Job without mentor/guidance. How do you deal with it?

• 

  ms_caz on 26/01/2017 - 09:43

  +1

  Were you employed to undertake this specific task or is this task just one of the things that has arisen in the scope of your day to day work?

  If you were not actually specifically employed to do this, I would think there would be no harm in asking the boss for further support or for somebody else to take over the task - eg can you get a consultant or an external contractor to do that part of it? It sounds to me like it is quite complex and furthermore that it has been kicking around for a while. If you were not specifically hired to deal with it (ie interviewed and chosen from a pool of qualified candidates) then I don't see that there could be any backlash on to you.

  If you WERE specifically hired for it, then I guess there was a breakdown in communication in the interview where either the complexity of the task was misrepresented to you, or you misrepresented your own ability. If the former, then again, ask for assistance (and it sounds like the boss has no real idea about the task itself). If the latter, I guess it really is up to you to either skill yourself up or confess you are not adequate for the job and accept the consequences.

  good luck

  • 

    Thenarrator on 26/01/2017 - 09:54

    The job description did not include these technical tasks and softwares. I did mention I had interest in softwares hence he gave me some software work (but i never expected there would be no mentor for it). Because its a small firm, boss expects people to do EVERYTHING, not just one particular tasks like big companies. i dont believe I was hire specifically for it but I believe he in his own mind hired me specifically for it.

    Its the former but like I said, it goes no where when i ask for assistance.

    • 

      ms_caz on 26/01/2017 - 10:08

      I get what you are saying. I was once in a similar situation with a complicated spreadsheet that I had NO understanding of. It became clear to me that the big boss himself saw the role I was hired for as specifically that, but the HR people who hired me had only mentioned "familiarity with Excel" in passing and as part of a great many other tasks and duties.

      In the end I made such a botch of it that the task was allocated to somebody else and the remainder of my contract was devoted to the things that I was able to do (and which i had thought were the main point of my involvement in the company). I managed it by communicating with the HR team about the different expectations in the role description between myself and the "big boss". It was quite uncomfortable and I didn't like the feeling that I had "failed". However, mine was only ever a temporary role so for me it was just a case of waiting it out until I returned to my regular employer.

      Your situation is obviously different - I feel that you are very stressed by it and I don't think you will be able to bring yourself up to speed through home study, You Tube tutorials etc. Your boss clearly doesn't understand the complexity. I think you need to suggest that this aspect of the role needs to be outsourced. Play up the things that you can do/your strengths and acknowledge that yes it will cost money but surely it will be done in a more efficient manner (and probably more accurately) and that will be a benefit to the company, as it will free you up to work on the other roles that you undertake.

    • 

      holdenmg on 26/01/2017 - 10:29

      +1

      Mentioning you have an interest in software doesn't necessarily mean you are highly proficient in using everything.

      You need a written job description or maybe even go back an look at the advt. that described the vacancy…

      Clearly you can't be productive without assistance and training in this software.

      Was any training included when the business bought the software (if they own it that is).

      Maybe get the owner to sit down with you and ask them where in the software manual it shows you how to do use the software to do "X" task.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 26/01/2017 - 09:47

  My life in a nutshell

  Constantly working on new makes and models with no / little training and thrown new error codes / problems daily

  unfortunately for some people this is an issue, for me its pretty straight forward as you see one photocopier / printer you know the basics of them all but it has been a 15 year journey learning the problem, using common knowledge and solutions and applying situations to problems

  The only thing I can say is find out where you're having issues and maybe speak with your fellow employees, I tend to find the older guys are the ones with years of knowledge and are the best ones to learn off, sure they don't have a uni degree but they'll at least be more willing to help you out, provided you show them the respect but as I can see you're stuck in a small team so its time to outsource and spread your wings to build a database of people outside your work group to perhaps help you out

  I would be asking the students for help, provided you're not putting a burden on them (shouldn't been someone they work with) then I think you can find solutions to your problems, one thing that does irk me is when new people start and they don't want to learn stuff and be "spoon fed" every single issue and problem, thats when I draw the line and tell them to use the resources and try to work it out before coming to me for assistance, in a polite manner of course as you do not learn if you do not apply yourself

