I have terrible knees and have tried about a dozen different avenues so far. I'm considering going to see an Aboriginal healer.
Have any of you lovely people taken this route before?
Thank you in advance.
Anyone Visited an Aboriginal Healer before?
lookatthesizeofthat on 28/09/2017 - 19:57
Last edited 29/09/2017 - 15:37 by 1 other user
Last edited 29/09/2017 - 15:37 by 1 other user
closed Comments
They gonna just mix up some Aloe Vera and put it on lol…
Have you tried ice/heat rub?
Are you knocking Aloe Vera as having medicine value? Now that my friend is very laughable. It wont fix his knee tho, unless it is sunburnt or an open wound :P
Aloe Vera was once believed by some to have healing powers. My point was it won't help his knee and it's a waste of money lol
Though yes, it does indeed help with sunburn
buying aloe vera products in little plastic tubes is a waste of money. Buying a plant however is a solid purchase. The ointment is fresh and ready to use and packed by nature in cool leaf shaped packet.
I mean going to an 'aboriginal healer' is a waste - i was implying they'd simply put Aloe Vera on it and tell you it's some kind of magical healing stuff.
@stormii:
If someone labels themselves a 'healer' or practices any other kind of BS magical healing methods I'm not about it at all, lol. Better to stick to proven, researched methods. The 'aboriginal healer' part was quoting OPs title.
Not sure if serious or a troll…
That's what I wonder about all the NO Voters..
Have you tried acupuncture or remedial massages? They have more success stories than the other culture.
Plus you can get health fund covers for them
In terms of stuff you can try at home, all without much of an evidence base but worth a go before you spend hundreds on stuff with even less evidence:
Tiger balm (comes in patches, love them for my back)
Capsaicin cream
Topical voltaren or something similar
Eucalyptus rub
Massage
Magnesium (orally)
Epsom salt or magnesium salt bathAnd discuss with your GP whether or not taking simple analgesia (i.e. panadol, nurofen, voltaren etc) regularly every day for a week would be beneficial in driving down the inflammation happening in there. You must discuss with GP first though as only they know your medical history and those medications are not without side effects.
If you are going to take magnesium for joints, try to find a compounding pharmacy that makes up thier own magnesium phosphate tabs, they are cheaper and more easily absorbed.
I did not know you could do this, good to know!
Thank you for your 'evidence' very much appreciated.
I would recommend Capsaicin cream.. it'll remind your brain what "real" pain is like.
Especially if you don't wash your hands well enough and rub your eyes….lol ,sounds painful. Good for circulation though?
Ayurveda.
A colleague of mine went back home to India (somewhere south) to get his spine sorted out.
Something to look into, and all the best!Thank you, I love India, such lovely people, cheers!
oh yeah, i forgot about Ashwaganda! Thats an Ayurveda medicinal plant good for reducing the swelling in joints.
Might be in the state of Kerala. If you are considering going there, this institute is considered as one of the best: http://www.aryavaidyasala.com/
Thank you, India has some amazing people and I love the food, I might well check this out!
if you can squat, then start off light and build your way up.
Been doing light squats, the muscles are building, than you for giving the inspiration. I'll get them stronger!
Id try to find the person who healed Dr Strange.
Thanks so much. Great job, here's an upvote.
For whatever its worth, I am aboriginal from WA and I would still put my trust in a qualified doctor or health professional any day of the week over any traditional healers regardless of race or culture or beliefs.
I think they only work when their clients are already 110% of the belief they work, and the placebo effect kicks in. To me it sounds like you have something chronic, or long term, which requires lots of therapy and imaging to gauge your progress. Best of luck.
You should take this advice. Probably the most sincere and informed response you'll get.
Interesting reply given your user name, I guess it is a matter of a foot in both worlds.
This response wins the thread!
No disrespect intended, I nearly completely agree with Shaman's comments about the placebo effect but I feel that wouldn't be the case with all spiritual healers or shamans (totally unsubstantiated wild guess would be that less than one in ten would be the real thing but more than one in a hundred).
This thread is filled with so much pseudoscience my downvote limit has been reached
If alternative "medicine" works it gets adopted by scientists and doctors for refinement, safety checks and efficacy evaluation.
And NO your one off anecdotal account of it "working" is not good enough
No one is telling him it will cure him. There is just a lot of, if you going down an alternate path, why not give this a shot. Whether you approve or not is kinda irrelevant, I would give you my excess downvotes if I could, just so someone in the future could verify whether something was true or not more accurately by searching a forum full of passive aggressive people with keyboards and upvotes in hand.
