are paid to give people the illusion of what ever it is to keep them coming back.

    2: No games are rigged that I ever saw. Could you imagine the massive blow out in the media if it was found out? It's not worth the free fall damage to the casinos stock prices. It's not worth losing their gaming license over. So, in my time there, I would say no. And they don't need to cheat, because, you guessed it… "house edge".

    3: I am a very chatty person. I love when players wanted to chat. I am a dealer, but I also have to be the entertainer. A table, dealing heads up BJ to some sour, disgruntled punter is never fun. Now, a table full of chatty, laughing Japanese school girls, I'll remember that for a long time.

    4: Don't know. Never worked in surveillance. And you don’t have to be a member to be a pest/cheater/nuisance… If you make an arsehole out of yourself often enough, everyone will know who you are.

    5: Nope. It's not their money either. They are not on commission. But pit bosses have the roll of diffusing "I want to speak to your manager!" complaints. They get pretty pissy if it has been escalated from the dealer, to a supervisor and hasn’t been handled before it gets to them. It would have been more of a case that that player was making everyone's life miserable and hard, so when they lost, they left and the pit boss said what they said as karma, more so than profit/loss stats. Still, pretty poor form if you heard a pit boss say that in the pit.

    6: No. If you could make small but consistent wins, everyone would be doing it and the casino would go broke. I spent years dealing there, and if I would go into the casino and make frequent wins, I wouldn’t be doing what I do now for a job ;)

    • 

      kingmw on 21/02/2018 - 20:25

      6) I guess the problem is that people usually don't know when to stop playing. Also the odds are always towards the casino is most games so if you play long enough the casino will always win more than they lose. End of the day it is just maths and they can change the rules to improve their overall odds (Roulette with 00 vs Roulette without)

    • 

      dimes on 21/02/2018 - 23:02

      thanks! I guess as a follow up to question 1, have you ever known any dealers who went out on a date with a patron?
      I'm pretty sure the dealer I fancied wasn't just doing it to get me to come back, because she actually told me a few times she wanted me to stop gambling.

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 23:16

        +1

        known any dealers who went out on a date with a patron?

        Know them? I was one! Something about older Asian ladies and tall young white guys and offering to buy them Yum Cha if the ladies won lots. And I LOVED free Yum Cha!.. Lol.

        I know dealers that ended up marrying punters! Good Lord! What were they thinking?

      • 

        Tech and cars on 22/02/2018 - 09:40

        +1

        @pegaxs:

        Actually laughed out loud at this!

        Thanks for the AMA. Very eloquent responses :)

    • 

      OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 11:52

      With House Edge of course they don't need to cheat…. but I fully believe there are rigged games. Especially roulette. I've seen the ball fly off the table while slowing down. See it often jump to an adjacent number after almost settling. I just don't believe it's how the ball is spun.
      And if they got caught yeah sure massive media blowout? I don't know but i'd imagine there'd be alot of back slapping going on that could take care of that.

      • 

        pegaxs on 22/02/2018 - 12:42

        but I fully believe there are rigged games. Especially roulette.

        I have seen many many a Roulette wheel pulled apart for servicing, and I can say, from first hand experience, there is nothing about them that would do what you are asking. For this to work, the wheel would need to know what the table was doing. The dealers wouldnt control it, because most dealers liked giving away the casino's money. A winning table is a happy table.

        My other favourite "myth" was that there were sensors under the numbers on Roulette layouts, so the wheel knew where most of the money was placed. This is also garbage, because I have seen layouts being replaced. There is nothing under them either.

      • 

        OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 13:41

        -2

        @pegaxs: I'm not asking, I've seen it happen in front of my own eyes where science can't explain what just happened. Lets say some games are rigged, for interests sake, do you think a floor employee or even pit manager would know this? No effing way in hell!!! If they were caught they'd be torn to shreds, like you say. Next to nobody would truly know how it all works.

        A sensor under the numbers, a simple program using one of the billion cameras watching the gaming floors could do the same thing.
        I also wouldn't put it past casino's to have fake winning players, that are basically paid to play and organised to win.
        It's a shady as fcuk industry with the whole focus being money. They would have tried everything under the sun to maximize profits.
        You've seen a machine get serviced, big whoop…. you'd have no idea about genius inventions that I have no doubt they could hide to the untrained eye.

        I mean come on, how does a ball be almost close to stopping and then fly off the table!? Rigged AF! That's how.

