I have a few bulging discs in my neck and lower back and they limit my activity greatly
I have been thinking about visiting a chiropractor however the specialist I saw a while back told me to avoid them at all costs as they can potentially make the problem worse. It seems when I ask people how they feel about chiropractors, 50% absolutely love them and highly recommend them and the remaining 50% say they should be avoided!!!
What are your thoughts and experiences?
Cheers
RoJeR, your experience reminds me back when I was working in ED as a resident medical officer, I met a patient in mid 30s with a past history of stroke due to manipulation by a Chiro. I guess your experience reaffirms to me the risks of chiropractic treatment is very real.
WTH?
Yeah must have been the same deal. I have to take aspirin for the rest of my life now to help alleviate stroke risk. I also have to avoid contact sports etc to avoid risk of aneurysm rupturing.
Deridas, I had the same experience on the stroke unit. 2 under 35's with vertebral artery dissections in 1 week. Both had Chiro work done the preceeding few days. Just not worth it.
My friend is recovering from something very similar with her carotid from seeing a chiro for extended treatment.
Vertebral artery (or carotid artery) dissection from chiropractic manipulation of the neck is well reported:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=chiropractic+dissec…
Yes, there is a link, but no way of knowing if it is the cause.
A plausible explanation is that the dissection was already occurring, which is why they sought chiropractic care in the first place. Ie for headache and or neck pain.
3 or 4 years ago my friend died at the dentist, but does s everyone blame the dentist?
Spontaneous dissection rates are similar amongst the general population. But it's always nice to have someone to blame though.
Hey RoJeR, How long did it take for the symptoms to occur after the neck adjustment?
It can be 4 weeks for symptoms to manifest after neck trauma.
Adjustments do not usually cause trauma though.
Thanks for reply JimmyBinny, some comments here started to freak me out a tad to be honest.
Where to start.
Went to a local reputable guy
He took an xray.Had to pay for 1st consult
Then he called me to discuss
2nd consult I paid for with no work done
Then on the 3rd one,he wanted to discuss the plan of action etc and the reasons etc
3 strike and I read him his fortune.
I told him what I thought of him and his dirty tactics and did not pay
I also took my xrays that I paid for
What a waste of $150 !
what do you mean by reputable guy??
Thanks everyone.
There are good ones and bad ones. Beware of any that say they can fix anything but spinal or joint problems. Love my chiropractor, he has improved neck and lower back problems enormously but I have been to some shockers. One was really rough and one who did nothing. If you want to see one ask around to find a good one. The thing is Chiropractors and Osteopaths both do manipulation, the trick is to get a good one.
Common sense suggests to me that if there is an issue with your skeleton, something caused that problem. Clicking bits back into place does nothing to address the cause. Most medicine aims at resolving the root cause, or alleviating symptoms in the meantime. Chiropractors seem to do neither of these, but apparently just attempt to force bits back where they belong.
I get the comments of good and bad chiropractors in that good succeed in their aim whereas bad do damage instead, but neither will be adjusting me.
The chiro i abandoned recommended a weekly treatment for the next 2+ years.. 44 bucks per treatment too!
I would go to a myotherapist. I had shoulder issues that she massaged out and told me how to fix and said i shouldn't need another appointment (she was right).
I understand the good chiropractor / bad chiropractor argument. But consider confirmation bias (which I realise could apply to my anecdotal description above however myotherapy is scientifically backed, chiro is not).
Even people who say they see a good chiro all keep going back again and again, sounds like a great business model but terrible medicine to me.
I suggested a myotherapist and got negged.
I'm glad someone else on here has experienced the benefits of myotherapy.
The reason people typically keep going back is that the body moves. So the spine moves. If you are, walking, sleeping, or doing something in your work that causes the problem, eventually your body will be out of whack again.
for example a massage makes you feel really relaxed right after, but that feeling isn't permanent is it?