Your entire comment is irrelevant, it's nothing to do with my approval, and everything to do with the scientific evidence to back it up.
I would give you my excess downvotes if I could, just so someone in the future could verify whether something was true or not more accurately by searching a forum full of passive aggressive people with keyboards and upvotes in hand
You do realise that upvotes do not count as evidence right?
No you're irrelevant … I'm out. I dont actually come to forums to hear the mean averaged opinion, crunched into metadata. I am all about the anomaly, the exception, the individual, and I actually do mean that people like you who think the book was written in stone for all time, are as irrelevant as a speed hump.
@stormii: How in anyway was my comment mean? It was about calling out the bullshit and putting an end to people being deceived.
hear the mean averaged opinion
LOL! You do realise that facts/evidence are not opinions
To think even for a second, that real science and medical studies do not consider the outliers or individual just goes to show how little you understand science.
irrelevant as a speed hump
Speed bumps save lives bruh, unlike your shitty pseudoscientific medicine you seem to be advocating for.
It seems that you want to argue for the sake of arguing, it shows as the way your comments are expressed are borderline incomprehensible and resort to weak personal insults.
People like you, that are so unwilling to understand how medicine and science operate before commenting are why there is such a huge disparity between academics and the lay population.
I'm out
Good, keep it that way.
If alternative "medicine" works it gets adopted by scientists and doctors for refinement, safety checks and efficacy evaluation.
Partially true. Sometimes it gets adopted, after years of being mocked, or those who push for it are discredited instead.
Meanwhile, mainstream treatments that are obviously harmful for years are left in place because they're 'approved'. Like that drug that caused a huge incidence of birth defects, the polio vaccine I think it was that was tainted with some simian virus whose inventor came out and warned people about years later but they pushed on giving out, and the hip replacements that were cancelled in the USA years before here, because they were causing muscle atrophy, but the manufacturer ignored until forced to stop.
After years of actually developing some evidence more like. Shit only gets mocked when there is no evidence for it. Eg the doctors in Australia treating Lyme disease. If they could actually show evidence the infection exists in this country, or show evidence of a different infection causing the same symptoms or at least show evidence that treating it works, then they'd stop being a joke.
I'm sorry, that's not accurate. I've just given a few examples of it, and I'm sure there's many more: where a traditional treatment is long-discredited overseas, yet our own government continues to ignore that evidence. The converse is also true - years and years of evidence something is effective - but those with vested interests (and income-producing copyrights) 'fund' biased studies to protect their own income from their mediocre and problematic drugs. Not to mention when their copyright exclusivity expires, they suddenly find a 'new' drug to copyright that's better - what a coincidence!
You only have to look at someone like Charlie Teo I believe his name is… He's been warning for years of the dangers of children using mobile phones - and cutting out the resulting brain tumours those who mock him won't touch. Now they're talking about 5G, and studies show 5G radiation produces a large increase in tumours in mice. Yet once again, technology and those who stand to become wealthy from it, push on regardless.
Cite examples please of discredited treatments we still have in practice. Cite examples where we unjustifiably don't approve treatments where a proven treatment exists (there are numerous completely valid reasons why we don't, the most obvious of which is health economics). How is a multinational, multibillion dollar company adding a new hydroxyl group to their drug for a new copyright have anything to do with practitioners in Australia? Great, multibillion dollar companies can do shady things to make a profit. Doctors are capable of reading research and assessing bias in study design.
Physicists are the ones who tell us that non-ionising radiation of wavelengths too great to interact with DNA would not be expected to cause brain tumours. Also the claim that phones cause brain tumours relates to making phone calls (thanks to the inverse square law), something that isn't exactly popular with kids. Also phone calls rarely go over 4G radios (some phones/providers do though), let alone 5G. Cite your sources please re: solid evidence of tumours being caused by radiowaves. Then we can see your skills in assessing study design. Charlie Teo copped flack for performing radical brain surgeries on patients with horrendously poor likelihood of a good outcome. Personally I'm all for that if a patient is well informed and understands the risk then I think you should give them the option of very likely death when the alternative is certain death.I'm no fan of the ethical behaviour of for profit multibillion dollar drug companies, few of us are, but the alternative is actually providing reasonable funding to universities and hospitals to do medical research so that we can have academic and government organisations holding the patents, and sadly the Australian public and thus the government don't give a shit about science funding. So what do you expect them to do when they've spent $2billion getting that drug to market?