  I tend to find asking for help is a good way to learn new ideas / ways to do things and it gives you a different perspective on a problem, rather than feel like you're drowning and going to the boss, use your resources, peers at work and your own knowledge to find solutions to problems

  Perhaps its time for some more education / training to get you up to speed

  As ms_caz has mentioned, are you meant to be doing this stuff at work as your resume should reflect your abilities

  • 

    Thenarrator on 26/01/2017 - 10:03

    Say the spreadsheet problem, its physically impossible to go through someone else's excel and their data and continue on from it? their data has no description. Only the other person knows what it really means right?

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 26/01/2017 - 10:09

      +1

      I have been thrown into the same situaton numerous times and often the deep end more than the shallow end

      You have been around long enough to know if you inherit someone elses problem, you either try and work it out or start from scratch rather than waste time

      • 

        holdenmg on 26/01/2017 - 10:32

        +3

        Trying to keep (or use) someone else's spreadsheet is a special kind of hell.
        although sometimes you don't have a lot of choice…

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 26/01/2017 - 11:37

        +1

        @holdenmg:

        Couldn't agree more

      • 

        Thenarrator on 26/01/2017 - 12:53

        @shawncro 222: And in my case, its another software containing a lot of data and I have neither knowledge of software + data. Do you recommend just churning through it?

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  chumlee on 26/01/2017 - 10:28

  +3

  Fake it til you make it

  • 

    Thenarrator on 26/01/2017 - 12:55

    If i cant produce results, i got nothing to present. Especially when this task is apparently urgent, im stuck between giving up or keep trying. I want to keep trying but i really just dont know how and dont know where to seek help.

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  mskeggs on 26/01/2017 - 10:54

  Who would do it if you got hit by a bus?
  That person either knows how to do it, or will have to work it out if you quit.
  Talk to them now and work out a plan of attack.

  It sounds like there are two issues. On the one hand, you are unfamiliar with elements of the software that seem essential. And the other is that somebody else has established the basic operations you are taking over.

  Getting proficiency on the software is very possible for you to do yourself, there are books, manuals, online courses etc.

  Working out the previous persons stuff is hard, and you will likely need to look at the inputs and outputs to determine what is going on, but the worst case is you just reinvent the wheel for the parts you cannot understand. Perhaps start by commenting the code yourself, so you aren't continually trying to remember what this part does, then you will end up with a subset you still need to work out.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 26/01/2017 - 13:01

    The previous persons stuff has been work in progress over couple of years/months. Reinventing the wheel would take forever.

    If i left the job, i believe the boss would hire another person like me to figure it out or someone who has more experience with the software. He might also get existing employee to try it (they got no idea how) but i guess they would be faster learners than myself.

    • 

      mskeggs on 26/01/2017 - 14:37

      If there is nobody with special knowledge, why do you think somebody else would be more successful than you?
      Getting knowledge of the software is achievable, and can be done in a short time.

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  Diji1 on 26/01/2017 - 11:01

  students are coping better than I am because uni materials are still fresh in their mind. Its been few years for me and im rusty about stuff i learnt in uni.

  Apparently you have a different definition of learnt than I do.

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  altomic on 26/01/2017 - 11:02

  +2

  airtasker - "wanted: some one highly proficient and advanced in Excel. must be able to do X,Y,Z"

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  StewBalls on 26/01/2017 - 11:13

  I need a mentor

  Nothing wrong with seeking mentoring/professional supervision in any field…good on you for recognising your limitations.

  Ask around for people who might be willing to do this for you, within or external to your organisation…but do expect to pay them for their time.

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  DarthAntz on 26/01/2017 - 11:18

  +1

  Read message to Garcia. It'll take you about 8 minutes.

  • 

    outlander on 26/01/2017 - 18:30

    +2

    Waste of 8 minutes imo

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  [Deactivated] on 26/01/2017 - 12:51

  +1

  This has been pretty much every job I've ever had.

