When people say, "If you don't like this country, get out," what do you think?

[Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 07:29

Hi.

So a discussion turned into something else yesterday at my workplace. Where a colleague come up with his observations on Australia immigration system though he also came here few years ago on a student visa, said govt still inviting skilled workers from overseas in hundreds of professions when there is hardly any shortage. He gave an example by quoting an accounting body's statement that says there is no shortage of accountanta but immigration dept. Thinks australia still need 2000-4000 accountants every year where as locals are loosing interest in this field and pverseas grads are not getting any work. So the other person, replied that it was your choice to come here if you dont like the things you can always move back.

Is it not ok to discuss or share your views about something you think is not right and needs change?

Education & Work

Comments

  • tranter on 16/11/2017 - 07:40
    +128

    Unfortunately there is a minority of people that will make comments like that. Generally they are ignorant, and racist.

    They are also becoming more bold because of the Pauline Hanson and Donald Trump effect.

    • HighAndDry on 16/11/2017 - 09:47
      +14

      I'm not sure it's inherently ignorant or racist. It can be said as much to born-and-bred "white" Australians as it can be to immigrants.

      To be fair though - it DOES apply to immigrants more, because they made a decision to come to this country instead of any other, and in case of ones who aren't citizens yet, they're much more able to move back to their home country instead of staying. Whereas a citizen really has much higher hurdles to clear before being able to permanently move overseas.

      • tranter on 16/11/2017 - 10:06
        +6

        We don't know the exact details of OP's situation because we weren't there. That being said, I have seen enough to know that in similar contexts there is more often than not a racist undertone to such comments.

        • HighAndDry on 16/11/2017 - 10:49
          +33

          So you're just working off of assumptions? I mean, if you read OP's post, you'll see it was an IMMIGRANT who was criticizing our immigration system. And the person making the remark was defending that system - and by implication defending the immigrants arriving by that system.

          So where's the racism?

        • tranter on 16/11/2017 - 10:57
          +4

          @0blivion:

          What do you mean working off assumptions? I never made any clear-cut determination in this particular case. I used the word 'generally'.

          As I said previously I have seen enough in similar contexts where the majority of the time there are racist undertones. No assumptions, indeed strikingly evident.

        • cameldownunder on 17/11/2017 - 08:54
          +3

          @0blivion: We are discussing about opinion of a person, so he's free to express his opinion. And if that's saying "Go back, if you don't like it here" then you have to accept it.
          On the other hand Everyone should be allowed to have their opinion, and if you want to make a comment on something you think it's not working, being the Train System, Road System, Taxation, People buying toddler food, you should be able to do so.
          If someone says "Go back, if you don't like it here", I think that that person does not want to continue the discussion, or has no other meaningful arguments, or is a stick-the-head-in-the-sand person

        • havabeer on 17/11/2017 - 11:21
          +16

          @cameldownunder:

          You don't have to accept it, "Go back, if you don't like it here", is not the only option. If Australian's can't take criticism of migration or any other topic because it's coming from a migrant, we've got real problems.

          Don't get me wrong, I actually think we need to slow down immigration, it's got nothing to do with race and everything to do with a lack of infrastructure and bad governing.

        • cameldownunder on 17/11/2017 - 13:03
          +8

          @havabeer: The whole Australian economy is based on immigration and foreign investment.
          It starts with the universities: "Overseas students contribute record $19.7bn to economy"
          Construction "Strong interstate migration and overseas immigration are major drivers of housing demand, according to CoreLogic."
          Mining: "The chairman of Indian mining giant Adani gives the final investment approval for its multi-billion dollar Carmichael mine in central Queensland's Galilee Basin"
          Farming: "Chinese investment in farmland soars as politicians urge closer eye on foreign ownership"
          and retail: "Woman photographs ‘organised ring’ stocking up on baby formula at Coles"
          You cut the immigration, you cut the blood supply.
          Australia has become the self-serve shop for the Asian region, and all the politician are just holding their hands open at the checkout order, when 1/2 of the items are not scanned correctly.

