So I have just purchased an apartment previously rented @ 530p/w. My plan is to move into this with my partner on a part-time basis. Financially I earn around double her after tax (approx 55k). What would be a fair amount for her to pay living there at 4/7 days a week? Is anyone currently in this situation?
Thanks
as long as you don't mind giving her half of your wealth if it doesn't work out then go for it, understand what a de facto relationship is
for the record, living with someone is the same as marriage, there is no difference, it's still pretty much divorce court and potential spouse maintanence.. it's an easy win for her simply because thats how the system is setup
think long and hard about this… be prepared for the consequences… personally i wouldn't let her stay a single night let alone live unless i was willing to fully commit… but at 23 that sounds like a really bad move
No if you apartment isn't her permanent residence you can't charge her anything if you ask me and if you guys decide to live together just split bills it will save you if things go sour in the long run and she wants half. '
Her staying over is because you want her too she isnt a resident if your property - dont mix sex with money unless you are paying for the sex
But congratulations on buying your 1st property
for discussion- would that make a difference if OP paid off the apartment and is not on a mortgage?
Regardless of mortgage or no OP is having this girl sleep over for personal reasons she isnt 'renting' a room. She has no legal rights to the property, if she moves in permanently i personally would split bills but not charge rent because (assuming) they are sleeping in the same room, she doesnt have her 'own space'.
OP could rent out a spare room of the apartment to some else but you someone you have a personal relationship with is dumb - what can you do if she doesnt pay? what if you break up?
dont mix business with plesure if you want to make money renting hit up flat mate.com
I think the answer is yes.
Despite earning double, mortgage payments still stretch me pretty thin.
This is one of those bank FU's loan based on part time salary + banking on rental. red flag
Good on ya for getting into the property market but i think your broker needs a slap
Common sense tells me that you should have applied for the loan and worked out repayment affordability assuming she wasn't paying anything. It's really up to you to make sure you can afford the mortgage, so to say it's stretching you pretty thin is a concern. Maybe get a paying flat mate to make it more affordable, rather than put pressure on your girlfriend. I would ask for her to chip in for the groceries, but assuming she's only going to be there when you are, I can't imagine a huge spike in utilities from her being there with you.
Take the high road and expect nothing, if she offers to pitch in (which any decent person would), just ask for her to pay at the supermarket.
Obviously the loan was applied for based on my financial situation. Her payments aren't needed.
Congratulations
You have figured out the answer her payments aren't needed…..
If she's renting a whole bedroom to herself, you're doing the girlfriend bit wrong. Get her to pay for the utilities groceries and interwebs instead. I forgot about the defacto bit.
I don't think she should pay anything until you're committed to living together. As it is, it sounds more like a fun relationship where your girlfriend comes over to spend the night with you. That's great - but I wouldn't charge her for that. When you are actually living together - like buying furniture together, worrying about bills together and when her postal address is your place, then yes, she should pay rent.
2 trains of thought
-100% protected, after all, you are both young
-Shared, which leaves you vulnerable.
100% protected would be along the lines of:
rent your place out, switch it to a pty ltd or similar and rent a new place where you can share costs. This will cost a little more to set up but has some advantages of being able to claim repairs or renovations or strata fees if incurred. There are further deductions possible if your accountant is creative.
I would go this route simply due to the fact you are young and a lot can happen even over the course of a few months. If you end up staying together it wont change a thing and will, in fact, help protect your investment if the marriage falls apart since the property was purchased before marriage.
Im not trying to be negative about your situation, im pointing out you have to look after you first at this point in life.
The only reason I would charge my GF rent is to officially make her a tenant for the purposes of protecting my asset from being taken should the relationship end, not for the purposes of earning money.
Make the GF earn her keep in other more unimaginative ways.
Why would you ask her to pay? Of course not
Especially he gets free sex from her. Otherwise he needs to pay $50 a pop at the local parlor.
Wow only $50, that sounds cheap
Especially he gets free sex from her
I just wanted to point out that she gets it "free" too! It's not just guys that need it! lol.
pay $50 a pop at the local parlor.
I'd so hate to see the quality you get for $50!
And while I'm here, nice username - perfect for this topic! hahaha
Read the economy of sex. Guys sexuality is worth zero.
Of course not.
Hope she puts out.
so technically you are looking for a tenant/roommate for ur apartment.
alternatively, u can move in hers and pay her rent, then rent out your apartment.
isn't it going to cripple her financially? is she going to be paying full rent on the place she will only be staying a 3/7 days and then rent to you on top of that.
