The recent news of a man who got dragged out of the United Airlines flight has been making headlines all over.
I feel that the man should sue the hell out of the company but Some are saying that it was the police, not the airlines who forced the passenger out of the plane, so he cannot sue United.
i would like to know if he has the right to do so.
Any lawyers or informed people here?
All contributions welcomed with a thank you.
So they should have asked someone else to leave.
Asking a doctor is a bit unreasonable, and if it causes someone that much distress.
As above, it was a voucher, not cash. You cant use it for a cab. And i would find it highly unlikely a cab driver would accept a trip 5 hours away
Asking a doctor is a bit unreasonable, and if it causes someone that much distress.
I'll keep that in mind for my next conflict.
Especially as a couple, take the $1600, get a cab. Probably cost $300-400,
Are we still on OzBargain!? Take an Uber!
@Drew22: I was in a flight Melbourne to Sydney. My flight got cancelled (jet Star) and the last fight of the night back to Sydney one way trip economy was $1,500 (Qantas). I ended up renting a car a drove back to Sydney. Usually a 1 day car rental is about $100-$200, it was $500 that day. They're all fking crooks.
Ps. It was a Sunday, and next day is a work day as well
The offer was $800 worth in coupons. Keep in mind it wasn't even just 1 coupon that can be redeem for $800 it is multiple coupon that can only be use in selected United flight (1 voucher per flight) and they have a 12 months expiry on them. So you have to travel with United multiple times in the next 12 months and even when you use the voucher, you are still not guarantee to get the best price that you might be better off buying else where without voucher.
It's funny that these vouchers would end up making United even more money than it would compensate for the passenger inconvenience.
You would be stupid to take up that offer.
United needed to kick 4 people off… so that's 4 x lost airfares, $3200 in compensation, pissed off customers… why didn't they just taxi the staff? Seems a hell of a lot more logical.
Because they didn't foresee that this case would go viral.
So it was cheaper for them just to screw over 4 unlucky individuals at random.
Irreagrdless
Option 1 : kick off customers, annoy then, spend 3k odd
Option 2 : use alternative transport for staff, spend 400 odd
Seems a no brainer
The issue would otherwise be time and convenience.
Staff would have been on stand-by, ready to board the plane, EXPECTING some no-shows. Unfortunately everyone showed up / not enough no-shows which resulted in what we see here.
I don't know if they might've pre-loaded the employee's luggage and what not, but it would've taken more man hours to unload, find and unpack their luggage etc.
Ultimately they screwed up and wasted money AND time because of it.
Oh and the free publicity
should have hired a private jet for the staff
- still would have cost less than 33million dollar loss in share price
@Blitzfx:
Story was they were short staffed at the destination airport, and they needed the crew there to staff a departing flight.
The truth is that is $800 worth of flight vouchers, $50 each, expire in one year. You can only use one voucher per booking.
Do you still think it worth the hassle to the passengers? It costs next nothing to kick off 4 passengers. Now is it more logical to you?
Apparently the next flight would've been the next morning,
Some additional context to the situation: The man was apparently a doctor who had to take the flight to see his patients and hence would not give up his seat.
Few memes for lols:
http://imgur.com/gallery/OLNAN0s
http://imgur.com/gallery/366Nt
http://imgur.com/gallery/ZbEMV5d
I don't believe I added any judgement or opinion to my comment, only additional context so no need to jump to conclusions.
I guess now he's apparently a doctor/sex pill marketer.
E: Just so you know, pharmacology is deeply tied with medicine so there is nothing wrong with that. Sex pills are generally just another term for vasodilators.
No, like he literally gave drugs away in return for sex.
We don't know all the facts, we do have all the witnesses and videos telling us what happened though.
All Airlines are allowed to force people off the plane with any reason. But most have a policy not to anymore… to avoid what happened here. They just keep upping the off for volunteers
Have you read the fine print? What rules did he break? The contact of carriage is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag… have a read through rule 21 "refusal of transport" and explain which rule he broke to allow him to be removed from the flight.
The rule 24 you quoted is rule 25, and it only gives the airline the right to deny boarding a passenger that has not boarded. It certainly does not give them the right to remove a passenger who has already boarded.
The right to remove is an archaic law harking back to ships.
Is generally not used by some airlines as it causes issues like what has happened here.
