I work in retail as a casual sales assistant, I was demoing a phone, an Iphone 6, to a customer. Customer took the phone in hand and bolted out of the shop, I instinctively chased him without thinking. Thankfully someone was there to stop him and grab him by the bag, he gave up as I think he saw the security guard in front of him. He did not struggle nor did the person who held his bag roughly handle him. I personally did not touch the shoplifter other than retrieving the phone, the security was thankfully right in front of this as this incident unfolded and took him away. What are the laws regarding this situation? Should I get in trouble? My shift ended shortly after so I did not get to see the outcome of what had happened.
I Chased a Shoplifter down and Retrieved a Stolen Item (What Are The Laws Regarding This Situation? Am I in Trouble?)
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Sorry I was unaware that OP was a lawyer and knew exactly the implications of their actions, and their rights and obligations as an employee. I imagine they also must be a mind reader and know exactly their employers expectations when an incident they learned this occurs.
What a pack of woosers we have here. Where has the Aussie spirit gone? Looks like the majority of you would have driven past the burning car that same brave stranger pulled the unconscious driver from this week.
Once I apprehended a shop lifter that had stolen a power tool from Kmart and was chased by staff. He ran into a hardware store, dropped the goods and proceeded to calmly work out. I grabbed him forcing him back into the store. The chasers from Kmart arrived and we finally got him into the staff room where he went berserk hitting me over the head with an outdoor plastic chair. Being 188CM and 90kg I wasn't letting him get the better of me. When the police arrived he turned as meek as a mouse.
Another time when I was doing Santa photos in David Jones Parramatta {I was the photographer not Santa} I saw a bloke reach under a ladies pram and take her purse. Jumped up, grabbed him in a bear hug and had a staff member call security.
Times change. What was ok 30, 20 or ten years ago isn't nowadays.
He hugged a man with a purse. :D
wrong
"Proceeded to calmly work out".
If he was "calmly working out" was he doing anything wrong?
Efforts to keep fit should be applauded!
But on a serious note, you sound like a person with significant behavioural issues who enjoys violence and is seeking to excuse it when you can.
Yeh because holding criminals accountable is a "behavioural" issue. Typical leftist nonsense. Make no comment about the criminal but call out the bloke who stopped them. Worlds gone soft.
Actually, holding criminals accountable is a police and legal system issue.
That's why it's developed over the last 1000 years or so.
You're obviously the sort of person who, if you lived in the US, would shoot anyone who came near your property.
And while you're at it - bring back vigilantes and lynching too!
@edwardcr:
Would shoot anyone who came near my property? Why the hell would I do that? Why make such a stupid assumption? Holding someone under a "citizens arrest" of sorts until the police/security come is entirely different to shooting someone on sight for trespassing….I sure hope you are just joking.
Apologies Ahbal - I was trying to be facetious, but I overdid it.
Let's just agree to disagree on the original question.
The legal system already recognises a citizens right to use force to stop offences that are being committed and detain the offender.
its a different story to put yourself at risk to save a life than to save a demo phone.
Good on you for chasing a shop lifter but that was a situation were you felt you were confident and could take the risk. What if the guy was 2m tall and 110kg? no doubt you wouldve had second thoughts.
You obviously did not see "Spiderman". One gets away with theft, he will try murder.
Call on bad behaviour before it gets out of hand. But this country is doomed.so you would chase down the offender in OP's situation? and be willing to accept whatever repercussions that may come of it?
@ENZA DENINO: Is this a trap question? Some hidden content?
Of course I would ( try ) to do the same. Depending on my reaction time and running capabilities.If people are afraid of "he might have a knife with him" they should never leave the house.
The difference being here that no one was in any danger. If you're bigger and are confident you can deal with someone with a weapon then fine, but most people aren't and they are under no obligation to put themselves at risk to rescue an inanimate object. If someone was at risk of harm then I don't think anyone here would be telling the OP they should have stayed out of it.
