Australian Government cheating over International Students

Lspiderman3fan on 29/07/2015 - 20:10

I'm an international student who got my visa in late 2010 and recently wrapped up my degree. One of the big incentives to choose Australia over other popular study destinations was the option of a 2 year post-study visa, regardless of degree, which i felt could be an opportunity to gain some experience in my field, perhaps doing an internship to gain a bit of an advantage for when i return home, or just to earn a bit of money i can take home with me. I just recently learnt that in 2013 the rules were changed and now if you applied for your visa before November 2011, you had no opportunity to get a post-study visa unless your degree was part of the Skilled Occupations List. However applicants after Nov 2011 could get an 18 month post study visa regardless of their degree because they had gone through a newer visa application process.

To me this seems like a massive breach of trust to just cancel one of the major incentives that international students factored in before they spent tens of thousands of dollars on education here. Can they even legally do this or do they have carte blanche just because they are the government? If i were to take legal action against them what would be good way to start? I feel cheated and i'm determined to get some compensation.

Education & Work

Comments

      • mlburnian on 01/08/2015 - 00:35

        Yes, they do. It's so hard for fair dinkum Aussies out there…

  • eneloop on 31/07/2015 - 19:08
    -3

    Went to uni rooted nearly every chick in my course and never really did what I studied. I ended up making a battery that didn't really sell well.

  • Terra Australis on 31/07/2015 - 23:14

    You come to Australia because it offers something your home country doesn't and now you're complaining that the Aussie government doesn't want people like you leeching our resources?

    • explosion on 31/07/2015 - 23:26

      He is saying, he was lured by Australian university and immigration agents for overseas student fees/money with promise of work experience visa.

    • rodinthink on 31/07/2015 - 23:30
      +1

      dey terk er jerbs

      • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 06:54
        -1

        Will appreciate if you type in English. That way we can at least try to understand what you mean.

        • Terra Australis on 01/08/2015 - 11:03
          +1

          "They take our jobs."

          He's mocking me because my comment came off as racist; "leeching our resources."

    • freakatronic on 01/08/2015 - 11:37
      +7

      Leeching your resources?? Mate, by coming here and paying extortionate international student fees OP became your resource. And you want to make OP sound like a leech. When no one's buying iron and Australia screws customers in its second best industry, I can only hope you have a better plan than calling foreigners "leeches".

    • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 12:44
      -2

      Yea, you are right. Australia offers something which most intl students' home country doesn't - easy admission, degree for sale and immigration system with plenty loopholes. It's Aus's problem and it has to fix it. Why would intl students care? They will do nothing but exploit.

      • explosion on 01/08/2015 - 19:54
        +1

        Who is exploitating whom ?By immigrating someone fully educated and ready pay tax. Imagine the saving or else you need pay for 18 to 20 years to make someone to pay the tax. Most of the them still centrelink dependent.

        • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 21:09
          +1

          I am not referring to PR holders. I am referring to sub-standard international students who can't even speak English (forget about their admission criteria) and work in casual jobs at low wages illegally thereby taking jobs which would have otherwise gone to PR holders or citizens. I am not generalizing this for all students. Go8 unis or some other good unis get an amazing quality of intl students and they are truly deserving.

        • explosion on 01/08/2015 - 21:58
          +2

          As you mentioned in previous comments good students go to US and EU where no fees and government funds expenses for good students. Others come here by paying fees and expenses as its still better option for them. Now its up to university to hold there reputation. Few years ago lot of skills are listed for PR (hair dressing, crockery etc) and university made the course to suit the PR. Now whom to blame. Government knew it, everyone else knew it. Now need for immigration is reduced due to recession and slowdown and everyone is talking. I feel for OP, but that's how the life is.
          Improving the education is not one day job or won't happen by injecting the fund. Need good students and companies with in the country to generate job and skill. I don't see any good reputed international brand created locally other then mining ones. So lets hope more people come with skill and create new jobs.

        • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 23:04

          @explosion: I struggle to properly understand your English (you probably meant cookery and not crokery). Anyway, I completely agree with you - unis/ colleges are to be blamed completely for low admission standards and low quality of programs. International students are just their customers who are getting benefitted because of the faulty product being sold to them as they are getting an easy access to immigration in return. Investments by good companies, hence more jobs, quality students and closure of these degree selling shops is precisely the solution to the current situation, of which OP is a victim (and there are thousands like him). Bang on!

