Australian Government cheating over International Students

Lspiderman3fan on 29/07/2015 - 20:10

I'm an international student who got my visa in late 2010 and recently wrapped up my degree. One of the big incentives to choose Australia over other popular study destinations was the option of a 2 year post-study visa, regardless of degree, which i felt could be an opportunity to gain some experience in my field, perhaps doing an internship to gain a bit of an advantage for when i return home, or just to earn a bit of money i can take home with me. I just recently learnt that in 2013 the rules were changed and now if you applied for your visa before November 2011, you had no opportunity to get a post-study visa unless your degree was part of the Skilled Occupations List. However applicants after Nov 2011 could get an 18 month post study visa regardless of their degree because they had gone through a newer visa application process.

To me this seems like a massive breach of trust to just cancel one of the major incentives that international students factored in before they spent tens of thousands of dollars on education here. Can they even legally do this or do they have carte blanche just because they are the government? If i were to take legal action against them what would be good way to start? I feel cheated and i'm determined to get some compensation.

Education & Work

Comments

        • dealman on 01/08/2015 - 08:36
          +1

          who had strong ties to the embassy.

          They all pretend to have these ties and drop names, all fake just to create the impression of invincibility.

          Immigration and Embassy staff here have strict laws against brown nosing and bribes etc… so don't assume she was very close..

          The case might be she herself was misinformed by her contacts at the embassy,

          The best she could do to " get close " to the embassy is to do a MARA certification.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2015 - 23:25
      +1

      You've got a good head on your shoulders, I'm sure you'll do well whatever happens. It's been a pleasure reading your responses on OzBargain, thanks for choosing our country for your study.

    • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 01:24

      These are the basic disadvantages of going through an agent and not doing the proper research yourself. I frankly don't see a need of an agent if you know English and your intention is to get into a reputed uni. Agents are for commercial shops who sell degrees.

      • spiderman3fan on 31/07/2015 - 02:50
        +2

        In hindsight you're probably right, but you should understand that they are used so much it almost viewed as a necessary protocol to get your visa through an agent. Even when you go to 'study in australia' fairs the reps of the high commission point you towards certain agents.

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 08:50

          I understand it and it is so unfortunate. I mean it's common-sense. Harvard or MIT (or any decent uni in the world) or even Uni of Sydney or Uni of Melbourne in Australia never needed an agent in their history, right? There has to be some reason if one has to take help of agents to bring students. That's why I call them 'degree selling commercial shops'. Why would a good uni or good college need an agent or have such easy admission criteria that almost ensure a confirmed admission once you apply!

        • vroomkroom on 31/07/2015 - 14:35

          @virhlpool: Reason - FREE MONEY

  • ACTdealchaser on 30/07/2015 - 17:12
    +5

    Hi OP.

    I support you if what you said it is the case. I think what makes Australia attractive is people can be treated properly here. Being told one thing to get into something and then told something else afterwards is not the right thing and you don't deserve to be treated like that even if it is government and some self entitled people feel like to judge you because they are citizen and you are not. Unfortunately I saw a lot of comments suggesting you deserved be treated anyway the government feels, which is very wrong. These comments were made without the understanding of the facts of the newer and older system.

    I hope the OP doesn't feel so much hospitality in real life.

    Bad laws are there to be challenged or subject to judicial review shall I say.

    However it is just a misfortune that you couldn't get newer/better terms under new system as the OP is under the old system.

    I wish the you best luck in the future.

  • KaTst3R on 30/07/2015 - 17:46

    With the AUD so cheap, I think rules will be tightened further…

  • nicorosberg on 30/07/2015 - 18:05
    +1

    Hi OP
    I sympathize with your situation and would recommend you contact a reputable Migration Agent for a detailed consult on what other skilled visa options are available to you (be it temporary or permanent) based on your recently wrapped up degree plus any other professional expertise you may hold. Migration Law can get very complicated and gets reviewed/revised usually at the beginning of each fin.year. Good-luck! (Find and Agent here ==> https://www.mara.gov.au/

  • Clementt on 30/07/2015 - 18:54

    I would be honest with you.

    1) You can take your chances apply for Employer Sponsored or State Nominated Visa to stay in Australia, be it you want to be PR or Non-PR.
    Very low chances for this to happen except if you know someone in regional area who would hire you.

    2) You can either invest A$1.5 mil and apply for Business Innovation and Investment (Permanent) visa (subclass 888)
    This visa is made for the super-rich so they would invest in Australia and Immigration specially made it for them.

    3) Study Post-graduate and make sure the nominated occupation is in SOL List.
    Apply after graduation but no gurantee as rules might change and your nominated occupation will be removed by then. But I do noticed Civil Engineer,
    Panel Beater, Surveyor, Electrician, and etc have less chances to be removed.

    4) Are you going to get married in a month or before your visa expire, make sure the celebrant are there and need time to be registered.
    This does not look at your age, qualification, english level, study requirement and etc.

    I know it is ridiculous when people like you who apply a proper student visa, study australia education, and maybe even working legally in australia will be forced to leave because it doesn't fullfill what they need. Might as well just travel to indonesia and take a boat here.

    • Serapis on 30/07/2015 - 20:52

      And end up on Nauru? Good job.

      Don't like their policies? Vote them out at the next election and cross your fingers for the best when the new one takes over.

      • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 01:27

        If not Nauru, where do you want them to be? What are the options?

        • Serapis on 31/07/2015 - 09:25

          It's a finicky area so i wouldn't get into government immigration policies, I've heard of how bad things are there from people who worked there with govt or on contact but let's just agree they have full discretion to do what they like since we don't have a bill or charter of human rights.

          Only thing you can really do if you don't like their policy is to vote them out in the next election.

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 09:51

          @Serapis: Isn't Nauru better than being aboard unsafe boats in windy seas? I am not against human rights, but I strongly feel that a lot of 'so called' asylum seekers intentionally come to Australian shores bypassing many other 'not so great' countries on the way! If it was about escaping difficult situations in their own countries, then why such a long journey to a place which is miles and miles away? There are many other countries/ islands in between - why not try some of them?