Most people shouldn't need to keep going back, if there's a problem, you identify it and it's sorted. Just like your situation with the myotherapist.
Not trying to be an arse about this but my shoulder moves all the time and is still fixed. Every person I know who sees a "good chiro" sees them regularly and has done so for years so i question their ability to fix anything.
I didn't mean general joint movement. I meant when the vertebrae squash together or one of you hips drops lower than the other which then affects pressure on your spine.
If every person you know who sees a chiro has been doing so for years - with no break in between - than either, they are using it as a type of massage therapy (getting an adjustment when you have the flu speeds up the healing process by several days I have found), they are not - or are unable - to change whatever the underlying cause of the problem is, or they have a lousy chiro who isn't really helping them.
I've been seeing chiropractors since I was a kid, with over ten years between the first and the second group of visits. I had a problem which developed when I went through some growth spurts, after about two years it wasn't causing me problems anymore, so I didn't need to get adjustments.
Years later as an adult different problem, remedied in a few months.
Occasionally if I feel like I could use an adjustment I book one, but I don't need to go every month for the rest of my life. And most people shouldn't.
The wikipedia article covering the controversy around Chiropractic is fairly good if you want a long read on the subject. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_c…) It mentions the "straights" vs the "mixers" within the profession, which broadly refers to either those who stick with the somewhat whacky origins of chiropractic, or those who incorporate technologies and techniques from evidence-based medicine such as those used by a physiotherapist, but also other woo-based approaches such as applied kinesiology.
Another good article, and probably more to the point, is at Science Based Medicine. (https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/chiropractic/)
And remember that there's a name for alternative medicine that's proven by evidence to be effective.. it's called medicine. :)
Upvote this person. Sensible and wise advice. :)
I think some of the problems are that many chiropractors (mixers) employee legitimate physio or massage techniques and pass them off as chiropractic. It is dishonest and potentially illegal. If you are not trained to do certain therapies, you shouldn't be. And you certainly shouldn't try to bring credibility to junk treatments by using legitimate ones. If you want to do physio or massage do that. Don't muddy proper treatments with silly ones.
The really scary ones are the ones who "treat" children and even babies :-|.
My advice, OP, is to find a professional who specialises in back issues. Your GP should be able to refer you. If a GP suggests you see a chiropractor, never return to that Doctor. Ever. I dumped a GP because he suggested I get acupuncture to quit smoking. I did quit, through slowly cutting down over time and then setting a quit date.
It's not classed as alternative medicine. It's complementary medicine.
That will depend won't it on the patient and the practitioner? If the patient doesn't seek medical treatment because they believe they're getting treatment elsewhere, it's alternative.
Many chiropractors nowadays are "mixers" who might cover themselves by mentioning a doctor's visit, but they're still perpetuating the basis for Chiropractic:
"Chiropractic began in 1895 when its founder, Daniel David Palmer, claimed the cause of any and all disease could be removed by—and needing nothing more than—his hands. The name given to this new profession became its identity. As stated earlier, chiropractic means 'done by hand' …" (UoM)
Go to a gym, explain your problem in detail, and see if any well-experienced personal trainers can recommend any back strengthening exercises.
Like everything, take it with a grain of salt. There are plenty of quick courses that can "qualify" you as a PT with next to no real experience. That said, there are plenty of PT's who have a genuine passion for the human body and can comfortably explain at length why you should/shouldn't do certain things and what muscles they're working. Trust your instinct.
I am a fan of chiropractors. I was pushed off a platform about 8' high when I was only about 9 years old and had a lot of trouble with my back. I would see a Chiropractor once a month and it was the only thing that actually helped ease my pain. No other specialised could come close to the relief I felt. I have also been to an Osteopath in the past for different reasons and was happy enough with the service too.
Scams and quackery. At best it's just an expensive massage, at worse it could be very dangerous.
I have bad jaw problems (TMJ) and went to see countless speacialists, finally went to a chiro and they were the only ones that suggested to get an xray out of everyone.