        • bobbified on 03/08/2015 - 14:51
          +1

          @virhlpool:

          I am referring to sub-standard international students who can't even speak English (forget about their admission criteria) and work in casual jobs at low wages illegally thereby taking jobs which would have otherwise gone to PR holders or citizens.

          Without condoning the situations where students work more than their allowable hours, you'll find that the jobs that these students take are the ones that PR holders and citizens don't want because the pay is not much more than the dole that they get. Some people would rather be able to sit on their lazy fat asses at home living off the dole than wake up each morning to earn a living.

          Going by what you've said about students who "can't even speak english", taking these jobs, I think, as a business owner, if there were two people who were the same but one could speak english and one couldn't.. and both were willing to work under the same conditions, it'll be a no-brainer to pick the one that can speak english. However, it is often the case that an english speaking candidate isn't available to choose from.

          (I am generalising here about people on the dole and I realise that there are indeed those who are actively seeking employment so I'm not saying that everyone on the dole is a bludger.)

        • virhlpool on 04/08/2015 - 07:46
          -1

          @hv:

          Well, keeping the the current job market in mind, I would strongly disagree with you. There are herds of unemployed citizens and PR holders (including new migrants and fresh graduates) willing to work in restaurants and retail stores at a minimum wages i.e. $17-20 per hour in each of our cities and towns. However, these intl students work in cash at $10-$12 an hour which itself is illegal in the first place both in terms of wages as well as their working hours. Of course the business owners won't find PR holders or citizens who would work at these wages (and in cash) since they are legal workers and deserve to be paid at least the minimum wages plus super. It doesn't mean though that there are no PR holders and citizens willing to take those jobs if offered at legal wages. In fact, there are thousands right here in each of our cities. Intl students are spoiling job markets and as I mentioned, business owners are benefitted hugely so why would they even bother.

          Dole-dependents who are otherwise physically fit to work are unique creatures.. let's not even comment on them. But, I am referring to those PR and citizens, who ARE willing to work.

        • bobbified on 07/08/2015 - 11:00

          @virhlpool:

          I agree that the international students are more willing to work for less money - but have you ever thought about why they do that?

          I live in an area where there are lots of students and I associate with them. Most seem to know that they are working for an amount that's less than the minimum wage, however, they don't really see themselves having a choice. The term "beggers can't be choosers" comes to mind. Unfortunately, not all international students are from mega-rich families. The ones that aren't from rich families have probably seen and know what hard work is, so they are willing to do whatever's necessary to survive.

          Sitting at home whinging about the pay rates won't put food on their table.

          Anyone who speaks up about the sh!tty wages is likely to have a "long holiday" from that job. Every now and then, a case pops up about Fairwork Austalia busting a restaurant or some other kind of establishment for underpaying their staff. But that's just one in the thousands of restaurants and when that happens, what is the employee going to do for income during the weeks, months, years that it takes to prosecute a business owner? There's also no guarantees that any backpay will actually get paid. Given the numbers, realistically, how many of us would trust this political body to fight for us? They will definitely not be knocking on your door with a plate of food the day after you get sacked for speaking up.

          Seeing the way some of them work makes me feel real bad. They would go from one job to the next each day and still try to study to get the best possible grades. The amount they earn is less than half of what I earn (I'm not some super employee on a super high salary!), except they work about twice as many hours and in much worse conditions.

          Whether or not the business owners can actually afford to pay minimum wage or above is a whole different story.

          I know that if i was unemployed, I'd be willing to do anything to earn an income - sh!t income or not. Everyone has to start somewhere. (The only thing I wouldn't do is sell my butt! lol!)

          There are actually plenty of jobs out there for anyone that's willing to work - most can be had as long as the person doesn't carry the "I'm-too-good-for-this-job" attitude when they are looking around.

          btw… I didn't neg your above comment….

        • virhlpool on 13/08/2015 - 19:39
          -1

          @hv:

          While all you have mentioned is correct and quite apparent, you don't seem to have understood the main issue being discussed here. Please find below the points:

          1) These students aren't of the good quality at the first place. Most intl students in degree-selling shops come here through an extremely easy admission procedure since quality of students or quality of education is not the focus area for these profit making shops… except govt and some other reputed unis of course. Does Australia need this quality of students at the first place (I am not even talking about English skills)?