          Now having said this, many are genuine but again the point I don't get is - why such a long journey and why this country? When one is escaping a tough situation, he/she doesn't have mind or conscious to choose a country and travel until you reach there. Typically he would go to any nearest place which safer and isn't their country. I respect and value those and I call them 'genuine'.

        • Serapis on 31/07/2015 - 14:14

          @virhlpool:

          Some instances is whatever's sold to them by smugglers, others it may be a situation of 'Any other country is better than here.' Whatever the reason is, a lot of the people end up in a sort of limbo where they're brushed away and shelved like a book and can't actually progress with their lives for months or years. While I understand the need to do this out of border security reasons, the current way is not the way to go.

          Others who end up in the country can still get into the same limbo situation. A good story about this is the High Court case of Al-Kateb v Godwin

  • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2015 - 18:54

    Read the fine print next time.

    i'm determined to get some compensation

    The way to go … sigh.

  • ge on 30/07/2015 - 20:30
    +2

    Sorry to hear your frustration OP. I hear your pain. It must be horrible to learn that an immigration rule change is screwing your initial plans that define where you live.

    Unfortunately, you applied for a student visa and you got a student visa under the student visa conditions. I can assure you that your student visa conditions in no way "guarantee" that you'll be able to get another type of visa in the future.

    This was always a risk since the beginning. If you didn't know that, that's on you. You're certainly not guaranteed future visa eligibility (probably in any country)

    Being a migrant myself, I planned to become a citizen after 4 years. However, I knew that citizenship eligibility rules may change and I was guaranteed nothing.

    Be grateful for your life in Australia and if you want to stay here, re-think your plan and find an alternative - there are many ways to stay in Australia.

    • ACTdealchaser on 30/07/2015 - 23:39

      However, procedure fairness is part of the beauty of a civil society. Although it is a guarantee, it is reasonable for someone to be treated with fair and justice.

      As much as the OP enjoyed his time in Australia, I don't think he needs to be grateful as if it is a gift from somewhere.

      The US would be a commonwealth country, if the tea party felt so grateful and respected the system regardless. This world becomes better as people becomes aware what they deserve and stands up for it.

      From a practical sense, since it is not hard TO find citizens so good at feeling entitled to everything and having so trouble to ask for them, I really feel like OP has every right to be upset and not be grateful at all. Otherwise where we put those people live on the dole as a career and our MPs who enjoyed moving jobs into their electorate so much?

      So man up OP.

  • explosion on 30/07/2015 - 20:34

    I think with unemployment rate and mining downturn, you have better chance to get job outside then here. I also know how the university advertise when they need international student to enroll with visa option etc. I see where you coming from. I have also seen people blaming other countries rule in similar way.

  • Serapis on 30/07/2015 - 20:35
    +1

    Can they even legally do this or do they have carte blanche just because they are the government?

    The answer is yes and yes.

    • COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 51

    • Legislative powers of the Parliament [see Notes 10 and 11]

    • The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:
      (xxvii) immigration and emigration;

    Good luck arguing that its unconstitutional. We don't have a bill of rights , classic example: if Parliament has power to make laws with respect to children, it could validly pass a law that required all blue-eyed babies to be killed at birth. The law, although terrible, would be valid.

    Maybe you could do something if you already signed a formal post-study visa agreement with them, bad luck if you assumed laws would stay the same for the length of your time here.

    • exonerate on 31/07/2015 - 00:41

      Blue eye babies example sounds like a Sarah Joseph example?

      • Serapis on 31/07/2015 - 09:20

        Are you referring to a real / hypothetical case or are you talking about the human rights law professor Sarah Joseph?

        Blue eyed babies example is a textbook hypothetical case studied in constitutional law.

        • exonerate on 31/07/2015 - 13:21

          I was referring to the person, the phrasing was the same as how she explained it in class so I was wondering if that's where the quote came from cause it sounded very familiar haha, didn't realise it was a widely used hypothetical example.

        • Serapis on 31/07/2015 - 14:21

          @exonerate:
          Yup it's widely used, I actually copy and pasted that bit out of a page in a textbook =P

          Its one of those oft used hypothetical test cases like the Speluncean Explorers case in criminal law.

  • xabiso on 30/07/2015 - 20:41
    +2

    OP, my qualification was removed from the Skilled Occupation List a semester before I graduated from my four year study. To make things worst, there was an industrial action in my university whereby lecturers witheld our results and didn't let us graduate on time as protest to demand for better job security and terms. Nevertheless, it was still possible for me to find a legal way to stay on in Australia and eventually gain a PR without the use of a migration agent. My advise is to always check www.immi.gov.au for details and relevant forms. Make calls to their hotline if you have questions. Ask very specific questions and not general ones or you will be told to check the website. Also, try to work in groups, there are usually many people in a similar position as you, wanting the same outcome. Work together to crosscheck documents. Make sure the dates are correct etc.

    A migration agent is experience so he/she might be able to tell you which visa class is most suitable to your goals. Some are really bad at handling your documents and communication with the department due to the sheer number of cases they handle, so choose carefully. Regardless of the fee they charge, they can't help you with accelerating your application through "close contacts/relationship with the department". In Australia it is very fair, when you apply, you get placed in a queue, if you meet the black and white requirements, you will get your visa.

    The point system changed even more a year later and you can't blame them as it is all in the interest of the country. There's usually a "transitional arrangments" when they make significant changes, allowing applicants to either use the old rule or the revised rule. In most cases, having both options would give you an advantage. I personally think you haven't read enough or are simply misinformed.

    As for promises or guarantees, there's no such thing given by the Government of Australia! Your migration/visa agent/university does not represent the government of Australia. Remember that the rules are all at their discretion and it usually changes to cater to the needs of Australia (ie SOL list).

    Good luck.

    Disclaimer: speaking from personal experience

  • Baghern on 30/07/2015 - 20:52
    +1

    Yeah I remember when they bought this is. What the Government did is dodgy, I was am still surprised they got away with it.

    We have ALOT and I mean ALOT of easy routes for people students to get into Australia… ALOT of it is abused, the Government has always known this, but allowed it to go ahead as it brings in a crap load of money

    • Serapis on 30/07/2015 - 20:54
      +1

      To be exact:

      The composition of Australian trade in services: In 2012-13, Australia's five largest services exports were:

      Education-related travel services - $14.5. billion
      Recreational travel services - $12.6 billion
      Business travel services $4.2 billion
      Professional services - $4.1 billion
      Technical and other business services (including architectural, engineering, surveying and scientific services) - $3.5 billion

      Yup, education services brings in more money than people going on holidays.

