What Can I Do If My 2001 Astra Won't Play Up For My Mechanic?

IPYF on 06/03/2017 - 10:13
Last edited 06/03/2017 - 10:21 by 1 other user

Late last year I had my rear brakes discs and pads replaced on my 2001 Astra to remove a persistent squealing from scored discs. A month later a new intermittent moan ('oscillating loud whale sound' is the best way of describing it) started to emanate from somewhere in the brake system, and was especially bad in hot weather, so I assumed that my mechanic would need to check they'd fitted the new brakes properly. I took the car in and of course when the mechanic test drove it, it played possum and didn't make a peep when they test drove it. Even though they couldn't hear anything they took the rear brakes apart and put them back together again to check they hadn't installed anything improperly. It fixed nothing and as soon as I had the car back, the moaning continued and got worse over the next week, so I decided it had to go back once again. Next they told me that the front brakes were causing the noise and they'd need to be replaced too, so I ponied up for those too. Everything was fine for a full day, and then lo-and-behold, the moaning is back, though at this stage it's far less frequent.

Now I've got 4 brand new brakes and I still have the problem I presented with originally. In my mind, the mechanic has given me bad advice and they need to make this right, because the car will now be going back in for the 3rd time with the same problem. but, I am worried that once again if I take it in for a test drive, it won't play up for them, because they're likely to take it out and test it in the cool of the morning, on a short drive, and they could start to argue with me that there's nothing wrong with it. It tends to only start playing up at random after the car gets good and hot, on a hot day and you can sort of fix the moaning by pressing the brakes, which makes me wonder if something in the pedal system is sticking (I told them all of this the first time).

I know that this is effectively now my word against theirs, but I need my car fixed and taking it to a different mechanic for a second opinion is going to cost me labour. Is there anything that anyone can advise? I've never had real issues with a mechanic before so I'm in totally uncharted territory.

PS: I know Astras have a bad reputation among car people. I don't need to hear about how my car is a POS, and that this is why I'm having problems. It's been a very trouble-free car for a very long time for us, and I just want it fixed.

Automotive

Comments

  • apple2016 on 06/03/2017 - 10:36

    Sometime dues to the design of the breaks it might make some noise. Does this occur always when you break? Does it occur on gentle breaking or on sudden & sharp breaking as well?

    • IPYF on 06/03/2017 - 10:39

      Tends to be on takeoff into 1st, or when I shift to 2nd. So it's when you're moving off from stationary. I know squat about cars, but it's almost like the brakes aren't letting go properly. It's much much worse when it's hot.

      • apple2016 on 06/03/2017 - 10:43

        Thats unusual. I am not an mechanic but this sound more like bearing and not breaks.

  • supnigs super skids on 06/03/2017 - 10:39

    brake place will then tell you its the warped rotors next, they needed to be machined or replaced

    • IPYF on 06/03/2017 - 10:41

      My understanding is that the rotors were what we just had replaced x4. 4 brand new rotors, 4 sets of brand new pads. Another thought that crossed my mind was that there might be an issue with the quality of the replacement parts.

      • supnigs super skids on 06/03/2017 - 10:55

        maybe it needs further bedding in. Try a place to use the brakes hard and the issue could resolve itself. or get the place to do it. the process involves a lot of hoonery.

        or maybethe new brakes are missing lithium grease or even shims.

  • Youfah Mizzum on 06/03/2017 - 10:53

    Don't feel too bad about the brakes being faulty.
    I had new pads & rotors done about 2 years ago. As soon as I got the car back, squealing. Mechanic took another look, "she'll all OK, must be some new dust & settling in. Come back in a month if it is still there."
    So I took the car back after a month, brakes still squealing.
    Obviously the mechanic could never hear it, but he looked over the brakes & vouched everything is OK.
    And 1.5/2 years (ish) later, it is STILL happening. Couldn't be bothered going back. It passes rego, and it stops the car so they're doing their job.
    And it' a Holden too - out of their Daewoo factory so quite similar to your situation.
    If you've taken it back, and they can't find anything wrong you may just have to shrug your shoulders & move on.

