Which petrol is best to use - there are many different types from E10 unleaded to Super 91 unleaded to Premium unleaded? I have a 10 year old Camry?
E10 is cheapest -what is difference if I fill up with E10 vs. Super 91 vs Premium unleaded higher octane fuel?
Is using E10 a false economy?
What petrol do other Ozbargainers use?
Thx!
I wouldn't recommend Ms Kegg's special tea blend either.
Use E10 if it is 10% cheaper (or more than 10 cents) cheaper than 91-RON
(eg/ if 91-RON is 119.9¢ so E10 should be 109.9¢ or cheaper)
https://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-o…
Firstly, you should know that there's lots of content on this topic online, but they're from America.
And they use the units of feet, pounds, gallons, and AKI (Octane rating, properties depending on its resistance to Knock).
You want INTERNATIONAL measurements of metres, grams, litres, and RON (Octane rating, properties depending on many factors).
Also to note, our petrol quality is quite inferior to the Yankees.
But as a frame of reference you can say their lowly 85-AKI is our 90-RON.
Most cars (incl. your Camry) are made for spec for 90 RON.
Putting 91-RON means there is a MINIMUM of 91-RON rating, so most cars will be happy with 91-RON.
Now some cars come from the Manufacturers with a recommendation of 98-RON or higher.
This is because those engines are either higher-performance engines more prone to knocking, so they benefit from the better stuff.
Or it could mean that the engine has been specially tuned for higher octane fuels.
Contrary to what is said, you can (usually) run 91 RON on these cars without any problems (maybe a slight decrease in fuel efficiency).
But it is a risk if you are unsure, as some engines can be temperamental, and you could void your warranty.
Running a higher octane on a car that doesn't require it, does not increase your fuel efficiency.
Eg, a Toyota Echo that wants 91 RON, running 98 RON will result in the ~same distance travelled… and no net increase in power.
You might however notice it burns more cleanly, and so engine response can increase.
BP has been in hot water MANY times with the ACCC for being misleading with their claims.
Obviously, selling the high octane nets them a greater profit margin, so it is their incentive.
One of the reasons is because of the claim above.
The recent one is because they claim using high octane fuel "cleans" your engine.
It is true, but only really applies to a particular circumstance which many Oz motorists don't apply to.
So it is misleading. And that's why, if you go to any BP they still have that claim but they've altered it.
And also added an asterisks ; )
But BP isn't the only ones in hot water.
A lot of petrol stations have been labelling E10 fuel as "95-RON Premium with 10% Ethanol".
That is misleading in form and function. And isn't practically true.
Theoretically it should be 95-RON but it isn't.
And while we're discussing E10, we should note that it is true…
…E10 fuels can sometimes contain dissolved water, which can harm your engine over time.
Now under harsh conditions, this should be reason to avoid it.
However, we are talking about extended use over long-time, so the research on this matter is not final.
I personally believe that it is true… however that the wear and damage is so little, that it takes a quite long-time to achieve any alarming results.
So by the time the engine wore out/needed a complete reflushing, that it would be time to take the car to the graveyard.
Thus, using E10 for 91-RON engines should be fine for the 99% of us.
But definitely avoid E10 for engines like BMW's M3 that wants Premium 98-RON (it's like blinker fluid to them)!
I also want to point out another thing, 95-RON is…. NOT…. Premium!!
It is standard. Or it is what used to be called "Premium 91", but it is not high-octane like 98 RON or 90-AKI.
A lot of the times, 91 RON and 95 RON…. are the exact same thing!
It is just that with some fuels, they can guarantee it is at 95 RON, but other places don't.
So in order to not get into trouble with the ACCC, the servos just call it 91-RON….
….even though two competing servos get the SAME fuel from the SAME source.
And its not just that, usually there is very little difference in the chemical composition between the two (unlike actual Premium fuels).
So in conclusion;
- Your car is approved to use E10
- There is a (researched) slight decrease in efficiency of E10 over 91-RON
- There is a (researched) no difference in efficiency between 91-RON and 95-RON
- There is a (researched) no need to use Premium High-Octane 98-RON fuel unless your car warrants it
.
- So stick to 91-RON as much as possible
- Go for E10 if it is cheaper (my rule of thumb is 10 cents)
A lot of the times, 91 RON and 95 RON…. are the exact same thing!
In Australia RON 95 & RON 98 can only have 50 ppm of sulphur or less. RON 91 & E10 can have upto 150 PPM of sulphur.
Some say this can adversely affect your engine but I am not convinced.
I still use E10 on my car even if the manufacturers recommendation is RON 95.
I would suggest to anyone else not to put E10 in your car if it recommends 95RON. It's usually only performance cars that recommend min 95RON so if you're to cheap or couldn't care less please stick to your Camry's
Thx for the great response!
Very interesting but some misleading and incorrect information provided. Corrections as follows:
Anything but E10.
Why do you say so?
I think the argument is that the alcohol content allows some water to be dissolved in the fuel, and over an extended period this can build up in the fuel tank/fuel lines with problems like corrosion or contamination.