  • virhlpool on 30/07/2015 - 21:51
    +3

    @spiderman3fan: I have a simple argument. If you had done some research before coming here, I assume that you knew that Australian education isn't among the best in the world AND admission criteria are really easy (just IELTS and no tough exams such as SAT, GRE or GMAT for most of the programs/ schools - no wonder you came through a broker rather than exploring the system yourself) AND international education is an industry here. You probably also knew that there're hardly any industries here except dairy, tourism, education, agriculture and mining and job prospects are extremely limited. Despite all this, you still decided to come here to study. I am surprised now you are criticizing the whole system after being an integral part of it yourself.

    Nothing against international students, in particular, but they along with some locals, often exploit the loopholes in the country's education and immigration systems. Unfortunately, education and immigration also happen to be the country's important earning sources and economic drivers, so the country can't do much about it. But why don't international students raise their voice when they see things being apparently exploited? For example, plenty of waiters (so-called 'restaurant managers') being sponsored for 457 work visa by their employers (in most cases the settled immigrants) in return of money. This isn't really a highly skilled profession and visa isn't meant for such professions. We have enough local people who can serve those positions. This is just one example and I can give you many. Many international colleges bring extremely low-quality international students just to make money outta their fees and it seriously damages the perception and standards of our education system. Some international students choose to be a part of such exploitations of the system rather than raising a voice for the right. When we are talking about what's right and what's wrong, I expect some positive contribution from international students towards these things too. Sad!

    • explosion on 30/07/2015 - 22:14

      By the time they realize it, are on the other side of the coin or left the country. Well said that country need migrant with skill to do the job and pay tax.

  • StalkingIbis on 30/07/2015 - 22:16
    +3

    Its so hard to judge people without knowing everything about them. I am always curious about peoples stories, especially the ones who hammer other people on the net. Id love to know their status and their experience to get a better feel of how credible their comments are.

    Anyway if anyone cares… i went to QUT in QLD. studied education, we had very few international students in my degree but there were a fair amount in the science units i took. Also a couple from EU and a couple from asia, 1 or 2 from USA. From my experience, i always saw the asian students working incredibly hard to not only pass but to excel. They had a lot of ground to make up with their lack of english, and sometimes their essays or presentations were a little crap by english standards, but their arguments were usually good.

    From an institutional perspective, of course unis would want the foreign money… and if the kids fail, they have to pay up again to repeat the unit! counter intuitive for money hungry unis to let them slide through. i never felt like they were marked any easier than me. Our assessment items marking rubricks always had a coloumn for referencing, punctuation, grammar etc, and the ones who sucked got marked down here

    i work in a high school now with a high percentage of ESL (mostly refugees). as a general rule they work much harder than my other kids, and although their english is like daggers to my brain, the work they produce is usually better.

    blah blah blah

    the only time i was jealous of them was during exams when we had to leave but they got extra time because of esl…..but fair enough!

    • virhlpool on 30/07/2015 - 22:49
      +1

      I agree with your argument. But, I have studied partly in the US and I am amused to see lenient admission criteria that most of our unis and colleges follow. I mean, come on… just 6.5 bands on IELTS (which is one of the easiest standardized tests among many that other countries use as admission criteria) and you are into a bachelor's or master's degree program - not to mention, with not even proper communication skills? How can we expect a developed country practicing THIS? I went to the US and I had to appear for SAT (reasonably easier than Indian or Chinese entrance tests but much tougher than IELTS) for admission into a bachelor's degree and GRE for my admission into master's. And I had to score reasonably well in order to get into top 50 unis in the US. If we have extremely lenient admission criteria, we can't expect good quality of international students to come here. And it eventually fuels the commercialization of education system. In my opinion, excepting some handful good unis, most students come here for only two reason: 1) Easy way to immigrate eventually (main goal) and 2) They can't get admission in countries like US or Singapore or probably UK with this level of intelligence, hardwork and exam prep efforts. This is just my opinion! Here is an example of many students who exploited our system a few years back. They came to third grade private colleges in Australia (which didn't even ask for minimum attendance) to be a chef or a hairdresser. They started working in illegal casual jobs from day one without even attending the college for the minimum required number of days. Forget about their English, they had apparently no other skill to consider and most likely they were third-grade students in their own countries. They were just lured and motivated by agents to get into these courses, showing them an extremely easy route/dream to Permanent Residency of Aus as these occupations were on the shortage list then (it's a different argument that why even they had to be on shortage list at first when we had enough unemployed people with the same skills). As expected, most of these students graduated with those degrees, never became chef or hairdresser in their life and took up plenty of the casual jobs in metro cities once they managed to get their PR. They used those courses/ colleges as just a simple way to immigrate here permanently. We didn't need to import them here for casual jobs - we had enough unemployed locals available even then! Didn't our immigration system know about it? Didn't our 'so called' colleges know that they are exploiting the system for their own commercial benefits? Didn't the international students know that they aren't coming here TO STUDY? Whom to blame now?? I have no clue.

      Having said this, not all international students or all unis are bad. There are a very few good ones. :-). I don't trust any agent though. If the education system is robust and so is the job market, why do you need agents to bring students? Students should come by themselves. Most unis and colleges in the US never used agents in their history.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 30/07/2015 - 23:45
      +1

      "… and if the kids fail, they have to pay up again to repeat the unit!"

      This is a major over-simplification of the facts; at least in the 'G8' unis in Australia. At those uni's, you only get a couple of strikes and you're out, and if you fail the majority of your subjects in any given semester, your entire status as an enrolled student is reviewed; you then have to convince the uni that you should be allowed to stay/ there were unusual circumstances etc. (unless you pass supplementary exams of course, but don't get me started on those). The unis simply cannot keep making the same student pay/repeat until they actually pass, because they have quotas on the number of new intakes every year.