      • 

        John Kimble on 22/02/2018 - 13:45

        +1

        @OneMoreTune: Science can't explain it? Then are you saying the casino is using supernatural methods to cheat?!

        Paying fake players?

        The rules of the game are "rigged" from the get go. That's about it mate. They make plenty of money without having to resort to cheating I reckon.

        You are bananas.

        And it was me that negged you.

      • 

        OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 13:56

        @John Kimble: Yes John, that's exactly what I'm saying. They do secret blood sacrifices upstairs, haven't you noticed there are no goats around? Have you ever seen Lyon in a casino? Well, there you go.

      • 

        pegaxs on 22/02/2018 - 13:59

        @OneMoreTune:

        I'm not asking, I've seen it happen

        I'm not going to debate it. In the casino I worked in, this simply isn’t true. I could explain it a multiple of different ways on why it just simply isn’t true in this day and age, but you seem unwilling to to even listen to the reasons I could give. You obviously had a bad experience at a casino and you saw what you wanted to see. Nothing I say will change your mind, so there is no point even trying.

        All I can say is that what you are suggesting is infeasible at best, as the pure cost, man power and timing to pull it all off just would not exist in a large casino.

        Casino games are inherently tilted towards the house winning more often than not. They don’t need to cheat. Games are being developed and changed all the time to increase house edge. I recently saw a triple 0 roulette wheel. The house edge on that is staggering (somewhere in the vicinity of 8.5%). There was a BJ table that called a dealer 22 a stand-off and paid 6:5 or even money on a blackjack. Pontoon has all the 10's removed from the decks.

        And you think the casino needs Roulette cheat systems…

        I have said what I am going to say. If you want to ask reasonable questions or spark a reasonable debate, I am open to talking it out, but I wont respond any further to irrational, conspiracy theory rhetoric.

      • 

        psychomagic on 22/02/2018 - 14:35

        +1

        @OneMoreTune:
        Ok lets talk about ball behaviour. As far as I am aware there are at least 3 different materials for balls and each behave differently.

        Ivory/ivorine - really unpredictable and jumps around like crazy - usually cream
        Teflon - synthetic and much more predictable and consistent - usually white
        Metallic or metallic core - usually for automated machines (avoided otherwise)

        Ivory balls in particular can have the behaviour you described as they are often not perfectly round and have inconsistent centre of gravity. They also wear. They are not around much now but ivorine whilst synthetic tries to imitate ivory except for the wear.

        More about balls here http://www.rouletteresearch.com/Publications/PDF_Documents/R…

      • 

        OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 14:36

        @pegaxs: Yes of course, I understand full well how house set to win… I'm not too shabby at maths. Probably a reason why you don't many two up rings around these days?

        I didn't mean to come off rude or as though I'm not listening, apologies. I accept your view and how you think I'm probably bonkers, no worries. Most people would.
        Though, you are way off the mark because I wasn't betting a cent when I saw what I saw. We all looked around at each other wondering how it happened.

        Infeasible? To win more money? Pure cost and manpower to have a device or something to influence where the ball lands? If anything I think it would be cheap and involve little to no manpower at all.
        Of coooourrrse they don't neeeeed to cheat! Everyone knows that. I wouldn't dare to think they wouldn't try though.

        Where do you draw the line on what they WOULD try and what they WOULDN'T?
        Pretty sure I only just read about pokies being turned off so they reset overnight? Would you call that cheating?

        Anyway, I'll leave it alone. In a forum like this I'll be reamed from every corner, I'll never doubt what I saw though.
        Thanks for the responses anyway. It's been an interesting read!

      • 

        OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 14:50

        @psychomagic: Nice, will have a read when I get a moment.

      • 

        pegaxs on 22/02/2018 - 14:54

        @OneMoreTune:

        Probably a reason why you don't many two up rings

        Two-up is too labour intensive and takes up too much floor space for too little return. It's fun as a novelty once a year at Anzac Day time, but that's about it.

        you are way off the mark… I saw what I saw.

        The thing is, I have personally dealt Roulette and had the ball come out of the wheel, many times. It isn’t a "manipulation" thing, it's a "physics" thing. No casino secret system intervention, just good old fashioned physics. I could explain it (with "science"), but you would be quick to dismiss it. as @psychomagic said above, Ivorine balls are hard, like marbles, and ping around a lot and are prone to bouncing out. Teflon/Acetyl balls are quite soft and have a very dead weighting to them when falling into the wheel.

