Ongoing Issues with a Brand New BMW X3

Okay OzBargainers, I’ve bullet pointed a long story. Need you to tell me, what you would do if you were me.

  • Brand new BMW X3 with M Sport picked up on 1st November 2014
  • April 2015: Car develops a problem wherein its start/stop system stops the engine when the car is stopped, but does not start! This is after the car has done 4000kms
  • Car has been back at the BMW dealers workshop 5 times since, generally for periods of between 2 weeks to 4 weeks
  • Came back every single time after full testing, and 100% assurance that the problem had been fixed; multiple parts in the start stop system were replaced. I was given to understand that BMW were involved in the repair.
  • Each time, the car would run problem free for between 1 day to 10 days
  • Was also put in an unsafe situation, when the car stopped while I was performing an unprotected right turn, where you stop in the middle of the intersection, waiting for oncoming traffic.
  • On the last 2 visits, I’d already had enough and did not want the car back again, but was convinced by the service personnel that the car was 100% fixed
  • Unfortunately, there seems to be no escalation procedures within BMW, to address the stressful situation around their product that has not been fit for purpose; I’ve even had to cancel 2 weekend trips into the country, that were planned with the family.
  • The dealership holds that the product was always perfect, but that they did not follow the repair process correctly i.e. it is their fault, not BMW’s fault

Current situation: I have no faith in the car anymore. More importantly, the dealership GM cannot provide an assurance that the problem will not occur again. I am asking for written assurance if the problem recurs, I will not take the same car back again.
The dealers response is that the car is under warranty, and will continue to be “fixed” under warranty; “that’s what warranty is for”. So logically speaking, it is possible that I could be going through all this over and over again, over the next 2.4 years. Even the dealership agrees that would be the case!

The one option they can give is if the problem does recur, the dealership (without involving BMW) can look at helping me changeover into a new car, by covering “some” of the costs involved. I would still be out of pocket, and there is no indication re: what I would be up for.

Am I being unreasonable not having as much faith as I should after 100% assurance, because this is the fifth time I’ve been given 100% assurance? If they are indeed convinced the car has been fixed, would it not be reasonable to expect a written assurance ONLY for that particular fault? I’m happy to accept that cars these days are complicated pieces of machinery, and may develop other faults during and after the warranty period.

But not the SAME fault!
For the sake of brevity, I've omitted some details including the impact this has had on me, over the last 4 months.

Comments

    • -1

      Speak for yourself!
      I got mine for pennies on the dollar.

      • alright rich boy. Want a medal from Abbott?

        • Pennies on the dollar means it was a bargain, like ozbargain.

          Sheesh, are you butt hurt so bad you have to insult people?

    • +9

      probably dont drive M3s

      I'm guessing that was a typo, but funny because you couldn't have picked a model further from the OP's X3 :)

  • The one option they can give is if the problem does recur, the dealership (without involving BMW) can look at helping me changeover into a new car, by covering “some” of the costs involved. I would still be out of pocket, and there is no indication re: what I would be up for.

    All that means is the would trade this for another car, no real help or deal at all.

    Its strange that consumer laws seem to help you with a faulty tv but cars… they just keep getting fixed fixed fixed, you should be able to say no, i want my money back or a new one.
    I would make sure BMW are aware all the time, not just the dealer.

  • +18

    Start harassing BMW Australia about the problems.

  • +4

    I had numerous problems with gearbox on my golf writhing the 1st 6 months of ownership.

    Took VW to Faitr Trading Tribunal - the moderator was livid when I presented my case. She was all for ordering VW to replace my car but, VW did not turn up and a rehearing was convened.

    The 2nd time around the VW lawyer went in to see the moderator ( a guy this time) and I am pretty sure he was nobbled for he was openly hostile to my grievances and my case was dismissed.

    The consumer laws in AU favour the corporations and we must suffer in silence due to our own apathy.

    • -7

      I had numerous problems with gearbox on my golf

      Like thousands of other Australians. The DSG issues have been well documented and reported since 2008.

      Took VW to Faitr Trading Tribunal - the moderator was livid when I presented my case

      Moderators don't get livid. It's their job to remain calm and impartial.

