$130k Annual Income (~$375 savings per week) - what NON REAL ESTATE to invest in?

As money is near and dear to us all, I thought I'd post this question. I'm assuming 'similar' questions have been put to the great people of OzBargain but would like to add a NO REAL ESTATE disclaimer to my question!

What NON Real Estate things can I do with the family savings?

See this: https://www.mywealth.commbank.com.au/strategies/how-much-of-…

Statistics from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) estimate the average household saving rate increased to 9% in the third quarter of 2015 from 8.8% in the second quarter of 2015.
But at the end of the 2014 financial year, the ABS estimated that the average household in Australia was saving 9.7% of its income – down from 10.3% in the 2013 financial year.

I'm yet to gain any proper financial advice, but after careful Googling and speaking to people in my social circles I am wanting to save 15% of my weekly household wage (~$375 per week based on $130k per year) and use this to invest/save etc.

Gender: M and F
Age: 32 and 32
Financial Status: Both worked for 10 years, ~$215k left on Mortgage, Married with 2 young children
Current Share Ownership: CSL Bioplasma $10k
Reside: Northern Suburbs Melbourne VIC

Note: I am very much looking for advice that has no direct link to real estate; negative gearing, beach boxes, you name it!

Thanks heaps in advance!


Update:

Thanks to the many respondents; I am currently leaning towards my current objectives:
1 - Pay off the mortgage debt ASAP via Offset account

2 - Obtaining some more financial advice that would supplement this paying down of debt with my main focus the reducing of reding my mortgage and paying off my principal debt asap!


Comments

        • Fair enough, bear in mind, each time a repayment is made to that loan, that repayment reduces the loan across the board, thus the interest deductibility diminishes over time. In other words, you can't say 100% of every future repayment reduces the "home" principal component of the loan only.

  • +2

    I'll give you 10%p.a. return, paid out monthly. How much have you got to invest?

    • +1

      $250k

      • +2

        Please PM me and I'll send you my western union account details. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity which can help people young and old to set themselves up for life. Do not miss out.

        • +6

          Hi, I am with Nab
          My account number is 17355422 BSB 046166
          Please send me confirmation funds of $80 so we can test the system is working

        • The hunter has become the hunted.

        • @CozmerkIsenberg: sure sir. I still need you to PM me to setup our Western Union account first. As a limited one time offer, the setup fee for this financial package is only $399.

          Please message me to proceed with the setup of this package.

  • +1

    Pay off your house bro sooner….stuff the rest

    There's nothing better than being in your early 40s with no mortgage and all the time in the world to think about what to do with money, than to have thrown investments options all over the place and still paying off your house in your 50s

    • Funnily enough I am heading for option 2 - hoping to be better off in my 60s. 😃

  • +2

    Paying off mortgage is probably the best option. Index fund can be tricky as well, ASX 200 index is flat after 10 years. On shares, pick a company that has little competition in australia, i.e. ASX limited, TRansuburban etc. Corporate bond is another option. Westpac is advertise their notes at BBSW rate + margin of 4.9 - 5.1%.

    TL;DR

    • Mortgage
    • Dividend income companies that have little competition (ASX limited, Transuburban, no banks for now).
    • Corporate Bond
    • I like your thinking about the ASX shares - might be my next long term investment - no competition, tied to growth in Australian economy overall (so will be focus on government) nice steady movement upwards in past 5yrs http://imgur.com/yJ99VYG

      • +1

        On the low yield environment right now, more people will move to stock market. That would be a good sign for ASX. I think they will stay strong in next few years.
        People say blockchain will be a new threat for clearing houses like ASX, but i don't think it will happen any near future. I haven't invested in ASX yet, but this is on my watch list right now. When i saved up enough, I will put the buy order. :)

        • Key metric before you pull the trigger on anything is how expensive it is, i.e. what its P/E ratio is. It looks like it's at 21x which would seem at first glance to be pretty fully-valued (overall market is usually 14-15x) but you're better off pulling together a comp set and seeing if it's expensive relative to peers (presume you can compare to Computershare and Link as well as other listed exchanges?) and also whether it's expensive relative to its own historic movements.

  • My advice is to spend on govt. bonds somewhere (India ~ 7% or South Africa ~ 8%) and when it matures, use it to pay for your children's education. I'm sure it will perform better than your super.

    • +1

      Problem with overseas bonds is currency fluctuation. You probably have to do some sort of currency hedge.

