I have a few bulging discs in my neck and lower back and they limit my activity greatly
I have been thinking about visiting a chiropractor however the specialist I saw a while back told me to avoid them at all costs as they can potentially make the problem worse. It seems when I ask people how they feel about chiropractors, 50% absolutely love them and highly recommend them and the remaining 50% say they should be avoided!!!
What are your thoughts and experiences?
Cheers
There is plenty of good evidence for spinal manipulation. It is widely researched.
Systematic reviews do not constantly debunk the efficacy - that is simply not true. There is evidence to say it is recommended for lower back pain and neck pain, and very little risk associated with it.
I'm not sure where you got your information from?
Read the first page of this thread where you asked for citations and I provided them. You talk big about 'evidence based practice' but provide none; this speaks volumes. I highly doubt you're good for anything other than cherry-picking information either, since virtually every medical journal either dismisses the purported benefits of chiropractic, or discredits them fully.
Did you learn the same things we learn during your study? Do you know how to conduct a literature review? If you did, I highly doubt you'd continue defending chiros since the overwhelming body of knowledge is stacked against your profession.
Most current research shows the spinal manipulation (whether it'd be chiro, physio or osteo) can definitely have SHORT term benefits but no long term effect has been found. If you have research on the long-term effect of manips I would be very interested to have a read
I'd give it a crack
Cracking post superduper.
This information may not apply to your specific situation, but in general:
Bulging discs DOES NOT EQUAL back pain
Most people with bulging discs have no back pain.
Many people with back pain have no bulging discs at the site of the pain.
As a result, doing a CT scan on most people with back pain has been shown to make back pain WORSE!
Because the people not only have pain, they also now know they have a semi-incurable 'cause' to have back pain for the rest of their life!
Disturbingly, half the 'bulges' on a CT scan of the back don't even exist in real-life.
(MRI is more accurate, in this regard, but also shows more 'problems' which might not be related to the back pain experienced by the patient).
Remember that XRs, CTs and MRIs can, with regard to your back, only show bone/joint problems, but much of the pain is probably coming from strained muscles, sensitised nerves, inflamed ligaments, microscopic strains to minor joints etc., which imaging modalities do not show.
So, I agree with a previous poster, that an assessment at a multi-disciplinary pain clinic (despite the very long waiting list, sometimes) could help with assessment of these kinds of issues if the back pain is sufficiently severe to limit your activity.
Totally agree! I hope everyone reads your comment. So many patients come in to me asking if they need a scan and I have to explain that having a scan will not often change my treatment of them. As we are often treating the patients symptoms NOT their structures. As one person with a 'disc' issue will present completely different to another person with the same 'disc' problem.
I work in intensive care and in the last 5 years I have seen 3 cases of stroke in young people related to chiropractice.
I will never forget the woman with a young baby who was left completely paralysed down one side requiring full time nursing care. it's not something I would ever consider for myself but that's just the mainstream medical view I suppose.
I will never forget the woman with a young baby who was left completely paralysed down one side
You gotta be kidding me, are you serious? did they sue them?
I wish I was kidding
I actually have 1 free visit to a Chiro, im not even going to use that given the information above.
The last time they cracked me neck I felt like I died as it was so swift, I couldn't imagine it was healthy for the body
No offence to anybody, but when a chiropractor asks you: "Are you free on Thursdays", it could well mean for the rest of your life… most people would be a bit surprised at the origins of chiropractic, but it's worth looking up before you get an "adjustment".
Like doctors, chiros vary greatly from to another. My wife has been going for over a decade, first very frequently and then about once a month and her general wellbeing is noticibly better for it.
Since moving to Melbourne, the chiro she sees here has not been as effective but still seems to help.
Personally I am a sceptic of all medicine and steer clear of it all unless it's for emergency intervention but if it works for you, you don't need the world to agree with you.
i would recommend you call a few of them up, ask them about what they do and if it makes sense to you, give it a try. Do some research before so if you have specific concerns, you can make sure to avoid those that make you uncomfortable.
avoid. i'd rather try acupuncture
Treating mechanical pain requires a wholistic approach. If your joint is "out" then other structures are compromised too - ligaments over stretched - muscles overworked etc. You rarely ever have an injury that only affects one structure - as most chiros will lead you to believe your problem is only coming from the spine.
I prefer a good physio who addresses your problem with a wholistic approach - not just treating the "out of place" joint which will only give a temporary fix (if anything)
My story,
I've never been to a Chiro of Physio in my life. At the ripe age of 32, I did my back at the gym.
