I have terrible knees and have tried about a dozen different avenues so far. I'm considering going to see an Aboriginal healer.
Have any of you lovely people taken this route before?
Thank you in advance.
Anyone Visited an Aboriginal Healer before?
lookatthesizeofthat on 28/09/2017 - 19:57
Last edited 29/09/2017 - 15:37 by 1 other user
Last edited 29/09/2017 - 15:37 by 1 other user
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@lookatthesizeofthat: Knee specialist first, shoes later. My wife's knee is gradually improving because she goes to water aerobics or something with a similar name.
@PJC: That sounds like the correct process, my friend mentioned water, works wonders for his hip, I'll put that on my ever growing positive list!
@lookatthesizeofthat: "somedays i give up, I just pick up and dust off the next day!"
Hopefully it is fairy dust :-)
Professional athletes often use water therapy when recovering from chronic injuries
@lookatthesizeofthat: In case you miss above… I'd be looking overseas too. Sport is a much larger industry in the USA for example. There might be some kind of stem cell injection, etc. Once you have that knowledge (if it's out there), then check cheaper countries like where people get cheap cosmetic surgery, to see if they have it available.
I've found most doctors (GPs anyway) are hopeless. They'll hand out pills promoted by some kid just out of school representing a drug company, before treating the cause. I'd be approaching someone with years of experience dealing with sports injuries. Also muscle-strengthening (not muscle-building) exercise. i.e. I met a guy once that helped people with back pain. He said developing the muscles was part of the answer to back pain. Probably a bit harder with the knee, but still…
Iv'e seen so many GP's already and I really liked them all. Having said that they act merely as a middleman and direct you elsewhere, most of the time they were filling out paperwork instead of addressing the problem! Iv'e seen a few physios and am seriously considering getting a trained professional on skype that has great reviews that can help with the knee. Thank you Greg, you have a wonderful insight and I fully appreciate your help mate.
@lookatthesizeofthat: They're trained at the same universities, teaching the same things. You have to be lucky to find someone that keeps updating their information, who doesn't only consider what the mainstream has to offer: take this drug, keep making appointments forever and we'll try different drugs. I have a pretty low opinion of GPs. Partially because I've read their medical journals in their waiting rooms about treatments - then asked them about any new treatments I've just read - and had them say there are none with a blank stare. (Obviously they don't even read the journals they subscribe to.) And partially because I've never found a good one. And I've known a couple of doctors personally that I watched go through Uni, who I'd hesitate sending an enemy's sick dog to for help.
I'd be looking online - particularly the USA, or Thailand is it(?) where those cheap operations are done. American football/basketball related maybe? Look for the doctors all saying the same; then look for the one they're all telling people to avoid; then look for what their PATIENTS are saying about them.
Maybe there's overseas sports forums/sports medical forums? Keep looking here at the same time, but keep in mind most doctors, etc. have legal restrictions, so will follow the same safe path - that leads to this medication, that then leads to that side effect, that often then leads to being more miserable than before, or just as miserable but in a different way.
Those other places have millions of dollars poured into them by the sports industry. But here in Australia, doctors that step outside the common boundaries get discouraged from doing so, mocked, and/or sued. The motivation to do what everyone else around them does, is stronger than doing what's best sometimes. Maybe the answer isn't here, but elsewhere.
@GregMonarch: I think I'll spread the net further than Australia, The USA certainly seems to be a little more advanced in knee treatment. The Thai's have interesting approaches to health and I do use a Thai balm on the legs to improve blood flow.
so you were anally probed by aliens then?
Doesn't sound too bad
You just went to the pub and felt happy afterwards?
a rub & tug? you'll be feeling 20/10 afterwards.
Thanks nocure, just reading about it now, this looks great!
I wouldn't trust medical advice from 'nocure'
Lol, he puts up great deals and I love him, would be great to hear from anyone who has used Bowen therapy before.
Ahh good old Bowen therapy
Bowen therapy is indeed interesting. It could be worth investigating. It can be great for biomechanical issues.
