Interesting events taking place. Thinking of buying more. Anyone here selling or holding?
Bitcoin down 33% - Selling or Holding? (22/12/2017)
follow on 22/12/2017 - 20:10
Last edited 17/01/2018 - 19:43 by 1 other user
Last edited 17/01/2018 - 19:43 by 1 other user
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I am completely oblivious to all this bitcoin stuff, but I guess my question is, I know there is merchants accepting bitcoin, but…. is there somewhere you can go this very moment and cash out for real money your bitcoins?
It is very easy to cash out. Just transfer them from your wallet to an Australian exchange, then withdraw in equivalent cash to your bank account.
ripple all the way
Who did you use to buy ripple?
not op but btcmarkets.net
This volatility is a good time to day trade, if you have balls of steel! (I don't)
Nah… I made up a spreadsheet the other day, because I'm just getting into crypto. It showed if I bought one bitcoin, then the price increased by about only $170 - it would cover the fees if I sold it again.
In other words, if I owned one bitcoin, any increase in its market value above $170 would be profit. (This is based on btcmarket fees and 1 bitcoin being $20,000.)
So if you buy on dips, then wait and sell only when it goes up by say $300, you've just made $130. Do that a dozen times a day and you will have made $1560.
I don't know how practical it is to do that yet though. I'm still waiting for my first BPAY transfer to come through.
Altcoins with low fees
I have balls of metal that I know , need to check if its steel or copper
Invested $300 buyingBest of luck! May that investment give you a chance to upgrade to balls of gold! =)
Well na coz then I would be under constant fear that someone might steal em.
More like $400 now so well done :)
Dude I wanna do that too. Where do I go?
Except for the advantage of being the first cryptocurrency, Bitcoin has nothing going for it compared to any number of newer, improved altcoins- bitcoin is hugely compromised and can't be fixed. So even if in the fullness of time cryptocurrency wins general acceptance, that won't be bitcoin.
Agreed.
There is also the transaction fee issue. If it really did go up to $100k per coin, you'd be looking at using a whole day's work at minimum wage to pay your transaction. lol.
Bitcoin was broken ages ago, there are plenty of other alternatives, but to show some respect to the whales that have conducted all the advertising for bitcoin; we should help the whales cash out.
Afterall, without them we wouldn't have much momentum in bitcoin.
(Quietly sells some bitcoin whilst no one is watching) whale
Except it only takes one exchange to drop their fees, because fewer people would be transacting due to those high fees. Then all exchanges would at least consider dropping their fees as well as word spread about that one exchange.
That doesn't fix the high miner fee
BTC dips to sub 18k? Buy the dip…it's a bargain
BITCOIN entrepreneur Emil Oldenburg is getting out,
the co-founder and chief technology officer of Bitcoin.com.
warned very high fees and long transaction waiting times had made bitcoin “virtually unusable” as a currency.I'll start using a cryptocurrency when there are no fees and you can easily use it for everyday purchases.
You're going to use it as intended and not as an investment vehicle? Shocking…
There are cryptos without transaction fees. Neo is one example.
Iota is the one I am most interested.
Really easy to make you own cryptocurrency for free
Think I'll call mine betcoin and market towards online gambling.
Some one else had the same idea, a similar coin already exists
Ok then we'll try boobcoin, for all you've Virtual Reality needz.
And don't steal my idea this time.
@airal3rt: obviously some time traveling perverts stole my idea
How about godcoin . for all you've needs in the afterlife
You're gonna need some sandles and some kinda robe at the very leastGotta pay the entrance fee too, those pearly gates don't just open for anyone.
bitcoin started the year at $1000 and 2017 at say 15,000 but who's to say 2018 it wont be 100K-250k (my prediction is >100K) and in 2019/20 we will see BTC@1million
its use is its the digital currency you buy and sell other crypro's into and its going to get easier to convert to $, CARD (tenX) or bank acc.
Its will collapse, its bad code but all the other ones will take 3 years to even get close to catching up, before replacing it.
The ledger/blockchain is DOA, its the tangle/gossip protocol thats got legs with privacy.
Nothing stops for dreaming man.
The whole idea behind bitcoin is for a stable currency replacing government control money.
The wild swings in value just means it will never ever become mainstream and also it is pegged to USD…
The difficulties in coverting to real money… it takes FOREVER and requires bucket load of details to prove your identity (KYC).Bitcoin is purely gambling at the moment.