She is only there half the time. She doesn't live with you.
If she were to move in then yes, I would ask for rent. At the current scenario, no way.
Yes, lots
She should pay. You should accept alternate forms of payment.
My question is: Does she consider it home? her Base, or does she come over every now and then?
If it's your ( both ) home, it's a good time to discuss finances ( part of being a pair ) together.
If it is, you should not care if she pays or not, as it will in some form or shape come back to you.
Have her contributing financially to the relation: let her buy Takeaway once a while, or but some nice wine to share with you.
Ask her if she want to contribute, as a start for her to take on responsibility. Put that money away, and surprise her with a holiday.
When i was living with my GF in a rented apartment, we each paid the same percentage of our salary to the rent. I paid $1000, she paid $700.
When I was living with my GF in her apartment, she paid all the interest, but I never made a claim the place was mine.
Title/subject matter should read 'bought a unit, how can i protect myself if my relationship falls apart'
for simplicity purpose in the future (no legal consequences), have her pay for your meal whenever she stays at your home.
Your girfriend? And you want her to pay rent to you? hahahahah damn that's tight! I'd never expect that, just be happy if she helped out with food and bills which is fair.
Can I be your girlfriend? I want a free place to live!
Sorry, the position has been filled. And fyi I support her 100% while she completes her studies. She was working nights but I offered to cover her expenses so she could focus on getting good results and not be tired every day. I don't expect to ever be repayed financially and even though I know nothing is guaranteed I think she's worth it.
Exactly what i was trying to say. There are others like me who will support their significant other 100%.
Can you do any special tricks?
Was hoping not to turn tricks for rent but if that's the 'traditional deal' who am I to argue?
Watch out for the de facto!
Probably should have thought about this before you guys moved in together.
Point is, they haven't moved in together. They're kids two years into their relationship and she stays over a few nights a week. It's not "their" place, it's "his".
Mate don't let her change her mailing address to your place.
Don't let her stay more than half the time.
Don't charge her rent.
Protect yourself from defacto laws.
If your relationship lasts a lifetime at 23/21 you will be a beautiful minority.
Move out of the apartment and rent it out. When you two are committed enough in moving in, rent a place togather and work out who pays what at the time.
This will ensure
1. You get tax benefits and protection of assets other talking about
2. If you move back in with parents then you can save more money
3. Can move back in within 6 years before principle place of residence laps. (read up it could be 7 years limit)
4. You are young, go out there travel, make friends and live up.
I'm old school so would want to be the provider. However if my girl friend is working and earning a decent wage then it's only reasonable that she should pay for things she can, like a holiday or something.
Pls don't get married at 23. There is time for it.
All the best.
Or don't get married at all.
Good deal!
This is so logical, I can't wait to recite it to my girlfriend and cop fits of flying rage and frypans.
Logic gets all the ladies hot and steamy down there.
If you don't get married and don't stay together you 'STILL' lose at least 50% of everything you own (like marriage this applies to assets and worth from the start of relationship).
De facto laws apply these days.
Agree with above, though OP may have used FHOG in the purchase. I think that mean must live there for 6 months to avoid defrauding us tax payers.
I don't think it's appropriate for her to pay rent, because she needs your permission to enter the premises. Let's say you formalise this "part-time access" arrangement you guys have - what are you going to do when she stays longer than the allocated days? Claim breach of contract?
In the meantime, go halves on food/fun stuff like a normal couple.
no rent, it is your property and you are in a relationship …
rather have her to pay half of bills and she can collect money for her apartment if you guys breakup down the line
No. You bought it not her.
Might be time for new girlfriend as well … lots of fun to be had, if you're single with a bachelor pad…
Giggity
no rent since 4/7 days - but i am sure itd turn to 7/7 days pretty quickly. get her to pay all the bills
No moving in with you for any amount of money mate!
It's your castle. Treat it as such. Till there is an engagement ring in the finger forget about it !
If she pays rent, you would be liable to pay tax on it. Just saying in case.
Subletting income not necessary to declare. Got a reference to prove me wrong?
I would love to have a reference. Thanks
https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Property/Your-home/Renting-ou…
It's income. He has to declare it on his tax return.
And he'll have to pay proportional capital gains tax if he ever sells the property.
On the upside, he can declare some household expenses on his tax against the income.
Thanks - I have been informed.
subletting would be different
Subletting is if you are renting (not owner) the house then rent all (profit on this would probably be taxable)
or part to another (this probably wouldn't be taxable income as it is essentially a share house with a room mate sharing the rental expense).