        Infeasible? To win more money?

        Yes. Read my comment above re: setting up, time, cost, timing, staffing, risk of getting caught manipulating games…

        Where do you draw the line on what they WOULD try and what they WOULDN'T?

        Would: adjusting rules or procedures to manipulate odds.
        Wouldn't: mechanical systems that interfere with the games results.

        read about pokies being turned off so they reset overnight.

        I don’t do pokies. I don't touch pokies. I don’t speak for pokies. I have no clue about pokie functions.

      • 

        OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 15:03

        @pegaxs: Yeah yeah yeah… physics. If the ball was moving faster and the wheel was spinning faster I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Seen it before, not like this though. Had to be seen. Just like I would be too quick to dismiss your explanation you are quick to dismiss any foul play. Fair enough, you weren't there and didn't see it happen. All good!

        PS. If you have any kids, you've definitely played pokies!

      • 

        pegaxs on 22/02/2018 - 15:15

        @OneMoreTune:

        Re:

        but I wont respond any further to irrational, conspiracy theory rhetoric.

        PS: Never said I have never "played" pokies. But it has nothing to do with whether or not I have children. My daughter is 6 years old. Last time I touched a pokie machine was before I stated at the casino, and that was back in 2003. More than 15 years ago.

      • 

        OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 15:22

        +1

        @pegaxs: Whooooooosh!

• 

  mrtenacious on 21/02/2018 - 16:23

  Really enjoying reading this thread as a casual low stakes gambler you've offered real interesting insight.
  Couple of questions feel free to let me know if these have been answered already in other question and I'll re-read.
  1. When you've been trained in all or majority of games is each shift somewhere different or is it more likely you'll be for eg dealing blackjack the whole month and did u get a preference to stay in one game longer?
  2. Hardest table game to keep up with? (Particular variation of poker?)
  3. Did you ever get offered to or want to move up in gaming whether it be a pit boss or something else? How long do they want you dealing before they'd consider you for promotion? Cheers.

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 18:44

    +3

    Thanks! If you're reading it and enjoying it, then it's all been worth it. Onto your questions!!

    1: I will say yes, and I will say no. It all depends on your coding. If you are coded main floor, you could be anywhere from one shift to the next. If you are coded premium, there are a limited number of pits and you usually find yourself working in the same areas. If you are coded high limit/salons, you will find you are exclusively dealing in those areas and very limited to where you spend your time. And as for preference, not really. But in saying that, the change up was nice and I don’t think I really cared where I ended up. I some dealers HATED certain games and never wanted to deal them. BJ would have to be the worst to deal because of the stress it puts on your body. That, and most BJ players are "experts", which translates to "annoying tossbags."

    2:Pot Limit Omaha HiLo. By far the most mentally intensive game I have dealt. Between that and some variations of 7 Card Stud, like HiLo and Lowball. There is so much going on. Tracking the pot, checking the cards, reading the play, tracking the play, reading the board/hand and being able to inform a player of exactly what was going on at any random given moment. Pot Limit ANYTHING! FML! But when you were good at it and players requested that you deal it, that was validation that the hard work was worth it.

    3: Yes. A lot. I don’t want to sound like I am pissing in my own pocket, but a lot of people liked working with/for me. I was very job, player and staff focused. I was reliable and trusted. Bosses knew that I could handle things myself and that I got stuff done. The reason I didn’t move up was purely based on money and respect. Moving up to the next phase meant I went salary, lost an RDO and had less job security and by the end of my tenure, they were giving away the positions to people that were lower down the chain, who had no experience, because they were cheaper to hire. I lost respect for the higher positions when my new bosses knew less than I did.

    • 

      od810 on 21/02/2018 - 19:19

      Casually raised "POT" and let the dealer figure out :P. I hardly saw any PLO8 back then, maybe my stake was too low. Mixed games would be mentally intensive as well

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 19:45

        "Pot?"

        "um…. um… can you put the call out first… um, um… the pots $47???, $34 more to complete… I think??"

        You know, just thinking about this is giving me bad PTSD flashbacks. :P

        Good rule of thumb is if small blind is 1/2 big blind (ie: $10/$20), is first player pots, it's 5x small blind on top of their called portion. Add big blind to this for every call until someone Pot!'s.