          2) No one has forced them to come to Australia and study. There are many destinations including the US and Europe (or their own country) and they could have gone there if they were eligible for that. So, struggling or working hard is what they have chosen to do. Getting PR is the end objective in mostly all cases.

          3) After working in cafes illegally for 40 hours a week, are you sure that they study hard? By the way, many of them are here to earn money and settle down - student visa being the easiest legal visa to be here and work, they choose that route. Studying was never their purpose at the first place. Again, there are exceptions such as reputed unis, so let's not generalize it but students studying in such reputed institutions are hardly any percentage when you consider total numbers.

          If you think these issues are exaggerated then you need to really understand the intl students' community closely.

        • bobbified on 14/08/2015 - 10:42
          +1

          @virhlpool:

          If we go back to your original point about these students working for cheap rates vs places where they pay the minimum wage, let me ask you a question:

          Have you ever gone out to a particular restaurant because of it's cheap prices compared to other restaurants? Chances are, the prices are lower because of what you refer to as "sub-standard international students who can't even speak English" working there.

          Dare I say that without them, the prices of food in those particular restaurants will go up.

          You're sitting here complaining about these students stealing jobs, yet you're happy to take the benefits when it suits you…

        • virhlpool on 15/08/2015 - 18:31
          -1

          @hv:

          It doesn't mean that the wrong should go on since it benefits all of us!

  • rodinthink on 01/08/2015 - 02:10
    -8

    Things to be considered , The Founder of OZbargain is asianbut born in OZ. But his personality is like true blue OZ. (ACHTUNG! NEIN! I mean NOT blonde-colour piercing blue eyes white… dragon, you 3x K)

    THINK like "australian" not speak like one with wee bit high pitched one-nation-bogan accent. (sorry for top-notch bloke out there who got offended)

    Honestly, I reckon and feel that Australia is much more Xenophobic than Canada, even though their white policy 1955 already removed. Did ya think so? What I'm trying to deliver here is Mild racism which happen in Australia , by exceptional Louis CK which have a gigantic balls. Don't get me wrong , the racism in Australia heavily reduced thanks to the "internet-independent-educated" new generation but canada still better in term of harmony of Internation Universal human…being….

    BTW OP, I can feel your frustration, but if you can't respect Australian Law , don't ever expect to become one of OZ citizen (I mean for you to be able to apply for PR)
    True Aussie respects laws and their policy except if the law is ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Think-pad about it!
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    This Comment will be censored + marked as an inappropiate and my account will be band-ed in 3,2,1...... miliseconds, Honestly I reckon that OZ allowed us for the freedom of expression & speeech but I don't feel it here in OZbargain , most of my comment mark as inappropiate and censored . Think about it mod!
    • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 06:58
      +1

      Do true Aussies like us respect commercialisation of education and ignorance for the existence of such degree selling shops which lure sub-standard quality of students through their international agents just to make quick bucks and damage our education system/ quality and possibly the immigration system?

  • syousef on 01/08/2015 - 05:42
    +14

    The racist undertones to this thread are disturbing.

    I see we are busy turning back the boats by making damn sure no one wants to every come here.

    Btw before anyone starts I was born here and have only ever studied here. I'm not in favour of bringing in cheaper labour from overseas - all that does is destroy our standard of living. But when you take an international student and offer an incentive, then rip it away silently while they're doing the degree, that's shameful whether it was guranteed or not.

    • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 07:04
      +1

      Which incentive? Incentive of an easy admission to a college, which doesn't care about quality of students and uses agents to lure sub-standard intl students in the most cases (who apparently don't do their own research) showing them a dream of an easy path to Aus migration? Please note that this is a general comment, not necessarily relevant to OP. But, it's true in case of the most intl students.

      • syousef on 01/08/2015 - 11:36
        +3

        If you make an offer, and someone accepts based on your conditions to that offer, altering the bargain is a dishonest move. You know perfectly well that the intricacies of moving overseas and studying in a foreign country aren't something you can research to the point that there are no surprises. Especially true for an 18 year old. The quality of the student doesn't come into the ethics of my argument.

        • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 12:40
          +2

          Mate, I completely understand your point, but any policies (be it an immigration policy or education policy or industrial policy etc.) of any government is never permanent and is bound to go through changes over time depending on circumstances, learnings, compulsions, etc. SOL list changes every year. For example, one can't take an admission in a 4-year program basis the current SOL list, assuming that his/ her profession will still be on SOL list after 4 years. There's no guarantee. The same is true with visa rules and norms.