    • The reason payout rates are higher in those countries is because of high inflation and sovereign risk (mostly the former), as od810 said, the biggest issue is currency fluctuation. If India has high inflation and Australia has low inflation, the rupee will progressively devalue against the AUD each year*. You could have a good return, but don't be fooled by the headline figure.

      *There is a mathematical formula to figure out the value in AUD if you know the inflation and payout rates in each country, I can't remember it though, I'd have to find my old international finance book.

    • +1

      Yup^
      US GOV BONDS last year produced around 22% return, this year more like 16% or so.

      Pretty safe as-well :|

      • haha, that's so true. Even though the US bond yield in USD is like 1.7%.

  • +2

    Pay off your house bro sooner….stuff the rest

    This is what I did and I was glad to have done so. There's no other feeling remotely comparable.

    Once debt paid (yes mortgage=debt) hoard gold. The central banks have diluted any currency-based assets.

    • As stated before, gold is for preservation, not return.

      • Correct. In this economic stagflation preservation is good enough for my circumstances. I am saving for the next 1-2 generations ahead so realestate could work as well (except that they are overpriced at the moment). The moment the house price crash I would definitely get me one.

        • +1

          Shhh - you're not allowed to talk about market crashing. You'll make the boomers and the boomer's inheritances upset.

  • +1

    My only comment is that based on the latest federal budget there is now more incentive to start salary sacrificing into Super as early as possible. Based on the current rules it is advantageous to get as close to the tax free cap of $1.6 million - thought should be given to the super balance across the male and female.

    Of course the rules will no doubt change by the time the OP comes to retire but the fact remains that salary sacrificing early and throughout your career into Super is more important than ever.

    • +1

      Err…The changes to super make it LESS of an incentive to maximise your super. Since I've been working with super… the following has transpired:

      Circa early 2000s, up to 30 June 2007: Theres a benefit to locking your superannuation up into an defined benefit pension ($1.3million Reasonable Benefit Limit) - you can get double the tax benefit for doing so compared with an allocated pension (circa $650k Reasonable Benefit Limit)

      10 May 2006: Hey everyone, once you're over 60, you can access the whole amount of your super completely tax free! PLUS, any earnings your super fund earns in pension phase are completely tax free!

      Post 1/7/2016: $1.6m limit on asset base to earn tax-free income via super.

      Nek Minnit…..

      Post 1/7/2050: who knows, but I'm reasonably sure they'll keep changing the rules to screw people with super. Its an untouched pot of gold in terms of tax revenue. $10 tax-free income?

      Just have a look at the history of changes to super & retirement income: http://www.aph.gov.au/binaries/library/pubs/bn/eco/chron_sup…

      Super - I'll receive my 9.5% as its compulsary, and make it work as hard as possible, but to hell with driving it up now. Its a bonus I may receive down the track, or my kids will if I dont make it that far.

      Based on the current rules, I've still got 37 years of slogging away before I can access it - and who knows what the rules will be then.

      I'm in a similar position to OP, albeit the kids part (yet). My plan? Pay-off current mortgage until I'm in a position to re-borrow to buy a reasonable house to move into back in Geelong (say, 3 years time), and then rent out the apartment in Melbourne. By that stage, the rent alone should be paying off the mortgage on the apartment (knock itself away over say the next 15-20 years), and the house should be paid off in 10-15.

      Then I've got a passive income stream of rent (say, $30k/year at this point), and my house paid off living debt free prior to age 50.

      • Tizey…..what does this mean?

        Post 1/7/2016: $1.6m limit on asset base to earn tax-free income via super.

        In the accumulation phase, income is tax free?

        • No, accumulation phase remains taxed in the super fund at 15% on earnings.

          Prior to 1/7/2016, there was no limit as to how much of a members balance could be in pension phase. When a member is in pension phase, the earnings on their balance is tax-free to the super fund.

          Post 1/7/2016, there is a $1.6m limit. What this means, that a person can have up to $1.6m in pension phase earning income in the fund that is tax-free to the super fund. Any balance in excess of $1.6m is going to be treated as if it is in accumulation - the earnings will be taxed to the super fund at 15%.

          It will only effect those with excess of $1.6m in super, but to me, it paints a picture that the government wants to get its hands on more tax from the super environment - this is the first change, who knows how low they will take it.

          Yes, its tax advantageous to be in super. But the cost you pay is giving up certainty as to what the rules will be when you can finally access it. The more they change the rules = the greater the uncertainty around the product = the more people will look elsewhere for alternatives.