Don't be the last rat off the boat.Not sure what you're referring to with a 'bucket load of details'. I just began, and btcmarkets only required what any bank or business would: Name, address, DOB, drivers license number. And bank account number and BSB to withdraw.
I'm actually up >10% Just keep swing trading.
This is a good point. Great way to make some extra dough if you do it right.
Haven't had time myself.
Dude, if you bought bitcoin at > the current price, just chill out and hold.
People bought it at $1000 in 2013 and then sold at $500 in 2014, locking in a loss.
Unless you need the money now, you're better off holding and waiting for it to recover.If you bought in earlier (< $2000 or something) then a little profit taking from time to time is healthy.
Also, you don't have to be all-in and all-out of your investments.
Certainly don't listen to any "BUY BUY BUY or SELL SELL SELL" comments. Take any advice with a grain of salt. Everyone who bought bitcoin a few years ago has made money automatically, regardless of how smart they are.
You should be writing for one of the grand old papers in the financial section, or perhaps you could be chief financial advisor in charge of public advertising investment opportunities for one of the big four.
which is the best site to buy Bitcoin and other cryptos
BTCMARKET and Binance, ignore those exchanges offering AUD to any altcoins, they usually have shitty rates, an instant loss of 6% when you buy and sell
Independent market is good as well
which place or site we can buy it.
Thanks @Artobargain
For best tax avoidance it is best to try and do it via private sale, eg localbitcoin (most pro traders will still want id though).
That way you get have options if it booms.It is very far from anonymous if you use a bank link exchange.
Tax departments are going to be laughing for the next decade as they trace ledger history and call in tax.TAB.
Dead cat bounce
If you want to 'buy the dip' wait until it hits 4-5k.
If you don't believe it will drop below 10k you need to reevaluate what you are investing in
Having been very profitable and knowledgeable on bitcoin and other coins, what draws you that conclusion?
When mum and dads are jumping on for fear of missing out on incredible gains, you can be sure the end is near
Technical analysis mainly.
OK what analysis was conducted? I've had two members of the family one specialising in finance (digital security) & one in online trading.
My take is there's so many different analysis/studies that provides no clear conclusion on future pricing.
It's simply guess work with a significant portion of the fluctuation coming from external veriables that cannot be predicted… or at least not conclusive predictions anyway.
I feel there's too many overnight experts that have no real clue.
@eskylidder: By technical analysis I mean analysis of the chart patterns. It's not generally a method respected by investment professionals and does not respond well to new information.
However the price of bitcoin at the moment is driven purely by speculation, hence analysis of the fundamentals isn't entirely appropriate since noone buying atm is concerned with them.
Serious question
How do you assign a nominal value to bitcoin
It’s not a recognised currency for exchange of goods
Nor will company in their sane mind accept it as a terms of trade if it fluctuates so much
So apart from a currency of trade in its current form
What is it worth, if anything?
Now Bitcoin is no longer acting as a medium of exchange, it's just a store of value
Hi Aceboy, there's no value, it's thru the consensus of the people that determines the value. If you are thinking of investing, only invest in money that you can afford to lose. When i started, i took money that i spent on Quick pick lotto tickets coz i thought since it's like gambling, i think i have more chance of winning which worked out well for me.
I wouldn’t consider investing in something that has no real value
Bitcoin is more of a bet someone will be willing to pay more than what you’ve paid
yeah that's why i used the quick pick lotto example, most ppl wouldn't put most of their savings on a quick pick lotto isn't it? You mentioning about "betting" is quite true, the whole thing looks more like gambling than investing.
"someone will be willing to pay more than what you’ve paid"
sounds like flipping housing market
What is it worth, if anything?
Nothing. BTC has no intrinsic value.
It is only "valuable" in the sense that suckers are willing to buy it. And they are only buying it because they hope there is an even bigger sucker who will buy BTC at an even higher price, so they can profit on the difference.
It's like the stock market without the assets or the regulations. It's a disaster waiting to happen. I can't comprehend the people selling their houses and assets to buy BTC. Some early adopters might "win" but only by suckering the later adopters, who are going to lose everything. I can't ethically involve myself in this scam, knowing that profit can only come from hurting somebody else.
ALL investments and businesses 'hurt' someone else. Real estate, the stock market, petrol stations, and supermarkets all hurt someone else (buy something at one price, selling it higher). Maybe we should all stop buying houses, and eating. ;-p
ALL investments and businesses 'hurt' someone else.