I asked friends and colleagues as to whether I should visit Chiro or Physio
Went to Chiro
1st visit - $65 XRAY and chit chat
2nd visit - something called an adjustment ($65) - I thought I felt better
3rd visit - another adjustment (more of my bank balance)
quit
Went to Dr and told him the 411, he recommended a physio.
After going to both, all the Chiro does is crack your back.
Physio isn't too much better, he just ran his closed fist up and down my back for 15mins then recommended some stretches that I found on the net for people with back pain or herniated discs. Still better than a Chiro IMO
A lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean that there is no benefit to it. I am not a chiropractor, but there is some evidence to suggest that manual therapies, including manipulations of vertebrae and spine can lead to improvement in symptomatic vertebrae. That being said, the underlying reasons behind why you get your pain is important, as a few "adjustments" from a chiro may not be treating the underlying cause, or it may not be the correct mode of treatment in the first place.
In regards to xlimit's statement of:
Please don't be like the dumbass me who believed chiros could actually help. You feel better because they release your tendons just like cracking your fingers. But if you think that resolves your problems you're dreaming. For Op it could even add to further destabilisation in time,
it isn't a release of tendons when they "crack" you. It's a release of gas which builds up between the joint spaces. They don't crack you to release the gas though, it's to release stiff articular joints between adjacent vertebrae.
To OP, if I were you, I wouldn't see a chiro for your problem. With disc bulging, putting your spine (if it be neck, thoracic spine or lumbar spine), at end of range and 'cracking' it, wouldn't help; if anything, it might make it worse by putting more pressure on the already bulging disc. I'd probably go see a physio to get some advice regarding improving your posture and strengthening exercises to protect the discs. They can and should also provide some sort treatment to manage your current pain symptoms also.
For those interested this is a good source of info from an insiders perspective. Seems quite honest http://drtanase.com/2010/08/21/can-chiropractors-adjust-too-…
G'day OP, I suffered a vertebral artery dissection after visiting a chiropractor for an unrelated shoulder issue & having neck manipulation. No doubt plenty of people find relief from visiting chiros, but i wish I'd read more before letting one touch my neck. There's plenty of research.
My view is that it's a scam designed to temporarily relocate pain or produce a temporary placebo effect so that, along with much persuasion, the patient keeps coming back to them for weekly or monthly "adjustments" once the effect wears off.
If you have a back problem, you can cure it with Deadlift. You gotta lift weight to live a full life, bro! Don't be like these weak fools whose only exercise is getting up from their chair and walking up to the fridge just to fill up their bodies with sugar, salt, fat and alcohol.
Go and see a health professional such as a Physiotherapist.
I will share with you my experience of Chiro's. I have had 2 good ones and a bad one. I am not a fan of huge adjustments of my spine and over time I have minimised my back issues/pain.
Good Chiro's (Only left one as I moved out of the area and was just to far to travel)
Both spoke to me to find out what was going on to cause my pain, both sent me off X-Rays of my spine. Over time I have made some changes to my routine as directed by both Chiro's. Both have advised that I need to stretch more as most of my pain is caused by tight hamstrings which impacts my lower back.
Bad Chiro: (First Ever Chiro that I visited)
No questions just strait into the cracking of my back, felt ok but was in more pain after, I went to a physio/massage therapist and got better.
I would say that you should find someone that you trust and speak to them. but also don't write off a whole profession just cause of one bad experience. if you are not sure then maybe start with an "Activator" practitioner as that is a softer approach.
Ive also heard good things about osteopaths. Remember Alannah Myles pop star from the late 80's? (Black Velvet)…I heard she was put into a wheelchair from chiropractic over-treatment. My husband swears by his slant board/ invertor for back pain relief.
personally i really like Chiro. every time when I have an adjustment my whole body feels really really amazing—burden free almost.
However the downside is the chiro tells me I have to do it periodically to maintain the right alignment and if I dont..it comes back to sq one.
So its good if you have to money to support it—much like massage
OK. I've not read every single comments (tried but it's..well too much :/)
I had my fair share of good and Bad Chiro. And OP, I had a bulged disc in my L4/L5 and friggin L5/S1. I was in pain and every time I almost call ambos for it - i am serious. To those that have no idea what damage a bulding disc can do to you - for the purpose of this thread, painkillers are useless because they are nerve pain. You can tell straightaway and the numbing in the thigh down is obvious.
Heard some good news about some chiro about 50+ kms from my home, and some sort of lecturer. Went there, it's hit and miss. Some days felt better some days felt no improvement. eventually it got worst and gone to neurosurgeon - given emergency surgery to remove the disc else it'll damage the nerve. Best decision ever but I am not allowed heavy lifting. word of warning from surgeon - the disc is now thinner so in my older years I'm expected to get back pain.