Basically said i have arthritis in my joint and nothing could be done.
Still went a few times here and there and if my back was bad.
I have to say my chiro was good and i would happily refer anyone in melbourne, pm me if u want details.
I dont go there anymore though. Not because of anything bad, i just changed jobs and dont get sore backs anymore.
Also got acupuncture done to the jaw as well (kinda feels weird having needles stuck in ur face!) i dont think it did much, very relaxing when they stick the electrodes on though!!
Jaw pain is usually from grinding your teeth in your sleep from stress, like a stressful job. Which might explain why the pain went away when you changed jobs.
Had similar problem, saw the dentist, made me a night guard, problem solved.
yeh i had a night splint made up, cost me something like $300-$400. i dont think it really did much.
you are right on the money though, i had the worst boss at my old job, i think he caused me some serious damage mentally and phyisically in my jaw.
some days there was so much pain i couldnt open my mouth or chew a peice of bread…
ever since i left there i have had no problems with my jaw, maybe the odd biting a hard biscuit or extending too wide.
I found massage from the physio helps wonders with TMJ. The physio also mentioned he was sometimes working with people with TMJ in conjunction with a specialist in Melbourne. If you PM me I'm sure I can get the details for you (in case he's one you haven't seen before). I seem to recall it was a Russian specialist (I never saw him as I was happy enough with treatment from physio ).
The physio might help with alleviating the symptoms but not the actual cause. The night guard or splint is supposed to actually reduce the grinding.
I've got a splint as well ;)
Honestly i would rather go for surgery, i understand that recovery is hell and can take a very long time but i just want my jaw to work normally but my specialst actually said that my jaw is not severe enough to go for surgery, explaining that there have been people that 24/7 cannot open their mouth more than a few milimeters and have extreme pain.
As much as it is annoying not being able to chew steak these days most of the time my jaw is ok its more so for a better quality of life i guess.
Went to 2 different Chiros, both said they could straighten me back. Both failed therefore to me they're scams.
Saw a chiro who kept adjusting me for about 6-8 sessions, however the benefits didn't last week to week. I actually think doing something like yoga will help you more in the long term since you are stretching so much of your body that the things that are pulling, and tense, will eventually stop doing that, and help with things like your back ache.
Personally know someone who suffered from a vertebral artery dissection after visiting their chiropractor.
chiropractors - I hate how they call themselves "Doctor". Please, a 3 year degree and they believe they should be entitled to the title of Doctor!!! it's repugnant. they are glorified masseuses with alot quackery thrown in .
read this page on Chiropractors on Quackwatch -one of my favourite websites.
shonksters.
If I ever met a chiropractor who was introduced to me as "Doctor.." I would look him or her in the eye and say "you're not a Doctor"
Actually my chiro is a medical doctor that then further trained as a chiropractor.
Fact check please. To be a doctor of chiropractic it is a 5 or 6 year undergrad with a masters program. Do you give those with a doctorate of music the same immature disrespect?
This is a good link to the comparative education some chiropractors receive: https://www.prohealthsys.com/students/professional-compariso…
Quack watch is unscientific. I would be concerned about basing my views based on their sensationalist propaganda.
There's nothing wrong with a good massage either. Some masseauses are highly trained and exceptionally skilled in anatomy and musculoskeletal health.
admittedly I was wrong in the 3 year degree. however completing a masters shouldn't ensure a Dr., that's why people do a doctorate.
I'm half way through 4th year psych. (thesis to complete) and then I do 2 years of supervision before I can call myself a psychologist - 4 years of study + 2 years of supervision. 6 years.
and I couldn't call myself a Dr. I could if I did a masters and then a doctorate. which would be a minimum of 7 years of study (that doesn't require prac).
your link of comparative education is american. it's different there.
Quackwatch, to an extent, may be unscientific but it raises more questions and produces a health dose of skepticism. i think that is better to question the world around us than ignorantly accepting what is presented to us.