        SB $10, BB $20, UTG pots, its call the BB, put out 5x small blind…

        If it's a fudged up blind, like say $5 ante, $15/25… work out the first pot before you sit down at the God damn table!! A good dealer would work this out before they even sat down. If everyone just calls, you add BB for every caller until someone raises pot…

        9 players, $45 ante, + SB $15, + BB 25, plus called $25 = how much more they can bet ($110 more or $135 total)

        Mixed games would be mentally intensive as well

        H.O.R.S.E… OMFG! That would keep a dealer on their toes. Hold 'em, Omaha, Razz, 7 Stud, 7 Stud - Eight qualifier (HiLo)… Dealing Razz, 7S and 7SE off the back of each other, yikes! That was tough.

• 

  thriftybunny on 21/02/2018 - 17:07

  Thanks for doing ama, not sure if someone's already asked but why do they rotate/change dealers so frequently?

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 18:51

    +1

    No problem. I’m enjoying this AMA as much as everyone else seems to be.

    And the reason (already answered: No.2 here) is basically, dealers need a break. They usually don't go far though, most of the time, it's on a break and back to the table next to the one they were just on.

    The other reason we go to the next table is, if a dealer has an arsehole customer, it rotates them out. No one should have to put up with dealing to the same arsehole for 8 hours…

    For all you tin hat wearing conspiracy guys… It has NOTHING to do with a dealer losing. I have lost a lot before as a dealer, and they still wouldn’t replace me. They might replace a losing dealer though if that dealer is struggling to keep up with a massive "stuck in zero section" game of Roulette… But only for that reason, NOT because the casino is losing.

    • 

      kingmw on 21/02/2018 - 20:32

      Might be because it might encourage these "winners" to come back and gamble more.

• 

  bob smith on 21/02/2018 - 17:24

  Are there secret rooms where security takes cheating players and beats them up?

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 18:58

    +4

    Yes!, It's stainless steel, so the blood washes off easier. And there is a drain hole in the floor. And weirdly enough, there are no cameras in there…

    But seriously, yes. The casino has "holding rooms", NOT beat up rooms. If they find people cheating/stealing/drunk/arseholery/etc, then they will put them in a holding room until the police/ambo/fire/chaplain/their mum comes to deal with them. It's quote boring, because they just look like standard interview rooms.

• 

  tradiesunited on 21/02/2018 - 18:53

  -1

  Ex-casio dealer? soo many Casio watch deals lately I misread the title ahahah! Who did this too?

• 

  od810 on 21/02/2018 - 21:05

  I guess I already touched a few points but I still want to ask what are the most annoying things that cause dealers PTSD?

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 22:26

    Pot!… ;)

    That kissing noise (used to call a supervisor over a lot of noise). If I hear anything like it, for whatever reason, it still gets my attention.

    Handling cash. I still cant handle cash like pre-casino days. I always have to count it 10 times, count it a certain way, show clean hands. I still have times where I can't take cash directly off people or hand it directly to them. It has to be sat on the counter top for me to touch it.

    Walking out of the house and thinking "FK! I forgot my ID…" Then realising I don’t need it. Leaving house ritual was "Keys, phone, wallet ID…" I cant shake that after 5 years out of the casino.

    Watching TV shows that have anything casino related and sitting there picking it to pieces… It could be a movie about blue aliens sucking brains, and I'll be pissed off that the casino scene was bullshit.

    When I go to a casino, just to play, I want to strangle dealers that are garbage and pull them aside for a coaching session… I dont say anyting to them, but inside my head it's all "WTF ARE YOU DOING!!!"

    • 

      od810 on 21/02/2018 - 22:35

      Haha, I remember that kissing noise. it's more like mouse squeak. I used to call some other regs that way.

      Man, your AMA reminds me of those days I was almost a full time poker player. But glad that I moved on from it.

      Thanks for the effort.

      • 

        pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 22:42

        At the school where I help out as a volunteer, I was in the canteen and a lady asked "where's the pot?" and I instinctively heard, "what's the pot?" and my brain went apeshit, because there was no pot to calculate. It was a weird brain freeze moment.

        Hehehe, dumb brain!

    • 

      Scrooge McDuck on 22/02/2018 - 01:38

      +1

      Please elaborate on this "kissing noise" you speak of…

      • 

        od810 on 22/02/2018 - 08:47

        So instead of yelling someone name to get their attention, dealers or people working on the floor would do this "kissing noise" like a mouse squeak

      • 

        John Kimble on 22/02/2018 - 08:50

        @od810: So if we wanted to mess with them, we could organise a kissing sound flash mob?