There are also ethical questions about the way Manildra got ethanol mandated to be included in fuel in Australia (they are/were big donors to the Liberal/Nats) including market distortions when they were able to get the government to introduce protections against imported ethanol, literally while a competitors tanker full of ethanol was enroute to Australia. And the idea of burning food to power a car when people some places go hungry.
FWIW, I use e10.
Decaf. Otherwise car gets jumpy.
Someone correct if im wrong. E10 is classified 94ron so im assuming E10 is better than 91 in term of performance, but its bad in fuel economy?
There's no benefit in using a RON higher than your car needs. RON is a measure of how much compression the fuel can withstand before igniting. Premature ignition is knocking. However E10 has 3% less energy than E0, so factor that into your calculations.
Then i must be really dreaming when i thought that im getting more performance on BP 98ron fuel. Its either that different gas station have different quality petrol or its 91 vs 98. Next time i will try BP 91ron fuel and will check if my acceleration is the same.
It all depends on your car. If your car can take advantage of 98, either from it's default tune or from the sensors adjusting the timing, then you will get better performance. If you then run 91 octane the engines computer will retard the timing to prevent detonation and damage to the engine and it will run noticeably worse.
The Checkout did a story on this. If your car can accept 91, economically (Price per km) this is the best petrol to use.
So 91 is better than 94E10? Will I get better fuel economy with 91?
Yes you should, but YMMV.
Try it for a few months on either. If E10 is comparatively cheaper, consider using E10 on long trips and refilling afterwards with 91 or 95 if it needs 95. E10 seems to me a cheap replacement for 95 unleaded, not 91.
E10 is more about:
- corrosion of the integrity of your car's fuel delivery system.
- paying farmers to grow energy instead of oil companies (a false economy but worth lots of votes)
Personally I'd not run my (old) car on any more than 5% ethanol. Some new cars have a stainless steel fuel delivery system- these should be ok to take it, however most require 95 or 98.
If you use your vehicle infrequently, don't use E10 at all, ever. (Leaving it in your petrol tank has an acidic effect over time).
E10 doesn't won't corrode your fuel system, it has a cleaning effect on the tank and lines, releasing contaminants. As a results, you associate E10 fuel with collaging injectors and general bad performance. In older cars this is true, due to the build up of contaminants stuck to the surface of the tank etc. But in newer cars or cars with new/recently cleaned fuel systems E10 has no negative side effects.
You will get reduced fuel economy with E10 in comparison to 91.
Well informed answer except for 1 thing. Regardless of age your car the throttle body will eventually get gummed up using E10 and will require a service/clean. So any cost savings become negated.
@Amayzingone: Should only be air going through your throttle body, the fuel is added after at the inlet manifold or directly into the cylinder on direct injection. Only on older cars with carburettors does the fuel contact the throttle.
@JIMB0: @JIMB0; yes exactly. Also demonstrates the level of correctness in the previous contributions.
E10 causes acidic action on any vulnerable components in the fuel system because it absorbs a lot more water than pure petroleum fuels.
At just 10% ethanol, fuel will absorb considerably more water- both before and after filling the tank.
The fact is that fuel saturated with water attacks the internal surfaces of many components between tank and combustion chamber.
On top of that, water condenses on the inner surface of the tank each time the tank cools. These drops of water sink to the bottom, and if the tank is made of steel, accelerates rusting of the tank surface- as well as anything else that is not oxidation resistant between the tank and the combustion chambers.
In a modern EFI car it can also cause the fuel injectors can misfire for a long time before the water passes through. In some injectors, small amounts of water will actually block their minute injector nozzles. These are so small they pressurize the fuel immensely in order to achieve a fine mist (atomisation). Just a little water, as can be present within a week of leaving a half tank of E10 for a week, can easily block injectors and prevent the engine running well or altogether.
Fuel injectors on cars not designed to run with E85 and possibly E10 have internal parts made from steel and other metals- but not stainless steel. Some made during the changeover are not a suitable grade of stainless steel, so can rust also. Injectors will actually gum up and corrode at the valve seat and sometimes elsewhere. Oh and BTW, retrofitting stainless injectors can cost thousands, assuming you can find the right ones for your car.
The rule for my normal car is to avoid using E10, unless it is going to be used immediately and replaced with 91, 95 or 98 once the tank is half empty (and not used thereafter for another fill or two). For cars that specify 95 or 98, avoid E10, always.
Yes in term of fuel economy,but no in term of performance. Ethanol are more easier to burn compare to regular petrol(Assuming that your car require higher octane rating 94ron vs 91ron). But, i would say get whatever is considerably cheaper on the fuel pump, defining considerably is based on how deep is your pocket(I would buy 91ron if it was 1c-3c more expensive than E10).
Camry doesn't need fancy fuel. Try a few tanks of each and assess your economy.
I found that e10 wasn't much different to standard unleaded in my forester. Premium also didn't make much difference to economy, or noticeable benefits of power etc. Mostly I just used standard unleaded.
