Stopped working but still getting paid.. What should I do?

illumination on 16/04/2016 - 16:51
Last edited 16/04/2016 - 16:51

Hello Ozbargainers,

I am going to be vague because I don't want either myself or the company/employer to be identified.

I stopped working at this place a "some time ago", but I've still had "a few" pay packets coming into my account.

I believe we get paid in arrears (that's how it normally is right? I don't imagine an employer would pay in advance otherwise you could run away).

I am happy to pay back, but in the meantime I'm happy with the money coming in for me to just accrue interest on.

Just to make it clear, I'm not trying to run away with the money! What I'm mostly concerned about is whether they can make me pay back MORE than what they've paid me. I guess this might touch on some legal issues, so happy for a discussion to take place, but like I said I will be vague and I will stay vague.

What should I do?

After "a few" pay packets I fear it's a bit too late to claim "I didn't check my account so didn't realise money was still coming in" if/when I contact them.

Thanks in advance

Financial

Comments

  • p1 ama on 16/04/2016 - 17:00
    +34

    If you've stopped working some time ago, you shouldn't still be paid. Work out the math and see if all your pay slips add up. If you've been paid extra, contact the employer and let them know.

    There's really nothing more to this, there should be no "if/when" you will be contacting them, you should contact them ASAP. You might not realise this now, but it'll help you in future when you have previous employers who like you and think that you are an honest person.

    If you try to run away from it, give lame excuses (e.g. "I didn't check my account"), they'll believe that you tried to pull a dodgy on them and take their money. You think when your new prospective employer contacts them to talk about you that they'll say good things about you? Probably not.

    Don't leave a sour taste in people's mouths. If it were hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'd understand, but for three or four digit amounts, why would you?

    • nikey2k27 on 18/04/2016 - 08:34
      -5

      This happens to my dad hold the money in another bank account wait for them to find it. Went they do tell them you have lots money going in and out of that bank account. then pay back some of it. my dad last company 5 year to work it out. only had to pay back 3months worth.

      • TenaciousTom on 18/04/2016 - 09:50
        +4

        It seems like you have a valuable example to give, but you really rushed it. Would you mind explaining this a bit better?

        • JimB on 18/04/2016 - 12:28
          +9

          "my dad knew the money wasn't suppose to be paid to him but keep the money anyway. He didn't spend it but put it into another bank being the wise man that he is.

          He didn't really care as his old employer was a massive company. It took them 5 years to work it out but only had to pay back 3 months worth. The bad publicity wasn't worth it for the company.

          As the apple doesn't fall far from the tree I see nothing wrong with what he did.

          Being a outstanding citizen, he paid tax on the 'income' as he didn't want to do anything illegal such as not declare income.

          He took out the remaining funds from the account to buy himself a new car, go on a holiday and the rest on eneloops.

        • tomclancy on 18/04/2016 - 15:31

          @JB1:

          JB1 & nikey2k27 are the same person?

        • cashews on 18/04/2016 - 16:15
          +4

          No you might find that there was some sarcasm in the post.

        • Jackson on 18/04/2016 - 16:58
          +2

          @JB1: "As the apple doesn't fall far from the tree…"

          Hilarious

      • Gershom on 19/04/2016 - 10:51
        +1

        Your father is a thief.

  • CyberMurning on 16/04/2016 - 17:10
    +10

    Yeah contact and return all immediately this is not the same as finding money on the street or win jackpot in casino.

  • rambutann on 16/04/2016 - 17:36
    -7

    Claim that you only just noticed, say that you are unable to pay it all back at once, they will demand small payments at minimum as it was their error, pay back small amounts and accrue more interest! :)

  • ozhunter on 16/04/2016 - 18:00
    +8

    I am happy to pay back, but in the meantime I'm happy with the money coming in for me to just accrue interest on.

    How much interest do you think you're getting on it?

    • illumination on 17/04/2016 - 15:19

      Haven't calculated it and I won't post it here after I calculate because then you can figure out how much I got :P
      But probably several tens of dollars?

      • matthewli88 on 18/04/2016 - 11:15
        +6

        I don't know about your financial situation, but for 'several tens of dollars' I personally would not find this benefit worth the cost as mentioned by paulsterio's comment above.

  • trex on 16/04/2016 - 18:03
    +3

    Your ex employer has probably paid super and PAYG into your super and ATO accounts as well. Both of these would be hard to pay back to your ex employer since you can only access these after lodging your tax return or retire, chances are those amount are yours to keep.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/04/2016 - 18:28
    +2

    Are we talking a matter of weeks or a matter of months here?