Most just keep increasing the offer amount.
I believe the involuntary move option is 4x ticket price to a max $1,300 cash(cheque)
they should have at least offered $1,300 cash first.
They just offered a $800 airline voucher, which is prob why no one took it.
@Baghern: that 4x ticket price only applies if the individual hasn't boarded. According to the contact of carriage the person is not required to accept any offer once they're on-board.
If the right to remove is a archaic law dating back to ships then it would be void because the passenger didn't receive it in writing.
The key word here is involuntary.
Go to Reddit, they've disseminated this a crap tonne.
Haven't seen a Reddit so flooded with a topic in ages.
In the same position - I can only imagine - (pending my flight plans/family/work commitments etc how upset I would be) I would of followed the rule and taken the money/vouchers, as all the childish rants will not improve or help the situation, and so it was it did not help him and all the other now disgruntled passengers.
On the contrary, it wouldn't've gone viral if he hadn't resisted. And due to that, he now stands to receive huge amounts of compensation.
Congratulations, you win dumb comment of the day.
You don't agree = dumb? Righto bud. Not all of us give a shit when someone whines. If you want to feel sorry for him, that's up to you. I'll continue to follow officer's directions.
Well United lost almost a Billion dollars in market valuation because of this incident. Personally, I probably would have taken the compensation instead of putting up a fight, if i wasn't really in hurry to get to the next city. But considering the fact that guy was like 69 years old and a doctor who was supposed to meet patients, I would say that they should have tried to select somebody less "problematic". The airport definitely needs to be sued for manhandling the guy they way they did.
Its a world of fake news and smear campaigns, I'd be more careful with what I choose to believe!
news.com.au is hardly a reliable source.
Exactly, thats the smear campaign I was talking about.
Did the thugs know that when they were manhandling him?
If they did know, does it make a difference? Because if hurting people is alright because they're 'bad' then we may as well let the nukes start flying, as I've yet to meet someone who is completely pure
Did the thugs know that when they were manhandling him?
Did 2jzzzz suggest in any way that they did?
If they did know, does it make a difference?
It's a fact I'm sure people will find fascinating.
Absolutely irrelevant
Just like him being a doctor, but people like to bring that up.
Allegedly
The issue here is that united did not follow their own policies.
They have apparently 3 tier offers for overbooking.
They stopped at tier 2 offer, not the maximum as their policy states.
Also the reason they were overbooked was because they wanted to move their own staff onto the flight.
They assaulted the guy it looks like because of his ethnicity.
And they didn't want to offer the maximum amount to get his seat which they were allowed to do.
TRYING TO SMEAR THE PERSON AFTER THE EVENT IS CHEAP.
He bought a seat- got assaulted- because the yank airline didn't follow their own policies - end of story.
Why try and say they somehow deserved it?
Three tiers? Nice, what's at the third level?
Would having a "computer" randomly pick someone mean that they would lose the offer of compensation?
As in "we offered 800$, but the computer picked you and you didn't accept, so get off and you get nothing!"
Involuntary move is 4x ticket price to a max of$1,350
not sure how important this is - the airline laws for bumping are for oversold seats i.e. not when the airlines are trying to move crew around. So it may have been illegal to forcibly remove the man
I confess to being a Lawyer but it is arguable as to whether I am informed! LOL.
Anyway, obviously not 100% sure of the Laws in the USA as I'm Australian like everyone here probably is, but short answer to your question would be 'absolutely.' He would be able to sue the Airline, but as to whether he will be successful, that is another issue. I only just read 1 article about it and it didn't provide a lot of info. If he was asked to leave, said no and then without any further discussion those security guards grabbed him and dragged him the way the video shows they did, he would be able to sue. Firstly, because he was injured as I'm sure the blood from his mouth came wasn't there before and secondly for compensation stemming from the ordeal himself. Due to the fact he has suffered significant shame from what has happened and as a result of all the press from the incident, his questionable past has been shared all over the news worldwide and he has been harmed in a number of ways form this.
The fact is that if he wasn't treated the way he was by United and its staff, he wouldn't have been recorded on video being treated in the degrading way he was. If he wasn't treated in that way, he would likely have not made the news and if he had not made the news, his past would likely not have been sprawled all over the media the way it has been.