You notice when your throttle body gets all gummed up and starts playing up that E10 wasn't the money saver you were lead to believe.
Fair enough, but have you had this happen to your car?
I didn't find any real benefit in using e10 though.
Yes, from personal experience and exactly what the mechanic told me was the cause!
What does super mean with fuel?
I did briefly google.
Interesting point of view but what you say about 95 is very subjective.
There is No hard evidence.
Certainly nobody I know would pay any more for a used car because YOU decided to use 95 RON unleaded.
And there is no evidence that you save on maintenance costs either.
Corolla, Camry etc - no questions.
Subaru with turbo engines require at least 95 RON fuel. BRZ and 86 - even 98 RON fuel. These are just a few quick examples sourced from official websites. Are you sure, it just a marketing and will not void your warranty or impact the vehicle mechanical condition?
Dozingquinn on 24/11/2016 - 23:01
The Checkout did a story on this. If your car can accept 91, economically (Price per km) this is the best petrol to use.
The Checkout hey. Must be right then.
Ohh-kay…
As usual lots of uninformed know-it-alls voicing their "opinion" here but here are the FACTS:
The OFFICIAL word is that you can use E10 in your 10 year old Camry. However any mechanic will tell you NOT to put E10 in your car except on the odd occasion when you cant buy Regular unleaded.
As far as which grade of fuel you should use? - this is written inside the petrol cap and in your owners manual. You can always upgrade. For your car Toyota recommends 91 RON unleaded so that's what you should use.
You can always upgrade to 95 or 98 without doing any harm to your engine.
Whether you get any extra benefit from upgrading is another story.
Many argue that they get more kilometers to the tank with 98 Unleaded but whether that offsets the significantly higher cost is another story.
You should fill up with each grade and then carefully monitor the performance of your engine and keep a log of the number of kilometers traveled.
That's the only way to find out what works best with your car.
Personally I would just stick with the manufacturers recommendation of 91 RON unleaded.
Very simple answer without all the bullshit
91 petrol. E10 is cheaper but you won't go as far. You definitely don't need 95 or 98 in a Camry. Arguably you will see no benefit at all except a few extra kms per tank, it won't be enough to offset the extra cost though.
The problem is that 91 is constantly being increased in price.
First 91 was provided at 3c more than E10. That gap went to 6c, then 7. Now it is often far more.
With E10, you pay less, get less, and the government pays for your mistake.
And farmers turn things they grow into dollars as they would if they were helping to feed starving mouths (as opposed to dirty engines).
Only point to buying 95 or 98 is if your fuel delivery system needs a clean or your car's engine/computer can adjust (make better use of fuel with higher octane ratings).
Not sure where you buy your petrol. In Sydney E10 is only 1.5c to 2c cheaper most of the time. Sometimes more. Depends on the price cycle.
Thanks for your support
I had seen a youtube video a while back which tested different fuel types using Camry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgFVob1fEXA
Quite informative and funny at the same time.
Results of that test for everyone's convenience:
2,000 Combined city/country drive in the Camry gave the following results:
BEST: 91 RON regular unleaded - used 208L @ $271
NEXT: E10 - used much more fuel - 217L @ $276
MOST EXPENSIVE: Premium Unleaded - used the least fuel - 200L but at the highest cost $285.
And no noticeable difference in performance!
NB: Standard Unleaded cost was around $1.53/L with E10 just 3c cheaper
The 700kn City test yielded similar results.
Similar tests were performed by the NRMA in a Falcon with similar results except that the Falcon running E10 performed noticeably worse to boot !
So as I said - go by the manufacturers recommendation.
Anything else is a waste of money
Always 95 Ron if your car is new. 91 unleaded you don't know if f they are E10 or not
'Normal' petrol is the way to go. The checkout has a little thing on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-GgWp3kXDM
91 in my motorbike, 98 in my car (specifically tuned for 98). Don't believe the marketing hype - stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.
Petrol is so cheap at the moment. 98ron all the way!!
;)
Whatever is cheapest
For normal cars that take regular, E10 has 3% less energy than regular unleaded. So if it was 3% or more cheaper than regular, I would buy that. However, it never is so I use regular unleaded. Otherwise you would be getting ripped off on the energy content.
If your car is designed for premium then use 95/98 octane.
Here's a list from the Australian car industry of the vehicles that can use E10:
https://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-o…
For cost effectiveness use whatever is recommended in the owners manual. If E10 is available then that's the most affordable choice.
Most owners keep their cars 5 to 10 years. The damage that E10 will do in ten years is sooo negligible that you wouldn't have to worry as the car will be somebody elses problem by then.
E10 has been available in Australia since 2001. Its been mandatory for petrol stations to sell it since 2007. 10 years of E10 fuel and there's no studies or surveys of post 2006 Camry's falling apart.
Personally, I fill my car with 98 RON fuel as it has been tuned to use it plus is not listed as ethanol compatible. I use 91 RON that does not contain ethanol for my 15 year old supersport motorcycle as it is not compatible with ethanol.
There's E5??
I wouldn't recommend diesel in your Camry.