Well done OP though, I hope your boss gives you a big bonus.
Lost in the "not moy problem moyt" attitude that's common these days.
Hahahaha well, (profanity), mate. If you're willing to put your neck on the line for some (profanity) merchandise, more fool you.
I guess, there is no need to worry about…
Our hero ,
Just be glad you weren't stabbed with a syring
Having heard stories from towys about people getting their hands burnt off trying to pull kids from LPG gas fires ,I would take a second to think
Not saying I'm right or anyone's wrong
But I've seen teenagers who looked strung out stealing machetes from bcf and the staff said ' there they go '
'For the bcf management and shareholders I place you under citizen's arrest'
What springs to mind is the first fight scene in KickassIt used to be one of my favourite jobs at the supermarket I worked at back in the day (90's). Back before knives and ice addicts were so prolific, we would always chase down shoplifters, catch them, and make sure they had no desire to return to the store any time soon. Never got the cops involved as sometimes we might have had a bit of explaining to do about their appearance.
We were still doing that in early naughties. As everything changed we kind of had to as well. The business began training team in pretty much ignoring theft. We offer customer service to suspect shop lifters and leave them alone. Notify the police afterwards and nothing comes of it obviously. But we don't have to put up with knives, hammers, syringes etc.
At the end of the day 'I like to go home in the same condition I went to work in' 17 years in retail and it probably took me 15 years to realise it. Oh what a family does to you.
People steal millions every day in OZ- never ever seen the Aussie spirit in action bringing them to justice.
Don't expect to ever see it, because theft is part of Oz life now.
It's so sad. We see it with the police too, they are legislated to be hands off, and people take advantage of it. No longer will Police chase car thieves, (despite having cars designed for just that). They don't pursue criminals like the Apex gang, who run amok in Melbourne. They are just now talking about a shoot to kill policy being emplaced to combat terrorism. How is that not already a law?
Our society has been given reality checks, time and time again, but the vocal far left means that bullshit legislation is passed which ties the hands of the very people who are supposed to protect us. Instead they are relegated to walking around train stations at night, and making sure people are within 3kmh of the already too low speed limit.
Because the real theft doesn't happen like in cartoons. Some miserable soul stealing a phone makes us angry, but the damage is small. Corporate crime, tax loopholes and corrupt on the other hand causes trillions of dollars of damage and makes all our lives worse.
Which one do you think deserves a greater focus?Who said anything about one deserving a greater focus? Stealing is stealing.
I would take greater care of your instincts in the future. It went well this time, but it could have easily gone the other way.
Consider this version of events: The thief takes off, and you, filled with a sudden feeling of indignation, chase him. After a brief struggle luck and adrenaline gives him the other hand, he pushes you and you fall back. Your eye hits a metal bollard and is shredded. Everything one one side becomes blurry. You're taken to hospital, where you have extensive surgery and they are able to save the eye, but only with partial vision and it looks phucken weird. The owner of the store thanks you but never visits you in hospital saying hes too busy, but he wants you to know you still have your job because although he feels uncomfortable he wants to protect his own self image of himself as a good person. After a month of treatments, you return to work. People call you 'hero', which makes you feel a mix of pride and shame. Its hard adapting to the new circumstances, and your a little slower than before. Every time your coworkers and bosses see you it makes them feel uncomfortable. People in the street stare at you just a fraction longer than they used to, as if trying to figure out where your looking. After a few weeks being back the shifts start to dry up, and eventually you don't get called at all.
You lost a whole lot important to you trying to save property, not a person, that belonged to someone else who was well off enough to afford its loss. Tell me, was it worth it?
We're talking about a used iPhone. Why would someone (not directed at op) put their safety at risk for property? Surely their life and limbs are worth more than a few dollars.
its a reaction called "fight or flight". within a split second we decide if we back down and run, or stand our ground and fight. its not something that you stand around and debate, it just happens.