        • h4zey on 01/08/2015 - 16:34
          +1

          @virhlpool: This can easily be a debate about ethical and legality. The fact that something is legal doesn't make it ethical and vice verse.

        • syousef on 01/08/2015 - 22:00
          +2

          @virhlpool:

          And was any of this explained to the 18 year old foreign student? Does the government not have an obligation to these students to provide correct information. I have no clue what he was told but to hold a 17 or 18 year old accountable for not reading the fine print is neither just nor sane, especially when you're happy to take his cash.

  • teehee on 01/08/2015 - 06:10
    +3

    What it comes down to:

    Was it wrong ethically? Yes.

    Legally? No.

    What can you do about it? Ask very nicely and even then you're unlikely to get anything.

  • foxmulder on 01/08/2015 - 10:53
    +1

    I prefer Spiderman 1.

  • freakatronic on 01/08/2015 - 11:25
    +1

    Hot topic. I agree with someone else here who said to take it as a lesson and move on. Governments can and do make laws that affect, for better or worse, millions of people. The Australian government in particular, as a representative of its people, tends to treat middle class foreigners with indifference at best. If you're rich enough to get an 888 visa, your treatment will be much better.

    • ACTdealchaser on 01/08/2015 - 12:48
      +1

      I suppose it is wise to cut the loose and move on. I do it sometimes in my personal life: bought shit from the shop and just bought a replacement without bothering to come back…

      However i know the society becomes a better place if people stand up for their rights:

      A School teacher worked in a few schools. At her time she could only claim car expenses among schools she worked for not the travel from her home to school 1 or way back to work as per say of law at that time. She felt not right as it is a fair for her to incur so much burden the calculate the deduction and it is very much an inherent part for her to travel: how she could get her car from home to school 1 so she can travel for work and if her travel from school 1 to school 2 is for work why the nature is different?

      It is not really practical for a tax payer to sue ATO for such a matter as due to the cost. However she did and she won. She won not for herself and also for everyone as the tax system becomes fairer. The gov also learned a lesson about treating people with fairness. Now ATO official allows such a deduction as below :Ref: Itinerant work: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Income-and-deductions/Ded…

      In OP's scenario I don't believe there is a misleading between the gov and himself. I am just shocked by the opinions of the OP should shut up and move on on the ground that he/she is not a citizen…

      • freakatronic on 01/08/2015 - 17:46
        +3

        That's not what I'm saying. Citizen or not, the government is always changing laws. Most often at the expense of minorities. After all, how are non-citizens supposed to even get representation given that our system (supposedly) represents voters, and all voters are citizens?

        Australia doesn't give a baked damn about international students. In the mind of the average pleb around here, all foreigners are just short of boat people. Especially coloured ones with accents. Forget the part where international student fees are four times what a local pays, and in cash up front without exceptions. Forget that migrant labour has always been the backbone of our economy (second gens end up lazy and entitled as the locals taught them to be). No, international students should count themselves lucky not to be bashed in the streets. Getting screwed by the government? Pff. You skun your knees on the lawn. Get up and carry on.

  • jonathonsunshine on 01/08/2015 - 12:50
    +10

    I stopped reading after half the first page of comments. Thread makes me wish negative votes were public. At the vey least, OP seems to have an excellent grasp of the English language which is more than can be said for a lot of the bogan garbage I read today.

    • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 16:40

      I agree. I can't relate much though if the case has anything to do with English. Going by your logic, 40% of our population (not sure of exact number) which lives on the doles should be replaced by much more productive, educated, skilled, and hardworking immigrants keeping the population of the nation unchanged. I would rather focus on improving our own garbage than take the other risk. Not to mention that OP's comment isn't valid.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/08/2015 - 18:40
        +1

        Anti bogan is another word for Anti Australian. A lot of people here have never even connected with blue collar Aussies and there is more to them than the stereotypes suggest. Quite similar to how many on this thread here scream of racism.

        • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 21:15
          -3

          Frankly, bogan or non-bogan, local or international - doesn't matter as long as a person is hardworking (read intelligent in case of students), law abiding and productive for the nation. I don't give a damn to which color or race he is of if he meets these criteria. But if he exploits govt systems and loopholes, then he's of absolutely no value (and rather harmful) to the nation. These include citizens, PR holders, unis, businessmen, intl students, local students and all the rest! :-)

        • syousef on 01/08/2015 - 23:02
          +2

          Anti bogan is another word for Anti Australian

          Take that back! Calling all Australians bogans is VILE!