Do you mind going into further details about your knees, like injuries or trauma in the past that caused this?
How long have you been dealing with this..I injured it 6 years ago playing sport, I already had a bipartite patella (This is where my injury was sustained) which has complicated matters. It was manageable for 5 years but the last year has been pretty rough.
The surgeon had only seen 2 cases like mine in 13 years of practice. I have spent 7 weeks in a leg brace (No bending whatsoever and onnly removed for shower time) Brace has been off for 10 weeks, still have muscle wastage.
Your surgeon, assuming s/he is any good, would be the best person to advise you what's best for you to do.
Obviously you'll need to rebuild your muscles.
Mate, i feel ya. When you have serious injuries and chronic pain, you'll try just about anything. But there's no such thing as spiritual healing.
I'm assuming you've done MRIs of your knees?
I hear you, ty. Going to another surgeon for a second opinion, have done x-rays and 2 MRIs.
If you had a bipartite patella pre injury, did you have similar pain pre injury, and is this a progression of that condition. or is this pain only post injury and has deteriorated?
ROM brace 6 years post injury might be a little late for healing, but did it help from your point of view? Did pain get better? Did pain get worse? As you said muscle wasting would be expected, and as others have suggested - exercise to build muscle should help recoved muscle mass but may not necessarily help with pain - surely the 5 PTs youve seen ahve already asked you to do strengthening exercises
If it is just wear and tear ie. OA, evidence supports physio / TKR (if physio fails), annecdotaly I hear amazing things about tumeric from some but I suspect it just provides pain relief (Wont heal the wear). AFAIK evidence for glucosamine etc is poor. Since you have seen 5 PTs and sometimes struggle to even walk, that your next evidence based approach would be some sort of orthopaedics
Alternatively, since you have money…try other less evidence based methods suggested here and hope the placebo effect works its magic.
A part of me wonders whether when stem cell treatments get good enough, whether those who have gone for a TKR (10-25 year lifespan) can still get stem cells as bone/cartilage have already been taken out. Food for thought
The brace really helped a lot, the surgeon didn't want to operate and was very clear on the matter. The pain is less after the brace which is a massive positive and my diet has improved the pain with more alkaline foods (I admit I love a good steak though)!
Iv'e been drinking a mixture of turmeric, black pepper, coconut oil and gelatine and it seems to help with inflammation.
I'll have a look into the stem cells subject, there are massive ongoing changes with approaches to the knees and joints in general, I have much to learn and you have really helped out, thank you so much.
Be careful what you meddle with. If the spirit world is real and it work, you do not know what you are giving yourself over to.
can you go into greater detail please? I'm genuinely interested.
…
I'll PM you :)
ty:)
Capture me a Haunter or Ganger If you see one
It's ok. I resealled the 9 tails demon in a while baby this time…
I've had knee problems for 2 decades, one knee led to the other knee having issues. I have seen dozens of doctors and physios and specialists.
The first thing you should do is see a local solicitor who deals with worker's compensation for advice. They deal with lots of health problems, and know all the best local doctors in your area. Then once you have a list of names, go to a trusted GP, who can go over that list with you, and give you his/her opinions.
Keep in mind, not all specialists are trustworthy, some want to always do surgery even if you do not need surgery, as that is what makes them the most money, sure its not ethical, but sometimes they put their own interests above yours. That is why you should always get 2nd and 3rd opinions if they want to operate.
It might require you to see several specialists before you find one you want as your treating specialist, this is an expensive process. Once you find the specialist you think you can trust. Go over all your options with them. Then research it all yourself. If you are unhappy with the answer ask the specialist to convene a panel of specialists to look over your case, usually this happens once a month and can involve 20-30 specialists who go over your clinical notes and come to a consensus.
Just remember doctors aren't perfect, even if you have the correct surgery if you even end up needing surgery, doesnt mean you will not have problems in the future.