How long does the fight or flight last through? Is it a second, a minute, an hour? Do we have control, or are we under the control of hormones and only have the illusion of selfdetermination?
If it just happens, did it just happen for the thief as well?
Its [sic] a reaction called "fight or flight"
No, it isn't. Fight or flight is regards to defending yourself - it has nothing to do with regarding chasing down a fricken' thief.
@ThithLord: im wondering if you have ever "lived"? as there are many times in our lives where we simply act, without much rational thought put into what we are doing or why. sometimes its simply "the right thing to do" ie chase down a thief. its part of being human, however todays controlling politically correct society punishes us for acting on our natural instincts.
@DiscoJango: I don't disagree with your sentiment at all - I've certainly lived. If I ever choose not to partake in chasing down a thief, it is certainly not because I am trying to be politically correct.
Thanks for the input, as I have mentioned, it was just a reaction that had happened in the spur of the moment kind of thing. I realised I was an idiot to chase after it had happened but I guess it all has to do with my personal view of ethical work standards. If I had let him just run off and not take any action I'd feel regretful since it would be my responsibility to look after the products I'm selling and I'd want to do the best job i can, no matter what job it is. Suppose I was just brought up that way but yeah. Another factor would be that I may be fired for being 'careless, don't particularly want to lose my job either.
I read a reddit post about a guy who saw a girl getting attacked on the street. He ran to help her, not considering his safety because that's what you do right? Damsels in distress need to be saved. So he shook him off, but the guy had a knife, and our hero got stabbed in the process. The mugger bolted, but not before the girl had taken off. It's alright, he thought, she'll get safe and then she'll call the police. Just gotta wait a bit.
He bled there for 2 hours before a stranger found him and called an ambulance. He recovered, and when he called up the police to find out what happened to the girl, there was no report. She hadn't even bothered to call. He saved her at the expense of himself, and she didn't care about him enough to bother to make a phone call. He ended up with like 60K worth of medical bills.
Now I don't usually take internet stories as gospel, and that was in the US, but I can too easily see that happening here to dismiss it altogether.Unlike some of the other posters I'm not telling you to not to chase the wretches down, just do it for you, not out of some sense of honor to a system that doesn't exist. As soon as you stray from the light you're on your own. You keep doing it and you will get hurt, and you'll find that for all their talk of nobility and morality the hypocrites do not have your back.
…Unless your good looking. Then you'll make the paper and have a donation campaign started for you, and get a hot girlfriend.
Vividly described. Did this happen to you or someone you know?
No, it's just the lens through which I see the world.
its a sad world where people are clearly scared to do the right thing, to be the good guy. good job "justice" system.
Whatever happened to whistleblower legislation?
Just went down the pan like Freedom of Information.
Congrats pollies of all parties for turning us into compulsory voters for people who are legally entitled to lie to us and to pass our vote to someone they don't have to tell us about first.
technically, you dont have to "vote", you just have to show up and get your name ticked off. after that, you could simply walk out. or walk up to the tolling booth, doodle on the polling form, place it in the polling bin and walkout, making it look like you actually voted.
What a hero
You should look into career in police force. You have the natural gift of not letting bad things go.
Cmon apply now.The amount of cowards in this thread, trying to justify their cowardice, is astounding.
you can call people whatever you like. I wouldnt risk my safety over some store stock. If it was my phone though it would be a different story
Says the person behind a keyboard.
He might be behind his Samsung S7
I'd rather be an Alice coward than a dead hero. "Oh, he's dead but at least he saved the iPhone and did the right thing!" Please…
Good job
You got that right Burnertoasty. Seems like the majority here are yellow bellied twats. Thank god they weren't around in the late 30s to mid 40s or we would be speaking Japanese.