        • Ti-au on 17/11/2017 - 20:45
          +2

          @cameldownunder:

          If an Immigrant is coming here then they have to accept the immigration system. And they will know what to expect from the system upfront (any look on migration forums, or a migration agent will tell you), so if they are complaining, a response of that sort may be entirely acceptable, because they have agreed to it. IF they hate the migration system so much, they could go to a Country with a different system - but they don't because they want the benefits it provides (which actually includes this type of immigration system).

          I guess a (poor) example is complaining you have to wait to get something for free (even though you know you had to wait).

          Saying that - I totally agree - yes they do have the right to voice an opinion! They also have the right to get shut down if they whinge too much.

        • cameldownunder on 17/11/2017 - 22:24
          +1

          @luciferaust: I agree.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2017 - 08:22

          @0blivion: you are right here. I didn't find the ehole thing racism related too because the person blaiming the system and the person blaiming his decision to come here are both migrants.

        • GetOffMyUnicorn on 19/11/2017 - 22:48

          @twoperspectives: At the time of writing you have only made 2 comments on your own thread. I'm surprised you didn't get more involved.

      • GetOffMyUnicorn on 16/11/2017 - 19:12
        +10

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/325826

        OP started a very similar thread not long ago, interesting…..

      • magic8ballgag on 17/11/2017 - 08:04
        +10

        It can be said as much to born-and-bred "white" Australians as it can be to immigrants.

        Except it isn't, that's what makes it ignorant and racist.

        • gnasher on 17/11/2017 - 09:35
          +3

          Not racist, patriotic. It is no longer pc to be so. I am tired of people telling me what to think, and that my opinion does not matter. And, no, I am not a white supremacist.

        • magic8ballgag on 17/11/2017 - 10:09
          +4

          @gnasher:

          Not racist, patriotic.

          Perhaps a little, but at the end of the day it's still mostly racism.

          The problem is that most patriots of Australia are mainly just stuck in their ways, meanwhile our country is changing drastically around them and they can't keep up or accept the differences.

          People don't like when they are no longer relevant, so they point their finger at the easiest target (in this case immigrants) and moan that they're destroying the country.

        • BigBirdy on 17/11/2017 - 10:10
          +11

          Yet you’re happy to tell others they have no right to express their opinion … “love it or leave” = “conform to my values or piss off” … This sounds like the view of someone who thinks they’re more entitled than others, ie a supremacist

        • [Deactivated] on 17/11/2017 - 10:33
          +2

          @BigBirdy:
          It actually sounds like many parents to their children. Accept my rules or get out. Ah, the forgotten scourge of same race intra-family racism.

        • buwa99 on 17/11/2017 - 17:34

          @gnasher:

          How is patriotism useful outside of the sporting arena?

        • sn809 on 17/11/2017 - 18:51
          +1

          Yeah but the truth is the Born and bred White Australians are children of immigrants too. If something happened 2 yrs ago or 150 yrs ago, it doesnt make the fact that you are a son/daughter of an immigrant any less. They had their contributions- some good some bad and the same goes for the new migrants.

        • Ti-au on 17/11/2017 - 20:48

          @Frugal Rock: 'same race intra-family racism'… +1

        • Ti-au on 17/11/2017 - 20:49

          @buwa99: How is it useful in the sporting arena?

        • buwa99 on 18/11/2017 - 09:50
          +1

          @luciferaust:

          So you know who to barrack for.

        • mitt on 18/11/2017 - 15:04
          +2

          Except it is. "If you dont love it, leave" is frequently a response to activists blaming Australia (or the west in general) for all the world's problems. It is a common sentiment expressed towards anyone, of any background, that thinks those nations people are falling over each other to migrate into are somehow evil oppressive hives of intolerance.