Cite examples please of discredited treatments we still have in practice.
Right now? No idea. But as I said, that hip replacement nightmare (cobalt I believe it was, but I might be wrong) - went on here for a year or two after the product was pulled in the USA - in fact the company knew it was faulty, and simply chose to dump it in other countries where it's use hadn't been banned yet.
Our government knew about it, and it took a TV documentary to inform people with wasted muscles that they weren't dreaming, that their doctors were ignoring the severe complications, before government/medicos finally did something about dropping its use.
SMH like big pharma isnt rigging the market, the results of thier own tests. It will all be doubleplus good eventually.
I think being hardline about alternative therapy is seriously counterproductive. First do no harm right? If there is no harm, and the recipient finds relief then there's no problem. I would just say though that harm can be financial, so paying hundreds of dollars for something that clearly is not going to work is still doing harm. Trying home remedies is cheap and pretty harmless, as is acupuncture. Overall it's best to run where the evidence is but if people want to try things that aren't going to hurt them physically, spiritually or financially, that they may for whatever reason find some benefit from, then why not? Especially where pain is concerned, a condition where the boundary between the physical and the psychological can get seriously blurred. Rousing on people for considering alternative therapy doesn't push them towards evidence-based medicine, it isolates them from it through intimidation.
People will totally agree that a healthy plant-based diet has everything to do with health, but to recognize there is any science to it seems beyond them. If it hasn't been extracted, titrated and distilled its BS according to popular opinion. (eg: Quinine is originally extracted from Willow Bark. Morphine from Opium Poppies, Bananas are full of potassium).
This has to be the most successful troll post I have ever seen on OzBargain…
What’s your height and weight?
Perhaps you should visit a psychiatrist to help, and then have him/her offer you something for your ignorant, self centred and archaic views on marriage equality.
Honestly, loved your response.
Perhaps you should say on topic…
You just included around 50% of Australians, good luck with that.
You have bad knees coz you voted no.
What a viscous, nasty unprovoked attack, i hope your proud mate.
I hate to weigh in on this, but my meter overflowed. Having Vote No on your avatar invites political disscussion, and not allowing voting, tax-paying members of society to sign a legal binding financial contract, based solely on a prejudice against thier sexuality is a breach of Geneva Convention Human Rights.
Been posting in this thread for a few days now, but I've only just noticed the "vote no" in his icon. The only rights being prejudiced against here - are his - LOL.
So promoting a yes vote with criticism, insults, accusations of being backward, prejudiced, and stupid - are all perfectly ok - but having the courage to say it's ok to vote no because it's each person's OPINION - is not.
Glad we cleared up who the real prejudiced morons are.
Breach of the Geneva human rights convention… puh-lease. Talk about dishonest mis-application. Another person probably just changed their vote from yes to no with that one.
@GregMonarch: I made no personal attack on his character, and if you will please go and read the geneva human rights convention, and then continue this discussion, that would be great,
@stormii: I don't need to read it again. Maintaining the traditional definition of marriage as exclusively between people of opposite gender (and there's only ever two genders - male and female), does not qualify as discrimination: it is merely common sense. And when common sense is ignored or discarded in order to appease a minority that claims discrimination where none actually exists, is the tip of the wedge to open the floodgates for ever-increasing additional ludicrous agendas which are destructive to society as a whole.
After this vote, the same social justice worriers in the form of feminists, etc. would do well to heed their own rhetoric over the last couple of decades: "No means NO!" But of course that won't happen. A clear no will spark off a new round of new world order and new-age brainwashing via the education system, the mass media, and 'entertainment' from Hollyweird, combined with their usual propaganda and tactics of criticsing, shaming, and making false connections of logic and whines of bigotry, when in reality they are some of the biggest bigots in existence. That has been proven by the shaming and mocking that has gone on throughout. But when it falls in a heap, they'll try it on again, and again, in the hope they get their way. Because in their altered reality, the 'need' of the (very) few outweigh the common sense of the overwhelming majority.
You are the one doing the provoking by bringing politics here via your avatar.
Don’t pretend to be offended when YOU are the one bringing it.
Sounds like you have a diagnosis already.
You just need to either treat it, or find ways of reducing the impact.Go see a podiatrist. You may have feet issues which are compounding your knee issues.