Stop this crap, we aren't talking Japanese because of the atom bombs else we'd still been talking Japanese
To those saying people should put themselves at risk because OMG thief needs to be punished, do you honestly think they're going to do time for stealing a used iphone 6? Although I guess if they did stab someone or something there's a chance they might do time.
In Victoria you have sec458 of the Crimes Act, which says that ANY PERSON may use REASONABLE AND PROPORTIONATE force in order to ensure the appearance before the court of anyone they FIND COMMITTING an indictable offense. Basically if you actually see someone committing an offense like theft, criminal damage, assault etc. you can arrest them and hand them to police to ensure their appearance before a magistrate. And you can use REASONABLE AND PROPORTIONATE force to do that.
This ✓
Is it worth getting stabbed over s phine that’s not even yours ?
Boss might let him take his daughter out for dinner?
Unless he’s buying a stake dinner for him too. Pass.
Unless the stake is made from high class ebony and not cheap pine. Pass.
Your biggest mistake was asking the question on an online forum
Yes you're in trouble. Not even the police are allowed to apprehend criminals, so they don't bother trying.
Probably was foolish thing to do. An iPhone 6 is worth not a lot of money anymore, I don't think Apple even sell them new. If he had punched you and his finger nails just scraped your skin, that would probably cost your employer more than the value of the phone, plus you'd have to go get a tetanus shot and get the wound dressed. And what if a customer tried helping you restrain him and they got hurt.
I would not play the hero working in retail.
On the other hand, if someone entered my living space without authorisation or tried to steal from me then I would attack with extreme prejudice. Obviously, I would need to be prepared for all contingencies and have safeguards in place.I find the people that wouldn’t risk their safety for store stock or ‘legal reprecussions’ would also not risk their safety for someone getting bashed.
Back when I worked retail I caught a few thieves. My motive was a bit more selfish. If I just let thieves leave with impunity, I’d ruminate all day over how disgusted I am with myself. Then word gets out that your store is an easy target. Then management crawls up your arse screaming about shrinkage and I liked keeping my work life simple.
I have a few memorable moments. I was always down for a good punch up but never really got one. I remember one thief in particular trying to front - you know the type, the ‘you can’t touch me type’. Dragged him to the back room and had him in tears. The cops laughed at the footage when I gave it to them. Not worried about legal repercussions. I’m more pragmatic. Armchair experts could tell me otherwise, but I moved on from retail when I got my degree and became a lawyer. Thieves don’t have money to litigate and the DPP don’t care
Meet me right now 1v1
Chatty kent.
Hmm, are you aware that the words you said don't actually mean anything?
It's a tough one…
as a person, I think well done for standing up to thieving scum. as an employer I would thank you, then tell you never to do it again. Goods can be replaced, lives not so much. Insurance covers this stuff, all I'd want you to do is take in as many details as possible to help the police.Putting yourself at risk over your company's merch, not a smart plan as if you got injured, that same company would do everything it can to get out of paying for your medical bills.
If you love your job then do it…….. even you dont have to, if you hate your job, let him go, haha
Indictable offence. Arrest power is all clear for any citizen until law enforcement arrive. Any force applied must be reasonable and not excessive.
To all those blanket saying to never chase anyone, it's perfectly fine to chase a shoplifter and yell at them to notify any nearby security guards, only if you back your fitness to run the opposite direction in the unlikely case they pull a knife and become aggressive.
So the OP did the right thing to chase while also maintaining distance from any melee attacks.
Its not a good move, but I get why you thought it was.
Youe safety is worth more than your job to both you AND your employer.
If you were injured at work, because of that shoplifter, your employer would have to pay a Worker's comp insurance premium - which would spectacularly exceed whatever that phone cost.
I dont know what the law is but isn't sad that we live in an age where we do the right thing as you did and then worry that we will get in trouble for assulting a scumbag who really deserves to be hit with a phone book.
Well done mate your parents should be proud that they have brought up a strong confident personforget it and move on
When I worked in retail the message from management was 'Don't be a hero. Follow all demands as quickly as possible while getting a good look at the criminal, what they were wearing and where they went afterwards. Relay to police.'