(edit) i should add, that after you find that specialist you trust, you should get a 3 foot weight bearing xray, and a mri. This provides the information the specialist will need to make a decision on where to go next. Then if needed seek the panel of doctors to review your case.
Thank you garetz. I'm sorry to learn of your bad knees, having said that I'm so happy with your words. I can relate to everything you have said in the post and have jotted down some notes. The meeting between specialists and discussing the issue sounds like a great idea, I never knew this existed, I can't thank you enough.
No probs, i'm glad my experience can help someone else.
I'm not a Dr but know of people who have had knee replacements at a young age due to sporting injuries whom had instant relief after knee replacement surgery (didn't know netball was that hard on your knees). They had no relief from years of physio and treatment. Don't know if surgery is the appropriate treatment for the OP's condition and I'm sure there are downsides to surgery but it definitely a viable option.
By all means, see a few Drs and get opinions and discuss the pros and cons of surgery and treatments without surgery.
Like others have said. medicine is an inexact science and there's more than one way to skin a cat.
You raise some great points. I have both a congenital bone issue and worn out knees … the ex GP calling them stuffed!
I have had the specialist panel done to reach a decision, so yes it is possible even in a public system for cases that warrant it. It's not something they would do for run of the mill things though, having been an RN For years. In my case I attended and had an examination in front of the team. It was more thorough than any appt and interesting as he gave a verbal account of what he was seeing, feeling etc. it was a teaching exercise for the registrars & residents too. Then they discussed me with my other tests results etc as well but I was not there for that.
I have had muscle wastage issues for years due to surgeries past for the congenital issue and complications (starting at 3 1/2).
My own experience and with a former elite athlete son, Physio's are the best at examining and knowing soft tissue injuries. An experienced one can palpate and test and feel where all ligament and tendon tears are without an MRI and assess other things too. For example, I dislocated my patella. The orthopaedic surgeons (2) said it had gone back into place and was correctly positioned. A public hospital Physio (where i was working) - I had gone to change the brace A & E had given me as it was faulty. He examined me, taped it showing me how to do it. That was far more secure than the new brace he gave me. He also said that my patella was in position but was tilted slightly. I word the brace only to appts at the orthopaedic clinic.
I had pain for months and months and my GP referred me to that second ortho privately. He said I had patella femoral pain and it would never go away. I happened to go to a naturopath a few years later who was a Swiss trained doctor and had all sorts of other qualifications I didn't know about. On a visit he examined the knee and said my patella was tilted and he corrected it seconds, with no more pain again since then. The Physio had been right without anything other than examination.
A would never call a Physio and make an appt without knowing the physio is senior and experienced rather than a graduate or student … and it helps if they have a specialty in knees.
If you have wear and tear that means you are losing cartilage, then stem cells replacement is a hope but only if there is cartilage remaining. If isn't going to fuse bone .., though it could in theory with the right medicos.
There are heaps of sharks offering stem cell but they are just that sharks.
There is a team in Melbourne that has done a long research program and Is opening for public procedures now. They have shown actual rejuvenation of cartilage and improvement to normal functioning. It is a great alternative to a knee replacement and they use your own stem cells.
Melbourne Stem Cell Centre. Ensure that the website talks about the research project just in case I have confised it. Thrupp have also been working in back, neck and many other issues other than knees.
Many others I looked at have no signs of an evidence base To back up their claims of success. A good sign of this is no references or any claims of success. Also not being open about their qualifications.
A place that takes out blood and puts it straight back in that day is not as likely to succeed as one who takes their sample one day and a second visit inserts the isolated and treated stem cells who are primed to target the knee regeneration.
It was $12000 during research but they were floating $8000 prices - but a private knee replacement - even with when nsurance - is much more. There is much more risk of complications with that as well. I also read that research is showing the new technique of TKR over 5 years can be superior to the previous technique but 30% of cases are much worse. Test is 5 years later they are worse off.
stem cells are out gif me as I am bone in bone. Need some cartilage
Torn ligaments will never repair. However, physio can help new supporting strycture to form all of almost all of the attenth to perform sufficiently .