I've got no problems with a good massage. massage is good. it relaxes the body and it relaxes the mind. I agree, some masseauses are highly trained and highly skilled. just like some counselors are highly trained and highly skilled - yet I wouldn't call a counselor a Doctor. I'd acknowledge their competence upon evidence of their competence.
Try lots of walking, at least 10,000 steps per day. That's what helps me.
There's a reason why people call them chiroquacktors. I would never let one of them perform an adjustment on me, I would go to an accredited physiotherapist at a Hospital or University. One wrong move and you could be maimed for life.
I have a herniated disc. And my chiropractor help me a lot. Although I to say most backpains will heal by itself you just need to keep active. But chairopators help in some cases by ease the pain and in my case it helps. It's not a solution but when you have a very severe pain and chiropractic helps you can't call it a scam. But it is proven that other than backpain chiropractic can't help in anyway. So I recommend go there if you have some kind of backpain that can response to chiropractic but always try to find a good one this iz not science it ia all base on experience find someone who people have good experience with.
Got a collapsed lung after one cracked my back. The idiot did it during inspiration. Spent a whole 3 months in hospital.
I was the idiot for not knowing they're not medically certified and going to one in the first place. The chiro even had the gall to blame it on me saying I must have traumatised myself through sport or falling down.
Issue was because I presented the next day to hospital after a night of insidious shortness of breath and pain there was no direct linking events.
My surgeon told me chiro related traumas were quite common just that not many can prove it straight away.
Please don't be like the dumbass me who believed chiros could actually help. You feel better because they release your tendons just like cracking your fingers. But if you think that resolves your problems you're dreaming. For Op it could even add to further destabilisation in time.
I've found deep tissue massage (physio or even at the mall) + running/swimming (using full range not restrictive) + yoga/stretching maneuvers and heat packs help the most for me.
You need to see maybe a physiotherapist just to improve your posture and reduce your pain .
I think its all a scam but I had neck pain so I had to do something, a good physiotherapist should know why you have the pain and teach you how to change.
have you done CT scan or MRI? bulging disc is a serious issue, you should consult a neurosurgeon or neurologist. Chiropractic or physiotheraphy could make it worse.
Not necessary to have a CT or MRI unless there are neurological signs or sudden increases in pain. As a physio, we are trained to thoroughly assess backs (even more so than GP's - which is why we treat backs and they don't), and it is also our duty to highlight to the GP if we are concerned and feel that more imaging needs to be done. But the current research shows that early imaging of backs if often unnecessary and often leads to increased anxiety if either the scans show nothing or if they show something like a 'bulging disc' as patients can often catastrophize and head towards the ever trustworthy 'Dr Google'. From are physical assessment (without a scan ) we are often able to predict whether the pain is due to disc, muscles, other joints.
I'm a physio so that automatically means I am bias! However as with all professions - there are good chiros and bad chiros.
I think generally the bad chiros are those that:
- only do manipulations ("cracking the joints")
- don't give any exercises
- advise you to come back every 6 weeks for 'readjustments' whether or not you need them
- do 'scaremongering' and make you believe that if you don't come back to them regularly your spine with 'sublux'
This is a massive generalisation that a lot of people have about chiros - and yes it is unfortunately a common story we hear about them
BUT there are excellent chiros out there, those that encourage self management and are steering away from the 'spinal subluxation' model and are following more evidence-based practice. Its only been in recent years that chiros, physios and osteos are covered under the same governing body 'AHPRA' which means that each of these professions are under much more scrutiny which I think is fantastic as it means that we all have to work towards a certain standard and are all accountable.
And just to clarify - physios do treat backs too! We also do manipulations. The current evidence for spinal manipulations tells us that they are good for short-term relief and therefore should only be used as an adjunct to treatment NOT as the main form of treatment.
I have two bulging discs and am avoiding surgery. I've been through many physiotherapists and they were helpless.