        • virhlpool on 02/08/2015 - 18:10

          @virhlpool: What's wrong with this? Why negative votes?

        • dengziyi on 08/08/2015 - 12:18

          @virhlpool:

          Gina Rinehart exploits the government, our providing (mining) sector to our economy itself exploits the government. Many large transnational corporations exploit the government. Locals exploit welfare, unemployed exploit New Start. But in this case, OP hasn't exploited anything. If the correct criteria is met, international students are offered visas.

          "He's of absolutely no value to the nation" - which nation are you in, One Nation?

        • virhlpool on 13/08/2015 - 19:42

          @dengziyi: My comment isn't about OP at all. I don't even know OP's background and his uni. I was referring to most of the intl students (mainly pvt colleges.)

  • lonix on 01/08/2015 - 21:41
    +1

    Think yourself lucky, I was forced to drop out of school at year 10 and get a job to support myself. I could only dream of getting a degree and a high paying job. And I was born in this country.

    • syousef on 01/08/2015 - 23:06
      +9

      And for every student that makes it to Australia to study there are 10,000 or more that are too poor to come here and perhaps half can't afford education in their country either. I don't think "count yourself lucky" is ever a productive argument. There is always someone worse off than you and if no one ever complains or attempt to improve their lot, the world just spirals into a pile of excrement. I don't think you should put the burden of your own bad fortune on some foreign student. One of the worst things about Australian culture is tall poppy syndrome is rife and I've seen it get much worse in the last couple of decades.

    • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 23:07

      Isn't schooling till high school level free in this country? Why did you have to drop out if you were eligible for centrelink support? Just curious.

  • iporter on 02/08/2015 - 13:15

    This dude doesn't get Australian culture. You don't ask Aussies to feel sorry for you, a foreigner if they want to take some benefit away.

  • lost69 on 02/08/2015 - 14:31
    -6

    Seen universities in 2015? Its mini-Beijing. It ain't Australia. Where are all the white people? Take away the international students and the universities would collapse. This country has been sold for $$$$$$. Farms bought, education bought, brothels bought, property gone. Soon you won't see white only yellow. No wonder white people are on the dole, employ an immigrant for $10 an hour and give them a tent in the alleyway out back and you have a loyal worker who won't complain. Go on neg me. These are FACTS. Australia is nearly all the way turned into an Asian toilet.

    • mady123 on 02/08/2015 - 15:19
      +2

      You were definitely lost in 69 because you still has WHITE, BLACK & YELLOW thing in your head!!!!

    • virhlpool on 02/08/2015 - 18:12
      -1

      So do Asians believe too about dole-dependent locals (those who don't wanna work)! I mean who likes unproductive, dole-dependent, uneducated, backward, stinky garbage bags? Garbage is garbage - be it yellow, white, black or brown!

      I don't like generalization - classification should always be rationalized basis useful (to the nation) parameters and not those like races, nationalities, etc. Having said this, it needs to be carefully looked into whether the country needs low-standard intl students and immigrants (like what's happening these days) OR it should focus more on those with the best of the world sorta quality only. Policies need to be changed accordingly and degree selling shops need to be shut down. This is my opinion. Others are welcome to share their views.

    • freakatronic on 02/08/2015 - 21:35
      +3

      Hahaha…you sound like a sore loser. Sore losers demand $35 p/h for a button pressing job with no responsibility. Sore losers think that the world owes them a living. Sore losers stay losers forever because while they're complaining, someone with the mettle for the job has already stepped in and got on with it.

      Haha "no wonder white people are on the dole". They survive by default over here. Take away the feeding programme and see if they have what it takes to sustain their lives. If the competition's too fierce, then please feel free to sit back down in your puddle of entitlement and complain that no one's giving you a go.

      Geographically, Australia is in Asia anyway. If you can't accept that then please, go back to Lancastershire or wherever your Nanna and Poppy came from.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/08/2015 - 10:24
        +1

        To be fair there needs to be a balance. People cannot control the circumstance of their birth. Global inequalities and vastly different living standards mean that you cannot apply competition and entitlement globally without ruining a man lives (although it would be arguably "fairer"). Governments have social responsibility to its voters to look after as many of them as possible.

