Hi All,
I have a question of ethics here… I recently discovered a loophole on a big retailer website. Basically I am able to make orders without paying anything, I've confirmed it 100% works.
Unsure as how to act here… my obvious options are:
What are your thoughts on these sort of things? I'm torn.
PS: No, I won't disclose the name of the retailer or how it works.
hope they will reward you
I've tried this and it has never paid off.
I've tried this and it has never paid off.
Life rewards you for your good deeds instead :)
Life rewards you for your good deeds instead :)
No such thing as karma buddy, that's wishful thinking.
@cwongtech: that life if full of kindness and people and the world are more good than bad.
You do what you can to get the lost wallet/phone/whatever back to the owner. You help the little old lady struggling with her shopping bags down the stairs at the train station. You give up your seat for the pregnant lady. You answer someone's question in the forum to help them.
And likewise, when you're in a similar situation, a stranger will assist you. Not because of karma, but because society is predominantly made up of decent people like you.
@Thrift: Awesome mate! It's posts like yours that keep me reading the comments and hopefully get others thinking positively like you.
Maybe this is his reward for the good deeds he done..
I've tried this too, I got sent an invoice and was banned from the store that I discovered a loophole for and politely told them.
Never again.
Geez did you feel like ferociously defending yourself and explaining what happened?
That's brutal
good deeds always pay off. Whether telling a big retailer about a loophole is a good deed, I'm not so sure on that one. Telling a small family-run business,, I would definitely do. I'm not a big fan of corporations, shareholders, or making the rich richer.
Whether telling a big retailer about a loophole is a good deed, I'm not so sure on that one.
+1 Agree with you.
I'm all for helping out those clearly in need but big retailers aren't one.
@cwongtech: Stealing is stealing. Maybe if no one stole from big retailers then prices would be cheaper.
Whether telling a big retailer about a loophole is a good deed, I'm not so sure on that one.
So when it comes to theft you discriminate by inferring that it's OK if the entity is wealthy compared to you for some reason. Does that mean it's "OK'ish" if a homeless person that owned nothing at all robbed you because you are much wealthier than them?
Funny you say that. I've witness a situation whereby somebody was stealing meat in a Woolworths store. Plenty of people saw, but nobody reported it. On another occasion, at a small fruit shop, some guy was steeling Apples and was caught out by a passer-by. A whole group of people chased him.
I'd frankly report it and get it out of my mind, if I were in his/her shoes.
Don't believe in Karma or anything like that, but I wouldn't feel comfortable using the loophole.
So if it were me, I'd tell the company about it and hope that they reward me for it.
If they don't, meh, I wasn't going to use it anyways. At least they know about it and it won't bite me in the back in furture.
If they do, yay.
I tried doing this once, they gave me some vouchers that didn't work at compensation.
You did something good, expecting something in return. Awesome!
OP think about this:
What's the difference? ABSOLUTELY EFFIN' NOTHING
On another note: My take, this shit (OP's post) ain't real. Just my opinion.
IANAL but this is correct, stealing something through a loophole online though can be more serious because you can attract information system hacking related criminal charges as well as theft.
Not worth the risk, just report it to the company.
edit: have a feeling this post is a troll.
A colleague did this and they threatened to sue him for hacking.
Do this anonymously, that is if you didn't give them your address/info already.
Why even post this tease on a site that is dedicated to loopholes and hacks that yield saving?
You should use it for yourself first then let the Ozbargain community take advantage of it to the point where the company is forced to act!
Everybody wins - unless it is the local corner deli, you are being way to pious!
I think this site is dedicated to sharing bargains, particularly those open to Australian residents…
Ok, what else do you think?
@pointless comment:
so in conclusion… I don't think it is "dedicated to loopholes and hacks that yield saving" per se.
@spaij: yes, per se you are correct. However many of the best deals are obvious errors or oversights that involve code stacking, pricing mistakes etc.
@pointless comment:
Yes… "Group punishment" for the poor unfortunate chap who made the mistake?
If the business finds out & if they go on a witch hunt…
Sharing bargains, yes. Sharing "how to steal", not so much.