I was recommended to a spine specialist (Dr. Michael Ryan) who does both physio and chiro. Since then I've felt amazing!!!
Do yourself a favour and seek him out!!! Very friendly bloke as well
:) good luck with your back. It can get quite stressful and scary at times, just take it slowly and go one step at a time!
If you go to a GP with a slip disc or disc bulge, what can they do for you?
Take a thorough history and perform an examination to diagnose the issue and rule out any neurological injury associated with the herniated disc.
Order appropriate investigations such as imaging, balancing exposure to radiation against utility of the imaging.
Provide appropriate non-pharmacological and pharmacological management, particularly during the acute period.
Refer to scientifically based physiotherapy for evidence based treatment.
Refer to a specialist orthopaedic surgeon or neurologist if required.
Spot on brownhux!
Its quite rare that the GP will perform any treatment other than prescribe some temporary analgesics then refer to physio
Please read my reply fully.
The vast majority of presentations of back pain are muscular strain something that requires nothing but time, effective exercise programs and appropriate temporary analgaesia pharmacological and non-pharmacological.
If people want to believe in quackery that's fine they disadvantage themselves by wasting both money and time. But people with real reasoning ability will make themselves aware of real evidence based medicine and choose appropriately.
I had neck pains for a while a few years ago, and I decided to go see a physio. He gave me the usual exercises to do, but didn't help. They cost me $70 per 20/min session, and everything they told me, I was able to google myself. It didn't work, so i decided to see a chiro.
Similar costs, but after a couple sessions, and some adjustments, my neck felt so much better. It's been a few years now, and I haven't had any issues.
I understand chiro may not be for everyone, but they aren't all bad. I for one, highly recommend chiro.
Physio on the other hand, is a total waste of money.
As a physiotherapist who has worked in the public health system - all the patients I have seen have seen me for FREE under medicare. Thats roughly 50-60 patients per week that I see, all for a minimum of 30 minutes. And not to toot my own horn, but many of them have improved with physio alone and not required further surgery/injections etc.
So whilst your experience with the private physio was crap - don't rule out the whole profession entirely. I totally agree that there are a LOT of dodgy physios out there especially in the private practice setting, but given that we are employed in most hospitals and are the first point of referral for any patients who come to GP's with musculoskeltelal issues, I think saying physios are a 'total waste of money' is both offensive to our profession and unfounded.
Quack Quack.
"the specialist I saw a while back told me to avoid them at all costs as they can potentially make the problem worse"… I'd trust the specialist.
My wife made me sit through an information night at a local Chiropractor.
He claimed virtually all* illnesses could be repaired via regular visits! lol
I had a chiro did that to me. 3 session and I never goes back. my back was friggin worse off before he started the treatment.
This was my first Chiro experience - wasn't nice at all.
The other day I over did it lifting too much. Back was in a heap of pain. Went to my chiro, he loosened the area and I had instant relief from the pain.
Each to their own I guess…
I'm really glad that your back pain improved, truly I am.
But when it comes to medical care I don't agree with "each to their own" attitudes. Medical treatment has to be based on a scientific evidence base showing that it is efficacious. Anecdotal evidence really harms medicine and by extension the patients.
Going to a chiropractor instead of a professional is like getting herbal medicine for cancer and believing it will help you, or going to a faith healer to get you out of your wheelchair. It only helps those with strong susceptible to Placebo effect and only helps temporarily. Get it checked out from a professional.
Actually I exaggerated a little bit. Chiro is definitely better than those two examples. Chiro's are hit and miss. If it's a little problem that can be fixed with a little massage or movement then Chiro can be a help, but if it's a big problem and a persisting one, go to a professional.
Edit: Just noticed the problem is in neck and back, definitely very sensitive areas, don't even consider a chiro for this.