That was 2011
Move on 2015, I had re-curring pain again and the numbing feeling down my leg is becoming obvious. Tried Thai massage, physio, chiro around my home - no avail. One day I was browsing my FB and saw this youtube video about Gonstead Chiro. More research seems very +ve. went to the website and did a search for local chiro that practice Gonstead and it shows me lists with their attainment. I chose a chiro with "Fellow" as opposed to beginner.
Went there, did x-ray. ran some checks on my and tell me where my problem is. Did 2 weeks bi-weekly adjustment, 3 weeks of weekly adjustment and now down to forthnightly adjustment. I never had a single episode of backpain and numbing effect is gone. Normal days, I'd have an episode at lease once a week.during this time, I have not change my lifestyle.
So I had my share of dodgy practitioner to really good one. OP it's your call.
A while back I had a strain in my neck and was in massive pain. GP didn't do anything, but saw a chiro and his treatments helped solve the issue. It was down to postural issues and the way I walk. I've had numerous adjustments over a period of time, and was given regular exercises to do at home and advice on what to include in a gym program to build strength.
I'm sure the treatments have helped, and I feel my chiro is good, but it's well over a year now and I'm wondering how much longer I have to have adjustments for. My chiro recommends I continue with them as apparently issues can gradually reoccur, and if you resume treatment again at a later stage due to this, it won't be as effective as the first time.
but it's well over a year now and I'm wondering how much longer I have to have adjustments for. My chiro recommends I continue with them as apparently issues can gradually reoccur, and if you resume treatment again at a later stage due to this, it won't be as effective as the first time.
So… you are OK now. But on the off chance that you may at some stage in the future not be OK, your chiropractor recommends continual treatment forever???
This is one of the distinguishing characteristics between pseudo-science quackery and real medicine. To me this is simply prophylactic gouging. The continual need for 'adjustments'. The threat and fear of "it'll be worse next time if you don't continue this current treatment". I feel this is misleading and bullying exploitative behaviour.
I have also seen brochures for 'chiropractic vaccination', wherein parents are encouraged to eschew real medicine and subject their infant offspring to (possibly years) of continual 'treatment' to 'protect' from nasty diseases. Yeah, this is a responsible so-called profession.
Does going to the dentist once, ensure your teeth are clean for ever?
Many people who need to go 'forever' actually have a degenerative disease that means they'll always have to go back.
I'm one of those people.. my Chiro's always telling me to keep up with the exercises… the more often I do the exercies the less often I see my Chiro
Sure, why not? Just make sure you get a happy ending afterwards.
I have had quite a lot of expience with back/nerve pain " 32 years " ,i injured my back 32 years ago " the most incredible stabbing pains in my lower back " in a motorcycle accident .
Saw my Gp who swiftly put me on morphine suspended in asprin " taken in 10ml dosage as needed " well that solved the pain but unfortunately i walked like an old man in his 80's , well this went on for 3 months and while the pain was managed i still couldnt walk properly.
A friend suggested a chiropractor so i gave it a try " his adjustments were done on a machine/bed with set movement etc at the end of my session i walked normal and my pain eased over the next 4 days where i didnt need my medication any more , well i was over the moon but continued to see the chiropractor every 6-12 months and while i had lots of back problems over the years the chiropractor work till about 9 years ago " the adjustments wouldnt take ".
After getting sent to physio " time and time again " which has never worked for me but each doctor always sent me too , until the last time where my back pain returned which i can only describe as catastrophic " i was in the fetal position with the most incredible pain ive ever felt " like an icepick stabbing me over and over again " since that day ive been heavily medicated and extremely restrictive lifestyle" over 500 tablets a month " and guess what the doctors want me to do …… yep physio ….
If you're a real cheapskate, just look up some light back exercises, and VERY SLOWLY, try them. They should feel good. Stop at any pain.
It's quack medicine based on unsubstantiated claims.
Go see your GP and/or physio for real treatment options.
Actually physio and Chiro cross over a lot.
The best physio's I've had, had included Chiro techniques.
I've had good experience going to a chiro when my neck was out. ie; stiff, sore, limited movement. Crack Crack and it was all good after a couple of days. I wouldnt go to one for any other health condition though.
Life savers who make me able to walk, stand, sit..even breathe properly.
I dont have my "own" GP, but i do have my Chiro.
Certainly work for me and makes my extras cover worth while.
There sounds like a lot of bad stigma. Hear 1 bad story and it's blown out. Every field has this issue.