100% utterly wrong. Businesses create goods/services. So investing in a productive business helps everybody involved; it gives the owner the capital they need, it gives the investor a return on investment, and it creates things of value for society (aka goods and services).
There's no "investment" in bitcoin. There is no asset. There is no business. There is no production. It's purely speculation. It has no reason to exist other than to move wealth around. It's a currency. Speculating on a currency is inherently different to investment in a business.
@nhand42: It's not wrong. It's just your perception is narrow. Even assets are worthless - if other people say they're worthless. Like the huge homes many of us saw abandoned in places like Detroit after the GFC. The copper pipes were worth more than the houses themselves. The value of anything is based on the fickle opinion of other people.
This better matches your example…
Plenty of toys made in china are junk that break in the first 15 minutes. Let's say is a toy drone. Sometimes a business might replace it. Or they may say the toy had warnings about appropriate use, mistreatment, etc. - sorry no refund. Someone, somewhere, bought that cheap drone because they only wanted to spend $20 instead of the $100, $500, or $5000 for an obviously better one. Like all of us, they've heard the saying, "You only get what you pay for", and have probably also had the experience of buying something cheap that broke. But the still bought the $20 one willingly knowing the risks - or, even if it had some risk they didn't know about, they try to fly it out of the box without reading the instructions - and it crashes into the concrete.
Just people in crypto, that business: a) provided goods/services, and b) provided something that is worthless - at the same time. It was either cheap junk, or, was made worthless by the user's lack of knowledge or care.
But by the logic 'it might hurt others' every business owner in the world should only ever stock things they are 100% certain are impossible to break - even if it means they buy the most expensive ones on the planet and go broke because all their competitors stock cheaper ones. Yes, there are warranties - but they don't cover brats that throw a toy against the wall in a tantrum, and (shouldn't at least) cover someone who doesn't read the instructions causing the drone to crash.
How would the business know which were genuine claims and which were lies? Or should they only stock the more expensive toy and go out of business? Where does it end… Should they nag every customer that buys the $2 parachute toy with a rubber band and thin sheet of plastic - it's likely to break? Should they not sell it at all? Are they now absolved when it comes back broken if they nag each customer - for how long should they do that before taking their money? Do they have to follow that family home and live with them for the 12 month guarantee to make sure they use it correctly?
What about the shop that sells ice-cream cones - and a parent gives it to their kid who immediately drops half on the ground because the second scoop wasn't stuck hard enough to the first one and a little kid didn't know to expect it - should the store replace it?
What if the child swaps his new drone with someone at school for another toy - and THEN it breaks for the second kid? Should the store be responsible for that? Should the kid? Their parent?
This what I meant by narrow perception:
In the same way, people go into crypto knowing/hearing the warnings - they're everywhere. You can't read ANYTHING about it without seeing them. Some people still buy the 'toy', don't read the instructions, and crash it into the concrete. Others will make some money, decide to on-sell to person 2, person 2 on-sells it to person 3. Then bitcoin is suddenly wiped out for some reason. How is the first person morally responsible for the third person's decision to buy? All three were aware of the risk (AND possible benefit). And person 1 even sold the 'toy' to person 2 who certainly got his use out of it (he made money too after all). (And for that matter, person 1 went into it knowing HE could be the one to lose (and this assumes we 100% know someone will - which we don't). It all depends on how the 'toy' is treated by the person that buys it.)
Does this mean person 3 is responsible for his own loss? Or person 2, or person 1?
And the answer can't be "all of the above", because otherwise every store is responsible for every item manufactured that breaks when it ends in tears after not reading the instructions. Every government is responsible for every bank that falls over, etc. Everyone that buys a car they later on-sell, but turns out to have a manufacturing fault making it explode for 5% of owners - is responsible.
Why you complain when you get 25% off in Christmas season? This is ozbargain, buy first think later!
Bought more when it was down. If you're not aware, there's a lot of huge players behind the scene holding large bags of bitcoins themselves manipulating the prices, in other words, it's too profitable for them to let Bitcoin fail.
They got out while you typed this.
and they will buy in again when cheap. If you don't trade you might not have known, I've seen these cycles so many times, these are the best time to buy and sell again, based on some analyst, it will be back to USD$25000 by end of Jan 2018. The Winklevoss twins I believe owns about 1% of bitcoins in circulation of which 17% to 23% of existing bitcoins are lost forever (http://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/) The Twins are trying hard to lobby for ETF and recently successfully lobbied for bitcoin futures which is a huge step. It's a win win situation for them coz this increases their networth.