      • 

        Scrooge McDuck on 22/02/2018 - 10:26

        @od810:

        "kissing noise" like a mouse squeak

        It's not clear to me what you mean by this.

      • 

        pegaxs on 22/02/2018 - 11:03

        +1

        @Scrooge McDuck:

        Pucker your lips up like a kiss and suck! That noise.

        For some reason, the sound of this will carry over long distances and be be totally audible even over the most ambient noisy environments. The sound of it just punches through the noise and is easily heard.

        I have taught my kids and wife to react to it. Basically, I can yell in a crowded shopping centre and it just gets lost in the din of other sounds. I make this kissing noise and they will stop and look. Best part is, it has no affect on people who have never used it, so for them, it just presents as another noise in the audio soup…

      • 

        pegaxs on 22/02/2018 - 11:04

        @John Kimble:

        we could organise a kissing sound flash mob?

        Let me know if you do this. I wont participate, but I certainly want to watch… :D

• 

  donbot on 21/02/2018 - 21:29

  Is it true they pump pure oxygen into the casino so you dont get sleepy?

  I have no idea if it even makes sense to do so, but I heard it once and always wondered if its true.

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 22:32

    YAY!!! I've been waiting for this one. I thought it would never get asked…

    The common statement/question I got as a dealer was "The casino pumps pure Oxygen into the gaming areas, because it makes people happy, a little bit high and keeps them awake…"

    What I would say was.. "Horseshit. Just look at all these dealers in here at 2am, breathing the same air as you. If the Oxygen thing was true, why do I have to walk around and make sure they are/stay awake and why are most of them not happy to be here at 2am on a Saturday morning??"

    And the sheer amount of oxygen it would take to fill a casino to a level it would cause euphoria would be enormous!

    So no. This myth is busted.

    • 

      psychomagic on 22/02/2018 - 01:26

      +1

      The way the question is written is what causes the myth here. There is a large focus on air quality in casinos particularly in Vegas and Reno due to smoking still being allowed in gaming areas that cannot be accessed by children. A room full of smoke is not really a great place to be and so air is pumped into the casino from floor level and the bases of slot machines to force the smoke up and away from patrons.

      The air is sometimes scented and particular scents are used which may seem to provide some influence on the gambler.

      So yes pure oxygen is a hoax - treated air not so much

      • 

        pegaxs on 22/02/2018 - 11:07

        This is what I meant to say. Well put, @psychomajic.

        If you go looking around the Pit areas in the casino, have a look at where the dealers are standing, you will see the vents in the floor.

• 

  bola2000 on 21/02/2018 - 21:33

  Hey AMA just about to ask about mafia is operating in the casino and watching those loser in particular easy targets (overseas students). Approach them and lent them money etc. Blackmail them etc etc is it happening? Have you spotted some unethical things in your years?

  Thank you for sharing your stories, I enjoy it very much.

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 22:39

    It's not so much the "mafia" as such, but yes, there is a lot of organised crime that operate in and around the casino. There are the loan sharks, the drug dealers, prostitution, robbers, intimidation… and others that you could imagine.

    As for spotting it, yes. Drug deals, money lending, prostitution. You get to see it all. While it is not legal, the only thing you can do is talk to your boss or security about it and let them investigate it. But if you turf one person out for doing it, there is another one there to replace them.

    What I don’t think happens any more is the involvement of organised crime having any influence over the gaming or day to day operation of the casino itself. It's nothing like Las Vegas in the early years, where everything was run by the mob. Today, casinos are too large and too government regulated to put up with mobsters trying to control the place.

    And it's a pleasure to share my experiences with everyone. Thanks for ask a question and helping out :)

• 

  drazman2000 on 21/02/2018 - 22:49

  Hi great thread!
  I was an ex VIP tables player started with blackjack lost a lot and moved to baccarat much better but higher stakes (higher bet per hand than blackjack), but still lost. I have since stopped tables and moved to slot machines. I have found over the last year slot machines are much better in terms of returns than tables have been to me (maybe my timing or luck on tables was off). Because machines have some very nice jackpots largest win for me was $25k
  I have 3 questions for you
  1) does the loyalty card affect the slot machine play? For example if I win $5k on a machine one day will it detect my card and lose the next day?
  2) are jackpots on slot machines set to reach a certain amount and then go off? Or is it pure random and based on the millisecond you click on the button? I know a few slots that usually go off at around a certain amount or are “high” and usually go off.
  3) are machines programmed to deliberately coherse you in thinking that a free spin is coming? For example down to last $10 and it keeps giving 2 scatters when close to $0 to entice you to put more money in?

