I need some guidance in buying a home safe.
It doesn't need to be super flash - just a good quality safe for things such as passports, jewellery, birth certificates etc.
I've seen Bunnings sell the Lockwood brand safes.
Is there anything I should look out on and do you get what you pay for?
Thanks guys!
Buying a 'safe' for my house
loiloi on 10/11/2017 - 16:27
Comments
By using this theory you might as well buy a fireproof bag/sack and hide it. Safes should be mounted to the floor and fireproof; along with being as difficult to open without the key or code.
My daughter-in-law purchased a house with a safe concreted into the floor of a closet. The former owner didn't tell her about it and one of her children discovered it. It was a brilliant setup because no one was going to be running off with it and if thieves ransacked the place, it was highly unlikely they would find it on their own.
Is there more to the story? Has the safe been opened and checked for its contents yet?
eyeballz2770
We demand you to finish the story!
@sky blu: You people are hilarious! Sorry to disappoint you but her husband found a locksmith video on YouTube and opened it. It was empty. But he did find the manufacturer's details and found out how to reset the code to the front panel so they could use it themselves. There's no key but they weren't too fussed. :)
I guess there are three main reasons to have a safe. The first is just as a place to keep stuff. The second is to stop that stuff from being stolen. The third is to protect the stuff from being burnt in a house fire.
Virtually anything will meet the first reason. For the second, the safe needs to be sturdy enough not to be openable with typical housebreaking tools, and it either needs to be too heavy to remove, or unbreakably attached to something that cannot be removed. For the third, it needs a very good fire rating and to be waterproof.
You'll notice that even the Bunnings safes start at about $100 and rapidly move upwards as you add features. At the bottom level, you're probably not buying much more than a locked cupboard. Basically, it's not going to stop theft, and it won't handle a fire.
So, what do you want from your safe?
Thank you for your long reply! I would be looking for a safe that prevents items from being stolen and to a degree, safe in the case of a fire. My top priority though is the items being safe and secure.
Are you able to point me in the right direction/brands etc?
At the bottom level, you're probably not buying much more than a locked cupboard. Basically, it's not going to stop theft, and it won't handle a fire.
Can you elaborate on this?
I purchased a cheap safe from Bunnings a few years ago and have it mounted somewhere hidden, and I highly doubt anyone would be able to physically remove it or break into it.
We had a safe at work that got broken into. It was about 70cm cubed, weighed ~150kg and seemed to be made of concrete and steel reinforcing with a metal exterior skin.
Admittedly it wasn't bolted into the floor and wall, but one night some crooks broke into the office and thought it was worth spending quite a while to break into it. They had brought some of their own tools (presumably to break into the office in the first place) and used every tool that we had in the office to get this safe open. The whole office was covered in chunks of concrete like a bomb had gone off and the safe's internal reinforcing (which was probably about 8mm-10mm thick) was bent just enough to get door open. It would have taken a mammoth effort to do all this, and considerable time. And what did they find? A couple of CD containing the company's intellectual property, which they could have gotten if they had picked up any of the computers and servers sitting next to the safe. They left empty handed.
A previous job had a safe for classified documents. That thing was so heavy that it required a structural engineer to sign off that it wasn't going to fall through the building when the company relocated offices. The most important thing it ever stored were a few packets of Arnotts Assorted Creams (those Monte Carlos really need protecting…).
Anyway, the takeaway from all this is that the quality and construction of the safe (as well as the installation) determine how long it would take somebody to break into it. The better the safe the longer it will take them, generally. But given enough time, all safes can be broken into. If you're looking at a cheap safe, my opinion is that you're better off finding a better hiding spot instead. Safes are big, bulky and generally easily spotted.
Is this a genuine concern for a personal safe though? I thought the main part of keeping things in a safe was so that they were out of sight and something that someone can't easily snatch and run.
Much like data redundancy/RAID solutions, it's only an additional feature and shouldn't be used as a core backup solution, and as such I would assume that the same applies to safes in which they should only be used as an extra layer of security.
Sounds like a safe is a good distraction piece
I find it ironic that you had the company's IP stored in the safe onsite with the rest of your IP. Some great continuity planning happened here… If your place burnt down all the computers and the safe would have been toast (yes, your CDs inside the safe wouldn't have burnt, but would have melted.)
@serpserpserp: Nah, fireproof safe should insulate against that.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/do-fireproof-safes-work…
30mins @ 845 deg celcius and the cheaper safes made it through; that's enough for my comfort.