If they can manipulate prices, why dont they just add a few extra zeros and cash out ?
because from what i've read, there's a limit to how much they can manipulate, also they can make more with dips (ups and down) rather than just prices keep going up.
I sold my bitcoin when it was $us450….
Everyone go download the tenx(pay) app they sending Xmas present on Xmas
TenX is a company that has a working product (TenX Crypto Card), another product under development (COMIT) and a token (PAY).
The crypto card is pretty easy to explain. It's a card that you can load with crypto. At the moment BTC is supported, Dash if you are a Masternode and I believe ETH if you somehow managed to be in the beta users for it. There are plans to add more supported cryptocurrencies. Initially they will release support for ETH, Dash and ERC-20 tokens.
For the COMIT product I suggest you search for the whitepaper that TenX had published during their ICO and read about it there. First stages of a working COMIT are going to come Q1 2018 I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).
Now to the PAY token. PAY is another ERC-20 token on the ETH blockchain. Whenever a transaction with a TenX card takes place 0.5% of that transaction will be eventually distributed among PAY token holders. Also users of the TenX card will receive 0.1% from their spending in PAY (similar to air-miles or points etc). PAY will also be able to be used for payments when it gets supported on the card.
Back up to 15k. Just hold it until the next unexplainable 1500% price jump
How does one invest in Bitcoin to predict it will decline?
Shortest?
You can short it but it costs an absolute fortune so it's not worth the risk. As soon as you open your position you're already down a few %. It's easy to get wiped out from spikes.
If you don't know how to short you shouldn't play at all
The Cool Way: Margin Trading on those CC exchanges that provide for it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K844yk2BAuI
Old Skool way:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-27/calling-a…
Now apart from cashing in, what the phuk do I use Bitcoin for? I can't pay strippers with Bitcoin.
how do you know?
with a coinjar swipe card, you could actually pay strippers with bitcoin… assuming they take debit card
This is a good question that most people can't answer yet still buy bitcoin. Tells you something
I would assume most people that don't buy crypto know even less. And plenty of people drive cars and fly in planes that don't know their specifications or how to repair them. ;-p
you could use it to pay bills with BPAY. Many things.
You don't necessary need to "cash out".
Let me repeat myself to warn unsuspecting investors here again. Majority of you are going to lose money on this baseless currency which is being used as a tool to steal your hard earned cash. You have missed the boat by years and anyone investing now is dad/mum investors who weren't in the know years ago. Those dad and mum investors are going to get robbed blind legally
username doesn't check out
Truth is hard to hear unfortunately, it is easier to dream.
Any citation for your statement of "missing the boat"?
Cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology in general offer a solution to many real-world problems in a decentralised manner and in several cases actually pose to be disruptive to the IT space as we know it. The sky is the limit here.
True, there are many cryptocurrencies out there that will never amount to much, but it is the responsibility of the investor to do their own research and find a technology which they believe in.
Missing the boat means investing before it became well known. First mover advantage has well passed. Most big companies are investing in their own technology now, mines spending a billion dollars on their own. The current princess has been inflated by mum and dad investors slow to the scene
Anti-coiners when cryptocurrencies bear 10%; "see? I told you guys it's a scam and you are going to lose everything"
Anti-coiners when crpytocurrencies bull 10%: "It's going to burst. I guarantee it"
Source: literally have this conversation everytime I meet an anti-coiner mate of mine; meanwhile, my investment portfolio is up at least %1000 and his investment into shares has upped maybe 20-25%
lol yup. the reason anti-coiners carry on like this is through jealousy and wanting it to crash
Your down-voters don't want to hear the truth. BTC creates no wealth of its own - you can only profit by taking wealth from somebody else - and all these johnny-come-lateleys are going to be fleeced.
People need to look up what they are really investing in and who they are really supporting:
Ahhh, so THAT's what you were getting at; continue raising awareness, eh? Wouldn't want conspiracy theorists getting rich, you know
Have been investing for the last five months, and made a decent profit. Of course have to pay off capital gains to the ATO, if I sell.
On the same boat, the only thing I worry about Bitcoin now is that at the end of financial year it will be a pain in the ass to report tax
just don't cash it out. HODL.
its not a profit until you cash out….
Live in your car near a bitcoin ATM. Withdraw the maximum each day until you've withdrawn it all.
Any more suggestions, LOL?
Still got hold of yours?