        • @tizey:

          So if someone as an Account Based Pension balance of $3.2m.

          Half their earnings will be tax free and half will be taxed @ 15%?

          Does this extend to Capital Gains?

        • +1

          @tsunamisurfer:

          Spot on. Under budget (liberals) policy, you're correct with the 50% on $3.2m balance. It would extend to all income - be it income or capital gains.

          Under Labors proposed policy, you'd have up to $75,000 of exempt income in the super fund per person (they are toting around a $1.5m figure, assuming a 5% return).

          There is a key difference. Assume you have a $1.5m balance on 1/7/2016. Say its all tied up in a single property worth $1.5m on 1/7/2016, and generates rent of $50k/year.

          Under both scenarios, the $50k/year is exempt from tax to your super, and the pension comes out to you tax-free.

          NOW, assume you sell it on 30/06/2018 for $2m.

          Liberal policy - the $50k rent is exempt and the $500k capital gain you make is also exempt. Not only that, but as your balance in super is now $2m, that full $2m earns tax-free income when you invest it into something else. The $1.6m measure is at the starting pension value - if the pension increases over time, so does the value that is exempt. Or so we're lead to believe at this point… nothing is certain as its only budget papers.

          Labor proposed policy - the $50k rent is exempt, and only $25k of the capital gain is exempt. Now, because super funds get a 1/3rd discount on CGT on assets held over the year, the calc is a little funny.

          Gross Gain = $500,000
          less discount = ($166,667)
          Net Capital Gain = $333,333
          less $25k exempt due to pension = ($25,000)
          Remaining Taxable Capital Gain = $308,333
          Tax on $308,333 at 15% = $46,249.95

          So instead of $2m in super, you now have $1.953m as the fund had to pay tax of $46k on its earnings.

          Now obviously this assumes a $1.5m starting balance. But the same process works on capital gains on balances much smaller.

          Make sense?

      • +1

        The changes in the latest budget are perfectly fair and quite logical. The previous situation was ridiculously generous.

        There is still no better way to plan for retirement than putting money into super. 15% tax in for most people is generous. No tax on balances up to $1.6million each is fair. Pleasingly it also makes it more important to work on building up the person who has less Super. Often the woman as a result of being out of the workforce due to children.

        The new rules make it harder to load up super at the end of your career - therefore its critical to start getting money in there early and consistantly.

        The other element which isn't often mentioned is that for any funds outside of the $1.6 million - i.e. taxed earnings still receive the benefit of the tax free threshold. The Seniors & Pensioners Tax Offset (SAPTO) results in a couple who has reached Age Pension age, can earn a ‘rebate income’ of up to $28,974 each ($57,948 combined) before paying any tax. In real terms this is well over another $1m in assets which are untaxed.

  • +1

    what @emmett1 said

    basically i would split your savings in 2 equal parts:
    - one part to offset reducing your mortgage payments and giving you a cash buffer for peace of mind, emergencies, investment opportunities etc;
    - second part salary sacrifice to super

    Every dollar you earn above $37001 gets taxed at 32.5%, super salary sacrifice is flat rate 15% - so you're getting an immediate 17.5% benefit even before your super fund starts generating income on your contribution. The equation gets even better once you go in the next tax bracket $80k p.a. - 37% vs 15% flat rate.

    The downside - that money in your case gets locked away for 30 years. If you're not comfortable with it, consider spitting to 75/25 percent instead of 50/50 with a view of increasing as you pay off your mortgage/get closer to retirement.

    • +1

      Super is a great idea just beware the incoming change in the lifetime contribution rules which are retroactive. Depending on the disparity between you and your wife's earning capacity you can contribute to your wife's super and claim an offset.
      More information available Here
      Information on super changes

      I was in the same position as you but without kids. I opted to further my studies and progress my career.

  • +1

    130k after tax or before tax?

  • +2

    I was in similar situation. My action was to put all the money into offset account first, when I have saved around 10K, I would then looking into buy some shares (had a watch list of shares). Each time I buyI would choose one company to buy for around 10K, All in wife's name as she was not working. I only invested in shares that I think (or HOPE) it would give me over 10% return each year. This is because offset gives around 5% without any risk. Hold the shares for at least one year to get the 50% CGT discount, and also make sure the taxable income does not cross the family benefit threshold otherwise would loose the family benefit.

    Through the years, I usually have more cash in offset then invested in shares. This was because wife does not like risk. sometime need to beg for more money to invest :). As an old saying, happy wife, happy life.