You should consider a Chiro for this. Chiropractors recieve more training in diagnosing and treating back and neck pain than a gp. Chiro will refer you to a gp if necessary. Chiros deal with this every day. GP will most likely prescribe something and let it run its natural course. Chiro will help establish a plan to prevent recurrence too.
I have been to physiotherapy many times in recent 2 years. They are good but the treatment time is very short - just about 15 mins (cost $62). My friends introduced me to a chiro at 456 Middleborough Rd Blackburn North with Dr Sherlane. I found her very good. She got a Doctor title. She looked after me the whole body - from neck, shoulder, back, knee. The fee is just $65. A few dollars expensive than physio (Box Hill). Treatment time is around 20 mins. The treatment is similar to physio.After treatment, there machines for treatment for back,foot…..about 20-30 mins But the first visit is expensive $125. But if you need X-ray, better done it first before going there as they will charge you Doctor fee around $40.
There's nothing stopping me from calling myself a Dr if I choose to do so.
She got a Doctor title.
Heh.
Now in NSW every registered chiropractor can use the Dr title but they must specify they are not registered medical practitioners nor do they hold a PhD if they don't. Hence if the Dr title is used in advertising they must specify which health profession it is for. e.g. Dr John Smith (Chiropractor).
http://www.chiropracticboard.gov.au/Codes-guidelines/FAQ/Con…
The Chiropractors Board of Australia will shortly amend the Register of Practitioners so every registered chiropractor in NSW will be displayed on the Register with the title 'Dr'.
Under the Health Practitioner Regulation National Law Act 2009 as adopted in participating jurisdictions (the National Law), an appropriately qualified practitioner can use the title 'Dr'.
However, the practitioner must make it clear to the public what is their area of expertise and qualification. The National Law also prevents a practitioner from 'holding themselves out' as having qualifications or expertise they do not have.
The previous law in New South Wales prevented chiropractors using the title 'Dr'. The former NSW Chiropractor‟s Registration Board provided the information about NSW practitioners to the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency (AHPRA) in a form that reflected this law. As a result, practitioners in NSW were not displayed on the National Register with the title 'Dr' from 1 July 2010.
With that said, I'm not against chiros as some people may see benefits from their treatment
The doctor title doesn't really mean much. It is a "doctoral" batchelor degree. I always lol at it from a physiotherapy perspective. I lol at my cousin who is a chiropractor.
I find that the title "doctor" is used pretty loosely here.
My Chiro Doctor said she studied 5 years in Australia to get the doctor degree.
I have been to a chiropractor for many, many years and find it very beneficial. I had a horseriding accident when I was 15 and found that chiropractic treatment was the only thing that helped. It's true that some chiropractors are almost scam artists (as in other industries too) but I think common sense has to come in to play here. Only go to someone that has been recommended to you and if they start you on a treatment plan to come back every day and become pushy- walk away. I have found some very reputable chiros over the years who their patients swear by and who are in the industry for the right reasons. Of course, every one is different and therefore no one practice will suit all.
IMO, most chiropractors are opportunistic quacks. I see an upsetting number of people here saying things like 'but in my case it worked' (anecdotal evidence can be used to support virtually any position), 'my chiro has a doctor title' or 'mine studied for X years!' which mean exactly squat. There are private colleges for homoeopathy these days, and any PhD candidate has a doctorate too. These things are just the trappings of qualification.
This country already panders to charlatans more than I'd like, by permitting them to request imaging like X-rays (something very uncommon in developed countries), despite little or no radiographic training and oppositional teachings to mainstream science. Then there's the matter of chiropractic oversight which is basically non-existent in this country. The community is self-policing and not beholden to external regulators, so horror stories like that chiropractor breaking a baby's neck were hidden from public knowledge by peers.
ohhh the irony…
If you research the broken baby neck story you'll see that it was anti-chiro bullshit. The child had a congenital abnormally. The Chiro did not even adjust the baby. There should have been retractions printed.
Check your facts please.