If you owned the home then it will simply be a taxable income, an asset drawing revenue.
But you could claim some of the Mortgage and upkeep expenses (proportional to the part rented out I imagine 50%)
https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Property/Your-home/Renting-ou…
You should ask her to pay nothing. Seriously, if you bring someone home for the night are you going to ask them to pay 1/7 of your weekly rent? Even if she moves in permanently, asking her to pay part of your mortgage when she gains no equity stake is crazy. Would you still expect her to pay half of market value rent if you owned the place mortgage free? Would you suddenly let her stop paying rent only as soon as you are legally considered defacto (after 2 years)?
never going to happen
If I was your gf and you made that preposition I'd dump you. Staying at your place 4/7 is clearly for fun nights, she's not moving in with you. And you want to charge her for that when you get free sex? Seems like you want to take advantage of her instead. Don't be such a calculative tightass. You propose that, your gf will either stop going to your place or dump you. I know I would.
Just get her to pay for her share of groceries.
I'd dump you for being a cashless whore, "free sex" my ass, sex is a two way street, both parties are getting pleasure, so she better pay up
Both parties are enjoying her stay over nights, so why is the OP intending to charge her? She's staying over so they can spend time together, not because she needs to live there, duh.
She will be better off staying at her parents' where she is paying less or nothing. And if you're saying, well they get to have fun times together; she can use that money to have actual fun dates like going out to movies or events and dining out. Sure sounds like a date that's more fun than paying to be allowed to stay in a house.
If you think she should be charged by op to stay to spend quality time with him, she should charge him for the actual sex too. Why is it ok for him to charge but not her to charge him then. Both seem ridiculous, but if OP is going through with it, she should do it to him too.
'free sex' makes it sound like it's a service you're providing with no benefit to yourself
Man, you need to have a convo with her. The two of you discuss finances as it relates to the home, utilities and food. Get her view on the whole thing, make the decision between the two of you. Let her know how you feel, do you think she should contribute? Tell her! See how she responds, work out a solution, don't worry about the legalities, your a young 👫 who may or may not last. Communicate with her not us.
split the bills when she moves in permanently.
until then, be a man and own it in full.
From experience HELL NO!! Then she will be entitled to half to of if you split up. Just get her to buy all the food or something else to cover what she would be paying in rent
Read up about Market Norms vs Social Norm.
Your girlfriend and the relationship comes under social norms whereas apartment is under market norms.
Mix them and you are in some long term pain.
Do research on those topics and it may clear your dilemma
what if you mention it and she breaks up with you for being a tight arse, than you aint getting no poon for a while till you find the next girl. is it really worth the risk of not getting poon tang is the question you need to ask your self..
Malcolm Turnbull pays his wife rent for a house "she" owns in Canberra. Following his fine example, you should tell your boss to give you a travel allowance (MT gives $175 a night to his wife for rent and $10 more when she stays with him).
How long have you been with her for? you need to be a little transparent.
Depends what your feelings are, if you both know you're there just in the interim, she can pay
if she has feelings for you & vice versa, you don't need to ask her to pay at all.
Of course she should
2 years? ahh YES , she is not a pet, she shouldn't get anything for Free
Question 1. Does she have to stay over your place?
Question 2. Do you get anything from her for free when she stays over your place?
Yes/No: Rent.
Yes/Yes: No rent.
No/No: No rent.
No/Yes: You pay her rent!
If she charges you for every tumble in the haystack, you should charge her rent.
Otherwise, take that as payment in kind…
There's an element of whether she "tumbles on demand" of course…
Hold on - you want to charge her rent but does she get her own room? Her name on the bills? A mailing address? Would she get the same things another renter would get if there was no relationship involved? Does she get to move everything she owns in and hang pictures on the wall?
For the love of god man don't make your girlfriend pay rent - for all the many good reasons already written. This is YOUR mortgage. If you guys decide to get married maybe you can renegotiate so that it becomes both of yours, but she didn't sign up for that, you did. If you'd moved out together to a flat and were splitting it that's different because she'd have tenancy rights and all the rest of it. If you charge her rent, the power imbalance will lead to breakup and the next guy she gets will be like "wtf?! he made you rent ?!"
Your girlfriend coming over a few times a week because you want her to does not make you entitled to her money because you've got a mortgage. If you think it's unfair, go to her house. My goodness I must be getting old, I'd be very uncomfortable with this proposal if I were her.
Can you transfer ownership of the property into a trust that you control? This way you don't actually own the house so therefore can't be chased for some of its value if things don't work out.