        In order to judge these policies, one will have to look at what benefits the most Australians. International students regardless of equality pay almost the same fees as each other. Having a wide range of students mean more money overall. Having a reputation for exclusively high quality students would mean losing out on a lot of this income for not much more benefits. ANU, UQ, UniSyd/Melb have pretty outstanding reputations anyway. The key here would be expanding the range. From this group one can pick for immigration the best and appropriately trained students in fields that benefit Australia the most.

        I am happy to have global unrestricted competition, with my specialist skills it will only mean more opportunities for me but to achieve this, borders would have to be completely demolished and humans are definitely not ready for that yet.

        • virhlpool on 04/08/2015 - 08:08
          -1

          But what you are suggesting (allowing all qualities of students including low-quality and hence keeping our degree-selling shops going) also means that these low-quality students will eventually become PR (there are plenty ways and enough loopholes to do that) and become part of Australia. Does our country need that immigrants of that quality who are good for just casual jobs and can't contribute anything towards innovation, research or intellect which any developed country constantly needs? And if it happens at an ever increasing scale, what will be the difference between us and a developing or underdeveloped economies? I am actually in favour of international students and migrants, but those ones who are of globally competitive quality and can actually contribute to the nation. Adding low-quality population will only worsen our existing challenges and weaknesses as a country. And, therefore degree-selling shops need to shut down in first place. Having just 6-7 unis of intl repute and 200 odd (or even more) commercialized junks (read colleges and unis running only for money) won't take us anywhere!

        • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2015 - 09:09

          @virhlpool: It is actually happening right now, I am not sure what kind of skill assessment vetassess performs but there are also plenty of ways and enough loopholes for low quality students from foreign universities who become part of Australia. I do think that the government should be more stringent in selecting high quality students as mentioned in my post. In Finland, certain universities from certain countries count for anywhere between 50-80% of the equivalent education level stated in its immigration scoring. I believe Australia should apply a policy similar to that for all applicants applying through merit. However, the degree selling shops can still continue.

          While not very glamorous immediately, by becoming and education hub for both low and high quality education, Australia's economy may be able to compensate the loss from mining and other low tier industries.

          It is a demand supply thing, if people do not value even a low quality Australian education, nobody will come. The key again is balance. The cost of these degrees should be high contribute significantly to the economy and as an added effect, select for individuals with higher spending power.

        • virhlpool on 04/08/2015 - 09:45

          @lolbbq:

          if people do not value even a low-quality Australian education, nobody will come.

          That's where we are wrong. They aren't coming here for education, they are coming for immigration.

          In Finland, certain universities from certain countries count for anywhere between 50-80% of the equivalent education level stated in its immigration scoring. I believe Australia should apply a policy similar to that for all applicants applying through merit. However, the degree selling shops can still continue.

          No need to make major changes in the education/ admission system at all - just put more stringent tests with set scores as admission criteria (GMAT, GRE, SAT) or much higher passing criteria on the existing IELTS, and everything will come filtered to us. Garbage won't pass these filters. This is a simple measure to take. And if these happens, we will be able to compete with the US and Europe in terms of quality of education.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/08/2015 - 11:55
        +2

        I used to work with a lot of Chinese migrants. They were cool dudes, but they harboured a lot of racism, particularly towards Indians and Arabs. It was strange, because they were also frequently victims of racism. We worked in a restaurant, and while 99% of people were fine 99% of the time, it was not uncommon for a racist remark or two to appear when a customer was unhappy with something. Also, people frequently deferred to me, assuming I was the manager because I was white. They hated the racism when they were the victim, but participated in racism of their own. I don't think this justifies their experience in an "eye-for-an-eye" kind of way. People need to realise racism doesn't neatly categorise people into "victim" and "perpetrator", but is rather an ignorance we probably all share to some degree about certain people. One that requires a constant mindfulness of what we think of people and why we think it.

        • virhlpool on 04/08/2015 - 08:17
          -1

          "Racism" is a highly politicized word and we tend to use it at our convenience and ignore when we want. If everyone living in Australia learns English and gels well with the local culture and society, 'racism' won't exist. As long as we will have a culture of not socializing with our neighbours, living in extremely nuclear families (not even keeping parents with us), not letting our kids play with others kids in the street, not interacting with others in public transport or in public places, and so on, our problems will remain. Some countries have amazing social life and hence we don't feel racism there despite skin color differences and cultural differences (think of Brazil, Mexico, India, Singapore..). We all, irrespective of our race and culture, need to just open up and learn about other cultures. Only that will help us realize that every race has very a similar value system, just the different ways to follow it.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2015 - 09:12
          +1

          @virhlpool: For such a multiracial society, Singapore has an unpublicised reputation of racially selective immigration to maintain its Chinese majority. Pros and Cons there I guess.