I don't know if one will help with OP's issue but here are my experiences:
Chiropractic Science is taught at Macquarie University. https://chiro.mq.edu.au/
I've only ever been to 1 chiro and it's one of the best things that's happened to me.
Yes there is an initial consult but if you see any specialist there will be the same initial consult with no 'improvement work' being done yet. He will ask you to get an xray so he can literally see your problem. This xray should be free if you have Medicare, go to a decent bulk bill facility and haven't had another xray done in that same calendar year.
Those saying medicine is focused on curing and chiro isn't are simply wrong. Go into any pharmacy. All those pain killers, cold, allergy medications are symptom reducing only. They do nothing to cure the problem excluding placebo effect. Same with a lot prescription meds, for example anxiety and cholesterol reducing meds don't cure the problem.
If you sleep on a bad bed and it causes problems for you then of course the chiro work will revert since you haven't dealt with the core problem - the bed.
Chiro will give you some exercises to do in your own time to help, not unlike a physio. These are usually aimed at strengthening specific muscles to keep your bones in a more 'normal alignment' so the issue doesn't revert. Do them for permanent improvement. If you're lazy and ignore and them then that's your own fault.
Yes there might be pain after a session but this is normal. This will generally be more painful when you first visit and feels like nothing months down the line as your body gets used to the new 'layout' (how long depends on how serious your condition is).
I initially had to visit 3 times a week which tapered off to once every 4-7 weeks. I don't need to go but still do as now it is for improved lifestyle (think massage) rather than fixing issues.
Some people are also against 'cracking' of knuckles. My chiro never did any cracking until recently in the 'improved lifestyle' stage.
I pay $22 to $35 per visit after Health Insurance.
It's like I've gotten a new back!
I'm not going to weigh in on the whole Chiropractor debate, as this was the one service I didn't try when trying to relieve pain from sciatica (L5 prolapse onto S1 nerve). I initially tried Osteopath, and that worked quite well; however the relief was only ever temporary. They will freely admit that they are not able to permanently fix your problem, as most back/neck and referral pain is a result of something else (poor posture, sitting too long, etc).
I wish someone had told me prior to having surgery to resolve my problem, that it could be treated with core exercises and general fitness training. I found that even after surgery, I still had the occasional teak in my back that would trigger the referral pain all over again. I was recommended by a work friend to try Clinical Pilates (on the reformer machine), which I cannot recommend highly enough. The only way I was able to solve my back pain and referral pain permanently was to build strength in my core (not the muscles you tone when doing crunches). Make sure that you never sit for long periods of time.
As for your neck, the instructor will come up with a program to help you with that also. I would try and find a Clinical Pilates studio that is run by a Physiotherapist, as they can provide further assistance if you require their services, and it is also covered by your health insurance (if you have extras).
Good luck with it all. It's a difficult journey, but you need to remember that with the effort put in, that you will reap the results in the long run. Unfortunately there is no easy fix for these types of problems.
Just curious - who is your physio?
Essendon Physiotherapy
www.essendonphysio.com.au
Really good guys, friendly and knowledgeable. Reasonably priced as well. I think each session worked out to be about $15 after health insurance (group clinical Pilates session).
Fractured my back, and building core strength at the gym, as well as correcting my posture and sitting habits, helped me a lot too. Sadly, those of us who dealt with fast growth spurts may always suffer from sensitive backs ><
This paper says this, this other paper says that. Who cares about what others say, for some it works for others it doesn't. For me it worked I had sciatic pain down my left leg and the chiro fixed it :) money well spent.
Are you actually serious? These so-called 'papers' make up the foundation of modern medicine and guide doctors and healthcare workers as to what the best current treatments are available to their patients.
People on the forum are using these 'papers' to demonstrate the limited effectiveness and potential dangers of certain chiropractic techniques.
Whilst it is great that you had a positive result with your chiro as others in the forum have had to, it as research that will guide practitioners treatments, not anectodatal evidence
Are you actually serious?
Yes I am
it is great that you had a positive result with your chiro
Thanks
Wrong spot.
If I didn't see a Chiropractor I'd either be dead or severely disabled
Like most people (slackers) I don't do all the exercises I'm told to do, and slowly stop going after I'm better… There was 1 huge spell, that when i went back the xray made me look like a mutant from the movies.
I have degenerative disease which results in my spine slowly curving.
Chiropractor is a very sensitive skilled profession as its dealing with your spine. So when you get a bad Chiropractor it can be disastrous. This occurs because they're rushing clients in and out, thats because they can't a specialist price ie $200.
The concept of Chiro is very simple they push your bones/neveres back to where it should be then with the addition of your exercies and change in posture you're suppose to overtime stay that way.