Thank you so much for an honest account. I'm sorry to hear of your knees, it's no fun but your'e resolute and I really love that, gives me a real lift in a difficult period.
The data with stem cells looks quite worrying and I'd been hesitant about going down that route personally. The research you've done must have taken a long time and I can;t thank you enough for posting on this thread.
i once visited the dream time
Have you thought about essential oils? I use medicinal grade oils daily with great relief.
Ty, for the reply, I'm using lemon essential oil for the veins and oregano oil for pain. What oils do you use?
Quick warning: there is no regulation around the term "medicinal grade" or "therapeutic grade" with relation to essential oils in Australia, the US, England, and likely other countries. If you're paying extra for oils because they're marked as medicinal grade, you should probably stop - as it is likely just a ploy to make them sound more legitimate than they actually are.
What I mean by 'medicinal' is in regard to their purity rather than the crap that you buy at the health food shop.
Same thing applies, though. Without verification you could easily be paying through the nose for something that's touted as pure when it's chemically or practically identical to everything else.
I could buy some cheap stuff, relabel it as pure, and sell it for five times the price tomorrow.
Although, there's also the question of whether purer snake oil is any better than normal snake oil, but that's for another day.
Can you run with your dodgy knees? Best not to go to an Aboriginal healer if you can't run (away) fast…I wouldn't imagine these types of quacks setting up shop in a reputable part of town.
I'm not able to run, to be honest I'm happy I can barely walk some days!
Where is this reputable part of town you talk of?
Just ask any healer you see in the park for some of what they're having/using, you'll forget your knees are hurting.
In all seriousness though, you'd be best seeing a qualified medical professional.
How did you settle on aboriginal healer as a last resort?
It's not a last resort just an idea. Iv'e researched dozens of different ways and tried so many different things. For some reason I feel a deep connection with Aboriginal people. Something in my gut, unscientific, I know.
It might be worth it, in that case, beliefs are really powerful and can affect your health.
Given that Aboriginal life expectancy pre-colonisation is widely believed to be around 30-40, I'm not sure that an Aboriginal Healer would be all that helpful… unless early death is what you are after.
30-40? wow, that's extremely low indeed. I know it's a little off topic (Only a little) but where would I find good data on this subject?
Life expectancy for 19th Century English coalminers was 32.
That's a strike off the old bucket list
G̶o̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶c̶h̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶1̶9̶t̶h̶ ̶c̶e̶n̶t̶u̶r̶y̶ ̶E̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶c̶o̶a̶l̶m̶i̶n̶e̶r̶
Life expectancy for a butterfly is a day. Tragic right?
As a fish/turtle hybrid I really feel sorry for you humans and your low life expectancy
Vote: 30-40? wow, that's extremely low indeed. I know it's a little off topic (Only a little) but where would I find good data on this subject?
99c: Everyone, everywhere basically died at that age or earlier. For example in the bad old days before orthodox medicine, half of all babies died. Capt Cook for example had 10 kids and only 2 made it to adulthood, the rest died from all sorts of nasties which have been solved by modern medicine.
Medicine in any culture or any land was really terrible, people died all over the place, its why they had so many kids. Aboriginal or any other medicine was basically worthless, maybe it had some good ideas but it also had some terrible ideas that probably would have killed you, a bit like how mercury was taken for all sorts of ills until recent times.
This is basic knowledge.
60,000+ years of human existence in Australia alone, you only went back 300 years.
What happened to the other 59,700 years?
60,000+ years of human existence in Australia alone, you only went back 300 years
What happened to the other 59,700 years?
I dont need to mention 500 or 1000 or 10k years, it was all bad. Everybody was dying from disease and sickness. Families had lots of kids and very few became adults.
@ninetyNineCents: Can you send me link for the last 10,000 years? Considering it was all bad, you make some mighty claims, so back them up.