My colleague is a Radiographer and she hates chiro's for making unnecessary requests of full spinal scans which cause too much exposure to x-rays - especially in adolescents. It is a common practice for a chiro to do a full spinal scan to point out "abnormal" vertebrae positioning. chronic conditions do not always correlate with imaging results.
I totally agree - both GP's and chiros over-refer for unnecessary scans which put the health system under quite a lot of strain. Often when some has a back xray there will be signs of degeneration which is age-related and NORMAL but unfortunately based on these scans patients are told that their spine looks horrible which leads to the patients being more anxious which in turns increases their pain!
A lot of people over age of 25 have changes or deterioration to their scans but they do usually correlate to the presenting symptoms. Unfortunately, the chiropractors use the scans to "demonstrate" a misaligned back which needs to be put back into place. XD, apparently as a physio, I don't like chiros.
I went quite a few times for treatment and found it to be beneficial. I'd take more notice of scientists if they weren't paid off by big pharma. Added to which science is ever changing and requires an open mind.
So if Cosmo Kramer cracked your neck, you'd go back for seconds? Yes… the entire scientific, medical and allied health professions in every country on the planet are in the pocket of 'big pharma.' I guess they've been fabricating all those results for decades too? Even those studies sponsored by independent bodies? Newsflash: big pharmaceutical companies wish they were as influential as you think.
Also, you're falsely conflating science's adaptability with the acceptance of pseudo-science. Evidence-based medicine does not mean 'anything goes,' but rather existing knowledge can be augmented and built upon assuming new developments pass the rigours of scientific testing; systematic reviews consistently debunk the efficacy of chiropractic adjustment.
At their worst, chiropractors are opportunistic quacks; only unlike crystal therapists and faith healers, they're smart enough to operate under the veneer of scientific legitimacy, down to using real tools like radiographs as props to confuse clients into thinking they're actual medical professionals.
The chiropractor I saw helped me and I was merely relaying my personal experience to the community. It's up to each individual to decide what's right for them.
Not every scientist is paid off by big pharma, the fact is some are and this creates mistrust.
I strongly believe in natural methods and again it's up to the individual to decide what right for them.
You sound a little aggravated so here's a a big hug for you bud:)
I'm not denying your positive experience with a chiropractor. However, the practice is pseudo-scientific and any benefit should be treated as coincidental, just like homeopathy. What grinds my gears, is laymen who apply their doubt selectively. You don't trust scientists because you assume they're paid off by big pharma, yet your chiropractor passes the sniff test? If you're going to be a skeptic, then at least be a fair one.
As someone who knows first-hand, the exacting standards to which doctors and scientists work for your benefit, seeing it casually dismissed with conspiracy theories, and people putting misinformation on the same footing as information… it's insulting to the intellect.
@Strand0410: I have no limitations so perhaps you are correct and perhaps your not.
If you are insulted then perhaps you should take my kind offer of a hug.
@Strand0410: I know that 'some' scientists are paid off by big pharma - fact. Please don't spin my words around to suit a certain agenda. It undermines the argument you present.
'I'd take more notice of scientists if they weren't paid off by big pharma.'
The brush you're using here couldn't be more broad. So now you clarify that only 'some' scientists are paid off by big pharma; okay, I can accept that. However, you use this unknown (and likely negligible) percentage of crooked scientists to justify your mistrust of evidence-based medicine… and yet embrace chiropractors; whose entire foundation is based upon discredited pseudoscience. I'm pretty sure it's your argument which is being undermined by logical fallacies here. Call it a hunch.
@Strand0410: I'm glad you understand and accept my clarification.Trying to work out the exact percentage of crooked scientists would involve trillions of variables.
Iv'e been very sick for 9 months and seen 23 doctors so far so I tend to keep an open mind and feel happy to do so.
@Strand0410: Perhaps you would care to direct me to a doctor that has good credentials? Any help would be appreciated as I'm at the end of my tether.