          The fact that you immediately assume "Australia bad" and "Leave if you dont like it" are opinions divided down racial lines is, in fact, racist.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/11/2017 - 20:43

        Radical islamic terrorists like man monis can get out of this country any time, sooner the better.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/11/2017 - 00:30
        -4

        These fugggn immigrants. Not assimilating here OR in their home country with the superior white expats.

        Like… ya just think they would lern to integrate. Ya go overseas and see a good white expat community enclave, totally seperate from the metropolis with not a single (profanity) local living there. Not a single (profanity) local is integrating with them. Ya can't expect us aussies to integrate with them. Because we are better.

        Us aussies… we have utes…. that is tough. Most of us wuld never go to an immigrants country and live there as an immigrant ourselves. Because for one thing, thats un-australian, a second thing they dont have utes there, and another thing: it is almost un-australian.

        Give them pamphlets, set up a dutton-as-a-service at every airport to tell them they suck.

        • beckieQ on 18/11/2017 - 22:09
          +1

          I'm having a hard time figuring out whether you are serious, or joking.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2017 - 03:19
          -1

          @beckieQ:

          It is kind of hard to know these days right?

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2017 - 08:26
          +1

          @eggmaster: make me an omelette bro.

        • Baysew on 20/11/2017 - 13:24
          -1

          @beckieQ: They are just a troll.

      • tranter on 16/11/2017 - 10:27
        +6

        How is it relevant where the term may or may not have originated?

        • tranter on 16/11/2017 - 10:35
          +9

          @Frugal Rock:

          I would answer if it was relevant to the discussion.

          Anyway I don't know where the phrase originated, but you seem to be pretty sure.

        • StarvingOat on 16/11/2017 - 21:53
          +10

          @Frugal Rock: I wish I owned a Thesaurus too

        • [Deactivated] on 17/11/2017 - 09:23
          -6

          Hey, my genius is 100% more tangible and objective than others gifted with self-assessed EQ superiority in value judgements. What proportion of society understands commensurability, do you think?

        • StarvingOat on 17/11/2017 - 09:56

          @Frugal Rock: Do you know any liquid soap brands with good moisturising properties? I have dry hands.

        • [Deactivated] on 17/11/2017 - 10:01
          +4

          @RandomDeviation:
          In your case, choose a bottle with a tamper-proof lid, portion control, doesn't contain ethanol and doesn't resemble cordial. Colour coded anti-ingestion beads might be a good idea for later identification. Write an emergency poisons hotline contact number on the side of the bottle with an indelible black texta. Lock that bottle in a box and give the key to a responsible adult. Put that locked box inside a secure dangerous liquids cupboard taller than your height plus the height of a stool plus the reach of shortish, unathletic arms. Plus a Scandinavian birch wooden salad spoon with stylishly offset centre hole.

        • tre180 on 17/11/2017 - 10:07
          +5

          @Frugal Rock: r/iamverysmart

        • [Deactivated] on 17/11/2017 - 11:49

          @tre180:
          I dizzied Vizzini. Ja.

      • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 10:52
        +9

        So calling an aboriginal person in Australia a nigger is okay because the term was coined in America?
        Riiiiiight, sound logic there champ.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 10:56
          +5

          @Frugal Rock:
          Both. They work together really well.

        • HighAndDry on 16/11/2017 - 11:03

          Hahahaha, no that'd be weird because it'd make no sense. It's like if I called a Chinese person a "nigger". Because they'd be as closely related to african-americans as aboriginals are.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 11:06
          +2

          @Drew22:
          You were just attempting 'Reductio ad nigrum'.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 11:43
          +5

          @Frugal Rock:
          Latin is dead, deal with it.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 11:47

          @Drew22:
          It's alive and well in internet meme theory.

        • HighAndDry on 16/11/2017 - 11:55
          +3

          @Drew22:

          dissentio

        • jkcat on 17/11/2017 - 08:06

          @0blivion: Assaulting an Asian with Nigger is actually a real thing. Not saying it's not weird, but it's irrelevant as to which word is chosen as the slur.