  • Euphemistic on 06/03/2017 - 11:04
    +3

    If your car only does it when warm you need to drive it around just before you take it back to the mechanic, then take them with you for a drive to test it. Arrange a time in advance so they are prepared for the drive and can spare the time it takes. This is especially important if you can make the car make the noise by doing something specific. eg My wifes car has a click/clunk in the front end. I can make the car make the noise very easily and repeatedly, but the mechanic couldn't find anything when I took it in. I need to go back when they can test drive with me to help diagnose.

    • try2bhelpful on 06/03/2017 - 18:29

      +1 on this.

    • Euphemistic on 06/03/2017 - 20:19

      Just remembered as an example, our car was blowing smoke from a cold start, needed to drop the car in the previous night to allow it to cool, then the mechanics could see what happened first up. Unfortunately it took two attempts, as first time the somebody started the car, then drove it into the workshop for the mechanics so they missed the fault.

  • Nugs on 06/03/2017 - 11:10
    +1

    film it?

    both from inside and outside if possible

  • JimB on 06/03/2017 - 11:29

    Usually due to cheap rotors and pads. What brand pads/rotors did you get, or didn't specify? Some mechanic use good parts, some use the nastiest cheapest pad/rotors. To be fair, cheap rotors are ok but you definitely want good pads.

    Is it a high pitch squeal, a grumble or rattle?

    Try some high speed (80-90kmh) hard braking but don't come to a complete stop (from 80-90kmh).

    I.e. similar process to bedding in new pads/rotors.

    http://www.dba.com.au/tech-article-t017-basic-initial-brake-…

  • Cheeper on 06/03/2017 - 11:44

    How is your handbrake? When they did the rear discs did they wind the handbrake up a little?
    The handbrake uses drums on the rear located inside the disc hub, not the discs themselves.
    A dragging drum brake will make the sound you describe and also the symptoms…
    How is the handbrake… much travel when you pull it on?

    • IPYF on 06/03/2017 - 16:48

      The handbrake feels normal to me, same as it always was. It's not noticeably tighter to pull on or off if that's what you're asking. Would a dragging drum brake be affected (released) by lightly pumping the foot brake, because I can stop the sound by doing that.

      • Cheeper on 07/03/2017 - 02:40

        Pumping the foot brake should have no effect on the handbrake on that setup.
        Try applying the handbrake a little while you are driving and notice the sound… see if there is a difference.
        If nothing new then I would be looking at a sticking caliper… rip out the slide pins, clean regrease and refit.

  • Peace Maker on 06/03/2017 - 15:51

    Could be caliper pins weren't lubricated or even the piston seals in the calipers are worn and the piston is sticking. I have a similar issue with my Mazda. Just haven't got around to looking at it yet. Definitely frustrating. Good mechanics are very rare.

  • aussieprepper on 06/03/2017 - 16:33

    Its your handbrake. Its probably to tight and will wear down its common for it to be over tighten when the brakes are changed. Or the cable could have to much play and it is intermittent rubbing.

    Its most likely not the mechanics fault the car is old so dont go blaming them! Old cars will never be perfect unless you rebuild from the ground up.

    • IPYF on 06/03/2017 - 16:49

      Well if the handbrake is the source of the problem, it is their fault for not checking that was not the issue. I took the car in to find and resolve the problem I identified, and the solution I was offered was to replace the brakes rotors and pads at substantial cost. If the handbrake is the issue, then this should have been identified and I should have been quoted options to address that.

      • aussieprepper on 06/03/2017 - 16:58

        Its a different sound to the original problem?

        This new sound could be there because you replaced the disc and brakes and every thing is tight again. Some times it just happens.

        If its warped disc you would feel the vibration?

  • try2bhelpful on 06/03/2017 - 18:35

    We had a similar issue with an intermittent fault on our baby A-class Merc. The air conditioner refused to work for us, but the mechanic had no problem with it. The advantage we had was this was a new demonstrator car so they, eventually, gave us a loan car whilst they checked it out. We then told them they weren't getting the loan car back until they fixed the issue. Funnily enough they figured out what was wrong the next morning - just before they were going to hand it back to us for roughly the 4th time.

    Best of luck.