      Thus, there is a huge (monetary) incentive for the uni to pass the student/allow them to continue on to the next year level, rather than failing them/sending them home. Every year. That is why your statement that it is "…counter intuitive for money hungry unis to let them slide through" is simply not the reality of the situation. That is in fact exactly what happens, and they make many millions of dollars a year out of it.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2015 - 23:05
    -3

    This thread needs to be locked.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2015 - 23:22
      +1

      Lots of ESL Prodigies in this thread

    • virhlpool on 30/07/2015 - 23:28
      +1

      Why do you feel so? Due to one-sided opinions? Just curious. I don't think locking will provide any help.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 30/07/2015 - 23:47
        +1

        I don't think it should be locked at all. It's a good/active discussion, reflecting a diversity of opinions. I've personally learned quite a bit from it.

        • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2015 - 06:57

          Because it's mostly racial profiling, I'm all for open opinions, but the remarks about "don't like it leave" are of bad taste, why the hostility?

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 09:06
          +1

          @Ipiok: Well, it is just a discussion on related things and no one here is assessing OP's rights to stay in the country or leave. The concerned department will decide about it. OP is also taking views from people here and many people have given valuable feedback to him.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2015 - 23:38
    +2

    I would like to share some perspective on the mine and other international students' experience and my general understanding about the system.

    As the universities seek more private funding, they begin to operate like a business. Just like any business they seek out new students (customers) inorder to increase sales (degrees). They incentivise small companies which provides them with students in exchange for commission. Many (not all) agents care only about their commission and they will lie, withhold information and mislead students actively. It is not surprising that many of the students are unaware of what they are really getting into. These students take out a heavy loan and for repaying it they have to seek out work after they finish their degree. The loan is provided by private lenders and the interest rates are high, they often put pre-existing assets which belongs to their parents as a guarantee. When these students come there, they realise that they are being segregated into a different category of people based on laws and institutions that discriminate a local from an international student based on visa status. They would pay full price for travel while a local student gets a concession, they pay double fees.On the other hand, these waves and waves of students provide cheap and temporary pool of desperate labourers for local employers. Segregating them and not including them is basically a way of undercutting the labour standards.

    • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 00:12
      -1

      Bang on!!! The point I fail to understand though is that, why doesn't govt take any action to correct it? It is extremely harmful to both intl students and local citizens. I have seen a lot of them working for much less than minimum wages and taking up jobs which would have otherwise gone to Aussies at respectable wages. Also, businesses don't mind hiring them due to personal interests. The students don't complain as they breach the rules of max working hours in a week as an intl student anyway and businesses still accommodate them keeping their mouth shut as the whole transactions are in cash and benefit them hugely. This quality of students also greatly harm our education quality and its international perception/ reputation. Citizens lose jobs (mainly casual ones). The only guys who enjoy the whole situation are the private colleges and unis and probably businesses who hire these students at half the minimum wages.

  • captobvious on 30/07/2015 - 23:45
    -8

    Education in australia is a benefit to us australians, even naturalised ones for being Australians.

    An australian education for overseas students is a priviledge and hence you've had to pay for it and work hard towards one. The australian govt shouldnt have to guarantee you any employment post degree completion.

    The way i see it your placement in an australian university means an australian missed out on a placement. Your employment thereafter would mean an aussie missed out on employment.

    I think you should go home with your aussie degree and go work in your home country, you will benefit already from having a degree from a western country, from what ive heard youd be saught after aslong as you have the skills, motivation and drive to succeed.

    Think of it as a home ground advantage, and this is not your home.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 31/07/2015 - 00:13
      +1

      Warning — Warning : You're gonna get negged pretty badly bt. Not by me, but anyways, here's a couple of things to think about.

      "Education in australia is a benefit to us australians…"

      Seems like you're suggesting that Aussies get uni degrees for free. That's not so, we either pay for them up front, or we incur a massive ('HECS') debt to the government. Degrees that are more expensive to provide (like medicine) incur much bigger debts.

      "The Australian government shouldn't have to guarantee you any employment post degree completion."

      You're absolutely right, and they don't.

      "The way i see it your placement in an australian university means an australian missed out on a placement."

      This is not true hombre. As has been reiterated in the thread numerous times, full-fee-paying students are a major cash cow for Australian unis, so they have never needed to actually abolish 'local student' places to make room for international students; they simply expand the number of places available to include more international students.

      "Your employment thereafter would mean an Aussie missed out on employment."

      I'm inclined to agree with this; at least in a general sense.

      As I said bt you're likely to cop a few negs for your comment. Just ignore them, they're pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Thanks for contributing your thoughts to the forum, it's become a really interesting archive of opinions/information/etc.

      • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 00:29
        +1

        Doesn't govt generally limit the number of students a college or uni can have in each program (or the number of colleges itself) basis the employment availability status and economy of the country? Assuming that 80-90% students want to settle down here after getting their degrees, does govt take into account the number of 'skilled' jobs that it will need to accommodate these many students in the system or else they will eat up casual jobs and play around with the system and hence limit to the number of colleges and students in each class is very important?

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 31/07/2015 - 01:44
          +1

          "Doesn't govt generally limit the number of students a college or uni can have in each program…"

          That's an interesting and highly relevant point you raise virhl.

          If you are talking about students who must return to their country of origin after graduating as a condition of their Visa, then the answer is no, for reasons I'm sure you can appreciate; such peeps pose no threat whatsoever to the local 'jobs market'.

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 02:11
          -1

          @GnarlyKnuckles: But hardly any of those students go back as there are several visa options available for them to still remain in the country (or keep extending the stay) and eventually become PR and then citizens. So, at the end they add up to the work force - whether casual or skilled ones, whether legal or illegal ones. And therefore govt must take their number into account for everything related to the job market and economy. In fact, so far as the casual job market is concerned, those peeps pose a big deal threat as they work lower than minimum wages and for almost full week, all illegally. Businesses never complain as they gain from this. This is my opinion.

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 31/07/2015 - 03:37

          @virhlpool:

          "But hardly any of those students go back as there are several visa options available for them to still remain in the country (or keep extending the stay)…"

          This is not correct at all. The Australian government is in fact VERY strict about forcing such students to return to their countries of origin, for at least 2 years (or longer, as required by the terms of their study Visa or scholarship). Even marrying an Aussie will generally not render you exempt from such Visa conditions.