      • GC67 on 16/11/2017 - 19:33
        +1

        Haha - I'm pretty sure it was coined by indigenous Australians towards the very first arrival of the POMs…

        And no racism was inferred, implied or otherwise…

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 19:45

          What were the POMs complaining to the indigenous Australians about under your revisioning, Chuckles? Maybe you can quote the original for posterity.

        • GC67 on 18/11/2017 - 07:18

          @Frugal Rock: I try and say it with humour 'cause everyone around here gets so serious sometimes…

          http://www.kooriweb.org/foley/images/history/toons/toon65.ht…

          All I was pointing out, was that its all happened before…

          (are you a Bot?)

        • [Deactivated] on 18/11/2017 - 07:31

          @GC67:
          Despite late cramming, I flunked the Turing test. :( It might have been graded on a curve, though, as all these Slacktivist Nation members passed with flying colours and were discussing higher reeducation options.

    • ninetyNineCents on 16/11/2017 - 14:05
      +14

      So whats wrong with telling people to learn English and learn the Australian way instead of repeating the mistakes that ruined their "old" country ?

      • TheRealCher on 16/11/2017 - 19:13
        +15

        Because the "Australian" way is an amalgam of many things, including what "ruined their old country" and it has always been polylingual… So it could be time for "us" to learn some more languages and cultivate pluralism rather than only one way or the highway….

        That said, I think we probably share some values. I cannot abide intolerance, discrimination and prejudice and I think that being Australian means recognising that we are not a collection of old ways, but a journey towards new ones… Whilst recognising and apologising for how we've screwed up in the past

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 20:01
          -1

          The future looks highly elliptic. Why the overuse?

        • TheRealCher on 16/11/2017 - 21:49
          -1

          @Frugal Rock:… - - -… ;>)

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 22:04
          +1

          @TheRealCher:
          They read like the cry for help of an actor who has forgotten their lines. Are they placeholder skeletons of stillborn brilliant thoughts or just ignominious mumbling skulks from failing arguments?

        • TheRealCher on 16/11/2017 - 23:41

          @Frugal Rock: and :) not or 😀

        • johnno07 on 16/11/2017 - 23:42
          +4

          @Frugal Rock: Please just stop.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 23:50
          -4

          @TheRealCher:
          It's a bit like Eliza Doolittle reciting et ceteras.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/11/2017 - 23:52
          -1

          @johnno07:
          Impress me and I will. Demonstrate to me there is an intelligence gradient in your favour. The left fought long and hard for plurality, inclusion and never letting anyone steal your sparkle, so I'm their glittering prize. I now identify as Exclusively Correct and Letting You Know, ECALYK, and expect your full, undivided affirmation. I'm building awareness of my unique condition, and remember, no bigotry against the intelligent from you. Education is key. Being born gifted helps, too. So blessed. Be encouraging to those exceptionally smarter, just as those gifted in the morals department expect people to kowtow to them. I've got way too much going on upstairs to be keeping it a secret. It's my special gift to society, in all my sedenion glory. You're welcome. Society.

        • johnno07 on 17/11/2017 - 01:02

          @Frugal Rock: Please.

        • [Deactivated] on 17/11/2017 - 01:13
          -4

          @johnno07:
          I'll take that as a Thank You. You're welcome, too, and thanks for the validation. Social Intelligence Warriors are a public service, just like SJWs, only we can spell! I want to walk the land and dispense intelligence. I want to bridge the divide between people and thinking. The calling is from within. I feel chosen. Very chosen. A humble and chosen thinking ambassador!

        • ninetyNineCents on 17/11/2017 - 10:40
          +2

          So it could be time for "us" to learn some more languages and cultivate pluralism rather than only one way or the highway….

          Yeh we should learn how to treat women from other cultures, we should learn how great child marriage is and so on.