@ninetyNineCents: So you have no clue about the last 60,000+ and put a throw away comment in there to back it up. Man up. Keep playing to the crowd, they love a show.
THe first clue is look at the world population. THere is a direct link between the steep rise in the graph and the discoveries and invention sof modern medicine. If things were even close to what we have in Australia, the big families of the past would have resulted in population explosion a long time ago.
Just look at Aboriginals, they have been hear 50k years or more and yet at best had a million or two here when the europeans arrived. Thats a very slow increase, compared to say the time after white mans arrival together with modern medicine has aided population increase. Just look at the 1800s and the past 50 years of Australia, the population has increased because of modern medicine even though families have relatively small numbers these days.
So you have no clue about the last 60,000+ and put a throw away comment in there to back it up. Man up. Keep playing to the crowd, they love a show.
WTF ?
DO i really need to point out how small the aboriginal population was after 60k years ?
THere were so few because life was hard, people died all the time, very few kids made it to adulthood.
If things were brilliant, there would be billions of aboriginals by the time of european arrival.
@ninetyNineCents: You have no clue about the history of Australia. Go and learn before you teach boy.
You have no clue about the history of Australia.
Really because you say so ?
Go and learn before you teach boy.
Wow you know so much and yet you have so little grace to share ytour knowledge.
If aboriginal life was so great and everything was wonderful, how come there were so few aboriginals here after 60k years ?
60,000+ years of human existence in Australia alone, you only went back 300 years.
Capt cook had his kids around the same time he was travelling the world with his "discovery" of Australia in 1770… thats 250 not 300 years.
Genius.
@ninetyNineCents: 99 cents, you started a very delicate topic with a heavy hand. There is so much history but you can only back 300 years out of 60,000+ so I'd imagine your knowledge of Australia is limited. It's a numbers game.
There is so much history but you can only back 300 years out
I didnt go back only 300 years, i said life 300 years was filled with lots of people dying from disease and sickness. I also said it was even worse before that.
Before 300 years ago includes 60000 years.
so I'd imagine your knowledge of Australia is limited. It's a numbers game.
Typical loser, you cant even comprehend my comments and you cant share or teach me anything… so you resort to adhom attacks.
You dont obviously know jack shit, so you stick the only thing you can manage and that is worthless insults.
Grow up loser.
@ninetyNineCents: Well then show proof to 60,000+ years ago and stop talking nonsense. I'd love to hear but you have nothing, very sad indeed. You made the claims and failed to back them up.
Well then show proof to 60,000+ years ago and stop talking nonsense
proof of what ?
Learn how to write complete sentences…
I'd love to hear but you have nothing, very sad indeed. You made the claims and failed to back them up.
I did provide proof that life and lots of people died from disease and illness. Remember when i said there were less than a million AFTER 60000 years of habitation.
Guess why there were so few aboriginals after SUCH A LONG TIME ?
Do i really need to prove to you that there werent a billion aboriginals before white man ?
@ninetyNineCents: Dude, you love to talk about white people. I'm talking about 60,000+ years of history, I'm very proud of it too. No need to shout either boy.
I'm talking about 60,000+ years of history,
You havent said a single thing about any of that history.
i never died aboriginals had a history all i said was life was hard back then before white man.
Grow up and stop being a racist jerk. I never denied anything.
No need to shout either boy.
So answer the question. Bring something to the conversation instead of your worthless insults.
You obviously have a complex problem and think aboriginal medicine was great. It wasnt, it didnt cure cancer, blood pressure, diabetes or anything. IT was crap just like all other medical cures all over the world.
They have got lucky here and there but overall it was a disaster, just like all other ancient medicine.
Racist? Oh dear, now I suggest you stop, you crossed the line. I refute that accusation 100%. This is the end of the matter from my end.,
@ninetyNineCents: there's a small population because back when the settlers came they decimated the indigenous population by eg. spreading smallpox, killings, seizures of land. Population at lowest estimate pre-colonisation was 300k, by 1900 it had dropped to 90k. And since then, there's been some pretty shit circumstances extending to even now.