All the above being said, if he was the first one to provoke a physical altercation and the Airlines can show it had reasonable grounds for believing others were in danger from his actions, then they'd probably be able to argue they did what any reasonable person in that circumstance would have done (which is in most cases a good indicator as to whether someone is liable for wrongdoing).
Not if they hadn't followed their own policies.
Because if they hadn't offered him 3rd tier compensation then everything that followed occurred as a DIRECT result of the airlines staff failure to follow their own policy.
I think the 3rd tier was 1200, maybe more.
Didn't offer it because they didn't like his ethnicity apparently
Can't say who's in the right here but they could have at least sorted out the situation/asked for volunteers at the gate rather than until everyone was seated. He would be refused entry at the gate instead of being dragged out of the plane like that…
If I had that dude's history I'd keep a lop profile.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/passe…
and now comes the character assassination. How predictable
The character assassination has begun. Journalists (probably quietly poked by the airline and security staff) are digging up as much dirt on the guy as possible. From over a decade ago, which has nothing to do with this week's incident.
Does it mean if that guy was a mass murderer it would justify the airline treating him and the police forcibly remove him in such a way? It's irrelevant who he is but the way the airline and the police "re-accommodated" the pax.
Link doesn't work. And considering news.com.au published a story about a lady living in a bubble diagnosed with electrohypersensitivity (not a recognised illness) and curiously can only use an iPhone, with their sole source of factchecking being her gofundme page. Her diagnosis appeared to come from a chiropractor. I would be very careful with the news these days, a lot of seems to be reposting from unreliable sources.
I am distressed awaiting the closure of your bracket!!
)
It wont let me edit it!
There is presently confusion about whether the man on the United flight was actually David Thanh Duc Dao, quite possibly another person entirely to David Anh Duy Dao, the man with the criminal records.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/united-airlines-doctor-d…
This is why the link doesn't work anymore, journalism at it finest here.
This guy is going to be a millionaire by the end of the year, if that's what has happened then he can also sue for defamation.
Fear not, there are backup copies of the Internet: http://web.archive.org/web/20170411191735/http://www.news.co…
The highly likely resolution to this problem is a six figure payout to the man, and a water tight court order stating he's never to state the outcome and payout of the case to anyone. Not even his cat.
I would gladly be roughed up and dragged down an aircraft aisle for only $500k. $400k if they pay within a week.
I'll do it for $399k.
Anyone want to film it? I'm sure we could come to a very lucrative arrangement…
That's not very much tbh. He face planted into corner of the arm rest. Could have lost his front teeth if it had been any harder. Surgery and dental repair would cost a fair chunk without insurance I'd imagine.
Then you'd be in pain for a veeeeeeeeeery long time.
I'd take $500k to get roughed up, but not to the face!
@Blitzfx: Yeah, I'd draw the line at getting teeth involved.
The interesting thing is how much overbooking earns airlines, versus paying compensation to bumped passengers and potentially paying out a lawsuit. Airlines make more money selling their own fiat currency (which can be devalued or cancelled at any time) than they do flying people around.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-31/airlines-…
the cat wouldn't grass
I hope he can and he wins.
No one should be treated that way.
If the fellow passengers were so horrified at the treatment of the dr, then why did no one volunteer even then? Because it's easier to film it on your phones and let the world know after way too much time has passed to actually help the situation. Was the behaviour of the airline appalling? Absolutely but the fellow passengers were no better.
They filmed it, which got the job done. If you get involved in airport security, they could deny you airline travel, and you'll be stuck in America forever.
Nah mate, as long as you don't get your arms and legs broken, you can always climb the wall to Mexico and escape
The other 3 passengers who left quietly after being randomly selected are big losers- no giant hissy fit no big payout. I must remember that for future reference- waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
NEWS JUST IN: 3 other passengers report serious delayed effects of United ordeal…
I'm sure I heard a woman scream in that video. She must have PTSD now. That's got to be worth at least $250k.
Yes, a woman was heard repeatedly calling for her guard:
OH MY GUARD!
OH MY GUARD!
OH!
MY!
GUARD!
@Scrooge McDuck: She was screaming 'Oh my gourd! Oh my gourd!' She was fearful her fleshy large fruit may be bruised in the ruckus.
latest news stated United flight wasn’t even overbooked
So he's a doctor - does he have the time to sue?
Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing, regardless of blame, has been MASSIVELY blown out of proportion?
Let's see:
- A paying passenger was forcibly dragged off a flight
- Assaulted and humiliated publicly in the process
- UA probably would have swept this under the carpet was it not for the power of social media
I wouldn't want to be that man nor would I wish it happen to anyone I know. This media exposure is good so as to deter future incidents like this.
So no, I don't think this was blown out of proportion.
And why didn't any of those things happen to the other 3?
They weren't there when he was assaulted. They had already left the plane after voluntarily agreeing to some minor compensation. What's your point?
This has nothing to do with them.
Yes you are right.
What have they got to do with the way United handled the situation with our hero and the abuse he suffered as a result?
"United's contract of carriage states that passengers to be forcibly taken off a flight in the event of overbooking will be 'determined based on a passenger's fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment. That means that if you have a certain type of fare class, checked in early, have a flier status such as gold, or even just own a barely used frequent flier card, you are less likely to be bumped. But passengers taking advantage of budget seats appear to be of less value to the airline."
It is not random. They are basically booting the guys who paid the least. Quoted from Dailynews and from an analyst in one of the interviews I saw.
The ensuing sh*tstorm, moral condemnation and empathetic outpourings of support have literally rivalled (and in many cases surpassed) terrorist attacks killing 100s or 1000s of people…
That's the funny thing about humans. Suicide bomber kills 50 people in an Iraqi marketplace? Worth a mention in Western media, but no big deal. A guy gets dragged off a plane? Social media outrage. We're a funny lot.
Demetrio is a veteran of aviation litigation and has negotiated more than $1 billion in settlements. He specialises in representing clients in medical negligence, product liability and aeroplane crash cases.
Hope he goes far with this goldmine of a case.
It is believed Dao’s criminal past – he has previously been charged with offering pharmaceutical drugs for sex as well as stalking – will be dredged up should the case go to court. Of course, it has no bearing on what happened to him on that flight and is merely a public interest story, at best.
I wonder how United will try and use this in their defense. Like maybe this shows he is of bad character and incited the officers or some bullshit?
Copied from reddit:
Lawyer here. This myth that passengers don't have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane.
First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about "OVERSALES", specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.
Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it's clear that what they did was illegal— they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.
Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you've boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn't have been targeted. He's going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.
Boom lawyered - love it!
nice one aids! your name is funny @@
Don't believe that Asian guy actually got punched in the face, I mean look at that nose bleed!!!, he needs to start sue this company, a measly $400 compensation just won't do. If the airline more professional they would direct the extra passengers to a new aircraft aslp, not to hard to get an extra plain considering this airline has how many?
No, it's in the contract of carriage.
More info though:
If a flight is overbooked, airlines have individual protocols that determine which passengers get bumped.
Those who've bought the cheapest fares are among those most likely to be earthbound.
Late check-ins are susceptible, as are those who have not completed online check-in and been assigned a seat. Frequent flyers with elite status are unlikely to get offloaded, as are parents travelling with infants, unaccompanied minors and passengers with connecting flights.
In some countries, especially the US where airlines routinely overbook flights, being offloaded can be lucrative. Federal regulations stipulate that the airline must ask for volunteers, who might be offered a cash payment, typically $US200-$400, and reassignment to the next flight.
The real pay-off is for those who are involuntarily offloaded. Compensation can be as high as $US1300, depending on their ticket cost and the delay time.
The European Union has similar rules governing compensation for offloaded passengers.
If you're dumped from an overbooked flight in Australia there is no statutory compensation. If you are denied boarding involuntarily on a Virgin Australia flight you are entitled to a payment of denied boarding compensation under normal circumstances.
If that happens on a Qantas flight the airline will offer you a seat on the next available flight, or compensation if that is unacceptable.
Read more: http://www.traveller.com.au/how-do-airlines-decide-who-to-bu…
Follow us: @TravellerAU on Twitter | TravellerAU on Facebook
Especially as a couple, take the $1600, get a cab. Probably cost $300-400, so you get ~$1200 for taking 5 hours instead of 1.5 hours or so. A bit of horsing around, that's good money though for little inconvenience.
Certainly a hell of a lot better than any compensation you'll get here.
To me it's surprising. Not like it was Brisbane to Perth where there is no feasible option other than flying.