@bargainslut: I understand the appeal of believing the cure for your problem is just under your nose this whole time, but it's not always that simple; worse, these people know it, that's how they prey on the vulnerable. My mother recently got into Chinese medicine for those same reasons, even though the pathways for those 'medicines' are completely bogus and they're often harvested from protected animals. I can't offer any more advice other than don't give these charlatans the satisfaction of payment; keep searching, get referrals, see specialists, etc. Australia has one of the most robust healthcare systems in the world, take advantage of it.
@Strand0410: I'll take these points on board.
I don't doubt after my short time in Australia that the healthcare system is top notch. Like I said in the previous post 23 doctors have been unable to diagnose my condition. Any pointers would be much appreciated.
My mother recently got into Chinese medicine for those same reasons
Chinese (herbal) Medicine is a farce, it's a load of dog shit with no grounds except the same drivel:
"The chinese been doing it for centuries, if it was wrong they would have died"
Eating tiger balls, shark fin, goat tongue, gecko ass, or chicken penis; ground, mashed or pickled will not cause an entire 1+_billion population of people to die. More often than not, is a placebo effect. With a calmer mindset, the body can usually overcome most minor to medium ailments.
As for Chinese Medicine like acupuncture, needling and cupping. There's also no scientific proof these work.
needling just loosens the muscle thus allowing more blood which enriches the muscle and removes the cramp….NEWSFLASH: TRY STRETCHING.
Sorry Strand, this is not directed at you..
I note your sarcasm.
Have you considered that (sadly) your 23 past doctors may not have been able to diagnose your condition due to them simply not knowing what the problem is? That maybe the scientific and medical community have encountered a problem they simply can't solve? And they've tried lots of things, but your situation simply continues to defy their best efforts?
Science is never afraid to say: "I don't know." Scientific medicine never claims to be able to cure/fix/etc with total and complete certainty. Science always acknowledges risk and possibility of failure.
It's only quacks and pseudo-science adherents who claim to be able to cure anything regardless, who make sweeping grandiose statements and claims about their particular modality.
It is unfortunate you have not had your condition cured or resolved by the scientific medical community. I, for one, would still press on with doctor #24 ahead of a chanting fish slapper, or Filipino faith healer. Or a chiropractor.
@Roman Sandstorm: Sarcasm? I'm bloody ill and I was being genuine. How dare you assume otherwise. I expect an apology from you.
it depends on the swelling, usually an ice-pak helps help, elevation and reduce pressure
e.g foot swelling, try and not walk on it much, apply icepak, elevate and reduce salt in take so that you don't have excessive water retention
The post I was responding to is no longer visible. This post of yours was along the lines of (from memory) 'how good the Australian medical system was'… and then you went on to state that 23 doctors hadn't been able to fix you. This seemed fairly (and reasonably) to be sarcastic to me.
And if you read my post beyond that first line you'll see I am not denigrating you, nor am I unsympathetic.
I certainly put my view that I don't feel 'alternate' therapies would be the way to go. And I encourage you to continue on with doctor #24.
I appreciate you are not well, and perhaps somewhat frustrated with lack of progress in treating your condition. In your circumstances I guess I would possibly be quite sensitive and irascible if I felt slighted through a misunderstanding with some unknown poster on a forum.
NEVER EVER GET A NECK ADJUSTMENT!!
I was diagnosed with an aneurysm on my carotid artery after having some strange symptoms. (No control over the left half of my tongue, a headache that lasted over a month.) The neurosurgeon I saw, who is well respected in the field, told me that the aneurysm was most likely caused by a micro tear in the artery from a chiropractic neck adjustment.
Additionally, I was seeing a chiropractor (with a PhD) for many months. Each time I went my back felt better but it soon went "out" again. This has been a common comment I have heard of chiropractic treatments, that is, any positive effects do not last. I have found that I can do the same job as the chiro with a good solid foam roller and a quick 30 second roll on the floor.