    This reminds me of the case in Spain discovered recently where a person was being paid years after leaving work at a government department.

  • GameChanger on 16/04/2016 - 19:19
    -3

    Just let the money accrue, its the employers responsibility to contact you.

    Since you're not spending it anyways, you may as well gain the interest.

  • catbrain on 16/04/2016 - 19:41
    +2

    I agree with paulsterio - you definitely need to contact them. But you can get them to do the investigation of whether you should have been paid - just say that you think you may have been paid in excess of your entitlement. Say something along the lines of you'd have to check your statements to be sure - that you're only going on your expected balance - can't they check straight away? But also follow it up with an email to the Payroll person/area, confirming your conversation. That way, you have done the right thing if they continue to pay you. And if you receive another couple of pays, contact them again.

    I'm guessing (if they're smart - not proven to be so far) that they will immediately stop any payments that might be scheduled and then they will work out whether you have been overpaid and by how much. That will probably take a little time, so you'll be earning interest in the meantime. And make sure that they put their repayment request in writing as well, on letterhead, to make sure it's formal. AND re-check the calculation.

    I'm assuming you got some sort of lump sum when you left, for remaining annual or long service leave entitlement etc., and that's why you're questioning it?

    • Jackson on 18/04/2016 - 17:01

      You my friend, have a catbrain

  • sparkles on 16/04/2016 - 20:29
    +3

    I'd determine whether they are paying you for leave you may have accrued.

    But, ultimately you need to discuss it with them. As lovely as free money is, it's not yours. It's going to be a strange discussion six months down the track, as the longer it goes on, the dodgier you will look. Reversing money out of superannuation will also be problematic.

  • Diji1 on 16/04/2016 - 20:35
    +13

    Don't listen to the fools telling you to contact the employer about it, that is a ridiculous notion. Just keep collecting interest on it, pay it back as soon as they contact you.

  • shrek4 on 16/04/2016 - 22:32
    -2

    Obtaining financial advantage by deception is a crime and can carry 10yrs jail.

    If you are aware the payments are being made in error and make no attempt to rectify the situation it is considered theft.

    The fact you're not spending the $$ and will pay it back if asked makes no difference. You're still getting an advantage.

    You know reporting it and repaying the $ back is the right thing to do. The fact you're asking suggests your moral compass is either broken or needs new batteries.

    Good luck.

    • bobbified on 17/04/2016 - 08:27
      +2

      and where is the "deception"?

      • DrDollar on 18/04/2016 - 06:19

        This thread…

        • nikey2k27 on 18/04/2016 - 08:36
          +2

          No it not.

      • YellowDieselGolf on 18/04/2016 - 12:33
        -3

        Deception = not calling HR at his old company.

    • Deridas on 17/04/2016 - 10:50
      +6

      The fact that OP is asking suggests he HAS a moral compass. He's torn between his ozbargaining roots and what he thinks is morally correct and so he's asking for advice.

      The other things you have said is spot on though.

  • subydooby on 16/04/2016 - 22:37
    +2

    Its going to be more hassle for you to sort it out later, so i would contact them sooner rather than later.

  • tomclancy on 16/04/2016 - 23:32
    +5

    I believe we get paid in arrears (that's how it normally is right?

    For monthly salary staff being paid on 15th of each month I believe it is 2 weeks in arrears, 2 weeks in advance. Not sure how it works with weekly/fortnightly salaries.

    What I'm mostly concerned about is whether they can make me pay back MORE than what they've paid me

    No. Well sort of. A similar thing happened to a friend of mine 3 years ago. He took a 12 month sabatical from work (full-time lecturer) but was continued to be paid on the 15th of each month. After 9 months the uni contacted him and said they made a mistake and asked for the money back. All of it including the PAYG that they had deducted and paid to the ATO on his behalf. The premise being that in his next tax return it would all square up. They sent him links to the ATO website clearly indicating this is the normal situation for such scenarios but I don't have them on me - you'd have to look it up on the ATO website yourself.

    At the moment you are saving interest but it can go the other way if you have to pay back the PAYG to your previous employer. I'm not saying you should contact your previous employer (far from it, I think the do-gooders would have a change of attitude if they were in your shoes) but I am saying you should have a good think about timing of possible repayments in relation to timing of tax returns.