@serpserpserp: They tested 3 safes, the most expensive failed the being put out by the fire fighting team. The cheaper 2 safe's seals survived; documents in tact…
Also I wonder if storing digital media would really survive at a hot fire for 30 minutes. I mean paper, sure, but DVD's and the like are pretty easy to damage under any heat.
@serpserpserp: Fireproof safe should keep the contents under 52 degrees. You know those thermal cups - same concept, larger scale in reverse. Air trapped between the layers of metal insulate and prevent transfer to the interior layers.
I suggest a waterproof container at the bottom of a hole in the garden. Housebreakers are not going to dig up your whole backyard on the off chance of finding valuables. In contrast any locked box in the house screams "valuables here". No-one but you needs to know about the buried container. A safe needs to be purchased and a serious one requires professional installation, which means a whole bunch of people know you have valuables in your house.
No fire will touch it. Safes don't burn but the contents of any safe will get hot enough to if the outside of the safe is hot for long enough. The first hit I found on Amazon for "fireproof safe" is opened with a digital keypad and fingerprint reader. Good luck on either working after a serious fire.
This more commonly applies to data security, but the best backups are offsite backups. So…
https://www.commbank.com.au/support/faqs/361.html
Safety deposit box from $55 - $110 per year. Especially if it's not just for documents but also presumably valuable jewellery which might be damaged just by heat from a fire even inside a fire-proof safe, very much worth it imo.
I have a safe deposit box at the CBD branch of CBA, and last time i was there (could of months ago) they were no longer taking names down for their waiting list. When I signed up, there was a 9 month waiting list
How much does it cost you?
The safest safe is at the bank (deposit box)
As others said you will want fire safe which means $$$, after all what was the point if it gets hot enough inside to destroy stuff…
Could you not just put it in a box inside the manhole if it's just theft you worry about? Not many theifs get in your roof.
Not many theifs get in your roof.
Actually it's often one of the easiest entry points to a house if you have roof tiles.
I'd like the stats since you claimed it.
I imagine most of its windows unlocked doors or outright break and enter…
Can't imagine many crooks climbing on roof but you never know.
Let's call it anecdotal.
He said easiest, not necessarily the most common. It is actually pretty easy to slide a few tiles up, climb into roof cavity and drop down through the man hole.
@tryagain: ever climbed into a roof and walked across the beams? Maybe it's because I'm quite tall but when I did insulation after I finished school climbing around roof isn't that much fun, and we had big beams we used lol.
climbing around roof isn't that much fun
I agree, however a desperate thief wouldn't be thinking that
That's pretty well known. In most cases they probably don't spend much time searching the roof cavity though.
yeah, but best not to put your gear right next to the manhole, seeing as that's how they will get into the house itself. It's almost like gift wrapping your stuff.
Actually just discreetly breaking a window is problem the easiest and quickest way. Unless you are trying to sneak in to assassinate someone?
From your post i believe this is all you need
https://www.bunnings.com.au/first-alert-11l-waterproof-and-f…
Wouldn't a theif just walk off with it?
You generally drill it into the ground.
If you leave it in plain sight then yes.
Perhaps a Babushka Safe? One that's a really big safe, and inside the safe have another smaller safe, and inside that safe have another even smaller safe, and inside that smaller safe…. …. ….. …..
The First Alert 2602F is UL classified and tested to withstand an external temperature up to 843°C for 30 minutes
I can't think of any major fire that would be resolved, and contents recovered, within 30mins. That's obviously a worst-case scenario, but that's also the only scenario where you'd need a fireproof safe…
A house fire wouldn't get to 843 degrees
Oh, fair enough.
Firestorms (large bushfire events) can be twice as hot as that, and often a great many houses are burnt completely to the ground.
I suspect that items in a lot of the lower priced safes in such a fire would be lost - the fire ratings are just not high enough.
However, such a fire might not be likely in the OP's area.
An average house fire is around 600 degrees c or 1100 f
https://www.reference.com/government-politics/house-fire-tem…
and each room would be over in less than 30 minutes except for the roof
https://fire9prevention.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/what-should…
that assumes no fire brigade rocks up and it just burns out.
So the safe in question should be ok.
Yup okay, that makes sense, it's the peak temps/timeframe.
Water gets into safes lol, ruined paperwork.
That's not suitable, not rated for document storage. He needs something for passports and birth certs. This seems to be the only one that Bunnings sell which is rated for paper
https://www.bunnings.com.au/first-alert-26-6l-digital-waterp…
I wouldn't trust that brand, they have a picture of the safe on fire AND drowning, what sort of c-grade movie crap is that?
Maybe the safe, sorry, "chest" is made of potassium metal. If thieves try to damage your valuables by throwing your chest into the bathtub, the last laugh's on them as it explodes in a ball of flame!