  • HeWhoKnows on 07/03/2017 - 14:43
    +1

    Astras are plagued with problems.Save yourself and heap of money and just GET RID OF IT!

    • resisting the urge on 07/03/2017 - 16:59

      Yes but brakes are simple, and Astras are easy to get right.

      Even cheap discs/rotors are fine. Just don't buy incorrect pads. Often, people buy cheap replacements (there are bad ones all over the place) or race pads (plenty of all kinds available from mild performance to full race), all kinds of different compounds too.

      The original GM ones will be ok, or a set of any branded German replacements, or the local DBA standard ones. Your mechanic may have used good ones though, there is no way to really know.

      But what you describe is more of a groan from take off? Remember the pads are not being used as you drive off, or drive along, because once your foot is off the pedal, there is no pressure with which to make noise…

      Are you using your handbrake when you stop in traffic? Maybe it's shoes are worn or it has been adjusted too tight. Any good mechanic will check the handbrake when they do a brakepad change.

      BTW, the noise could well be something else that has worn out or chosen to go wrong when soeone else drove the car (we all drive differently). Take your car to someone and ask them to diagnose the problem properly. It needn't cost much. Often, the best way is to have them drive your car to and from home one day, and talk about it the next morning.

  • doctordv8 on 11/03/2017 - 13:31

    Ok, not totally straight forward, as there maybe a few different things going on. Brakes are most vehicles are now days quite straight forward, and easy if the right tools and knowledge of the procedure. BUT….some have very critical systems too, and very complex in componentry. Aeroplane brakes are very similar to yours in concept and basic design, but I would not want 99% of mechanics touching the pads on the flights I am on and being ex RAAF, I would not either.

    It is easy to make them squeal, or whine or groan and whale even, and if the basics (read brake service done correctly the only needed trick of the trade) are not done, then annoying faults can appear.

    Ok, ask the original mechanic:
    Are new pads suitable, quality or cheapies? This can make a difference if they are too cheap, or too hard in compound.

    Are the Rotors with-in spec? Not too thin, any ridges, grooves, outer lip/s not removed, or even slightly warped out of tolerance? Too shiny, looks nice, causes chatter, groans & poor friction performance to pad surface. Hairline Cracks?

    Were the new pads chamfered correctly from manufacture, or faulty and simply need some or more chamfer?

    Were the backing plates cleaned of all old glue, and or were the new pads and backing plates(if fitted - should be) glued in or self impregnating glued pads used?

    Were all slide and glide edges cleaned and lubricated, as per manufacturer's or Brake Pad specs?

    Was the Piston outer machined polished surface not fouled or corroded? Remember the spinning rotor a few Thou' out of true is all there is push the pads back off the rotor, to stop binding, fouling or binding causing noises & overheating.

    Were the Brake Pads 'Bedded In' exactly as per manufacturer's instructions?

    Then, there is the Handbrake Assy. Is it reassembled correctly, clean, lubricated where required, and not possibly causing the noise because it was/may of been disturbed?

    That is just most of the issues and reasons for an issue with a reasonably standard rear brake system, but not limited to just those options. I need to test drive, or more importantly, you need a log of exactly what/when and how it happens, then you drive and make it happen for me/with me. Patience is key, and you would leave my workshop satisfied or it is fixed again free or if I can not do as I advertise, I will not charge a cent. My customers always come first.

    Then do the same for the fronts, which are heavier, and slightly different in design, construction and effects noticed of issues and causes.

    Not a five minute job now is it. See, all most anyone can do basics - undo a few bolts, squeeze the piston back and slip in new pads, in 5 min per wheel. But only true professionals, either qualified or not will do a brake service or repair properly the first time, 30 min per wheel, because the first way is not making as much money.
    Don't forget WHS compliance procedures at the same time.

    Go find a professional with honest and fair recommendations. Maybe they can have the car for a few days, as I used to on many occasions to fault find, all part of the customer experience to get it right first time.

    It is an absolute to be thorough from step 1 to 10 because as in this case, there are continuing post repair issues, and we do not know exactly which step has failed and is causing your problem. I believe most likely it will be poor workmanship and poor quality that is the cause, not withstanding it is a Holden Astra(sorry, could not resist).

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