Hi,
What's the best idea to learn AC electric for hobby or electrical DIY works at home?
I've searched short courses offered by most uni, they are for apprenticeship/work related…unless I missed it
Learn Electricity for DIY Work
BigLeviathan on 22/10/2016 - 18:26
Last edited 22/10/2016 - 18:26
Last edited 22/10/2016 - 18:26
Comments
- 1
- 2
Months? What planet are you on? It's a trade.
Yes unfortunately you have to literally train to become an electrician
But to just know the basics to do some home maintenance wouldn't require a whole apprenticeship.
@Euphemistic: changing light bulbs yourself is still illegal in Victoria, however you are allowed to reset circuit breakers and I believe breathing by yourself is still ok.
@OzzyOzbourne: sorry bud, urban myth. Plugging and unplugging appliances, resetting fuses and changing light bulbs, flouro tubes and starters is excluded in the electrical safety act as requiring a sparky.
See last page here: http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/Portals/0/orders/G%2017_99_consoli…
LOL the sparkies must have a very powerful lobby in Vic or the population has a lower IQ than other states.
Restricted electrical license is the closest to being a hobbyist. You are not allowed to add new installation under this license.
http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/Electricity-Professionals/Licensin…This is only for tradesmen to do indusrial work.you can only disconnect and connect same type of equipment.
You need to prove that you need this qualification to do your job.Also you must be qualified to do your main jo.
Every five years you need reapply to renew.
It is not automatic renewal even though you don't have to atten exams again.you are NOT ALLOWED TO DO ANY DOMESTIC WORK EVEN AT YOUR OWN houseSo how does it work? Do you need to take permission before you initiate work in your house? I am just trying to understand how do they monitor if the person who did any work within your house had licence (e.g. changing bulk in VIC)?
I am not sure about changing your globe requirements.
You can't apply for permission to do your house work.you need to get a licenced electrician who provides a safety certificate after completion of the job.This is randomly inspected unless major installation which is always inspected by energy safe Victoria
Victorian laws on electrical safety is one of the strictest in thhe world.
If anything happens you will be asked to provide the certificate.Insurance companies will always find away to reject your claims.This is. One of them(work done by unlicensed electrcian)
Yes, that is not something you should be doing yourself
Our laws are draconian. Let them wire. Natural selection will do the rest.
Except the electrical grid is not a single wire to each house - a (profanity) by one person impacts a whole lot more than just their house.
I'm only talking about DIY not major works. In USA, it's all fair game as it's less risk at 110v. I'm not suggesting anyone wires up their own home though! Perhaps just a replacement light switch here or there.
@bargdebarg:It is easiet wayfor insurance companies avoid paying if something happens due to an electric fault
@bargdebarg: I'm not just talking about a risk of injury or death - something as simple as placing a power cable too close to a network/phone cable can interfere with communications for your entire switch.
Even so, something like feeding the network back in on itself (like accidentally linking 2 circuits, which newbies can do very easily) can kill the next electrician to assume your house is up to code. House fires don't magically stay within property lines, and the person your dodgy light switch electrocutes might actually be someone who isn't you - even 110v is not safe, it's just the US is pretty dumb about safety rules.
If you think it's simple and easy, you are the problem person the law is designed to stop.
@Parentheses: well if you're stupid enough to do diy without any knowledge of electricity and the grid you shouldn't be touching it.
What do you already know, and whats your goal here?
Best way is learn by touching everything and trying different wiring combinations to see what happens.
😨
Your tongue is an excellent multimeter/volt checker. Practice on a 9V battery and work up from there…
Do an electronics course that will help you with fixing electrical equipment. Or try 12v DC solar and batteries , that can be fun. But I'd leave 240v AC alone as you can easily kill yourself or someone else
Fair enough, that's the reason why I want to learn it properly/formally…
Thanks for all your responses, I learnt electronics back in high school (overseas), and over there there are only 2 AC cable connections (no ground).
Since I've relocated here, I think it's a good idea to know a bit more (formally) about it, plus a refresher course for me too.
My short term goal is to replace my normal light switches to have dimmer.
Why not get those wifi lights advertised here on ozbargain that are dimmable.
Mine are LED downlights
My short term goal is to replace my normal light switches to have dimmer.
which will unlikely have a ground anyway
Unless you value your life and loved ones living in your house an electrician can do it safely.
Its not rocket science but to be legally qualified you must do an apprentaships then obtain your licence.
Also to not that if you do electrical work and it fails and burns your house down the investigators can identify the root cause of the fire then hang your arse out.
What i always say to people that DIY…..