      She was all for ordering VW to replace my car

      Moderators don't order anything. Only judges can. Moderators are only there to assist both parties to reach a resolution without having to go and waste the courts time.

      The 2nd time around the VW lawyer went in to see the moderator ( a guy this time) and I am pretty sure he was nobbled

      Why were you not in the room? Moderators are meant to see both parties at the same time?

      In my opinion there are many holes in your story and too much bias to believe it.

  • +8

    Sorry to hear of your problems. Unfortunately the so called "premium/luxury" European brands don't necessarily have reliability as one of their selling points.

    I had all kinds of problems with an Audi A4 avant. Cost me a fortune to keep fixing it, got rid of the piece of cr@p after 10 months as I couldn't bear it breaking down monthly.

    Subsequently I tell all my clients to avoid audi/Skoda/vw so they don't have to deal with engines that drink oil, transmissions that spontaneously combust, bad coil packs, window regulators, clogged oil pickups, failing DIS etc etc, so over the last few years there's plenty of sales going to everyone else.

    And isn't it nice to know bmw will "help" you changeover…. Into another Beemer. Over the years I've tried merc, audi and bmw - the only one I would go back to is Mercedes, though recently I've been enjoying Japanese reliability.

    Back to your problem, there was a guy crowdfunding the destruction of his jeep which was entertaining to follow :)

    • +3

      Typical EU corps snob attitude, think they build the best but build piece of crap, mark 10x more expensive its value and idiots will still pay for its piece of sh#~<%<t, because of its badge…service to customer is bad - pre and post sales. Like it or go next door….pick a Merc, Lexus or Infiniti. The rest is going down imo.

    • +5

      "Sorry to hear of your problems. Unfortunately the so called "premium/luxury" European brands don't necessarily have reliability as one of their selling points."

      I was trained in sales by one of the head marketing gurus for Xerox back in the 90's and was told by him that they never used to be seen as a premium /luxury car , they were nothing more than a german falcon/commodore.

      Their marketing ploy for changing peoples perception was simply to increase the price. Its expensive, therefore it must be premium /luxury.

    • that resembles to the story of Chinese billionaire who wrecked his Lamborghini as they could not service him any better, and he crowdfunded people to destroy the car with hammers and stones turned it into piece of crap and threw it at the Lamborghini car showroom.

  • Thanks PVA and Drew22. We contacted BMW complaints handling today, who confirmed any assurance will be hard, but they will touch base with the saud dealer.

    Islund, I feel your pain. Even the dealer indicated that BMW have a big legal team……

    Slknv, agree re: MB, just sold one after 6 hours of happy driving and a tranquil car owning experience

    • +7

      Don't take no for an answer, you spent bloody good money on their product and you deserve a good product in return.

      Do not let them fob you off.

  • Islund, that second moderator sounds dodgy? What did you end up doing in the end?

  • Do you have the text for the warranty? Are there any loopholes there that may support your case in taking it further legally? A minor repair vs life safety malfunction (as per your example of unprotected right turn)

  • +9

    There are "Lemmon Laws" in Victoria.

    There is a "major failure" with this vehicle - a problem that is so significant that a reasonable consumer would not have bought the car if they had known about the full extent of the problem.

    You are entitled to a refund or a new car - your choice.

    Stop messing around with the dealer, consult a lawyer and lodge a claim with VCAT now…

    • +6

      There are "Lemmon Laws" in Victoria.

      named after Jack Lemmon for his epic portrayal of Felix Ungar in The Odd Couple

      • +4

        :) Nah named after the 6 vodka and lemons i've downed at this point. You're right though I meant to say "Lemon Laws"

      • I love that movie! Also Walter Matthau's facial expressions….no words are needed for comedy sometimes.

    • -1

      lol iratepirate try posting something like that here!

  • +2

    Your car must be fit for purpose and of merchantable quality.
    It sounds like it isn't.

  • The way things stand, mathematically, there is a 1 in 5 chance that the car COULD be indeed fixed now, seeing that it wasn't really fixed in the first 4 attempts. But I'm having trouble getting an assurance that the car will be taken back, or replaced, or whatever, IF the problem still exists. It looks like car manufacturers can pretty much do what they like! Extremely frustrated!!!