You really don't know any history, educate yourself lol.
den: there's a small population because back when the settlers came they decimated the indigenous population by eg. spreading smallpox, killings, seizures of land
99: I clearly was referring to the aboriginal population when white man arrived and it was lets be generous a million. Im not talking about today or even 50 years after whiteman, im talking at 1788.
Population at lowest estimate pre-colonisation was 300k, by 1900 it had dropped to 90k.
Except i wasnt talking about 1900 or 1800 i was talking about aboriginal populations at the time when sydney was settled. Life was hard BEFORE whiteman, it was hard everywhere on all continents for all peoples.
So do us all a favour and stop the whiteman killed aboriginal topic, thats completely unnecessary, this thread was purely about the fact there was so few aboriginals, because their medicine was in effective.
Racist? Oh dear, now I suggest you stop, you crossed the line. I refute that accusation 100%
Your trying to pretend with your incomplete sentences, that i am denying aboriginals were here for 60k. I havent done that at all, ive mentioned that from the beginning.
I also mentioned that life was hard 60k and even in 1788, people got sick had illnesses and aboriginal medicine failed most of the time. Thats why there were few of them.
Aboriginals didnt invent computers, cure cancer, or goto the moon, so stop pretending that life was beautiful and nobody died before whiteman arrived.
Get it ?
Racist? Oh dear, now I suggest you stop, you crossed the line. I refute that accusation 100%.
Dude, you love to talk about white people.
When did i mention white or black or people of any race ?
You are the one who brought this up.
At no stage did i mention race i was merely referring to the medical knowledge and practice. What a loser you are, is it really a crime to mention the aboriginals also didnt have cars before whiteman ? Of course not its just a fact.
@ninetyNineCents: Actually, it's not clear at all.
What is completely unnecessary is you spouting how Aboriginal healing is the reason there was a small population compared to Western populations of the same time. There's probably hundreds of other factors, like the fact that Australia is mainly a desert almost entirely isolated from the world?
You seem to mix up medicine with healing and seem to be very uneducated about the topic. Almost all of the first medicines came from compounds used in ancient medicines. There's some that don't work like using mercury and some that are now drugs today like opium/morphine.
Take China for example, who use both East and West medicine. They have the largest population in the world and still use ancient medicine. A lot of Western scholarship discounts Chinese medicine, yet people believe it still works. And according to your faulty argument, this belief is true because of their large population.
You can be close minded and believe only "true, tested Western medicine" is the only option, but it's poor of you to make someone feel bad for trying something else. Because if you have read OP's replies, Western medicine isn't helping.
There's probably hundreds of other factors, like the fact that Australia is mainly a desert almost entirely isolated from the world?
Isolation is irrelevant, that makes no difference in judging why after 60k years there were so few them. THis isnt a question about immigration its a discussion initiated by me, why after all that time in such a large land there were so few.
Look at the desert parts of africa, or the middle east, some of which are much harsher and lets just pretend roughly the same size, they had tens of millions.
You seem to mix up medicine with healing and seem to be very uneducated about the topic
Dont call me names. if im wrong share with me facts that prove me wrong.
Almost all of the first medicines came from compounds used in ancient medicines.
Again you dont think critically and udnerstand that while many of our medicines are from ancient cultures, no argument there, but that doesnt change th e fact these same ancient practices most of the time got it wrong.
When people are sick and you get it wrong like that people die, there are no second chances.
In ancient times child birth was a risky and dangerous procedure for mum and baby. Today we are lucky and the vast percentage of mums and babies survive including caesarian births which are relatively popular. In ancient times basically no culture had this option, mum would die and maybe the baby would be cut out. IM not talking about caesarian births as an easy option, im simply pointing out that many times its the only way to save mum and baby.