Just think about you and your loved ones living in the house with potentially faulty electrical system, i would hate to be living next do to you because your DIY has now potentially indangered my family and home.
A bit dramatic for just replacing a light switch!
I have seen first hand what a diy job looks like and faults.
Not dramatic when DIYers want to takle something they have no idea about… and can kill just as quick.
In new zealand, home owners are allowed to do simple jobs like replace fittings. In Australia, despite sharing the same standards, we have no such rights. The only way to have something legally installed is to do a 4 year apprenticeship.
New zealand guideIn terms of knowledge though, you can take an electrical preapprenticeship course. Its cert 2, last 6 months, and covers the basics. Other options include a test and tag course, which is very basic, but only goes for a couple of days. Neither though will legally allow you to install dimmers.
Keep in mind, if you do these things you risk more than yourself. There was a case of a handyman replacing a light fixture in a bathroom, who ended up killing his wife and the child she was carrying. With electricity you are exceptionally lucky if you get a second chance. source
Is there atleast a list of item that I can do without being lisenced?
Eg. Changing a light bulb? Change a faulty switch?Technically you are not even allowed to change a lightbulb yourself
THANK YOU! the article you have provided me has made me thinking twice (take 4 years course for future DIY versus pay sparky to do simple job)…
Well, don't get me wrong, that's not to say a sparky won't duck things up and kill your pregnant wife, but at least once the dust's settled you'll have someone to go after. It's just something I like to keep in mind whenever I'm working on something.
Same with the UK, it was thought as part of the school syllabus.
Wow the guy in that story was a moron. Water and electricity just don't mix. Very sad.
If I read that right the issue was with the lamp. So what was incorrectly repaired was the lamp lamp that was a plug into wall socket type. Nothing to do with fixtures, fittings or switches. I've been electrocuted by a faulty lamp before. Fortunately not enough leakage to give me more than a zap. But it seems to me that's the sort of repair a lot of people wouldn't even consider electrical work. It's really a warning about repairing an electrical appliance incorrectly rather than taking on electrical work.
Yes you're quite right.
from what i understood he used a product similiar to this as a temporary light
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-240v-heavy-duty-worklight_…
some of the problems were it was a faulty appliance and hung over a shower screen door…
The death in America was not caused by bad DIY electrical as such.
There was not even an electrical fault.
He had hung a lamp in the shower stall. The story is from Virginia. I'm guessing they were mountain folk :-)The point was the RCD could have saved his wife's life if the lamp hadn't been repaired badly, rendering the RCD useless. But yes hanging a lamp over a shower is idiotic and sometimes the price for such stupidity can be a life sadly.
@syousef:
Repaired? I sawInspection proved the deficiency was a design defect rather than a condition caused by deterioration or use of the appliance.
I stand corrected. I read that paragraph but missed the last line. I assumed the modified clearance was due to his repair. I'd say sue the manufacturer but they'd be able to quite rightly respond that the device wasn't intended to be used around water. I would say that it's not related to deterioration but definitely is related to use (or rather misuse).
If that lamp didn't have a flawed design his wife might still be alive :(
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/education/
online textbooks. Self taught material. Doesn't provide you any help in getting certified as a sparky though!
Thanks, yea, I believe I need a face-to-face class, especially dealing with 240V AC…
I hope you're reading all of my comments!
You can't become licenced without practical installation work.
Source: am sparky
The only (legal) way is to do a 4 year apprenticeship and complete your Cert III in Electrotechnology. Then you will be able to sit the LET, LEP and SWP exams to get your A Grade licence.
Upon successful completion of all this you can do electrical work.
Until then you'll have to pay a sparky.
Thanks BensonP, wow such a lengthy process just to replace DIY stuff; anyway…I think I'll go ahead hiring sparky :)
Just hire BensonP the sparky, wonder if theres any Ozbargain discount :)
Haha yep.
I'll install a powerpoint form 2 packets of Eneloops! ;)
(profanity) thats cheap, you will probably be ozbargained within 15 minutes :)
It is strange that you can change your car brakes, or fillet a puffer fish, or drive a boat out into the ocean with out a licence, but something basic like fitting a dimmer switch needs a four year apprenticeship.
Note you can also do whatever you like with an electrical device if it has a plug, just not fixed wiring.
I suppose it makes it easier to regulate, if it is fixed it is off limits.Agree with you. I find it quit strange I am not allowed to do simple stuff without spending 4 yrs training!….
There is more to being an electrician than changing light switches and powerpoints.
You need to now the standards (AS3000) and codes of practice. Everything from correct cable sizes, circuit breaker selection, fault loop impedance (ensuring circuit breakers and RCDs operate as required).
If you like I can send you a copy of the standards if you would like some light reading!
