Valvoline 0W40 Clearance $ $29.77 SCA Melrose Park

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• 

  bm on 25/02/2017 - 19:27

  +5

  our Accord has 0W20 in it now but is going to 5W40 next change out of warranty

  Finally something I'm experienced in!

  Disclaimer: I don't know what Honda you have or if the engine has issues with 20 weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.

  With oils, the first number is how much the oil thickens when it cools compared to other oils of the same weight. The second number is the viscosity at operating temperature. The first number IS NOT the viscosity when cold.

  A 0w20 oil will thicken less than a 5w20. A 30 (or 40, or 50) weight multigrade (eg 5w30) has completely different characteristics at all temperatures, cold, warm and hot.

  The only correct way to get the right oil for your engine is to measure the oil pressure. Your engine's oil pump always pumps the same volume of oil, whether it's 0w10, 10w30 or 40w70 shitbox oil.

  Engines have an oil pressure bypass valve. This valve bypasses oil at about 50-70psi depending on the engine.

  Oil keeps moving metal parts from touching other metal parts. When moving parts are separated by the oil, the oil heats up, which thins it out.

  Thick oil won't be able to flow as much between your big end and main bearings because it's too thick to pass through the tiny pathways. This means most of it will be lost as the oil pressure bypass valve dumps it back into the sump.

  The small amount of oil that has already entered the bearing race will quickly heat up and thin out, reducing the ability of the oil to protect the engines vital parts.

  If you use the correct viscosity of oil (Honda recommends a 20 weight oil), more oil flows through the bearings than is bypassed and dumped back into the sump. This cools the bearings, maintaining metal-metal separation and reducing oil thinning because more is flowing at an effectively higher pressure in the same space.

  The old rule of thumb for oil pressure is 10psi per 1000rpm. I prefer more for daily driven cars, to achieve maximum oil pressure at the RPM the motor is commonly loaded up for maximum power. This varies for automatics and manuals.

  Manual transmissions allow the driver to subject the engine to maximum torque (at the RPM) from idle. Obviously if the oil is below maximum pressure, it's not providing as much force to separate moving parts of the engine, meaning the 10psi/1000rpm rule of thumb is crap. An auto will stall up, so it's not possible to put the engine under full load below the stall speed of the torque converter. This means you can use a thinner engine oil for a car with an automatic transmission and provide full protection.

  For an automatic transmission daily driven car, use an engine oil that provides maximum oil pressure about 1000rpm above the torque converters stall speed, which will be around the engines maximum torque envelope. Maximum oil pressure at about 3000rpm for most cars is probably the best compromise.

  If you don't know what oil pressure your car is running at various temperatures and RPM's, any advice you take is blind.

  Race cars are different because they live near maximum RPM at full load so the right viscosity is far more important than on a road car.

  tl;dr going to a thicker oil will probably cause more engine wear.

  • 

    Jackson on 25/02/2017 - 20:20

    Thanks for the in depth explanation, I currently use non synthetic oil of a slightly thicker grade because it's a fair bit cheaper, I do my own oil changes, car doesn't get driven often, but mostly because my manual says in our climate here it makes no difference. Are you saying that Hyundai would have worked all this out before listing the thicker grade oil would be fine to use, or are you saying I would still be wearing my engine faster, because if that was the case that would be pretty crappy of them to list that grade of oil as satisfactory in their manual.

    • 

      bm on 25/02/2017 - 20:33

      When an engine is new, it's usually got tighter tolerances meaning a thinner oil is more suitable. As it wears over time, a thicker oil will be needed to maintain oil pressure as the bearing gaps increase.

      I can't say anything about your manufacturer recommendations or climate, if you want the best protection for your car, never use mineral (or semi-synthetic) oil. Even the cheapest group III full synthetics are infinitely better for your engine. There's a website with a wealth of information called bobistheoilguy - have a read if you want more scientific information, there are complete encyclopedia volumes of things to know about oil.

      The simplest way to get the correct oil for your engine is to get an oil pressure gauge and, if an automatic transmission, go for maximum oil pressure about 1,000-1,500rpm above torque converter stall speed at operating temperature.

      Higher pressure below those RPMs means oil isn't protecting your engine as much as it could, it's just being bypassed back into the sump.

      Lower oil pressure means there is reduced ability of the oil to keep the moving metal parts separated.

      • 

        Jackson on 25/02/2017 - 21:07

        I am across the benefits of synthetic oils but the car in question has done 210k and it has no issues, I would expect that even with the current type of oil and regular changes I should get at least 400k out of it which should see out the life of this car. Synthetic oil is going to cost me between double (cheapest I have seen synthetic from Gulf Western) to 4 times compared to the price I am getting the oil I am using (GTX, which I got for $12.50/5L). Just thought I would add so you know where I am coming from

      • 

        bm on 25/02/2017 - 21:15

        @Jackson:

        Synthetic oil is going to cost me between double (cheapest I have seen synthetic from Gulf Western) to 4 times compared to the price I am getting the oil I am using (GTX, which I got for $12.50/5L)

        An extra $120 per 100,000km. I think that's an investment, not an expense.

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/294172

      • 

        Jackson on 25/02/2017 - 21:23

        @bm: good price, but factor in a Costco membership and the PIA of shopping there :) the Gulf Western was the same price at local repco a couple of sales ago (also I would have to check as that oil is thinner, but no matter)

        I guess it depends on how you look at it, it actually would be worth it from the perspective of extending out the oil change intervals, but on the other hand if the motor internals are no longer the point of failure it's still potentially pointless, but yes it's not a lot of money and we are splitting hairs analysing this far (although the lengths people go to to save a single dollar here are something :)

      • 

        bm on 26/02/2017 - 12:30

        @Jackson:

        True on all points.