See a remedial massage therapist. Get some mobility drills for your itb, quads, hamstrings and lower legs.
PRP, TRT, HGH, Peptides?
No idea if they would help, but I don't think these have been suggested.
Also, I have seen an Aboriginal healer. He 'blew' into me. Unsure if it did anything, but it was interesting.
Sounds interesting, care to elaborate?
Have you seen a podiatrist to see if you have any gait abnormalities that's contributing to it? you said certain exercises help - if you havent already look into hydrotherapy.
Thank you, I haven't seen a podiatrist but am considering it now as a few others have mentioned it, it certainly wouldn't do any harm. The same with hydrotherapy, really works with my mates hip and hear a lot of great things about it.
Doctor/physician trainee here. I wouldn't suggest pretty much any alternative health avenue when it comes to pains like this. As others have said, If what they were offering had evidence it worked then it would be mainstream medicine. Save your time, money and health. Accupuncture could be worth a crack. Limited harm if you don't go to a dodgy traditional practitioner. Some GPs will even do it. Nutrition wise might find some help as well.
Unfortunately chronic pains like yours are a bugger to treat. The classic arthroscopy procedures the surgeons will do have poor evidence that they're of any real benefit in a lot of cases.
I haven't read the entire thread but do you have a specific diagnosis for the cause of the pain? Have you had an MRI of the joint? Other imaging modalities can be poor at seeing tendon/ligament injury.
My suggestion would be see a GP who specialises in sports medicine. Knee injuries would be their bread and butter, but be prepared that totally fixing it may not be realistic.
Ill check with a mate who's an expert around nutrition/vitamins if he has any suggestions on stuff you can try from that angle.
Otherwise simple stuff that often helps include some water bases exercise, weight loss if relevant (sounds like you're fit), and perhaps take a look at your gait and consider a podiatrist for orthotics if relevant.
Edit:
A mate runs a group of vitamin companies. He's a PhD biochemist and chemical engineer himself and his dad who founded the company is a PhD biochemist and was previously with the AIS doing nutrition for our Olympic team. His company sells a 'joint tissue' product which contains Chondroitin sulfate, leucine, valine, glycine, lysine, creatine, vit c, b6, Selenium, bit of copper, boron plus glucosamine. On top of that he suggests 'Inflammation Curcumin, look for a meriva, therecurmin or longveda form of it. Higher absorption. N-acetyl glucosamine is also a good anti inflammatory for joints. Then the glucosamine hydrochloride is needed for cartilage. Then things like collagen hell even jelly is just hydrolysed collagen' also "Another good product is repaiase. Which is your anti inflammatory area. Quercetin, rutin, magnesium, vit c, Bromelain, zinc, vit e, vit a"
Also fish oils high in EPA have evidence for anti-inflammatory benefits.I've not looked into any of that myself so I can't validate any of the evidence behind the products. Give it a crack if you fancy. I can't see how anything suggested could be harmful if not taken in silly doses.
Thank you for the response. Much appreciated.
You say acupuncture may be worth a crack, it what way could this help? I'm open to anything at this stage really:)
Do you have the name of your friends company or where I could purchase the joint tissue product? This would be really appreciated.Make up your mind mate.
I wouldn't suggest pretty much any alternative health avenue when it comes to pains like this. As others have said, If what they were offering had evidence it worked then it would be mainstream medicine.
I've not looked into any of that myself so I can't validate any of the evidence behind the products. Give it a crack if you fancy. I can't see how anything suggested could be harmful if not taken in silly doses.
Then you suggest acupuncture and supplements without knowing if they have any evidence.
I'm not suggesting that these things don't have evidence. (A quick look at cochrane reviews suggests acupuncture has an evidence bases in certain areas but one would have to look at it more closely. Similarly some of the vitamins/supplements you have mentioned have had RCT's looking at them but most of them don't. )
Last but not least what is a silly dose? People who end up with liver failure related to green tea extracts and other "health foods" surely did not think they were taking a silly dose.
Well it depends on what you consider complimentary and what is 'alternative'. Proper supplements and good nutrition is medicine, no alternativeness about it. They're just often used in a bullshit way and people often makes claims for them that far outstrip their actual clinical benefit. Acupuncture as well, is not really 'alternative medicine' anymore depending on the claims that are being made for it. It's performed by GPs in clinics. It has a modicum of evidence for treating low back pain at the least and in a proper setting is pretty harmless.