The problem is thieves know this too, and know it's pretty much open season for stealing anything they want as no one will confront them. The police arrive minutes or hours later.
I concur with the posters and you will mostly be fine…
However, there was an article on news.com.au about a year ago where Woolworths sacked an employee for running after and retrieving a shoplifter… and even when the media became involved Woolworths said that there policy is enforced and staff running after shoplifters will be in breach of company policy.
However, there was an article on news.com.au about a year ago where Woolworths sacked an employee for running after and retrieving a shoplifter
i'm sure if you mean this one, but it should be close enough.
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/0…The company alleged Tapan failed to comply with the offender’s demands for money, he exposed himself and others to serious risk of harm.
“It was alleged that on 7 October 2016 during a serious incident in store you failed to act in accordance with the Armed Holdup procedure when an offender entered the store and demanded money and cigarettes,” his termination letter reads.
The store management is at fault because OP was not properly trained. Every employee must know what they are expected to do in this type of situation. Unless of course, there was training/documentation and the OP hasn't remembered it, in which case the actions may have gone against company policy. Usually the policy is to leave apprehension to security.
Don't chase them next time. Whatever they steal is not worth it. Let the overzealous security guards do it.
ummm ask your boss
I can see the response trend like this:
1. Thief steal things
2. Don't chase or do anything to the thief (you could get hurt, or sued by thief for using excessive force)
3. Call police to get report no, police probably do nothing as insurance cover for loss, no one hurt, and more importantly no money can be make out of this
4. Call insurance with report no from police
5. Rinse and repeatFrom thief point of view, it's a safe and rewarding job to do, why stopping?
From insurance point of view, increased risk = increased premium = more profit
From shop owner point of view, nothing can be done besides accept the loss and pray the thief won't came back (and pay increased premium)I just feel it's so wrong. If no one stand up to this, more and more thief will think it's easy way to get free money.
Because it is easy to get away with free money. Back in 2013 we had thieves stealing cases of spirits. Up to $10k at a time. They went through our stores probably 30+ times. Never got caught. But I am still on the lookout for a green festiva (early 90s model) with a giant 'rent a lemon' sticker on the back window.
Legally? Nothing wrong at all. You personally witnessed this guy committing an offence, so you are well within your legal rights to chase him down - and even physically detain him until the police arrive.
It could still get you fired though depending on your employment contract.
how funny is this. citizens arrests left, right and center only to be told by court order to stop.
October 17 2014
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/vigilante-h…less than two years later.
May 30 2016
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/riot-c…April 4 2017
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/antiuber-activist-russell-howarth-…Missed this reply…
Driving for uber is not an offence, so no you can't perform citizens arrest of uber drivers.
My mum was in a similar situation once. After withdrawing a bunch of cash from an ATM a thief stalked her for about 20 minutes and tried to nab her purse when she was getting in the car, my mum instinctively ran after him yelling and a young Korean guy came in and tackled him and got my mum's purse back.
Called the police on the thief but there was no way to detain him and he just ran off but even after the police heard the story they didn't hold the good Samaritan accountable or anything. We also gave the guy a considerable financial reward for his troubles.
I personally wouldn't risk a remote possibility of permanent injury or death over a few thousand dollars (hence why I stopped riding my motorcycle) but I do respect that it's a personal choice that people make based on their own level of risk preference. If as an individual you are happy to take on that level of risk, more power to you buddy but do understand it's not a safe thing to do.