  I know these are machine questions so prob not able to answer but would be good to know.
  A tables question for you though. In baccarat there are the screens that track priori outcomes which everyone follows, given that previous hand does not impact future hands in baccarat why do the patterns MOSTLY eventuate? It is crazy sometimes!

  • 

    pegaxs on 21/02/2018 - 23:10

    +1

    I have since stopped tables and moved to slot machines.

    Out of the fire and into the, well… flaming mincing machine… yikes! What ever finds your fancy and gives your best returns, I guess.

    I have 2 questions for you…
    3) are…

    Maths huh? Found out why you are no good at Blackjack at least. So you got that going for you… which is nice. ;)

    Ok, serious now. Had my fun.
    1:Don't know. I am not in hosting/member services OR gaming machines. The only thing I can remember was, you put your cards in and depending on what car level you had, would determine how your points were accrued and how your play was audited for those points. But what you mentioned here, I highly doubt that. That would be major manipulation of the machines to cause them to do that. But, again, I was never in a department to have access to that sort of data.

    2:Don’t know. Again, no experience with pokies. I do not know anything about how progressive or any jackpot works on those machines, sorry.

    3: This, I can comment on (but still only my observation/internet research). Yes. There are reams of pages on the internet that proves just this. The machine wants to keep you there and wants you to keep feeding it. Every spin is (theoretically) independent of any other spin. Completely random. But the machine will play lights and sounds to make you think that you are close to a "feature" There is a lot of people spending a lot of time making these games addictive. And of all the chatter i hear around people playing pokie machines is "oh man! so close that time, the feature has to go off soon, I can see/hear it…"

    4: (wasn’t it only 2 questions?? ;) Baccarat is a very even game. like Roulette, people will see a pattern where there is none. It's human nature. The bane of my existence as a dealer was after spinning 4 or 5 BLACK numbers in a row, I would hear the inevitable "Oh, the next one has to be red…" and then go on to subsequently spin up another 5 or 6 black numbers in a row… then I hear the gambler fallacy come out.. "Well, it has to red eventually" or "the law of odds/averages says…" NO, WRONG! BZZZT! Thanks for playing. In reality, a dealer could spin up black numbers only for the rest of the night. Because, every spin is independent of the last. If you are seeing patterns, it's because your brain is seeing them. It could easily stay Banker next hand, or just as easily be Player. Previous outcomes have no bearing on future outcomes.

    • 

      drazman2000 on 21/02/2018 - 23:22

      +1

      Thanks my bad on the number of questions I realised and quickly edited it but somehow you still saw the 2 haha.

      I played blackjack using basic strategy and did get some good wins but it frustrated me that when ever a dealer had a picture the second card would 90% always be a picture for some strange reason! The only way I won “big” was to play perfect pairs, I know it was a ridiculous side bet but in most cases you would get 2-3 per shoe and that adds up quickly especially if you score it with a high wager.

      But you are right with patterns it’s all mind games and has nothing to do with the next hand BUT we need to follow something I guess.

      Machines are equally as annoying I was playing one machine (for a while) and the jackpot was $340k. You needed to get 5 $ signs in a row to hit it. I had my last $50 in and out came 4 $ signs with the 5th one on the row above! Was so annoyed, came in next day and the jackpot was gone… so some other lucky person got it!

      Thanks for responses

      • 

        OneMoreTune on 22/02/2018 - 11:59

        More like the machine was reset… like (profanity) that 340k went off.
        I won a mini jackpot once and it was about $2k a chick that worked there said omg I've never seen one go off and she'd been working there quite awhile.

      • 

        lysp on 22/02/2018 - 14:29

        @OneMoreTune:

        Not sure how it goes for casinos, but for machines in bars/clubs - they would much rather 100 x 2k jackpots, than 1 x 100k jackpot.

        Reason being, people see + hear the jackpot go off and that psychologically prompts them to play more because "they could be next". The size of the jackpot is irrelevant to the compulsive gambler.

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