Remember you will be reporting it to the ADMINISTATOR of the website and management will most likely be clueless. He is not going to be happy about it because you've 'outted' him out, he's going to look bad reporting this to management. He thinks you've been 'playing around' with the website's source code/testing for vulnerabilities and infact you might be reported to police. This has happened in many famous cases, e.g. hacker breaks thru site, reports it to management, management reports to police. They report it to police for insurance purposes, for example if you do end up getting away with $20,000 worth of goods, 2-3 years later they do an internal audit and find this, their insurance company pays for the damage. You see, at the end of the day, big corporations never lose. :P
they will never reward you, take advantage of that shit
Used it see if you get stuff for free. or post it on ozbargain friday night they know about on monday.
Let the company know. Re the "I've confirmed it 100% works.", it's up to you whether you want to pay for it or not, and if you decide to keep it for free for your efforts, then let them know anonymously. But don't take advantage of it any further.
The bottom line is that we all want to and feel good about making a contribution to society and the first option is consistent with this, the third option is in the opposite direction and the middle option is closer to the third option.
Another way to look at it is to apply the golden rule. What if you owned the business and a customer was in your shoes? What would you like them to do?
The bottom line is that we all want to and feel good about making a contribution to society and the first option is consistent with this, the third option is in the opposite direction and the middle option is closer to the third option.
I want to and feel good about getting items at a bargain. I bet no one's felt bad about the opal card recharge loophole where if you have woolies offers (spend $100 save $10), it wasn't supposed to apply to opal card recharge or bus tickets but OzB members were partaking in that anyway.
Another way to look at it is to apply the golden rule. What if you owned the business and a customer was in your shoes? What would you like them to do?
Whose golden rule is that? If I owned the business I would want the customer to pay every cent back, that's my profit right there. Reward? Out of my pocket? I'm the owner, that cuts into my profits. Are you crazy? It's a cutthroat world. How would a reward help the situation? I would probably fire the programmer and hire a better one, but that's it.
Contributing towards big corporations = contributing to society?
If you are worried about ethics, you should contact them & pay for the things you already received.
If you want to do the right thing, contact them anonymously and tell them the issue.
If you are an opportunist, sell this information to people and make sure they cant trace it back to you.
The only reward you could hope for is they don't make you pay for the stuff you have already ordered.
Worst case is they hit you up and invoice you for the stuff already received.
Unless of course you hold them to ransom with the information, but that is probably crossing into extortion
or you can keep it to yourself and exploit it alone.
I am just adding another option to ^
Just to cover a few more areas:
If you're a nihilist, then leave everything as it is and continue huffin' that pipe.
If you're a digital anarchist, then share that information with everybody because information wants to be free.
If you're a dog then what are you doing on a computer, much less online shopping. Dogs can't use computers. Doggle Translate: wolf wolf computer wolf wolf.
If you're a Russian then you should know that since you're in Soviet Russia, it was actually the loophole that discovered you.
Hope that helps.
Dog says woof.
Cat says meow.
Bird goes tweet, and mouse goes squeak.
and what does the fox says?
Doggle Translate: wolf wolf computer wolf wolf.
Doggle Translate always gets it slightly wrong…
I wish i could "+" this more than once
The Cow goes SHAZOOO!
Much random
Tell us the story about the dog that cried wolf
Once upon a time, there lived a farmer and a dog on a small farm. Every once in a while, the dog would tell the farmer that the chickens were being slaughtered by a pack of wolves. And every time the farmer grabbed his shotgun and ran to where the chickens were kept, the dog would laugh, saying "just kidding". On one seemingly normal day, the dog once again cried wolf, except this time the farmer was having none of it. "But it's happening for real this time!" says the dog. "But you said that last time" said the farmer. As it turned out, the dog was actually being honest this time. All of the chickens were killed. The farmer froze in shock and remorse. As he turned to his dog, he switched to rage and madness. He shot his beloved dog of 10 years. As the red fog cleared from his eyes, he was once again filled with remorse and guilt as he realised what he did. He now had nothing. He lost his dog, his chickens, and in accordance, the income his chickens would have brought him and with that lost, he is unable to pay for the mortgage on his home, and with no home and no money, his wife and children left him. He quietly and solemnly placed the barrel of the shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. wow much blood so scare o_O ayy lmao
delimiter.com.au has an anonymous tips form if you would like the media to know.
Before deciding what to do check what the CEO earns and if you believe his/her pay and bonuses and stock options are ethical.
Also check if the company is overworking and/or underpaying its workers. Corporations are people my friend, and karma's a bitch.
How does one actually make judgement on an individual's ethical salary?
This in itself is unethical as you have no idea how they worked to get there or how much extra profit they generate the company
The same way we make judgements on the lower workers I suppose?