Buy one as a decoy and make sure it is easy to find and relatively easy to be taken.
Hide your valuable somewhere else, or get a real safety box in a hidden location.
Hopefully the thief will go away just with the decoy thinking they get the jackpot.This.
I have a dummy safe and store all my cash and jewellery in my mattress.
$3.72 and a broken Casio digital watch
My place got broken into couple of years ago, bedrooms were the main focus, living room was the second focus
So you might want to reconsider moving your valuables out of the bedroom.
Just a thought..Did they enter through your roof rofl
The safest place to hide something is in the kitty litter.
Or if you don't have a cat, just dump it in the loo.
Or if you don't have a cat, just use the kitty litter anyway (instead of the toilet) and keep hiding stuff in it.
Right, so instead of a safe hidden out of sight, I now have a fake cat-shitter cramping my house's style.
Buy something that has a fire rating. All the cheap ones won't protect your documents from fire.
Was contemplating a safe too. Can't work out how to secure it, as we have floorboards on brick piers and the underfloor is accessible from the outside.
You may need to try to find a way to bolt it directly to a floor joist and maybe to an internal wall frame.
If it is your house make a brick pier under your chosen spot, fill it with concrete and then bolt the safe to it.
It all depends on how safe you want your safe to be.
I'm curious as to what sort of important documents people have that they need them to be protected from fire, as I was under the impression that most would have digital copies of everything and things like birth certificates/passports could be easily re-obtainable.
Legal documents that require originals eg: Wills, Title Deeds etc
I have birth certificates, passports, divorce papers, spare car/house keys and a few bits of kids memorabilia (birth records/blue books) in mine. Whilst most can be replaced, I just don't want to go to the hassle or expense of it all.
Exactly. Passports alone are hundreds.
Does a digital copy or photocopy even help during application? I thought they only accept original documents?
Be careful with the cheap digital safes. I bought one and the lock was absolutely rubbish.
Good brands are cmi or Chubb
You want something with a recessed door so it can't be pried open easily. And bolt that thing to the floor or walls. A safe will only slow down a thief. But if they can take it then they will have all the time in the world to cut it open.
I always figure if someone really wants your gear, they will get it. The goal of security and safes are to make it less expedient for them to bother, and instead go pick on someone else. Ultimately if they really want it though all they have to do is wait until you are home, stick a gun (or alternative life threatening device) in your face, and ask you to open/get it.
Would this work at the safety deposit boxes at the bank? Like would the average bank staffer open a safety deposit box with a master key or generally is it bank policy to accept bullets?
Erm… Hi ASIO ;-)
Cheap safes are easy to open. Check out youtube tutorials for pin recovery, bumping, etc to open safes. Basically anything you find at Bunnings should automatically be off your purchase list.
A safe also screams 'Open/steal me, valuable stuff inside!' If you have a safe then have several, each with some documents inside them. Hopefully the thieves won't stumble upon the one safe that really has valuables in it. Most safes slow the thief down or stop someone without tools/knowledge.
The Bunnings I've all been to in SA all stock pretty rubbish safes. They are mainly rated for fire, not security. You need to go to a locksmith or safe store and have a look at safes that are 'cash rated' if you're looking at security from theft rather than fire. Higher cash ratings are obviously harder to get in to. Even a modest $2000 rated safe is better than everything I saw at Bunnings. As others have said even the best safe will only slow thieves down and is useless by itself. They should be used as one piece as part of a multi-layered security solution.
Buy the type of safe that satisfies category H hand gun licence storage.
Ok my dad use to work in sales for a massive safe company for 30 years and I use to install safes.
Depends on your budget and what you store.
Based on the limited info above you need one of two options.
1/ floor safe dyna bolted into a concrete floor somewhere out of site ie a closet or garage or pantry
2/ floor safe cemented and bolted in the floor where builders concrete a hole in ground slab for u when building a House.Most smart people choose 1/ above.
Chubb sell quality or wormold but are both crazy money.
Otherwise look at cmi safe co at blakehurst Sydney as a benchmark.
Key with electronic combo lock are ok
Cost us around $300 up.
if you want a fire proof safe, can't you just get a safe and put a fireproof pouch inside it, with all your contents?
How about a fireproof pouch that covers the whole safe? Protect both the safe and its contents, win-win?
Uhm.. I used ice cream container I kitchen.. So far so good :)
As oppose to buying a safe house
Ever leave a door unlocked accidentally?
buy the cheapest safe and put it in concealed place that cannot be seen/found by anyone (which is more important than choosing the safe itself)
PS: not just simply put inside your wardrobe.