Sure, and there is more to being an auto mechanic than changing the brakes, but changing a fixed light fitting for another fixed light fitting, or replacing a single PowerPoint with a double are examples of tasks that are easier than replacing brake pads, with less chance of going wrong.
I'm not arguing for a free for all, but the regulations don't make any allowance for simple versus complex.
An analogy is I can replace a tap washer for a fixed tap, or clean a drain without needing a registered plumber, but when it comes to power, everything fixed is off limits.@mskeggs:
As the proverb suggests: Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools. Or more usefully, Rules are for the obedience of the inexperienced and the guidance of wise men.Can you guide me to the regulation that explicitly prohibit owners from carrying out electrical work on their property?
I can see that "Owner-builders" are allowed to do renovation on their own houses and this includes electrical work as well!..QLD - It is illegal to do electrical work in Queensland without a licence.
WA - a person who, on or after the appointed day, carries out any electrical work commits an offence unless the carrying out of that work by that person is authorised by a licence or permit.
NSW - Remember, it is an offence to undertake electrical wiring work without a licence or certificate. You can be fined $22,000 as an individual or $110,000 as a company for doing unlicensed electrical work.You definitely CANNOT do electrical work without a licence from your state or territory. You can run cables and fit off power points and light sockets until the cows come home, but when it comes to inspection, signing the electrical certificate and connecting the circuit to 240 volt supply, YOU MUST HAVE A LICENCE.
Really it's trade unions controlling Parliament over the years. Prices are out of control in a protected Market. Welcome to Australia.
Not sure this is totally worthy of a neg vote, an element of truth in that. There are many many simple things that are "restricted" and only supposed to be done by a sparky that could be done by a layperson. There are also many many things an untrained person can do that offer far greater risk to themselves and others that don't require special training or certification.
Legally, I cannot change the plug on a toaster, but I can offer to fix the brakes on anyone's cars because I saw a youtube clip once, or I can put together a gas BBQ because the manual says this is how it goes together.
Definitely not worthy of negs.
The 'safety' aspect isn't the reason for grouping everything from fixed cat5 cabling through to replacing a power point in the same category as rewiring a whole house or switchboard
Well said, at least with a licensed electrician you can blame someone and it goes around in a nice circle. I am mainly talking about the fire catching fixed wiring installed by licensed electricians, imported from Asia somewhere.
The Electricians blame the Builders, they blame the Supplier which in turn blames the Manufacturer. As seems to be the case often with these things, all care taken but no responsibility.
Doesn't look like knowing the standards or having a license is much help when your house catches fire, the insurance pays out, which in turn is all of us insured.
Insurance companies will walk away from claims after investigating fires etc caused by faulty or sub standard electrical work done by unqualified people.
They will sent in very smart investigators to find such work…
Ho smart can they be??
I had a problem with my electrical outlets on my roof terrqace shorting the circuit whenever anything of any substance was plugged into it. Turns out the previous sparky (before i bought the place) had simply wired up the 10 lights and 4 powerpoints to come out of a single light point, rather than back to the circuit breaker and the full power circuit. I know it was conducted by a sparky, because all works in our strata must be registered and invoices submitted to body corp for records.
Not every qualified person (tradie or otherwise) always does a good job. Can insurance pick that up?
Furthermore, if it is just a light switch, its a black and a red wire, unscrewed from the old switch, and screwed into the back of the new switch…
I don't know how a sparky could do a better job than any non-sparky?
FYI - not suggesting sparky's arent needed or dont do a good job, just agreeing with mskeggs above where surely theres some of the simpler tasks which could be completed by the DIY'er without the need to pay $200 for a callout fee + parts, or 2 packs of eneloops :)
At the risk of being seen as pedantic, Active is brown, Neutral is blue and Earth is yellow with a green stripe.
(The colours were changed so that red-green colour-blind people could become electricians without getting 240V or 400V through them).
Just saying……
Yeah but there is always the possibility someone could easily google that and connect everything correctly anyway which wont be picked up by even the "smartest" investigator.
That's incorrect; you're confusing fixed wiring with appliance leads. In fixed wiring TPS cables do use red and black (or white) - not brown and blue. See picture here.
maaate, now we all know the true reason why we started stockpiling eneloops many many years ago, even when the reasons were not apparent to us then.
Furthermore, if it is just a light switch, its a black and a red wire, unscrewed from the old switch, and screwed into the back of the new switch…
I don't know how a sparky could do a better job than any non-sparky?
A venue I used to work in years ago had to get a sparky out within 6 months of being open to replace all the switches on a panel because the original contracted company had a guy who did such a bad job wiring these up that most of the either failed or melted. There was even evidence of a small fire inside the cavity.