Thats a fact, it doesnt matter if any culture had a cure for the flu, they didnt couldnt help mum and baby and im only starting to show you a few other deadly examples solved by modern medicine.
ake China for example, who use both East and West medicine. They have the largest population in the world and still use ancient medicine
So what if they do, that doesnt make it right or the best. THere are dozens of countries today with hundreds of millions of people that still marry underage girls.
THose that marry underage girls outnumber ALL the peope in the west, so your argument about popularity is another failure.
Science isnt a popularity contest , truth is only determined by the facts, and the facts show modern medicine is vastly suprioer in the vast majority of cases.
A lot of Western scholarship discounts Chinese medicine, yet people believe it still works.
I humbly suggest that you check what "belief" means in a dictionary. It means to accept something as truth without any evidence or proof.
I dont care if the believe it works because the facts are it doesnt. Chinese medicine doesnt work for many of todays diseases, again i give the example of mums and caesarian births.
And according to your faulty argument, this belief is true because of their large population.
A belief that has no basis in facts that proves chinese medicine is overall a better solution for the vast majority of cases.
The facts show that in the end, modern medicine is a clear winner in the vast majority of diseases, from brain surgey, cancers, diabetes, kidney failure, childbirth, even lsimple old appendicities. No other cultural medicine even knew about to perform operations that solve many of todays medical problems from cancers, and more.
You can be close minded and believe only "true, tested Western medicine" is the only option, but it's poor of you to make someone feel bad for trying something else.
Im not close minded at all, im simply asking for evidence that anything works ?
If it works and has a good record of helping people, show it to me, and thats where the problem is, most of these alternative medicines are bullshit and when put to test they all fail.
but it's poor of you to make someone feel bad for trying something else.
Wrong, its about being honest and letting people make informed decisions based on proven facts.
If something works, show me the clinical trials that show it worked in the past.
Would you want to be the first passenger on a plane that has never been flown or tested or do you want to be the 1 millionth ?
YOu should be asking for something this important, facts that demonstrate this procedure or medicine is safe, works and has helped people, not because someone tells you but because its been tested by dozens if not hundreds of different hospitals all over the world.
Lets not forget that these ancient medicines also are so scientific they believe in nonsense like spirits, bad luck and other absolute bullshit.
Isolation is irrelevant
Wrong. Isolation means you don't share knowledge, trade routes, resources with other countries. This would hinder advancement and experience.
THose that marry underage girls outnumber ALL the peope in the west, so your argument about popularity is another failure.
I don't understand what marrying underage girls have to do with medicine. Also this is your argument. You said, if medicine was good, why were there so little Indigenous Australians? India and China have the largest populations, that makes their medicine good, no?
I humbly suggest that you check what "belief" means in a dictionary. It means to accept something as truth without any evidence or proof.
Here's the definition of 'belief': "an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof."
Medicine is still a field that still requires PLENTY of research, we are nowhere near knowing the depth of medicine so discounting all ancient medicine is poor - if you do, you are discounting another opportunity to find a new compound. I used a Chinese anti-itching cream for a mystery skin condition in which none of the Western anti-itching creams prescribed to me were working. The Chinese cream worked well enough for my GP to ask for the details of the cream. Here's an article supporting the studies of alternative medicine to find more compounds for modern medicine.
Would you want to be the first passenger on a plane that has never been flown or tested or do you want to be the 1 millionth ?
There have been plenty of people who have used Aboriginal medicine before. I doubt OP would be as stupid to try out dangerous options.
Lets not forget that these ancient medicines also are so scientific they believe in nonsense like spirits, bad luck and other absolute bullshit.
You can be Christian and still be a doctor lol?
I'm not saying ancient medicine will work 100%, but believing they're 100% useless is just incorrect and close-minded.
99: Isolation is irrelevant
den: Wrong. Isolation means you don't share knowledge, trade routes, resources with other countries. This would hinder advancement and experience.
99: The problem is australia was not isolated or cut off from asia. In the past sea levels were considerably lower, and ev en today many locals cross the torres strait. In the past many people came from what we call indonesia. THis is irrelevant.
den: don't understand what marrying underage girls have to do with medicine.