  The further my career advances, the deeper the water and the less direction I get. The expectation is that you make your own path forward.

  • 

    mskeggs on 26/01/2017 - 14:39

    It's the difference between somebody employed to operate the fryer, and a chef being asked to come up with a dinner menu. The creative problem solving is where the skill/talent/value lies.

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  CurtinStudent on 26/01/2017 - 14:26

  hi what kind of engineering are u doing?

  in the post u mentioned about a software, is it excel or is it some kind of other software like matlab, autocad?

  I am actually on the same boat here.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 26/01/2017 - 17:04

    Great to hear someone in the same boat. It is Autocad and 12D. Are you working? How are you managing it?

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  p1 ama on 26/01/2017 - 15:11

  +4

  The first point I want to stress is that you should be thankful that your job is difficult, not be stressed over it. Because your job requires specific and difficult skills, it means that once you develop those skills, you'll become an expert, you'll be valued in the company and you'll be difficult to replace by someone working for $3/hour overseas. Remember this and always let it be your guide. Always aim to find difficult things to do that require learning - if you do easy stuff, that's all you'll ever do and you'll be easily replaceable.

  Ultimately, I think your situation stems from two issues, one of them is up to you, the other isn't really your fault- i.e. that universities continue to fail in teaching the skills that are needed in the real world.

  First thing's first - nobody knows everything. Everybody has to work through things and learn things. It's a fact of life that everybody goes through. On top of that, the skills which you seem to require are also very fundamental skills that are applicable to a wide variety of different applications. You're saying that you've never used Excel before - you've done yourself a huge disservice by never using the world's most-used software in industry.

  You're in the real world now, you're not at uni or working as a casual fill-in at the local department store anymore. You're a professional, which means that you're responsible for your work and you're not there to have someone look over your shoulder and tell you what to do. I've believed this for a long time, but the skills most important in the workplace aren't necessarily just the book skills you learned at uni (though they are important), but it's your ability to learn, to pick up new things, to know how to research and think…etc. This is where you put those skills into practice.

  Second thing is that this is the sort of work that you expect when you work for a smaller company. It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, you have more responsibilities and more work to do and you'll be expected to do a wide variety of different things. But on the other hand, you're much closer to your boss, you'll have much more say in what goes on and your work is more directly related to the actual company's output. I suggest that you keep on persisting with this place because it seems like a good place to work. The boss seems understanding (even though he might not be able to help you personally), but these small firms are where you can genuinely build lifelong connections and be involved in things that are really exciting and meaningful. At a small firm, if you know what you're doing, you'll actually be a somebody, rather than just a name and numbers on a screen if you were in a large multinational.

  I guess my point is that you're in a hard place, but you're not alone. Find some online tutorials, find a course which is relevant through online platforms such as Coursera or another online provider. You're in an age where it's easy to learn things and build your skills. These skills are what will help you keep your job and be more productive. Be resourceful.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 26/01/2017 - 17:13

    Thank you for your input.

  • 

    pink59 on 27/01/2017 - 09:04

    A good, articulated response

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  outlander on 26/01/2017 - 18:36

  Learning the software is part of the job. So learn it. If there are other tasks that you can do in the workplace, split your time between them. It's always helpful to be able to say "I've been doing X and studying up on Y so I can begin work on Z" when asked what you've been doing for the past month, rather than just saying "I've been trying to learn Y"

  On the whole though, I wouldn't worry about it too much unless its going to impact your career, and I definitely wouldn't be spending my weekends learning it.

  It's his job to ask for progress reports if the task is urgent. From the sounds of it it's been going on for a while, so it can't be that urgent. If he asks for an estimated completion date and you want to give him one, add extra time in there. Better to lower expectations now and then come in the hero later if you managed to pull it off earlier, than underestimate and be seen a disappointment

  • 

    Thenarrator on 27/01/2017 - 22:01

    He keeps comming and asking how iam going but all i can say is "still learning this software" and he gives an unimpressed look. He did mention once that I've spent all this time learning tutorials that I should instead focus on the project instead. What can I say when he ask for update? theres not much I can say besides "still learning" ?