          Most cultures have terrible practices. Like i said

          Whilst recognising and apologising for how we've screwed up in the past

          I think you dont know your history or you are denying the negative aspects because they are an uncomfortable truth. Feel free to expand.

          I cannot abide intolerance, discrimination and prejudice and I think that being Australian means recognising that we are not a collection of old ways, but a journey towards new ones

          When the nazis had these beliefs they are rightly condemned and yet these cultures and their religions share many similar and terrible ideas and you want to give them a free ride.

      • philart on 20/11/2017 - 16:54

        The only people that can ruin a country is the people in that country new and old combined, particularly when the old has the bulk of votes when it comes to deciding their representatives.

        When I were living in the UK I saw mostly inter-racial harmony.

        To pretend there wasn't ever racial conflict problems would be ignorant of the facts. That said the race riots were mostly 30-50 years ago and integration (as opposed to assimilation) has been overall a success story.

        Because some religious nuts have decided to fight for a lost cause in Syria/Iraq or drive a vehicle into a crowd occasionally, is not reason for people to lose the plot. White people caused considerably more pain, grief and death in the British Isles via the Irish troubles than anything the millions of migrants to the UK have.

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/11/2017 - 17:21
          +1

          The only people that can ruin a country is the people in that country new and old combined, particularly when the old has the bulk of votes when it comes to deciding their representatives.

          I would rather have the current lot than allow those with an islamic agenda to take power in anyway.

          When I were living in the UK I saw mostly inter-racial harmony.

          And yet thousands of brits joined islamic state, and next nobody in the Islamic community notified any of the authorities.

          Because some religious nuts have decided to fight for a lost cause in Syria/Iraq or drive a vehicle into a crowd occasionally, is not reason for people to lose the plot. White people caused considerably more pain, grief and death in the British Isles via the Irish troubles than anything the millions of migrants to the UK have.

          Its not some, you dont understand the purpose of religion. Its not only a belief system, all religions exist because of politics. Go look at the history of the catholic church and protestants or communists vs the orhtodox church or todays and histories shia v sunni.

          Now tell me why is it muslims never protest against under age marriage, which happens and is law in dozens of islamic countries but they protest on mass about cartoons ?

          White people caused considerably more pain, grief and death in the British Isles via the Irish troubles than anything the millions of migrants to the UK have.

          What bullshit. Firstly the troubles in NI were not caused by anybody in Wales, Scotland or England. Most of the troubles were as i said because of religious groups. Take any religion and call it a political party which is what it is, and now judge it for its current and past effects on the local community.

          If you want to find the real trouble makers in any country looking at religious people is a very good start, both today and in past history.

          Feel free to challenge me on more examples and i will happily provide.

        • HighAndDry on 20/11/2017 - 17:44

          When I were living in the UK I saw mostly inter-racial harmony.

          Yeah, sure…

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit…

    • GetOffMyUnicorn on 16/11/2017 - 16:38
      +5

      I'm not sure what this thread has to do with Donald Trump. Having said that everything is Trumps fault according to some liberals!

      https://www.google.com.au/search?q=liberal+tears&rlz=1C1CHBF…

      • Kangal on 17/11/2017 - 16:44
        +1

        He's the new Obama, except he can't jump.

        • GetOffMyUnicorn on 17/11/2017 - 16:46

          one in the hand is worth two in the bush

      • hooyn on 17/11/2017 - 17:17
        +1

        Because Trump is a racist, xenophobic, islamophobic white supremacist! Have you not seen all the "news" reports on the Project and Sunrise? HE HAD TWO SIPS OF WATER DURING HIS SPEECH YESTERDAY. IMPEACH!!!

        • GetOffMyUnicorn on 17/11/2017 - 17:22
          +1

          Edit, gottcha.

          Damned fake news. I can't bring myself to watch it.