    Over the years, I do make average above 10% return from share each year. Most of the profit was back into the offset account ,so the share portfolio was not that big. With share, you do make some good one and also some duds. eg buying CBA at 26 and sold at 65, or CSL at 33 and sold at 65 after hold for two or three years. However also bought into BHP at 35, and now it is 19. or another one bought at 1.80 and sold at 60c. or something up and down like JBH bought at 18, went down to 9 and now back to 23.

    Now there is enough money in the offset to pay off the loan, and the extra money are saved in online saving account. Now in the process of selling down the share as we are looking to upgrade our home.

  • I wonder how do the ABS get the household saving rate?

  • +1

    Hoard gold? Fine.
    South African bonds? Sure.
    Bet on Red? Why not, for a laugh.

    Buy shares and dividend reinvest? What U Crazy. This message must not be heard. Even OP was negged out for being slightly interested. Lol at the neg losers.

    • +1

      Yeah I'm not sure about the some of the recommendations in this thread haha.

  • Life insurance.

    Just kidding. Buy yourself a boat and live it up. Life is short.

    Maybe that life insurance option wasn't so bad…

  • +5

    Forgive me for not reading the comments above, all good advice I'm sure.

    I think the key to investing is as much a philosophy as any specific vehicle.

    I would echo everyone's advice about paying off your house first. Get rid of the non-deductable debt, then soon as that's done invest your savings.

    I'd also suggest minimising your expenses as much as you can as well by being frugal and thereby bringing forward repayment of your house. Being frugal can be done without necessarily compromising your happiness. Then I would invest in the stock market via low cost index funds.

    These are both american blogs but the principles can be adapted for the Australian environment.

    This is great blog on strategies for getting more frugal, minimising your expenditure while maximising your pleasure, increasing time spent with family, focusing on early retirement. It's been a life changer for me.
    http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-…

    You'd be surprised how much 'fat' you can cut from your expenditure. Although I'm single I've managed to halve my expenditure since about 18mths ago without really feeling any loss of happiness or convenience. I invest the rest.

    This is a great summary on investing in the stockmarket:
    http://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/

    Good luck and have fun!

    • Awesome advice complete with links! Cheers mister!

      • +3

        One other thing. Don't discount the value of your own time.

        Indexing delivers on average at least 7% per annum over a long period of time

        https://static.vgcontent.info/crp/intl/auw/docs/resources/in…

        And some context

        https://www.vanguardinvestments.com.au/retail/common/html/mi…

        Although certain investment outliers may make windfall gains out of big punts, these are the exception to the rule, and most traders would appear to lose money.

        I am a reformed value investor/stock picker. What I never did was think about the time I spent obsessively reading financial reports I didn't quite understand, read (biased and out of date) stock recommendations, read analysis and reports that were ultimately as useful as an astrological birth chart.

        Invest in index funds for the long term. Assume you won't get a ten bagger but take comfort that you won't lose your shirt in the process. Invest your time in improving your life, nurturing your interests, trawling the internet for bargains, learning new skills, spending time with your friends or plotting the downfall of your enemies, anything is better than wasting time thinking too much about stocks/investments, and then worrying about it!!!

        • Great tips. I can see why many people lose their minds reading financial reports and trying to get an 'advantage' in this game of life. I'm glad you mention spending time trawling the internet for bargains as I tend to do this a lot haha! I will definititey look into index funds in the near future. the KISS philosophy is one I'm appreciating more and more.

          With that said, the many hours you spent educating yourself with regards to stocks etc will hold you in good stead for the future. We can't just sit around a campfire our whole lives oblivious to the many financial opportunities available to us.

        • +1

          @rawm: I agree. Although that campfire is warm and surrounded by good friends and the occasionally badly sung tune on the guitar, its worth leaving it every now and then.

          Investing in stocks is basically doing a lot of research into companies, then trusting the overpaid management to maximise returns for shareholders rather than enriching themselves. At least indexing evens out these anomalies/returns.

          However, the index investing approach is to accept the average gain, use the power of compounding, and the time you save could be better spent increasing your skillset to have a little side business or what not. Its about increasing your self sufficiency, autonomy and control of your own destiny!

          Anyway if you're in the north of melbourne you're in a good spot! I'm in inner north!

        • @misterhorsey: Could not agree more - too many professional investors (let alone retail mum-and-dad investors) rate their investing skills and ability to pick individual stocks too highly. Beating the index consistently is very hard to do, even for the professionals.