          May I ask what these "several visa options available for them to still remain in the country" that you allude to are, re international students? I suspect that perhaps you are confusing international students with some other group of people.

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 08:39

          @GnarlyKnuckles: International students typically get TR visa or 457 visa (work permit) or bridging visa and continue to stay here. The lucky ones either get 189 visa or 190 visa or regional visa - all these are PR categories. If they aren't eligible to get any of these, then they get another student visa by enrolling in other courses and extending study until they get onto some visa which will allow them stay permanently. Some lucky ones find partners and get married when they are still on the valid visa (before it expires). If one has decided to stay here, there are plenty of options available - let's not even discuss how many of them are exercised legally and in good interest of the country though.

          As I have mentioned several times, most of the students come to Aus with the intention to migrate and not with the intention to gain 'highly' reputed Aussie degrees or skills (which apparently aren't). Aus happens to be one of the easiest countries to get a degree from and eventually market using the same degree. If education was the real intention and quality was a real concern, students would definitely choose places like the US or some EU nations where standards of education/ admission are much higher and programs are highly competitive. But people in question don't choose those countries as they can't migrate there after completing their degrees and there aren't many easy loopholes in their system. I am not saying anything new - it's a well-known fact that students come to Aus with an intention to migrate later on. Otherwise why would a person with pathetic English come to a third grade Aus college and end up not attending the classes ever and working full-time in casual jobs at much lower than minimum wages (in cash) illegally?

    • ACTdealchaser on 31/07/2015 - 00:15
      +1

      Thank you for agreeing "even" benefit naturalized Australians…

      I will save my argument about why migrants could benefit a country even if just for a practically sense. Just think about how many Google and its likes hired non Americans in the US and which is more likely: it takes jobs away or provides more jobs in the US?

      I see so many "professional” students and dont feel like my tax should support this game, although unfortunately I did contribute to their dole money and commonwealth contribution of their domestic fees. I suppose more or less University spent a bit money they got from internationals to support our beloved peer Australians as well?

      Moreover I doubt OP should see it is a privilege, as it has been brought up again and again, as in a commercialized education industry, what OP owes to anyone exactly if he/she has paid for it? I feel obliged to say it is such a privileged to use an iPhone to apple under the same logic.

      Believe it or not a "western degree" made in Aus is not privileged as you think after all. People starts to know the game here and prefer degree from where it is not for sale.

    • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 00:21

      Not sure about other countries but in Asia (including India), degrees from most of the Aus unis are considered quite sub-standard. Their own education systems are very robust and very difficult to go through. I can say this at least for SKorea, Singapore, India, China and Japan. Students struggle to get jobs in those countries with these degrees when they go back (and most of them don't go back anyway), unless of course the degree is from Go8 or other good uni. Employers there already know how easy it is to get into these programs and get degrees awarded. In fact, when it comes to western degrees, employers also talk about rankings of the schools. Just it being 'western' doesn't work anymore with so much of commercialization of the education industry. So is true with the US as well but they still have much higher quality standards of admission and education with most of the unis and colleges there. Education industry is still not seen as a business/ import there.

    • renlireb on 31/07/2015 - 00:32

      The way i see it your placement in an australian university means an australian missed out on a placement.

      ?????????????????????????????????????

      please, explain how did you arrive to this conclusion. an university doesn't have a fixed number of seats every year. classes are getting bigger all the time.

      Think of it as a home ground advantage, and this is not your home.

      favourite line

      2 sentences with the word 'home' thrown around 4 times. if someone has the skills, and we need the skills it would be pretty "smart" to take them in regardless of where his 'home' is from

      let me just close this by saying that while i do believe that a country should look after its citizens, but i don't believe that a skilled worker that is needed should be turned back on the basis that he isn't from here.

  • rodinthink on 31/07/2015 - 00:31
    +2

    Bogan in comment section be like ,Dey Turk Er Gerbs

  • oO0Dam0Oo on 31/07/2015 - 00:48
    +1

    The whole student visa thing is a sham. Granted most do the right thing but I can tell you in transport so many on student visas work more than they study (in excess of their approved 40 hours per fortnight). Many bet paid Gst and then return home never to repay the government.

    Also the standard practice of paying business up $30,000 cash to grant a skilled sponsorship is common place. The government knows it happens . Makes me so angry. Our company struggles to compete with their ridiculously cheap rates because they are using illegal trading methods and getting away with it.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 31/07/2015 - 04:03

      I'll say straight up that I don't know enough about anything you've said to have an informed opinion on it, but may I ask, re this:

      "Many (g)et paid GST and then return home never to repay the government."

      Are you basically talking about Taxi drivers from India? Because if so, I am happy for them to take the GST back home with them. I've caught about 10 taxis in the last 5 years, almost all driven by Indian students (studying IT or commerce, typically), and all have been very polite and efficient. Taxi drivers do it tough here in Melbourne, particularly those who dare to work the night-shift/city-route. From my (only very basic) understanding of it, they don't make much money either, because they don't own the cab, or the license to operate it.

      Anyways, just reading back over your post I'm now thinking perhaps you're not talking about taxis… can you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this:

      "Also the standard practice of paying business up $30,000 cash to grant a skilled sponsorship is common place."

      • oO0Dam0Oo on 31/07/2015 - 09:14
        +2

        Hi mate,

        I was referring to the transport freight industry. We have many great hard working workers who do the right thing and we treat them well. As such we are well respected and have been made aware of wrongful practices by elders in the community of whom are also critical of this conduct but the fact remains it happens.

        In terms of operating a business we should all be able to compete on a level playing field. Paying cash to a student limited to 40 hours per fortnight and working them in excess of 60 hrs a week is disgusting. Running them as subcontractors driving their company vehicles and getting around paying all kinds of benefits attributed to employees. As they do not have their own tools of trade they should be considered employees. Getting paid cash, working illegal hours with these companies greatly profiting as a result. We who do the right thing lose out as a business and render it very difficult to compete with these companies severely cutting their rates as a result.

        • ACTdealchaser on 31/07/2015 - 16:14

          Hi,

          I only understand you too well.

          The incompetent gov just punished business who followed the rules.