    • berry580 on 16/11/2017 - 20:52
      +6

      Being an Australian is genuinely a privilege, it might not be the case for many Australian born in Australia (I am one), but that is especially the case when you compare the Australian standard of living, civil rights, etc to the rest of the world. Some people just don't get it.

      It'll be hard to generalise whether it is OK or not to say stuff like "you can leave if you don't like Australia".
      But one thing is for sure, you'll draw fire from someone, irrespective of seemingly how appropriate the comment might be.

      Without trying to be politically correct, let's put it this way.
      Constructive feedback with good intent to Australia is welcomed. Thinking Australia is below you in any way shape or form is not.
      For people that belongs in the latter group, this is not North Korea, no one is stopping you from leaving as long as you actually have a valid passport and air ticket, you're welcomed to leave.

    • Well Wasted on 16/11/2017 - 22:34

      why label people with bigoted and negative stereotypes…? and your gaggle thinks the same! i'm nationalistic… don't be whinging in front of me. S.T.F.U.

    • ameno on 17/11/2017 - 13:52

      lol

    • fishandchipss on 17/11/2017 - 14:44
      +1

      And when I point out to my colleagues that they were racist… they said I don't understand the Aussie humour -_-

      • PJC on 17/11/2017 - 15:24
        +1

        If they are making fun of you, then they accept you.

    • Mikerobertsn on 17/11/2017 - 20:57
      +1

      ”Generally they are ignorant and racist” you realise you are generalising people for generalising too much…oh the irony.

      • tranter on 18/11/2017 - 09:36
        -1

        Generally speaking, if indeed it was a generalisation, the word 'generally' would have been omitted.

    • AlbertE on 04/06/2020 - 21:12

      What actually Trump did that can be assessed as racist? Cmon

  • RM on 16/11/2017 - 07:41
    +20

    there is always something we don't like in a country we live in….if we all moved back won't that leave this land with only aboriginals!!

    • HighAndDry on 16/11/2017 - 09:48
      +6

      The quote isn't even "Go back to your country, etc", it's just "get out". Aboriginals can move overseas as easily as anyone else.

      Though I think the fact that you and others are READING it as "go back" when that hasn't been said, says something about people being too sensitive and/or quick to jump to conclusions (negative ones).

      • Kangal on 17/11/2017 - 16:48
        +7

        No, the quote is actually "Australia, love it or leave".
        However, I have had the "Go back to your country" thrown at me several dozen times.

        My standard response is "You pay, I'll go"
        … no-one has yet to pay me for Airline tickets yet, a bunch of TightArses ; )

        • HighAndDry on 17/11/2017 - 16:50
          +3

          No, the quote is actually "Australia, love it or leave".

          This I actually agree with. I mean, you can even criticize things you love, but people like that Yasmin (sp?) person who apparently hates everything Australia is? Good riddance she left to the UK.

          "Go back to your country"

          See, THIS I would have a problem with, depending on context. But really, Australia is my country.

        • Kangal on 17/11/2017 - 16:57
          +5

          @0blivion:

          Yeah, I put my manager on the spot the other month.
          We had an employee transfer to my section from another section of the company.
          When someone asked "Who's that?", she blurted out "Oh, you know that Indian girl"
          … I was like "Umm, isn't she Australian?"

          She hesitated for a second and said "Oh, but she's Indian-Australian".
          And I responded "I don't think so, she's only holding one passport".

          My manager has this habit of being a liar, obnoxious, and uptight (and pushy-religious).
          It's not my place to call her up on her hypocrisy, but boy is it fun.

        • skidexa on 18/11/2017 - 01:45

          @0blivion: Well there are a lot of things Australia can do better. I mean shit we only just got the SSM thing right and it's 2017. I'm sure there are a lot of people who complain about NBN or public transport, Sydney lock out laws etc, does that mean we should leave?