I consider those as leagues away from having an indigenous elder blow on you, or having a chiropractor crack your neck to fix your knee, or having a naturopath take you off your medicines in favour of some cayenne pepper.
A silly dose would be beyond what is prescribed on a regulated and controlled substance. There are few vitamins that you are likely to come to any harm taking the recommended dose on the box. Some common sense would be recommended.
The problem with the supplement industry is how poorly regulated it is. If you're taking something from Blackmores or whatever then yeah its probably got in it more or less what it does. But you can very easily buy shit that is not controlled, has no evidence for any of its claims, and has no evidence that it contains what it says on the box.
eg: My friends company has a lab for checking out the components of compounds. Last year they checked out some new dietary supplement you could buy in Brisbane from a particular chinese herbal store. It was beta blockers (a prescription heart medication) and amphetamines and contained none of the claimed herbs.
Again, common sense is recommended, if the claims seem bullshit they probably are. If the product seems dodgy, it probably is.
Alternative medicine that works is called “medicine”
Alternative medicine that doesn’t work is said to “promote wellness”, an expression specially crafted for legal reasons
If you think it can help, cant hurt you never know might go through the Placebo effect. Interesting study on Placebo effect and knee surgery - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqGSeFOUsLI
Looks interesting, the power of the mind has to be taken into account, positive thinking and so on, thank you for the post!
Mate i hope u read this comment. This is tried & tested by my grand father. Just start doing simple exercises. Very simple ones. No weights or gym. Try half- sit-ups. Don’t stress or bear pain. Also try lying on your back with legs in air do as if u r cycling. Just do 15 mins for 2 to 3 days then 30 mins daily after that. Tell me how u feel after two weeks. Don’t cheat.
Thank you, sounds very interesting, I'll look into this.
yep you might find that its a game changer!
Some of the old ways can often be the best!
I for one do not think a single ounce of good can come from continuing this thread and have asked for it to be closed. It has been interesting, but I ask for your support on shutting it down before it gets ugly.
placebos work for a certain percentage of people. The fact you asked this question means it might be suitable for you. Best of luck in your recovery
Placebos are an interesting subject, the power of the mind is quite a force.
This truly highlights the intellect of "no" voters… going to an "aboriginal healer" for knee problems
haha true, I thought it was a troll too although some of their previous posts seem legit
Just for the record this thread is 100% legitimate. I have picked up so many great ideas so far and am very grateful for this. There are many good people that have helped and 1 day I hope to repay them for their kindness.
When you went to the physio, did they give you exercises?
And if so did you follow their methods and schedules religiously?
Physio is all about the exercises and is the only solution.
Light, tailored exercises 2-4 times a day to strengthen all the surrounding muscles is the best possible solution.
Iv'e been doing the exercises and they really help. At the moment I'm doing:-
10 second squat holds
Rolled up towel under back of knee and exerting pressure.
They also gave me a couple of hip exercises.Been doing them regularly and would love to get these muscles built up gradually.
Stick with it.
You might not think that 10 repetitions 2-3 times a day are doing much, but it is building strength.
Keep to it.
Oh and if you ever go to a physio who does not give you exercises, go somewhere else.
Thank you, I suppose little and often is the key to building strength.
Thank you for the support, I'll make sure I keep the exercises going!
I agree. A huge part of any intervention, Physio or otherwise is your ability to persist with it. It takes years for your knees to become painful. It's ludicrous to think that any normal degeneration in them will be undone quickly. These things take time, persistence and patience.
I don't think it really matters which avenue of healthcare you follow, pseudo or otherwise, there is no such thing as a magic bullet.I think persistence is so key and they don't sell it in pill form! That bits up to me and is a massive part of the jigsaw puzzle.
Try wet cupping
it's really good for joint pains
it may also be called Chinese wet cupping
It's quite popular is Muslim culture and Chinese cultureThanks mate,
Iv'e heard of this before, is this something to do at home or go to a professional?
I don't think so you can do it at home
Generally done by Naturo Pahs or Chinese Acupuncture
Some people do home visit to do it as well
Make sure it is done through someone qualified as they need to know the anatomy of the human body as well as what is wet cupping?ok, thank you, very good to know:)
They have something called relaxing liquid, works well for all aliments, very popular.
Thank you, sounds good, I'll look up!
@Newplace: Thank you, this sounds like a really great idea. Random do gooder, that made me chuckle!