    • 

      outlander on 28/01/2017 - 00:21

      +1

      Harp on about how complex it is, and then ask him does he need anything, because you'd like to get back to it.

      Now, when the boss walks into the room, you probably give him your full attention, right? Stop doing that. When someone comes in the room and you drop everything to talk to them immediately, it gives them the impression that what you were doing wasn't terribly important. Always make them wait, even if for just a moment.

      How long do you think it will take for you to sort out? Are we talking weeks, months or years? You need to figure out the timeframe and start implementing some structure before you lose yourself

      • 

        Thenarrator on 28/01/2017 - 00:41

        You read my mind. Thats exactly what I do- im guilty of giving people full attention when they walk in. Well, I want to say months but it may also be never because it might be beyond my capability and i'll never figure it out. And thats what i am afraid of

• 

  Jebediah_Kerman on 27/01/2017 - 10:01

  There's some good advice here. But I'm surprised no one has suggested that you request training.

  Have you spoken to your boss about this? Are you worried about telling him you lack the required skills?

  Also check out 12d trainer on youtube.

  I would not be worried about spendimg time at work skilling up.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 27/01/2017 - 22:04

    Yes I have finished the 12d getting started tutorial on youtube but it didnt help me do my job as the job is more complicated. I spend all day at work learning that Im not contributing anything for the company. He constantly ask how i am going and I would reply 'learning' and he often gives an unimpressed look. Dont know what else i can say.

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  exulted on 27/01/2017 - 13:35

  I have had this exact experience for 18 months but transferring from/to a senior technical level IT position. I was thrust in the deep end of a role I had 0 knowledge or expertise with, and great expectations and responsibility was placed upon me but without any support. Ironically, there was oodles of support in the branch that could have helped me but management there had a 'let them thrive themselves' mentality. Despite staying of strong mindset and thinking I could learn to thrive in such a role and be entirely self sufficient, as every day passed it was increasingly evident that I couldn't. Luckily my old team agreed to take me back but even then their excellent perception of me before I left is now negative and it will take time to rebuild to my before-departure heights. Essentially they think I failed to succeed in my time away even though all my 'soft skills' are much better as a result of the work I was able to do in the 18 month role it's just my technical skills that were insufficient.
  My advice: ur fked in ur current role. Reach out to all people in your/other organisations that may be able to bring you into their realm. Make lots of friends and be sure to manage ur existing team/management to try and make it as positive a separation as possible.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 27/01/2017 - 22:06

    A colleague mentioned it is a sink or swim situation for me

    • 

      pink59 on 27/01/2017 - 22:45

      Sink or swim has been the basis of many a successful accomplishment. Speaking from my own experience :)

      • 

        Thenarrator on 28/01/2017 - 00:42

        Not when you sink?

• 

  BrewerHaHa on 16/02/2017 - 12:53

  +1

  I have to say, sometimes I also feel like I'm in this position; exactly yours.

  I also work in a small firm (not engineering) and when I first started working, I knew absolutely nothing - not even how to use Excel (I was trained in another software that is more powerful for my field). It was also a common occurrence for my boss to ask me to do something I had never done/heard of before.

  But using Google and help sites/forums etc., I eventually managed to complete the tasks that were given to me. I can't say I think that what I'm doing is as difficult as what you're doing (I'm sure you've got quite a bit on your plate), but I can say if you're a uni grad, I'm sure you can stick it out and get the results that your boss is looking for. Someone said it earlier, but uni isn't really a place where the most valuable thing is what you learn, but rather a place where you learn how to learn.

  Anyway, I didn't learn how to learn at uni, had a lot of help from friends and almost failed everything, but eventually I'm here and I'm paying the price. I'm learning how to learn on the job instead hahaha.