          I work in hospitality industry before and my employer just couldn't compete with those places known for paying their staff $10 per hour…

  • neonlight on 31/07/2015 - 07:46
    +1

    Excuses. Studying here most students just want to get a PR then get whole family here from overseas. That's the truth. To do that of course you need an internship job to get somewhere. Obviously they have tighten the rules for good reasons. I see nothing wrong government changed rules and only give visa to selected applicants with the occupations we lack. Neg me all you want that's the reality.

    • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 09:10

      I would repost my earlier comment here. While most part of your comment is correct, bringing the family (siblings or parents) to Australia on a dependent permanent resident visa is almost impossible. The queue is at least 15 years long (or probably much longer) if not more. So, I don't take that point. Only person one can bring easily is the partner.

      • harkoliar on 01/08/2015 - 08:42
        +1

        Just checked website, stated up to 30 years now.

        Before I heard may be faster if you pay a bond, don't know now

  • frostman on 31/07/2015 - 08:09
    -2

    you had no opportunity to get a post-study visa unless your degree was part of the Skilled Occupations List.

    Incase you havn't realised during your studies, Aussie place doesnt need anymore IT people. They're a dime a dozen here, I won't state which ethnic backgrounds have flooded the IT market.

    Australia is probably more in needed of Nurses/Doctors (Medical professional), Teachers (education), and the list goes on.

    Sorry to say, im glad the Visa processes have been tightened

    • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 09:12
      +1

      Teachers are in over-supply at the moment. So are GPs and dentists. The country needs specialized doctors. While nurses are in demand, I wouldn't call 'nursing' a highly skilled profession. It's just about educating locals to take up that skill and get employed.

    • thetownfool on 31/07/2015 - 17:08
      +3

      Actually there's a massive oversupply of medical students which is leading to some not getting internship positions when they graduate. I hear similar stories of high number of new grad nurses unable to get jobs. There are few jobs available once you complete your specialist medical training as well (although that's not saying there is no need for more specialists, particularly in the country). As has been pointed out in another reply, teachers are also in oversupply. So that's 3 of your 'list goes on' list, although to be fair you did preface it with a 'probably'.

      I don't see the point of saying 'I won't state which ethnic backgrounds have flooded the IT market.' If you didn't want to state it you could have said nothing at all. Instead you clearly imply people of certain ethnicities are responsible for the difficulty in obtaining an IT job. Just an interpretation, not having a go, perhaps something to think about next time.

      • frostman on 31/07/2015 - 21:54
        -2

        Actually there's a massive oversupply of medical students which is leading to some not getting internship positions when they graduate. I hear similar stories of high number of new grad nurses unable to get jobs.

        hold on hold on, when you say over-supply, are you referring to the ones that can't speak English properly, or gained their degree via paying someone to do their assessments, or more commonly, buying a degree overseas and converting it here? Because we have an over-supply of idiots in all professionals. Go to St Vincent's Priv Hospital and speak to the head professor and tell him you got 50 of the top 10 surgeons and doctors from all over Europe that want a job, do you think they will be refused? we have an over-supply of idiots who've cheated their way through the system

        I don't see the point of saying 'I won't state which ethnic backgrounds have flooded the IT market.' If you didn't want to state it you could have said nothing at all. Instead you clearly imply people of certain ethnicities are responsible for the difficulty in obtaining an IT job. Just an interpretation, not having a go, perhaps something to think about next time.

        If I post it here, it will be marked as a racial slur, and I don't want to come across racist. But everyone knows whom im referring to.

        • drrrr on 01/08/2015 - 03:09
          +1

          wow, do you think it is that easy to graduate with a medical degree? there are multiple barrier exams which assess clinical and communication skills, it's not a matter of 'buying some assignments'. I actually admire the international students who made it through despite the disadvantages they faced. 'buying degrees overseas'? LOL you do realise that is illegal?

        • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 06:29

          For your kind knowledge, mate, conversion of overseas medical degrees is extremely difficult task and not very common at all. It requires the foreign doctors to take many exams after arriving here (at first arrival itself is a challenge) and go through a very tedious process to be able to practise here. It's next to impossible for a bad overseas doctor to come to Australia and start practising. So is true for any profession, but more so for doctors as the govt has to be extra careful for this profession. Please get your facts right, mate.

    • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 06:23

      And believe you me, visa processes haven't been tightened. Else it wouldn't have been possible to feed money to business owners (to the levels of cafes and restaurants) illegally and get a work visa sponsored in return for the professions and positions for which we have enough unemployed locals available within our country. If visa processes were tightened, you wouldn't see the degree selling shops (read colleges) flourish with sub-standard international students.

  • frostman on 31/07/2015 - 08:19
    -5

    I feel cheated and i'm determined to get some compensation.

    Go back to your country pal.

  • obiwanmy on 31/07/2015 - 08:33
    +1

    Sorry to sound harsh, unfortunately I dont really sympathize with OP - just because you might be granted with a 2 year visa there is still no guarantee that you will find a job - considering if your job is not in the skill occupation list there is likelihood the job you are qualified for will be limited anyway - in that case are you going to sue the government for not providing you a job ?

  • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2015 - 08:57
    +1

    Sitting on the couch with popcorn watching the show…. :D

  • brgnhunter007 on 31/07/2015 - 09:11
    +1

    Argh..

    What is it with people and their sense of entitlement?

    http://www.rhdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/carlin-p…

    Back in my uni days, one of my friends who was also an international student (just like yourself) worked his ass off and was awarded University Medal and a 10k scholarship.

    He then continued on to do his post grad,and was recruited along with one of our lecturers by a major bank. This was accomplished solely from grit and hard work.

    I'm pretty sure if you're any decent, you could secure any internship or sponsorship way before the end of your visa. Or if you were really focused in your career, you would've planned everything out and would've tried your hardest to secure your internship, sponsorship, scholarship, etc before your visa ends. But you left it to the last minute.

    What you were trying to do my friend was akin to try to get ahead in life using your parents' money instead of your own effort, and when it didn't work out, you cried and chucked a tantrum. Correction, I think that's what you are doing :)

    And no, I don't sympathize with you. If you came in here and said you've been studying hard and worked so hard to gain scholarship then when you got here the government decided to take your scholarship away without a good reason and you're now stranded with no means of surviving then I would feel really bad for you, and I think most of us will.

    • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 09:16
      +1

      While your argument has a point, in the current job market OP can't get a job or internship. It's very unreasonable to expect it when a lot of citizens and PR holders are struggling to get even casual jobs. I mean, let's be reasonable! Who would hire a person even for an internship who is on a temporary visa and it's gonna expire soon! While this is very common in US or UK, the Aus employers generally prefer citizens or PR holders even if they had to hire someone in these gloomy days. Of course, all this unless OP pays money illegally to some restaurant or a dodgy company to sponsor a work visa for him. He doesn't sound so desperate to stay here.

      • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2015 - 09:39

        Pretty simple if there is no jobs even for locals, go seek another country for employment!

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 10:10

          Or somehow manage to be in the country doing casual, illegal jobs until you get a valid permanent visa.

      • brgnhunter007 on 31/07/2015 - 11:17

        That's not my point tho.

        My point is that OP is a entitled brat that complained about not getting a visa after signing up to a bogus "study" package. One that comes with a "promise" of internship or another type of visa.

        If OP was really coming here to study, then s/he should've put in more effort. That's my point!

        As for the current job market, excuses, excuses..

        It's reasonable and logical to assume that one needs to equip oneself with better skill sets to better your chance to secure a place in the workplace. Hence, foreigners just need to work harder than the locals, to think otherwise is unreasonable and frankly naive. So, if you're in a foreign country and you're trying to get a job. There are only two options: make yourself better than the rest including locals, or do jobs that many locals avoid (crappy pay, long hours, etc).

        To not know this and complain when you couldn't get a job in a foreign country is absurd.

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 11:23
          +1

          Well, I wouldn't argue much on this but when people from different parts of the world go to the US or the UK or even Singapore, they too are foreign countries for them, right? They don't face these challenges there so far as jobs are concerned. And I am talking abt people who would need work visa sponsorship. On the other hand, in Aus even PR holders and new citizens struggle to find mere casual jobs (retail for example), set aside the formal skilled jobs. Not to mention, even Aussie fresh graduates are struggling in the same way these days. I have been there and done that. There's something with Aus job market. There are herds of newcoming people, most of them at least single degree-holders if not double, who are queuing up to at least get a chance to work in retail stores here - that too a few hours a week. How unfortunate! Now, to be fair to them, let's not say that they shouldn't have come to this place at first and gone to a country which offers easier, better and more opportunities. Well, and I am referring to people with proper English skills of course.

        • brgnhunter007 on 31/07/2015 - 11:35

          @virhlpool: Can't comment on other country but from common sense if there are heaps of candidates that are better than you in any way then you would not get hired. Simple.

          At the end of the day, you're judged based on your skills and your personality.

          I bet if you couldn't get a job here then you have buckley's chance of securing jobs anywhere else with the same standard. Do you think you have better chance in UK, US, or Singapore? Why? Because they are nicer?

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 11:42

          @brgnhunter007: Not because they are nicer but because they are better job markets (read more jobs per capita in general and higher number of quality jobs) and are more exposed to international workforce. They don't look for 'local experience' in applicants' CVs even for all jobs. Well, eventually it all boils down to the job market. When you have a few jobs and many applicants, the recruiters and HRs can afford to act funny of course. How funny it is to ask for local experience to an immigrant who has just arrived in the country after 10 years of international skilled work experience and this, even when he's willing to compromise on the level of job! How can he have local work exp if he's an immigrant? He doesn't stand a chance to work in retail or even as a cleaner since he doesn't have relevant (and again local) experience and it's so difficult to learn cleaning you know ;-) as if he has learning disabilities. You will find thousands such people struggling here if you look for them. When I went to the US to study, I doubt if I was ever asked for any sort of experience to work in Subway or 7-11 or Walmart. Those skills can be attained in a day even if you don't have already. A cover letter, CV, 'local experience', and 'local references' for those jobs???!!! Come on..

        • brgnhunter007 on 31/07/2015 - 11:55

          @virhlpool: Have you ever pondered that perhaps that those companies do need local experience because they are focusing in local market not global? Also your assumption that people would fare better in UK, US, or even Singapore would hold if they are applying for jobs where local experience is negligible. If they are applying for jobs where local experience is needed then again they would have zero chance of getting it.

          This is similar to complaining about not getting that CEO position because you never run a company.

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 12:03

          @brgnhunter007: Firstly, I am not referring to CEO level jobs. Secondly, except nurses and IT engineers, are there any jobs in Australia where local experience isn't needed? As an international degree holder and fluent English speaker, can I get a job to clean the domestic rooms if I don't have local experience - that ever in my life in Australia? I can show you 15 rejection emails for even such jobs. This is just an example. Now you know what I meant. Let's not even discuss how different other job markets are. I am just sharing my thoughts and observations - don't take them as arguments. I believe it's been a healthy discussion.

        • rompastompa on 31/07/2015 - 12:27

          Every position will say that experience is required. Training costs money, and if there is someone who already has experience, it will expedite the role. This doesn't mean that zero experience CV's get ignored, it just means that if you have two identical CV's and one has experience, the other doesn't - which one would you pick?

          If you have zero experience, then ask for work experience. They employer/HR may be more inclined to take you on for a couple of weeks of free labour, then offer you a job (Obviously not necessarily for all industries).

          It's about setting you apart from the possible hundreds of other applicants.

          Also, you'd be lucky to even get rejection letters. Hopefully they'll give some insight on what the industry is looking for.

        • brgnhunter007 on 31/07/2015 - 13:10

          @virhlpool: I quite enjoyed the discussion.

          My suggestion for you is to always request a feedback on your applications, then work on it. If you're rejected with some bogus reason, then that job is probably not for you. Would you want to work for someone who rejected you not for your skills, but simply for being who you are?

          Choose to invest in yourself, my friend. That always pays off at the end.