99: I only mentioned this because you tried to pretend the proof of a medicine is a popularity content, when you said lots of chinese like chinese medicine. This is another failed distraction of yours.
den: Here's the definition of 'belief': "an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof."
99: Exactly so provide proof that aboriginal traditional medicine solves any problem. Remember each solution only covers that one problem.
Feel free to use scholar.google.com, if it should take you seconds to find multiple trials and papers to prove your point. If you cant then you dont have any evidence.
Den: Medicine is still a field that still requires PLENTY of research, we are nowhere near knowing the depth of medicine so discounting all ancient medicine is poor
99: Thats right and aboriginals of old times pre european didnt do any research. So lets be fair anything they found was pure luck and given how hard life is, you dont get second chances in the old days, you die.
Eat the wrong berry in the bush and you could die, a few may be good and safe but its just too risky to try.
den: . I used a Chinese anti-itching cream for a mystery skin condition in which none of the Western anti-itching creams prescribed to me were working.
99: Thats good, but you forget that only proves that one cream solves one problem for you. I hope i dont have to explain to you that just because it works for you isnt proof in itself.
Lets just pretend this cream does work, that still isnt proof for all other traditional chinese medicine for all sorts of other medical problems. Each treatement is only valid for the things it has been repeatedly tested for.
den: Here's an article(theconversation.com) supporting the studies of alternative medicine to find more compounds for modern medicine.
99: That article provides no links to any peer reviewed clinical trials, so its therefore worthless.
In our modern world there is a certain level of professionalism required in all serious activities and endeavours. WHen boeing has a new plane or changes an old one, it goes thru enormous amounts of testing and certification to proof its safe and works as expected. So does modern medicine.
That person is dishonest, if you are going to make big claims you can at least be honest enough to provide proof that said thing works. So where is the proof ?
den: You can be Christian and still be a doctor lol?
99: THey arent really christians at all. Most christians from even 100 years all the way back to jesus would say the same because todays christians ignore the bible and do things they would find abhorent.
Words are cheap, how many christians do you think trust what the bible claims in Mark 16, wher eit says that christans can handle snakes and drink poison and wont be harmed ?
Probably almost zero, therefore by the bibles own test they arent christian now are they ?
den: I'm not saying ancient medicine will work 100%, but believing they're 100% useless is just incorrect and close-minded.
99: The problem you fail to understand is that wasting time on nonsense can be deadly or have harmful consequences. TIme wasted on fake medicine is time many people might not have. IM just saying stick to what is proven to be safe and works at least you give yourself or your family and friends the best chance. Why waste it on bullshit that has never been proven ?
Use Google like i did.
The point is, if you wouldn't use mainstream medicine from hundreds of years ago, why would you use traditional medicine from hundreds of years ago?I'm more of a Duckduckgo kind of fella.
Wow, that's epic, ty!
in all seriousness, try emu oil, its probably the magic potion you have heard of. I read some independent studies on it a few years back, and it was reported to have great results with lowering insulin levels and easing arthritis, and it sounds like you got arthritis in the knees. Drink a tsp if you can stomach it or put it into vegecaps, and rub it on your knees.
I just checked out the reviews and they are very positive indeed. I love using all kinds of oils. I'm going to get some of this the next time ebay has a deal (Bad knees don't stop me saving a buck, lol)
I read some independent studies on it a few years back, and it was reported to have great results with lowering insulin levels and easing arthritis,
Nobody wants to lower insulin levels in diabetics.. diabetics are that way because they dont have enough insulin to help their body consume the carbos they eat.
Doesnt sound like a very "professional" study.
There are lots of things that help diabetics lower their insulin injections, that doesnt change the fact aboriginal and everyone elses ancient medicine often did more harm than help.
They sometimes got lucky the rest of the time they often killed you.
@PJC: Cheers, I'll be looking into this, I'm sure it will help.