        Although taking it to a stealership for only one service will shred all savings of DIY with quality synthetic oils :)

      • 

        Andrew-Rox22 on 26/02/2017 - 20:13

        @Jackson:

        we just get our fully synthetic on special… i normally aim for <$35/5L…. having less and less time for my car these days so that little bit more for a more lenient interval is money well spent for me….

        you can get semi synthetic for $15-20/5L these days if you wait as well

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 26/02/2017 - 10:13

    99.9% correct, no such thing as 40W70 engine oil

    • 

      bm on 26/02/2017 - 12:24

      +1

      99.9% correct, no such thing as 40W70 engine oil

      It's actually well known to anyone that's been to a repco, autobarn, supercheap or any auto parts store. Your comment demonstrates why random advice on the internet about which oil to use is mostly wrong.

      40W70 is a very thick oil to get your dying engine to rattle less and make it another 10-20,000km before disposal. When it's that worn, it's often not worth rebuilding.

      https://www.autobarn.com.au/penrite-hpr-50-40w70-5-ltr-hpr50…

  • 

    Andrew-Rox22 on 26/02/2017 - 19:56

    going thicker will only cause more engine wear if it's unable to pump enough to lubricate the whole engine, as below, 0W and 5W ratings are not that different in our climate even on our winters because most of us don't have temps going below 0

    in terms of the operating temp weight, the 40 is still thinner than the oil at starting temp…. you have also made the assumption that what I am moving to is not in the manual- It is and I can go up to 10W50 and it still meets recommended grades in the manual….

    My other Honda is at 240,000km and has used 5W30 all of it's life… manual allows for it to use 0W20 oils as well but it was factory fill 5W30

    EDIT: in terms of 20 operating weight oil general concensus is that it's fine for dailys, the manufacturers do it mainly for best fuel consumption (even the manual says so) but once you put it in any more high load situations, it will not hurt to have 30 or 40 operating weights

    • 

      bm on 26/02/2017 - 20:02

      My whole post is about NOT making assumptions. I don't know your engine and said so.

      Each engine has varying tolerances and wears in differently meaning the most accurate way to choose a suitable oil is to measure your engines behaviour with various oils and make a decision based on the results. It doesn't mean your choice is right or wrong and I didn't suggest that at all.

      All oil going past the bypass valve is wasted because it's not lubricating or cooling engine parts. A simple rule of thumb is finding the right oil for maximum pressure and minimum bypass when the engine hits maximum torque output at the highest operating temperature it'll run.

      • 

        Andrew-Rox22 on 26/02/2017 - 20:10

        curious, what do you drive and what do you use? have you tested for your cars?

        for the average consumer, i just say stick to the manual. These aren't race engines so not worth the time finding the 'perfect' oil for your car

      • 

        bm on 26/02/2017 - 20:26

        @AndrewRox22:

        You're right - for most cars it makes very little difference since they hardly ever push their engine to the limits and when they do it's usually the 10 seconds at a time, the classic traffic light 0-80km/h grand prix.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 26/02/2017 - 12:43

  Look at your own comment before posting your own random ridiculous advice. If you look at the bottle it is 40-70, no W. please get your own clue before offering others advice. You can even see the bottle that it says 40-70, THERE IS NO W, my comment stands and looks like you have no idea.
  BTW, I am a motor mechanic with some 20+ years experience, not some keyboard jockey that relies on dr google for ALL they're answers.

  • 

    bm on 26/02/2017 - 13:18

    Mate, don't get so angsty, if you've been wrenching for 20 years you'd also know how clueless most people are and you'd know exactly what I meant and why I wrote my reply. I read the reply that there is no such product as HPR50, which is a 40-70.

    You're 100% correct, it isn't a 40W70, but a 40-70 designed to replace monograde 50 weight oils. Sorry if I got your blood pressure rising that much, just point out my error, explain why it's wrong so others can learn and move on.

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 26/02/2017 - 15:07

      I did, but then called me uninformed. I also said you wee 99.9% correct, to which you replied I was wrong. Then you claim I was talking about penrite oils in particular when this is a thread about valvoline, again incorrect. And you could've gone to penrite.com.au to confirm before opening you're pie hole but you would rather berate me for innocently pointing something out, but instead you found 1 website that had the incorrect listing to back you up (weak). As this has no cold/W rating it cannot be compared to any of the other oils in this post, also shows that not only were you incorrect, that you also believed autobarn(rip offs) over the oil maker.

      • 

        bm on 26/02/2017 - 19:55

        99.9% correct, no such thing as 40W70 engine oil

        I believed (and strongly feel at first sight a reasonable person would also believe) that your comment above implies Penrite HPR50 doesn't exist.

        Most people who know oils know HPR50 has the numbers 40 and 70 in it, I screwed up putting in the W, Googled HPR50 and posted the result, there's no malice involved or intended. I thought you were saying HPR50 doesn't exist, which is why I wrote that most advice on the internet is wrong.

        As I said, you're completely correct. The comment just read like you're saying a very common product doesn't exist. I tried to resolve this without name calling, but whatever. You knew what I meant from the start.

        I hope you sleep better tonight. Tell some colleagues about your victory.

• 

  sillyhead on 26/02/2017 - 19:09

  Both my cars use a 5w30 normally, and are over 100k. I wouldn't hesitate to use this 0w-40 if I found it. I think you'll find most mechanics would be putting 15w40 in cars in Qld anyway. I dont think the difference between 0w and 5w would lead to any more chance/flows of oil seep leaks. Looks like a better (maybe just marketed product) than the regular $30 ozbargain castrol edge 5w30.

  • 

    Andrew-Rox22 on 26/02/2017 - 19:52

    not unless you go well in the negativities anyway which is irrelevant here in AUS (going 0W to 5W)