Let her pay for bills
Staying over 2 or 3 nights a week sounds more like a date night type of thing which is what a lot of my friends and flat neighbours do. Pretty sure they don't charge; they just take it as part of the dating arrangement.
At your age I'd def keep it informal (i.e. no official living or finance arrangements). Plenty can happen and change still that age.
No, unless she is there 7 days a week and calls it home. She's just sleeping at her bfs otherwise which means you pay everything regarding bills etc maybe get her to pay for groceries now and then
Cash mate no traces living ain't free ;)
Cash mate no traces living ain't free
but full stops are free! haha
Fair call ! Hahaha
You desparately need to get a BFA, a binding financial agreement.
How binding are these really?
All laws trump it. So just like a warranty that says the consumer can't return a dead on arrival purchase, any condition that goes against normal rights is void. Also like almost any contract if it is filled with rubbish conditions, the whole document will be void. The law likes 'reasonable' though, so if it is a reasonable agreement between two parties it will generally stand up if normal contract conditions are fulfilled.
Reading up on it first and a quick visit to a lawyer afterwards will help, but as always with lawyers, a bit of study and thought before you visit them will save you a lot of money. Just think of every hour you spend researching on the internet as saving $300!
That's what I thought. No way out of the 50% off all your possessions offered by marriage and de facto relationships. Not a bargain.
I can't imagine the rent for sharing a bed + zero rights (ie. can get kicked out on a whim) is that expensive.
Not sure what to do about the part-time bit (maybe just assume full time stay). Going between homes would be hard for her in the long run anyway.
What I did with my ex-partner that worked well (we split and both parties were happy with the financial outcome):
I bought unit (deposit was mine), property was in my name, loan account was in my name.
Partner put all her savings in my offset account along with my money.
Monthly interest on the property loan was deducted from the offset account. This interest was treated as rent that we were theoretically both sharing 50-50.
Monthly we were adding to the offset (decreasing 'rent' for both of us).
On separation we agreed we would both get the amount of money we individually added to the offset account, less 50% of the total interest paid out of the account.
Worked a charm at reducing both our costs. And I think has less of a negative feeling than asking your partner to pay you rent.
Relies on having a trustworthy relationship. Our relationship ended with a bang (cheating and breaking of trust under influence of alcohol), but we still had no issue resolving things financially. I think that we both had good financial prospects individually meant we weren't interested in squabbling to steal more than our share out of the split.
Edit: this might be too serious for your stage of relationship.
I think I just stepped onto a weird planet…. Think I'll go now…. Just before I do I'd like to check something …
(this forum is meant to be a joke, right?)
Yes. In fact I think most women would want to contribute.
Make her aware of the costs, get her to pay her fair share.
Open a joint account and have her (and you) pay into the account.
Be open about everything.
Have you discussed this with her?
What is she thinking will happen?
What are you thinking will happen?
Do you keep finances separate? Etc
Sign a preprenup. Solved.
Prenuptial agreements don't mean jack shit in Australia.
Does she pay rent for her own place the other days? If so why would you make her pay for visiting you?
Everyone speak of nanny state and all that jazz, but when my girl/boy friend moves in with me, I can't stand the thought of her/him drinking a glass of water without paying 50% off it.
Grow some manhood and own it.
umm if they are drinking the glass of water, are they not drinking 100% of that water.
Why the figure 50% ? is it a co-payment
Sharing the water bill, 50 - 50.
50 was a figure, can be whatever.
be sure to warn guests that a glass of water will result in owing half the entire bill, it will be awkward otherwise.
Let me just preface this by saying that I'm not a lawyer and what I'm saying should not be construed as legal advice.
As others have said, first step should be to see a lawyer regarding this issue.
Just an idea that I had was that you could treat this as any 'landlord-tenant' agreement and have a lawyer create a tenancy agreement that requires her to pay you the rent and utilities on pro-rata basis for the 4/7 days she will be staying at your place. This should abide by your state's laws obviously. Do not give her a discount (I understand this might get me hate but i'm strictly giving a possible answer/idea to your question OP). These things should make it clear that you and your girlfriend have a legal contract and therefore should not be treated as a domestic agreement. Courts look at these things when considering all the factors in order to make a decision.
Good luck mate.
Seriously - if you need to go down this path, you really need to examine your choice in partner. I understand the need to protect yourself, but it needs to be balanced with the downside to a worldview that treats someone who loves you and you love as an adversary. I'm not saying love should make you blind, but there needs to be balance.
Hang on - isn't it 2 years? http://www.familycourt.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/fcoaweb/family…