CEOs are like politicians. The only reason they get the job is because they are tall, over the 40 years old, male and came from a good school. Also you need to be an expert bullshitter. Have you actually ever heard the things they say?, I bet it's like listening to kids in a playground.
Sounds more like the qualifications for Abbott & Costell… sorry - Turnbull.
If the CEO isn't ethical to begin with then the losses sure aren't coming out of their paycheck.
Can you be a little more specific? Are we talking about a pizza code or access to anything in David Jones, etc?
For obvious reasons I'm trying to be vague, but lets say that in the wrong hands you could do damage in the thousands of dollars. We're not talking about $5 products here.
I propose, you let the site know at 1pm, and post the method at 1:01pm on ozbargains…
Agreed - If it is Dick Smith, let us have it
HN even more so!
Bet it's JB.
Even if you take advantage of it, I doubt they will go through with your order. They are allowed to cancel orders due to errors.
It does work, confirmed with a minor article.
So you have received the free item?
If you do it for more stuff then they will work it out eventually during stocktake or something and come looking for you, best option is to let them know that you have purchased an item and due to XYZ didn't get charged for it.
Looks like OP has found some sort of coupon code stacking of some sort. Is that legal? Is that ethical? What about all those OzBer's who ordered rolls of toilet paper from Woolworths when you could stack 5 codes at the same time? What would you do about all those toilet paper recipients?
From what I can tell, it looks like it's the same type of situation.
What would you do about all those toilet paper recipients?
Pretty sure they aren't going to ask for the toilet paper back :p
Like that ad - 'you wouldn't steal a car so don't steal a movie' vs 'i wouldn't steal a car but I would download one.'
@Euphemistic: I disagree, this could be seen as 'extreme couponing' (if that is indeed the case, OP didn't go into too much detail but is what others are guessing).
E.g.just googled extreme couponing but we have all heard stories (mostly from the US), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_Couponing.
Ethically it may be wrong, if you feel that way, but ultimately it is up to the business to agree to the order.
@Euphemistic: Deceptive? Me thinks not! Its an ecommerce system with a checkout process, I'm betting they have an email that says, "Thank you for purchasing this item." Its more like they've chanced upon a checkout assistant that's a pure anarchist and is processing sales without fees. No biggie,
If it is a big retailer as you mentioned, surely they have exceptions reporting which would pick these things. You could try but I am sure it is only a matter of time before they nab you…
The OP tested a fraudulent activity by buying a minor item. If they then Intend to exploit the loophole to purchase more and more expensive items that they obviously don't really want then that is stealing, or fraud.
If you purchased an item you wanted and didn't get charged for it, then it's more a case of seller beware and if a corporation, have your money in the bank in case they come chasing you for it, that is if you don't feel guilty and approach them to pay for it.
Different situations.
Obviously it would be wrong to exploit this loophole. To me it is no different to discovering someone's front door is open and just walking right on in and taking whatever you please.
Just because it is a retailer rather than an individual does not make it ok.
Not the same. Using your analogy it would be like walking up to the open door shouting may I have your TV, have them deliver it to you with a note stating you bought it.
Same same but different.
Tell them that you have discovered a loophole and offer to sell them the details for a special price. Maybe do this anonymously?
Doesn't work. They'd just close it up and you get left empty handed.
If you've discovered it, chances are, there are others who have as well.
Enjoy it while it lasts!
That sounds like extortion.
I would've thought it's more like a consulting fee for assisting the business to address a flaw.
It's not making any threat or using any force. It's about offering offering valuable information in exchange for some reward.
That's not how the law works. They claim hacking and extortion, you go to gaol.
Actually the law is pretty clear that extortion involves a threat to cause detriment:
CRIMINAL CODE 1899 - SECT 415
415 Extortion
(1) A person (the demander) who, without reasonable cause, makes a demand—…(b) with a threat to cause a detriment to any person other than >the demander;
commits a crime.
@inherentchoice: IANAL, but that's what Lawyers have advised me in the past. Sometimes it's better to just pretend you don't know anything.
Yeah, that's more reasonable. Without a threat it's really just offering a service. ("Nice profits. It would be a shame if something were to …happen to them")
@inherentchoice: That's the definition where you are located, in Queensland. The OP is in Melbourne. We don't know where the retailer's point of presence is or what laws govern their operation.
Report it to the company and hope they will reward you for allowing them to remedy the loophole?