  Stick it out OP, I'm sure you've got this! Please tell us how it goes.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 22/02/2017 - 12:17

    thanks for sharing your personal experiences. I think im getting depression from this stress. How long did it take you until you did not feel like youre struggling anymore?

    • 

      brainactive on 22/02/2017 - 15:40

      Thenarrator - if I remember correctly, you're the engineering guy with the HD average and first class honours. Mate, I was in a similar position to you, did well in HS, breezed through uni, got excellent grades, never really failed in anything up until that point, landed in a very competitive job as a grad, started to struggle, realised I wasn't the big fish anymore, started getting depressed.

      This is so common for the high achievers at uni. When I graduated, I created this ideal image in my head that if I continued working hard the way I've always done, I'm going to be top dog (just like I've always done). The thing I didn't realise was that in the real world, hard work alone doesn't cut it anymore. There are no more "marks" - performance is determined by how well you get along with people, how much/little you annoy your boss, how much value you appear to be giving and more importantly, how well you handle crucial conversations (I recommend you read the book Crucial Conversations - it was an eye opener for me). Step back and try to re-position yourself so you are doing these things.

      We all get challenged and stumble at some point in our lives. It's always helpful to remember that you're smart man, and the confidence that comes with that - the confidence to pick yourself up and continue to perform. You've got this mate. Waiting to hear the good news.

      • 

        Thenarrator on 22/02/2017 - 20:47

        please share me your story as I need advice from someone whos been there done it. How did you manage to overcome the depression? did you spend all your weekends learning stuff related to work? how long did struggle and depression last? How did you learn to give value? What stage are you at now, have you reached top dog position now?

    • 

      BrewerHaHa on 22/02/2017 - 20:50

      I'd say after 3 months in, I had most things down. I'm 6 months in now, had a huge f**k up today and my boss definitely wasn't pleased. I have a lot of these moments where I'm struggle still and don't really know what my boss wants/how he wants the work done. This is even worse because both of us don't communicate very effectively with each other.

      I remember while I was at uni I took a programming course called "Introduction to Programming". This was a first year course and I thought that it would be a good time for me to introduce myself to the world of programming. Eventually this course would lead me to the most helpless I've ever felt in my life. I became very moody all the time, stopped eating, didn't sleep etc. Midsem break came early (after week 4 of uni) and I remember every night I would read the textbook hoping to understand the course work. Eventually I thought I had understood the work, but after returning to uni and having my first lecture after midsem break I had realised I was in over my depth. I had struggled to do the first assignment which was due in week 3 and this second one seemed so much more complex I had all but given up upon sight of it. I came to think that my health wasn't worth this course and I eventually dropped it but I still have to pay for it with HECS as I quit the course too late.

      Obviously this isn't uni anymore and you're working to live now, but this was an experience where I felt an immense amount of stress which lead me to re-evaluate if it was worth the suffering.

      This whole course was eventually bumped down a few notches due to a lot of complaints and high failure rates. Since then I have taken other courses which have made me feel helpless, but never that helpless. I can recall I had a computer exam (for something else) worth 10% of my course mark and I was unable to complete any of it in the allocated 60 minutes. I passed the course, but later I would have many close calls with the number 50 appearing on my academic transcript. Those for me were necessary to complete my major, so I chose (or had) to stick those out. If I was unable to complete that major, I would not have been able to earn a degree. The subjects I took were my strength, but relative to others, I was still (and still am) very incapable.

      How long have you been working OP and can you tell us if things are improving for yourself?

      • 

        Thenarrator on 22/02/2017 - 21:21

        Yes there have been multiple times where I evaluated myself to see if the stress on my health due to this job was worth it. And still evaluating to this day. At the same time, I feel useless that other graduates acknowledge the difficulty of the task but never surrendered to it. They had a carefree attitude to it and they were able to handle it. I like what i do at work (provided theres guidance) but dont know if I should quit for the benefit of my health.

        I also understand that sometimes it is important to not ask for help because it seems weak and have capability to figure things out by yourself (but i feel like i would be just reinventing the wheel every single time I try to figure something out myself and it is a painfully slow process). I admit im sometimes too lazy to learn. I mean, im here complaining and procrastinating on ozbargain when I can be learning a program atm.