        • virhlpool on 31/07/2015 - 13:23
          +1

          @rompastompa:
          Rejection letters are automated replies and don't provide any insights. Feedback typically is "Mismatch of skills" or "No local experience" in 99% of the cases. I appreciate your reply but what you have mentioned isn't new and is still applicable for other countries like US, UK, Singapore, India etc. All I was saying is that it's much easier to enter job markets or change fields in those countries as compared to Aus. Just imagine a hypothetical situation where I am a retail marketing person and I want to enter e-commerce industry. Probably this dream of mine will never come true in Australia (as they will always have excuses like 'no relevant exp' or 'no local exp') while it's too common in the countries I have mentioned. In the US and India particularly, it's common to find engineers working in analytics and investment banks and management consulting and also jumping between those fields. In those countries, they rely more on basic IQ and intelligence of the person (which is apparent from the past academic records) rather than only focusing on his 'local' experience and skills.

    • spiderman3fan on 31/07/2015 - 13:15
      +2

      I never said i was guaranteed a job, what i was saying was guaranteed (which i've now humbly accepted i was mistaken in thinking) was a 2 year post-study visa to get the opportunity to look for a Job. This was not about getting any job, which would have made things considerably easier for me, it was about being patient and looking for a good internship to give me relevant experience in my field so of course i was going to explore the many different options out there until i found something the would meet my hopes, not just go for anything i see immediately for the sake of it. If the right oppurtunity didn't open up for me at the right place and 7 or 8 months, i would have just returned home.
      ,
      As i have stated many times i had no intention to settle here, an internship is a low paid position that is essentially just a learning experience, and that is what i was hoping for, a year long learning experience in an reputable establishment just to boost my knowledge of my field. I was not looking for a sponsorship to stay here permanently just a bit of experience, and clearly the government understands that this request is reasonable given that the new visa allows you to stay in the country for an additional 18 months to do exactly that, gain some low level experience to help you on your path for when you return home.

  • lightstream on 31/07/2015 - 09:56
    +1

    I did my undergrad in America. They didn't guarantee any post-graduation work opportunity or visa. You had to apply yourself AND if you got the job you had to apply/change your visa. Also, I honestly believe Australia should limit the post-grad work option to STEM grads only. What did you study?

    • frostman on 31/07/2015 - 10:16
      -1

      Whats the bet IT? lol

      • lightstream on 31/07/2015 - 10:19

        …Hospitality Management? :D

    • ACTdealchaser on 31/07/2015 - 16:17

      So how Aus attract enough students ?

      • abh_gup on 31/07/2015 - 22:53

        International marketing, G8 hype and targeting fat pocket foreign students.

  • NBAD25 on 31/07/2015 - 10:15
    +1

    Best talk to an advocate or something, the average punter isn't going to take to kindly to you, unless you start calling yourself a backpacker.

  • Cyphar on 31/07/2015 - 12:11
    +2

    You based your decision to come here on outdated information. Tough luck, really.

    If i were to take legal action against them what would be good way to start?

    And what would you claim, exactly?

    I feel cheated and i'm determined to get some compensation.

    This isn't America!

  • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2015 - 14:56
    -3

    My university is approximately one third international students (Mostly from China). Shit needs to change.

    • ACTdealchaser on 31/07/2015 - 16:16

      I know. however since domestic students and government dont want/cant to pay for a proper higher education system, what is the way out?

      • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2015 - 18:07

        DEREGULATE OUR UNIVERSITIES (after I graduate :D)

    • virhlpool on 01/08/2015 - 06:44

      It's not about intl or local students. Everyone is paying fees. I really don't mind the distribution of class/students by races or nationalities so far as they ALL are of desired standards and quality and have proven them through stringent admission criteria and English requirements. If not, no matter which nationality they are from (be even locals), they are mere customers of the degree selling shops. As simple as that. Unfortunate and sad, but true.

    • frostman on 03/08/2015 - 11:29

      lolol

  • Viderzo on 31/07/2015 - 17:15
    +1

    As a former international student (i'm indo american) at unimelb (full schollarship) and whom the Aus government generously granted a PR 12 years ago i really have no sympathy for OP. Everyone else have stated their opinion so let me state mine: first; what an entitled person, seriously. Second; even IF your grievances are valid (it is not), life is unfair deal with it. Good luck in life if you carry this attitude in suing your way when reality doesnt meet your expectations

  • thetownfool on 31/07/2015 - 17:37
    +4

    I sympathise who you OP, and from your comments you've taken the informative and instructive portions of feedback well. This reflects well on you. I think much of the aggressive feedback comes from the frustration you voiced toward the end of your post. I apologise for the overt and not so overt racism from those who've made assumptions regarding your background. The way our universities use international students to fund domestic students is a fairly complex and loaded topic, and I'm not surprised a lot of people comment with limited depth of knowledge. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert so I can't offer any advice to help.

    Not that it will make your situation better, but when I finished my degree we had many international students (primarily from the US and Canada). Medical student numbers were funded by the federal government, while intern placements in hospitals were funded by the state governments. Unsurprisingly when the federal government dramatically increased medical student numbers (many international, which made money), the states did not necessarily follow with increased intern placements (which obviously cost money), leading to some graduates not being given intern placements. The primary issue being internship is effectively a final year of training before you can be given full medical registration, so those without an internship had very limited options. No prizes for guessing that it was the international students who missed out, after spending $200,000 on a degree and studying their butts off like everyone else. They too had been guaranteed intern positions and full registration when they first signed up to study medicine here.

    • scrimshaw on 31/07/2015 - 23:11

      The same goes with law, finance, engineering, not just medicine. Over-qualified, desperate and struggling to find work, that is exactly what a lot of uni grads are experiencing atm.

      Sometimes you gotta be flexible and be on the lookout for other fields that have more opportunities; I recall reading that many STEM graduates (STEM meaning science, technology, engineering and math) don't end up doing STEM occupations. Google STEM Crisis and you'll see a lot of debate on this topic.

      My brother did science and ended up doing teaching, which is no easy job but it pays as well, if not better, than a biomed engineer (which only pays 68K a year versus a possible of 88K a year teaching science) and teaching jobs are far more plentiful.

  • mlburnian on 31/07/2015 - 18:05
    +3

    Sounds like there are a lot of local unemployed graduates on ozbargain going by the sinister replies and hostility to the OP.

    • rodinthink on 31/07/2015 - 23:29
      -2

      but dey turk er gerbs

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