        • redpump on 18/11/2017 - 09:30

          @skidexa: technically we still haven't sorted SSM, we only had an expensive opinion poll on it…

        • [Deactivated] on 18/11/2017 - 09:33
          -1

          @skidexa:
          Mathematically, what has 2017 got to do with anything. Are you superstitious or a numerologist. Are planets aligning. Are you a Nibiru theorist. Is it a Back to the Future hoverboard prophecy thing. Does your New World Order have a useby date. What's the formal, 2017 fixated mathematical relation?

  • Pharos5 on 16/11/2017 - 07:47
    +80

    I don't know enough about 457's to speak about the /exact/ scenario, but I'd say that in most cases the response of "If you don't like it, leave" is lazy. It shuts down any conversation, even with valid criticism, so you don't have to face the thought that everything isn't perfect.

    I don't think we'd be where we are today if all of history's inventors and innovators were told "if you don't like it, leave" or "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

    If someone is whinging about something for the sake of it, sure it can be irritating. But if it's a valid criticism of something that could be changed I think that response is close-minded.

    • tranter on 16/11/2017 - 07:50
      +5

      Very good comments, although you are being too kind with lazy description.

      • altomic on 16/11/2017 - 07:58
        +67

        Well, if you don't like this response then get out.

    • HighAndDry on 16/11/2017 - 09:49
      -8

      "I don't think we'd be where we are today if all of history's inventors and innovators were told "if you don't like it, leave" or "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"."

      To the contrary - I think a lot of Western innovators and inventors were able to be as successful as they were PRECISELY because they left their original (usually communist/socialist) countries of origin. I mean, their loss our gain?

      • carwashhair on 16/11/2017 - 10:04
        +1

        I mean, their loss our gain?

        Well, you need to be careful about that - don't forget the US nabbed some scientists out of Germany that could've been tried as war criminals in WWII. Do their achievements in the US Space program make up for their wrongs designing deadly weapons for the nazi regime?

        • HighAndDry on 16/11/2017 - 10:47
          +1

          Nope, not at all. But nothing can change the past, so the options were: Let them languish in a prison cell, or let them contribute to the advancement of the sciences. The first is a little wasteful, don't you think?

        • TheRealCher on 16/11/2017 - 19:16
          +1

          @0blivion: "Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

        • syousef on 17/11/2017 - 13:06
          -2

          @0blivion:

          Don't punish the Nazi war criminals because you're wasting their evil genius? You have GOT to be trolling.

          What else? Don't punish the child rapist priests because they give good speeches?
          Don't imprison murderers because you'd be wasting all that hunting knowledge?
          Don't imprison the corrupt politicians because you're wasting their negotiating and people skills?

        • Ti-au on 17/11/2017 - 20:59
          +3

          their wrongs for designing weapons for the Nazi regime

          So the guy who creates the machine gun - so its ok if its for the allies, but it somehow wrong if its the axis? Yay nuclear bombs dropped on Japan!

          Should the farmer feel guilt for growing vegetables that feed people in the nazi regime?

        • [Deactivated] on 17/11/2017 - 22:51
          -3

          @syousef:
          What sort of computer are you using that is not sympathetic to Nazi genocide? It would have to run on valves and weigh 30 tonnes and be located in the Smithsonian museum. And be stolen.

          Every single digital computer, every computer containing an FPU, every Von Neumann bus architecture and much cryptography technology is directly based on Konrad Zuse's Z3 and Z4, developed specifically for the purpose of Nazi world domination. The patents were dubiously transferred to IBM in Berlin during the US occupation. IBM Stuttgart acknowledge an exchange but refuse to disclose further details of their involvement with Nazi collaborator Zuse.

          It's weird for you to be raising moral objections whilst happily using the spoils of genocide and fruits of Nazi technology yourself. By weird, I mean totally and absolutely hypocritical in a way that ignorance cannot excuse. Every single moral crusader on the internet is doing the same. That is why they are so easy to ignore. Every time they raise education and smear ignorance, ask them about Konrad Zuse. No education there and ignorance in spades, but happy to update their facebook status using Nazi technology.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join