    EDIT: here is a link to the ATO website I just quickly googled: https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/PAYG-withholding/In-detail/A…. Hope this helps

    • sparkles on 17/04/2016 - 04:38
      +4

      The taxation implications are interesting because getting paid for two jobs may bump you to a higher a tax bracket of which neither employer is taking account of. You might end up with a tax bill or be seen as evading tax if you don't declare the second income which will be being reported to the ATO and data-matched at tax time. The interest benefits gained now may not outweigh the issues this extra "income" creates. This will take time and possibly major hassle to sort out later.

      • WhatWouldBiggieDo on 18/04/2016 - 11:15
        +1

        I don't understand what you mean by this?

        If the money is yours to keep, PAYG would have already been taken deducted.

        If the money need to be paid back, it wouldn't be on your group certificate, and so wouldn't affect your tax bill at the end of the year.

        You can't give the money back AND be made to pay tax on money you don't earn

        • gromit on 18/04/2016 - 16:21
          +2

          PAYG is calculated at your income level, Each employer would be unaware of the other paying him and hence his tax rate may need to be at a higher rate if the combined income puts him into another tax bracket. Thus come tax time he gets a tax bill for underpaying taxes. The issue comes if it lasts past the end of the tax year as it will almost certainly be showing up at the ATO, you will then need to claim the extra tax back from the ATO once the pay has been cleared up. A huge mess to get in for such a small gain.

        • WhatWouldBiggieDo on 19/04/2016 - 09:37

          @gromit: So he would end up with a tax bill but would have made a windfall gain. He's still no worse off

        • gromit on 19/04/2016 - 15:44

          @antt: that assumes he gets to keep the money. The problem occurs if the money then needs to be returned, he is then left having to reclaim money from the Tax department while at the same time reimburse the taxes the company paid on his behalf. At best it will be hugely inconvenient, at worst he may be out of pocket for a period of time while waiting for the ATO to fix the tax side.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/04/2016 - 19:07
      +1

      If the error is picked up before EOFY see example two and comments at the end of the page in the link. They employee only need repay $800 and employer will revise relevant labels for PAYGW on their activity statement and receive $200 refund/credit back from the ATO

      Also gromit is correct if OP says nothing employer paying for job he is not attending will send his payment summary to ATO at years end at which point when OP files return the income and PAYGW credits are pre filled he will have two choices

      1. Declare income and pay tax (using credits put aside) which probably won't be enough if he now has another job and also this will get messy later when employer finds the mistake and tries to reverse it

      2. Contact employer to notify error..

      It's just a matter of time it's already April. They usually send them 2 weeks after EOFY

  • stevensx on 16/04/2016 - 23:59
    +5

    You're clearly feeling uneasy about it, to the extent that your posting it on OzBargain forums. Answer's pretty simple: Ring up your ex employer and sort it out. It may be owed to you or it may be an error. It's clearly on your mind, just fix the situation.

  • t_c on 17/04/2016 - 05:47
    +10

    This has been a dream of mine for a very long time.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2016 - 07:12
    +1

    These kind of things will typically get picked up at the end/start of the next fin year when they verify who's on the payroll and what was spent

    The only way it wouldn't is if the organisation is so big with too many employees but eventually it should be

    • iseenya on 18/04/2016 - 19:03

      Sooner or later an audit should pick it up, surely.

      • tomclancy on 18/04/2016 - 21:02
        +1

        I see you haven't worked in auditing :)

        Assuming there even is an audit (a huuuuge assumption) payroll audits are done by the most junior of staff who only check a sample of payments against the corresponding payroll reports. If the OP is still on the books it would go under the radar.

  • mr_alligator on 17/04/2016 - 09:30
    +6

    When the employer calls you asking for their money…say Sorry No English :D

  • woteva on 17/04/2016 - 09:34

    Where did you work ?
    Might see if I can get a job there and then leave…..

  • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2016 - 09:53
    +1

    And you're sure that it isn't leave you are owed? I would go to them and ask why i am still being paid. Businesses do try to rip off their employees, so I'm not sorry to see a large business make mistakes like this, but it could be trouble for you if you do need to pay back the gross amount.

    • macrocephalic on 18/04/2016 - 09:11
      +3

      Leave is calculated at paid in a lump sum, normally.

  • Brendoo on 17/04/2016 - 11:19
    +14

    Sort it out asap. I have been in a similar situation and it can turn into a nightmare. It's not as simple as "just giving the money back". You need to check implications re Super and the ATO and be 100% that all of this is tidied up correctly.