  • +3

    I highly recommend the book Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley. It changed my view of savings, wealth accumulation and what it is to be a millionaire.

    • Great book

  • Your small amount of saving are better off spent on paying off your mortgage

    $5000 investment even at a 8% return is not a big deal of difference to the 5% interest charged - net 3% gain

    not worth the hassle in my opinion

    • A net 3% gain against 5% cost should be considered a big deal, it's a relativity of 60%

      • LoL of $400 a week? Seriously -$12 gain
        We are talking piss money here to take on unnecessary risk

  • The best for you is to find a better pay job.130k is pretty low for a couple,even after tax. I am not talking about something normal people can't archieve. Everyone working hard can get 100k after tax and its 200k for household. Saving money can't make life much easier.

    • Joe - you back in Australia!

    • +1

      I don't think its very classy to tell people what they are earning is pretty low, particularly when they are doing well and making a good go of it.

      You don't even know their breakup of income, could be 100k main bread winner and 30k part time stay at home parent.

      Even if it were 65k each, is it that bad?

      AWOTE is $1,499.3, in annual terms just under $78k is the average wage. The Median wage is estimated to be 80% of average which would be about 62.3k. So these guys are above median.

  • Sorry if you already mentioned it but is the 130k pre or post tax.

  • +1

    I think this forum, as a set of bargain hunters, is very risk averse. Hence the echo chamber advice of paying the mortgage.

    With record low rates, paying off the mortgage / putting into a savings account is a low returning strategy. In what market conditions would the commenters tell you to invest if not today's? I would only pay down the mortgage exclusively if you are bearish on asset markets.

    If you believe historical average share returns will continue over the longer term, then you would be better off building a low fee equity portfolio (in or out of super).

    As pointed out by some you can do both. Pay down principal and borrow to buy shares/ETFs/hybrids

    I second the reference to MMM (or ERE) - there are some impressive benchmarks of saving/investing there

    Edit: typo

  • +1

    Invest in some real estate in the Hereafter. No better investment than that one.

  • If security is an overriding issue then the main focus would be on keeping your job and staying relevant to the job market.

    Young people talk about high-paying jobs like it's a given. Once your debts are paid off (house and kids) it becomes a lot easier to do as you please - assuming your marriage lasts.

  • +1

    Acorns app is a great low cost way to invest small amounts at regular intervals.

    Worth looking at.

  • +1

    GET RID OF MORTGAGE!
    The world of investing opens up to those with no mortgage. Banks all of a sudden like you. Other lenders love you, and Credit Card companies want to become your BFF (Gotta push THEM away with a stick!).
    You also become much more financially savvy. No, I don't know why, it just happens. (Well, it did with me). Perhaps its because you are like the cow let out of the holding yard and can freely choose the better grass over there, or there, or there!
    With your own patch of the face of mother Earth, you can put some $$ into Super, Blue Chip shares, maybe play the day-trader game with a bit, quality collectables, property ( if you don't like residential then how about some commercial/industrial?).

  • +1

    dividend paying bluechip shares.

    everyone saying pay of mortgage, I would disagree. interest rates are so low atm, better investment in dividend shares in the long term.

    only reason not to is if you need liquidity in the short term.

    • This is the million dollar question - pay down the mortgage, getting debts down to $0, or continue minimum repayments and plonk the $ into some bluechips….

      • Here is a question for you, if you are able to pay the extra 375 into your mortgage, what age will you be when you are mortgage free and can do absolutely anything you want?

  • Sell your current house…buy a house larger than 227.6 square metres, with finance using an interest only loan…it's whats trending at the moment and is cool with all the people that have overgrown beards and dress like they are from the 1920's but really have a Galaxy S7 or I-phone 10 in there pocket…

  • The big 4 banks are really cheap at the moment - NAB is great value and pays good dividends.

    My two cents!

  • +1

    Another benefit of paying off your mortgage earlier is that your primary residence is CGT exempt, so when you retire 30 years later, you can sell it off CGT exempt & mortgage free, downsize to a smaller place/relocate to SE Asia and live like a king. Obviously this is on the proviso, the CGT exemption on primary residence still remains in 30 years time.

  • +1

    Some options (This is GENERAL advice, I'm not RG146 qualified):
    -Pay down home loan / leave in offset if it exists.
    -Join a P2P site like Ratesetter and loan out your money (up to 9% return possible)
    -Shares - oil's just gone back to $50, and people are getting bullish again.

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