So yes, in that case a non-sparky probably would have done a better job!
maybe you need to show them the compliance certificate for the electrical work?
"I know it was conducted by a sparky, because all works in our strata must be registered and invoices submitted to body corp for records"
HAve you seen the records? Otherwise it could have been done on the sly and body corp doesn't know about it. Just because they are the rules doesn't mean everyone follows them.
My old man has a degree in electrical engineering but says he's not allowed to do any electrical work at home, despite knowing how to. Is that true? If it is, then it's just plain silly.
I'm sure your father is a smart man. But has he studied the AS3000 standard?
There are things in there in regards to circuit breaker selection and cables sizes that, if not correctly installed, could burn someone's house down.
There are also sections about fault loop impedance ensuring correct function of circuit breakers. If these don't trip when they are supposed to….people can die.
Mate of mine did e.eng. he was able to do a short course on top of it to be licenced for electrical work, otherwise he would not have been to actually do any work despite knowing how to.
Are you sure it's an A Grade licence?
If I recall correctly, you need to have 12 months of actual installation work.You can't become a sparky from sitting in a class room. You HAVE to have practical experience.
No such thing as an A grade lisence anymore.
Just plain electrical lisence supervisor or contractor.
Haha you're splitting hairs, mate!
Everyone calls it an A Grade even though it technically isn't called that anymore.How long does an A Grade License last? Do sparkys have to sit for more tests and licensing every x amount of years or is it permanent for life boombadah.
The same as a car licence, really. Just pay a fee every 5 years and stay up to date with any changes in regulations and standards.
Inspectors can fine electricians for non compliant work, or order them to be retested, in more serious cases.
Bullshit, it's a 4 year course and you do not get any dispensation for having done an electrical eng degree previously.
If he's practicing as an electrician, I will come after him personally.
p.s. I am with Energy Safe Victoria.
I wouldn't be stating my employer's name and telling people you'll "come after him personally" which could be taken as an implied threat. That's just bone headed. You're looking to get yourself into serious strife.
@syousef: Thats precisely the role of esv,making sure people do not practice trades that they do not qualify for.
I have no problem if you want to ring esv and get their view.
Did I say I had a problem with the ESV? I said I had a problem with how you stated that you'd pursue the matter which could be taken as biased, overly aggressive, a misuse of your power, and even a threat. You want to end up in court with your little statement presented as evidence of your bias?
You could be seen as speaking on behalf of your employer. Are you authorized to do that? What's your employer's policy?
People get terminated for much less.
Sure, ring up ESV and file a complaint. Take it as a threat at a professional level, because if anyone is practicising as an electrician unlicensed or on restrcited license, they are breaking the law and putting lives at risk.
It's like talking to a brick wall. If I was interested in reporting you I'd have already done so and I wouldn't have warned you about it. I believe you have good intentions but you are rude and abrasive. There are better ways to say what you said…If you don't want to take that on board any consequences are on you not me.
he just said his dad has an electrical engineering degree, which means he would be very familiar with the standards.
Electrical engineers are actually the ones calling the shots, i.e. organising 2 sparkies, check their quals, give them the scope of works, check their work, etc. Electrical engineers just can't do physical install due to how australian government structure their trades and legal system
I'm an EE and work in the field as a design engineer. AS3000 is just one of many standards we must consider. AS3760 is more relevant for the work I do. Throw in EMC standards CISPR11, 14, 22. Add FCC and product specific UL standards if you want the fun of getting through the US trade barriers. You can't design a product that connects to mains unless you understand at least the basic aspects of wiring rules and principles of safety.
I can't change a light-bulb legally and I certainly am not allowed to wire a replacement light switch even if I know it has failing contacts due to its age and the inrush of the cheap compact fluorescents installed. Whether or not I can even work on products I design is a grey area. I'm certainly not saying every freshly graduated EE has the necessary practical knowledge to safely wire a house, I'm just saying there needs to be some common sense from regulators to allow a short course with appropriate practical exams (that need to be regularly repeated) for those of us with booksmarts and practical skills that don't want to learn ohms law for six months to only get a limited connect-disconnect license… I understand in the distant past there were allowances for engineers but a combination of industry protection and incompetent regulators changed this.
But has he studied the AS3000 standard?
You don't need that to change a light switch, any more than you need it to change a light bulb.
I'm sure an engineer is familiar with copper terminals and how to isolate a circuit.Nobody is saying he should be able to do everything an electrician does, but many jobs are trivial.
- 1
- 2
All electrical work in a house needs to be certified and done by a qualified electrician. There won't be hobbyist courses.