        • lgacb08 on 04/08/2015 - 18:06

          @virhlpool: lol at the India and Singapore remark, India doesn't discriminate as long as you're not Muslim/Pakistani/Bangladeshi, and to be honest it's just a huge religious hotpot where everyone is Indian but different religion and they are racist against their own kind with their caste system, what's worst than that? And Singapore, their selective immigration policy would provoke an outcry of racism in any developed western country, just go around Singaporean forums to see what sort of racist/xenophobic remarks their citizen burst out.

        • virhlpool on 04/08/2015 - 18:52

          @lgacb08:

          I have spent a good amount of time in those countries and I beg to differ here. What's worst about our own culture in Australia is that we don't even socialize with our neighbours (aren't we big time privacy freaks), live in extremely nuclear families (not even keep parents with us), not let our kids play with other kids of the street, don't interact with others in public transport or in public places, have very low tolerance on roads, don't celebrate festivals with neighbours, don't have lunch together with others at workplaces, and so on. However, racist you call India - at least I found these aspects of their social life very interesting and therefore racism doesn't come in play here. I would appreciate that life versus our extremely isolated life which is full of ignorance of other cultures in Australia.

  • jonathan456 on 02/08/2015 - 15:49

    That sucks man. Whether or not we should give immigrants more opportunities to stay in this country is an entire issue, but making false promises is not something i can accept. Oh man, those immigrants going home are probably going to have a negative image of Australia. It makes me cringe when i think about that. Overall worse global image for Australia , less tourism , less trade. Governments just like everyone else makes mistakes, it really sucks when they make a mistake and they ruin thousands of people 's lives.

  • Icecold5000 on 02/08/2015 - 17:23

    "Can they even legally do this or do they have carte blanche just because they are the government?"

    You can try but legally, according to the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty the Government can pass any legislation it want to as long as it can get through both houses. Bear in mind you were paying for a degree and not a visa for post graduation work. The contract you entered into is for an education not a visa. The two are entirely separate issues and legislation especially immigration law is always subject to change. Legal action is an expensive proposition and since you're asking OB it sounds like it may be a little beyond your means. If the Government can imprison refugees on small island for indefinite detention then I'm not sure of your chances of success.

  • frostman on 03/08/2015 - 11:36
    -1

    It's not about intl or local students. Everyone is paying fees. I really don't mind the distribution of class/students by races or nationalities so far as they ALL are of desired standards and quality and have proven them through stringent admission criteria and English requirements.

    Rubbish, the FEES is what's placing them a spot here. Sydney Unis don't mind how a student fairs up on whether he/she fails or not, or gets the University medal. They care about the $$. A local student here pays on average $28,000 for their IT degree. This is paid in drips and drabs from the Uni's point of view. When they get a few thousand Intl students who are willing to pay $50,000 per year upfront, they get these people in ASAP.

    • virhlpool on 04/08/2015 - 08:26

      That's precisely what I am saying. Just because there are thousands of intl students willing to pay exorbitant fees and come to our commercialized unis to study (for apparent reasons like easy migration), it doesn't mean that they all should be let in irrespective of their quality. Let them crack tough admission tests with good scores and then come in. What's happening right now is exactly opposite - throw money and get in, which is extremely bad for our education system and its reputation.

      • frostman on 04/08/2015 - 10:36

        Let them crack tough admission tests with good scores and then come in. What's happening right now is exactly opposite - throw money and get in, which is extremely bad for our education system and its reputation.

        Exactly, couldn't agree more.

        GREED is what's killing our future of education.. Universities are happy to scale down an entire Course because it may contain a significant number of Intl students, most of whom can't write an essay or produce an IT Operations Business Case document, but given they're paying 50,0000 / year, it's sweet.
        The Chancellors and the rest of the Uni board of directors get a phat pay-check at the end of all this.

        Uni's arent doing enough about cheating, in my IT Operations course, I know a significant number of Intl students who were cheating by getting other people to do their part, how did I know? because when they brought in their submission in a group project, they couldn't explain various items I asked them, which supposedly, they've written.

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