      • 

        BrewerHaHa on 22/02/2017 - 22:05

        @Thenarrator: I procrastinate on ozBargain when I'm at work and I should be improving myt skills.

        How have your search for answers come along when looking for answers when you don't know what to do?

      • 

        Thenarrator on 23/02/2017 - 13:18

        @BrewerHaHa:

        I dont know how to search for answers, thats how stuck i am. i could be googling but that often gets me no where as my problems are work specific. i could ask someone for help but no one in my workplace knows. Just stuck.

      • 

        Ughhh on 23/02/2017 - 22:54

        @BrewerHaHa:

        Do you actually enjoy the industry/topic/area that you were learning in Uni and the field you are working currently?

        I believe it's always easier to learn and understand something if you are genuinely interested in it (thus better performance and less depression). Some people however, are born gifted.

      • 

        BrewerHaHa on 23/02/2017 - 23:34

        @Thenarrator: So do you know any ways in which you can learn how to use the this software? Or do you know any forums which are within your area of expertise that could assist you?

      • 

        BrewerHaHa on 23/02/2017 - 23:37

        @Ughhh: I wouldn't say that I enjoy it like I enjoy my hobbies, but there's an interest. Sometimes I go on Wiki and look up random things which are branches of what I've learnt or I just look up other things which I've learnt before.

        I'm definitily not gifted :)

• 

  entercoolusername on 23/02/2017 - 14:01

  My suggestion, if you want to hold on to your job, better spend some time learning the software in your own time, I am surprised that your boss lets you learn while he is paying you, most companies will be sending you home by now.

  Treat it like a challenge and learn the software when you get home or on the weekend(about 2 or 3 hours), no one has learn't a whole package within few days(even with mentors). Will take some time.

  Your boss is right you have a uni degree, use the knowledge to get ahead. Engineers are here to solve problems.

  Try multiple avenues,
  - Try learning the software
  - Take it online to see if someone else can do it for dirt cheap( I bet there will be heaps of people overseas who can do it)
  - Look up for forums to tips and tricks(this might only work if you know a little bit about the software)
  - Ask your university friends they might know or might know someone who knows.

  But AUTOCAD is basic, I think almost every engineering graduate knows how to use it, not sure about 12D thou.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 23/02/2017 - 22:40

    Thank you for the suggestion. It is my intention to spent personal time to learn it. Its just, i dont know whether my work is correct or incorrect.

  • 

    Thenarrator on 24/02/2017 - 08:13

    And why are you surprised my boss lets me learn while paying me? how else would he expect me to do a task that requires knowlege in X without me learning X at work and without anyone to help?

    • 

      entercoolusername on 27/02/2017 - 11:00

      Just read your post about the software skills were not part of the job description. Mate in this case take your sweet time. But to be on the bosses good books just try to produce what he has asked for. The only time I would worry is when you put down your ex boss as reference for future jobs and they ring him and ask how professional you were? And did you complete all tasks given to you? That's when he is gonna pull a swifty on you. Apart from that you doing great mate. I would avoid putting him down as a reference.

      How is progress BTW, hahaha jokes. Don't care, I bet you are sick of answering that question.

      • 

        Thenarrator on 27/02/2017 - 20:40

        Yeah I have been worrying about that from the get go. I dont think he is very impressed with me and i have a gut feeling he will get rid of me during my probation. (However i think i had a great achievement in getting done what he asked for, given the time hes set and skill level I have. Im impresssed at my progress and that I have gone this far into playing with the software).

        If i do get sacked what should I do? it seems i HAVE to use him as reference??

      • 

        entercoolusername on 27/02/2017 - 22:53

        @Thenarrator: Find out the reason why they would want to let you go after your probation, tell them you will use that as remark and make sure it won't happen in future, at the same time ask them which other areas they would give feedback on. That's all you can do, just embrace, you cannot win all battles.