Kind of like a dentist, you don't stop brushing your teeth after you visit a dentist do you, at the same time for severe issues, when you get braces, there is still maintence work required.
My thoughts - Don't go unless you've already been to one ;-)
Havent been to a chiro in over 5months, due to Chiro having a baby and no replacement.
Reading this reminded me I need to go back I've been feeling down for a while .. I have a degenerative disease of the spine.
When I went back a new Chrio, he located a sore in the right side of my back that I'd forgotten as I never touch it. What had occured was my spine had twisted. He didn't even have to crack that area, he was able to massage it back.
This reminded me that how close Chiro and physio are, its not just back cracking, its putting you back where you should be. Its then up to you to exercise (or in dental terms, brush your teeth).
NO. JUST NO.
But then again it's easy for everyone else to say no when we aren't the ones with your pain.
I just remember my family friend who went to chiropractor that destroyed her back and now she is bed ridden for life. Literally.
Whatever you choose I hope nothing but the best with your health.
Recently had an opportunity to see a chiro for my occasional sore neck and lower back, then they wanted to offer me a 6 month package to fix my problems.
What are your thoughts on chiropractic and chiropractors? Is it effective? and is it actually safe to adjust twice a week?
They earn a very good salary… Which I envy ;)
So it is just a different name for an (very) expensive massage?
Try dry needle or acupuncture with electric current instead.
Quacks I think.
Read this https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/3017487/redir
One gov artical… Given this situation, a tentative risk–benefit analysis cannot produce a positive result. The conclusion must therefore be that, according to the evidence to date, chiropractic spinal manipulation does not demonstrably do more good than harm.
Daily pushups might do the world of good. And unfortunately 10+ minutes of butt lifts like a lap dancer.
I guess it depends on your injury and the skill of the chiropractor. Personally I have a couple of damaged disks at the base of my spine that press on my sciatic nerve. I find chiro gives me a lot more relief than remedial massage.
I used to be very sceptical of them and thought it was a load of rubbish. But it worked wonders on my 2-3 month old baby who had bad reflux (we evntually had him on medication which worked even better but it was a struggle to get the GP to prescribe anything). Then I started seeing the chiropractor myself. I used to see her every 3 months and I'm not sure the spinal adjustments did much long term (I felt great, really flexible, for a few days but then back to just feeling normal). My very first adjustment killed my back for a couple of days so the chiro didn't do such big adjustments after that.
I did have some aches in my thumbs (from cycling and typing) and a sore elbow for a few months from a water slide that my chiropractor resolved with acupuncture (not sure what type) and also some sort of infrared device.
So now I do actually believe it does do something positive. I stopped going when I went back to work full time and found it too inconvenient to get to on a regular basis (and no issues bad enough to consider going for a specifc visit).
So now I do actually believe it does do something positive.
In that case, it probably will……
i think of Alan
it is literally a one way ticket to snap city
What I would say is, if you know someone who goes to a Chiropractor regularly, and it works for them, then probably visit THAT chiropractor. Probably do a few sessions (do not do packages), and see if it works well for you. If it does, then sign up for a package.
Let's just say that Chiropractic care is really a hit-or-miss kind of thing, and is no different from seeing a GP. (i.e. some GPs are horrible, while others are great at their job).
In my case, I had really bad back pains for about 6 months and finally gave in to seeing a Chiropractor. It worked wonders for me.
Chiropractors are only good if you have skeletal issues, for muscular problems you need a physio.
If you have a feeling in your back and neck that is similar to needing to crack a knuckle to relieve some pressure, then you need to see a Chiro.
I've been to one terrible one (didn't manage to crack more than 1 joint) and one amazing one that got many release points.
With this said, don't get locked into a package if you don't know if it is receiving the problem, just attend a few sessions and see how you go.
@Roman Sandstorm: The post is visible still (It's not been down voted). Just scroll up 12 posts from this one.
Seeing 23 doctors is no laughing matter and If you read the whole conversation between myself and strand I was clearly asking him for help as he has excellent knowledge on the subject of healthcare.
Having said this I don't wish for a EV- situation so I will look on this conversation between us as a positive.
I do get frustrated from time to time and I will continue on to doctor 24 and beyond. I will also research and use other methods as I see fit.
As a chef, organic grower and someone who has vast knowledge of nutrition I draw on natural methods as well as western medicine. Hippocrates once said "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food" he was no slouch!
After 9 months of being ill and several hours per day researching modern medicine and natural methods I have a better understanding. I keep an open mind as this is key to progress.
Alternates to western medicine involve trillions of variables so I personally don't rule out anything and only push ahead when comfortable with my calculations.