    To give a simple example. Say they overpaid you $20,000. Say they said to you "please give us $20,00 back" and you do a transfer into their bank account. What about the Super that got paid to the Super company. You will need to be involved with that and ensure they deduct exactly the right amounts of Super from your account back into theirs and that is all documented properly. You will need to sign paperwork to give the Super company permission to let them withdraw from your account.
    Re Tax, you need to keep an eagle eye on that. Your ex-employer should sort everything out with the ATO - but it is up to YOU to ensure they have done this properly. Get full documentation of everything from your ex-employer. If, for example, your ex-employer took the $20,000 back, BUT didn't take care of everything with the ATO properly, then you would be recorded with the ATO as earning that $20,000 (but you gave it back) and it would be part of your annual income and you would be taxed on it. Have all the paper work clearly documented and check it all when you receive your PAYG Payment Summary (aka Group Certificate) in July this year and check the numbers to be sure they didn't include the overpayment in your earnings.

    And as someone else said, if you have another job, you cannot be getting the Tax Free Threshold in both "jobs", one of them has to be taxed at the maximum tax rate. If this is flagged by the ATO, you may get a big tax bill (although they should contact your employer to ensure you are taxed higher in the new job until you sort this out).

    In other words, get it sorted, it can only get worse.

    • jenkemjunkie on 18/04/2016 - 07:34
      +5

      Yes you can get the tax free threshold on two jobs… They just don't like it because people end up getting a tax bill and most people are so bad with money that they won't be able to pay it.

      So many people harp on about this and they have no idea. The government must love that most people think this is illegal because essentially they get a free loan. I held two jobs for 3 years whilst at uni and claimed tax free threshold on both. All that meant was I got a tax bill. I should have kept cards of my tax lawyer to hand out to all the people that claimed I was doing naughty no-nos.

  • illumination on 17/04/2016 - 15:18
    +10

    Hi all,

    Appreciate all the responses. Whether positive, negative, criticism or compliments, happy with all.

    My intention all along was basically to do what Diji1 suggested. As I mentioned in the OP, I was never planning to run away with the money.

    I think the ones that really hit me were all the comments on the implications on tax/super. I didn't really think about that at all.

    I should contact my employer ASAP.

    Thank you all :)

    • GameChanger on 17/04/2016 - 15:26

      The tax implications are not that big of a deal.

      But yes you should contact your employer so that it saves time.

      • illumination on 17/04/2016 - 15:27
        +2

        Yes it's more to do with the hassle/time/effort to sort out the tax/super stuff. That's what I'd rather avoid.

        • GameChanger on 17/04/2016 - 15:30
          +1

          Yeah the ATO can be a nightmare to deal with, especially if you're now working again.

    • trongy on 18/04/2016 - 12:37
      +2

      I had a friend who did what you were thinking of. He kept the money in an interest bearing account intending to pay the money back when the mistake was discovered. It took the former employer 6 months before they stopped payments and he then paid the money back.

      In his mind he did nothing wrong. However the story got out and many who heard about it thought he was dodgy. I don't think he considered how the damage to his reputation could affect his future career.

      • rawm on 18/04/2016 - 13:03

        I had a friend who did what you were thinking of. He kept the money in an interest bearing account intending to pay the money back when the mistake was discovered. It took the former employer 6 months before…

        Damn, you know your friend's story well.

        Did you communicate with him by looking in a mirror perhaps?

        • trongy on 20/04/2016 - 19:23
          +1

          Ha.
          It's a true story that happened over a decade ago. He confided in me when he first noticed the overpayments. I as curious how it would pan out, so naturally I asked him for updates now and again when we were having a drink.

        • rawm on 20/04/2016 - 19:33

          @trongy: You sound like a good friend with a great memory! :)

  • [Deactivated] on 17/04/2016 - 16:35

    Please ignore those who say it is the employer's responsibility to stop paying. Once you realise that you are receiving money that you are not entitled to it becomes your responsibility.
    Furthermore, you are not entitled to the interest, as it is not 'your money' and if the previous employer decides to make an issue of it you could be in trouble.

    • kima on 17/04/2016 - 21:22

      what trouble?

      • [Deactivated] on 19/04/2016 - 10:45
        -1

        OP has no title to the money, so if he uses it to accumulate interest (a financial advantage), that he intends to keep, he commits fraud.

    • chumlee on 18/04/2016 - 07:53
      +3

      OP can only be asked to pay back the money. That's it. There is no trouble OP could be in. If there is enlighten us please

      • jenkemjunkie on 18/04/2016 - 10:36
        +3

        My mummy said HR has a department where they send someone to your house to give you a kick in the bum. So you should be good little 'company man' and give the money back!