I was involved in a store robbery gone wrong a few years back while working in a mobile phone store. Guy lifted up the shutters just as 18 year old me was removing the till drawer to put in the safe. I tried to put the till drawer back in, but in that time he had already walked up to the other side of the counter. I said "Can I help you?" and without saying anything, he tries to snatch money from the till. I immediately grab his arm and we're struggling back and forth for a bit, then he starts punching my left arm… at least I thought he was punching it. The dude slips out of his jacket, dropping his hat and the cigarette he had behind his ear, then takes off with probably $100. I run around the counter and chase the bloke about 20-30 metres through the shopping centre before feeling this intense heat running down my arm. I look down and there is blood pouring out of my sleeve. Turns out he had a knife and had stabbed me three times in the forearm. I turn back to look for help and run into a cleaner who radios security, who then call the ambos. Went to hospital where they just stitched me up and sent me home.
Cops recognised the guy through CCTV and raided his house that night. He was found with my blood on his shirt and heroin in his possession. I even went to the station and did the police lineup thing. He got 8.5 years for aggravated robbery, assault and possession. Cops said he had walked past my store and the liquor store a few times, seemingly trying to make up his mind which to rob. The guy was suspected of holding up the Blockbuster downstairs a few weeks earlier too.
All I've been left with is a couple of scars and a pretty crazy story. I remember my boss at the time was furious that I would try and take on a robber, then he realised I didn't really have a choice. If someone who doesn't appear dangerous tries to snatch something out of your hands, you're going to react.
heroin
Did you get tested for hep?
The doctor did a bunch of blood tests a few weeks after - I don't remember what they were for exactly. They also never found the weapon.
That's good to hear.
This is another reason to play it safe.
Good job, maybe if you hurt him you would've gotten in trouble, bt since you didn't do that you shouldn't be.
Nice brag post!
Hey mate. Been in your situation before. Worked at a well known supermarket and chased someone who stole an old lady's purse out to the parking lot and grabbed their hands. Got told by the shop centre's security to leave it next time as there are a lot of legal stuff that protects the thief and you're not supposed to touch them. They said the best thing you can do is take your phone out and try to take a picture of them. They were basically politely telling me to just mind my own business next time. You will be fine though and have nothing to worry about.
TLDR: You will be fine. Don't chase a thief.Alright - lets put the bullshit policies and laws aside first regarding this..
As an ex covert loss prevention officer (undercover security that catches thieves), the thieves do it because the law and store policies are on their side and because it's genuinely easy to get away with it (bar the few people that actually need what the steal).
Yes stores have insurance but if you care about your job it feels shitty watching someone steal in front of you, and worse, run away once apprehended. If they've done at once, they'll do it a hundred times.
If you really want to stop someone with minimal repercussions, wait till you're away from people and security cameras, i.e. outside.
Yes obviously the thief can have a weapon on them so do it at your own risk. I've personally had so many different kinds of weapons pulled out on me.
wait till you're away from people and security cameras, i.e. outside.
a tune up?
If you're worried about your job. I personally never did give anyone a tune up, but have gotten some deported and others thrown into prison. Oh how I wish I could've given some of those pricks a tune up.
Though some people genuinely needed help or just someone to talk to so they'd highly decrease the chances of reoffending (I became good at seeing through lies, etc) so I tried my best to talk to them and do what little I could to help, i.e. where possible not call the popo and just let them off with a warning after a nice long convo.
What happens to the guy if he successfully takes the phone and manages to escape? Is there any implications?
If it's easy to score free phones where you don't get stopped then it's a bargain..
It's so easy actually to steal in Australia because apprehending people is very sensitive matter with police and time/energy consuming. It's not worth it if you are just an employee.
PS. Please don't try to steal. ;)
Hi there,
I worked in retail for 10+ years. One of the reason I quit is because of this theft issue. I could not handle myself emotionally seeing people stealing in front of my face and I could not do something about it.
My best suggestion for you is to ask your manager what is the company policy then you have to follow the policy. If they ask you not to follow the thief, then do not follow.
I was in that exact condition and I try to let people go away with it. Just a reminder that the company is not yours and you have to comply with rules/policy.
It's sad, hard but I moved on now.
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or you could take responsibility yourself for your own actions