        Hell, I've heard of some massive companies just direct debiting your account the amount. I bet the paragons of justice and ethics that pervade ozbargain wouldn't enforce their own rights if it happened to them. They'd convince themselves it was okay through some cognitive dissonance process.

  • lost69 on 18/04/2016 - 07:16
    +1

    Who cares! Its yours now. I've been paid extra once, twice if you count this odd salary thing. Free money. Which is now mine. Mmmmm. Go to the whorehouse and rejoice.

  • vroomkroom on 18/04/2016 - 07:38
    +3

    I had similar incident few years ago but it stopped after two months. Even after contacting the HR team they couldn't be bothered to collect this money. It was from Big T and it look me few calls to get through HR. Eventually, I ended keeping that money and paid tax on it ( Also donated about 50% of that as well )

  • TheBird on 18/04/2016 - 08:49
    +2

    You should have contacted them instead of posting here. It's not worth having this shit over your head for the rest of your career.

    • illumination on 18/04/2016 - 09:12
      +1

      Can I not do both? You make it sound like doing this takes a lot of time. Worth having what? I'd imagine it's more to do with hassle/time in rectifying the issue rather than a black mark against your name, so not sure what you're referring to by that either.

      • TheBird on 19/04/2016 - 08:23

        When you go for your next job and they call that employer as a reference. How do you think the conversation will go?

        Is it worth it for a little bit of extra cash?

  • SpaceNinja on 18/04/2016 - 09:23
    +15

    Well, my boss never does anything and still gets paid.

  • Grofazau on 18/04/2016 - 11:09
    +1

    I left an employer 16 years ago, taking my company car with me (intending to transfer the lease). Despite numerous contacts before I left and over the 6 months immediately following my separation from them they continued to say, "Yeah, yeah we'll get around to sorting it out", whilst still paying the lease payments. After six months or so I just stopped bothering, thinking they'd eventually sort it out. Around the twelve month mark I got a call from the lease company saying that they'd been informed I was taking over the lease and that they wanted to make the arrangements. Long story short, I ended up just paying out the lease and contacted my old employer one last time about the lease payments. Never heard back from them.

  • Dabbler68 on 18/04/2016 - 11:47
    +1

    I would tell them about it now. The longer you leave it the harder it will be to deal with.

    As noted above, there are taxation and superannuation issues building up, and theses may be tedious and time consuming to resolve. Group Certificates and tax returns are a couple of months away …. what will you do then?

    The smaller the amount, the more possibility they will not push for recovery. You initiating the contact may improve those chances.

    • rawm on 18/04/2016 - 13:05

      I would tell them about it now. The longer you leave it the harder it will be to deal with.

      Agreed. it's one of those instant wins that'll end up costing you more in the long run.

  • jaimex2 on 18/04/2016 - 12:24

    Do Nothing till they contact, if they do take it to court.

    http://workplaceinfo.com.au/resources/employment-topics-a-z/…

  • sandbank0825 on 18/04/2016 - 12:59
    +2

    move to mexico

  • glengood on 18/04/2016 - 15:58
    +6

    Is that you, Bronwyn Bishop?

  • geoffs87 on 18/04/2016 - 16:18

    Agree with comments above - call your ex-HR department… but who am i to say this, i forgot to declare a day of annual leave once… am i a bad person?

  • abc on 18/04/2016 - 16:21
    +2

    Are you Edward Norton from Fight Club?

  • CandyMan on 18/04/2016 - 21:10

    If its a govt organisation you get to pay it back in installments as it is their mistake ( usually over 8 weeks but negotiable if you cant afford it). Not sure if the same applies to private sector.

    As mentioned above: Are you sure you're not getting paid outstanding leave/ long service leave balance etc

    • illumination on 18/04/2016 - 21:29
      +2

      Sorry, forgot to respond to the question of leave.
      Yes I'm 95% sure. If anything, I'd owe them for that. I think I left on a negative leave balance LOL

  • [Deactivated] on 19/04/2016 - 04:07

    Hi, I briefly read through the stuff above.
    Personally I think if it's not your fault (intention), you have reasonable right to benefit from others mistakes.
    There is a small chance they will automatically pay you until for example June 30th 2016, and then the not uncommon f'ed up corporate system will just forget about it. Or they will contact you. And you may argue or repay.
    So unlike many others opinion, perhaps store the money, and in 7-10 years spend it.

    If I could get four of these deals, I could retire now.

    Everyone -> don't neg me, or I reserve the right to night visit you in your dreams.

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