    • +3

      OP, have you watched this episode of The Checkout?

      http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/checkout/LE1402H001S00

      Covers the matter of problems with new cars bought from dealers. About half way through the episode.

      • +1

        This is soooooo funny. How can you remember where to look for this? +1 .

      • i love this show how little details are fooling us around here by the big marketers

  • How you interact with the service advisors/manager seems to play a role in how your car gets sorted.

    Smile, be firm and unemotional works best..usually. Unless you have the unfortunate experience dealing with a condescending prick who thinks nothing of you unless you roll in a brand spanking new 7 series.

    Dropping a 6 pack to the tech who's been working on your car will pay dividends in the future when something else gets FUBAR'ed.

  • Thanks Warerlogged T, I will watch the episode you refer to, shortly.
    Mini2, other than my very first visit , when the car was returned with "no problem found", the service guys have been great to deal with. They're taking the blame upon themselves now, saying the car was always fine, but we messed up by overlooking a simple issue; the battery cable was loose! Seeing my that other problems were found and fide in my 4 previous visits, I just need 'out' if the same problem recurs. That's the sticking point! There is apparently no out, just the same old process that has consistently failed me over 4 months.

  • +5

    Next time consider buying a Lexus, which has the best of both worlds.

    • +1

      I second this. Running IS250 for 10 years now and still going strong. Outside warranty I had a warning lights pop up and Lexus service is willing to check it out free of charge.

      I once took an out of warranty BMW 3 series to Artarmon BMW services on behalf of a client to check some potential oil leak. The lady over the counter quoted $170 for 30min "visual" inspection. She specifically said "visual" so no computer diagnostic, just eye balling under the car. At that point I learnt BMW will bill you as much as possible with minimum work. My plan of eventually owning a M3 to fulfil my childhood dream is out the window. My client is unwilling to pay and sold it at the second hand market, another poor soul's problem.

      • -1

        So did you get to visually inspect her for 30mins too?
        Sounds like a bargain…

    • Agreed, my Toyota powered Lexus is still going strong.
      Its just not as exciting as a BMW.

      • +1

        Toyota 4 lyfe <3

  • +1

    I've had a similar problem with stop start on our brand new Subaru

    The best way I find is to get them to provide you with a hire vehicle and just leave it with them until it's fixed

    Right now there is no cost to the dealer since they bill BM every time they service your car

    After 2 months of repairs our car was finally fixed for good

  • Feel for you, it's hard to get such things fixed. Perhaps just turn start/stop off and live happily? It's not particularly useful feature anyway imho

  • +1

    Never had any problems with the Veyron so I ended up buying the Mrs on as well

  • -1

    Get a Mercedes. C class or higher.

  • Thanks all.
    Camxorocks, agree with the Merc suggestion.
    I just sold my C200 last month. Drove it for just under 6 years with ZERO issues.

    In fact, I was looking to get a 328i in its place, but changed my mind after this bitter BMW experience over the last 4 months.

  • +1

    Andyvolk, I did drive the car with start/stop switched off. While I didn't do a detailed calculation, I noticed a considerable increase in fuel consumption. And the car didn't start from standstill a couple of times as well….so had to be looked at.

    • Ok, I would just think that if it didn't start with start/stop off, than problem is in something else.

  • in this type of situation, you, the customer, need to play hard ball. no more mr nice guy. thats what the dealership has been taking advantage of so far

    go in with your demands, and dont leave until they are met. do not accept their terms.

    know your stuff before you go in, and make your demands.

    unless you do this, no will literally go nowhere.

    (all this is speaking from real world experience, ive seen brand new cars sitting in dealership workshops because the customer is fed up with a lemon, and would rather it sit at the dealership for months on end while they "try" to resolve the issue, than drive the car)

  • Aceboy884, except for the first time, I always got a loan car from the dealer; no issues there. But last week they wanted me to try my car again as it was "fixed" again, as they wanted their car back.

  • +1

    I've only just skimmed through the thread but I believe some states have lemon laws. I found the below video very interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr6IYtWbweY

  • I really like BMW sedans and sports cars, but to be honest the X3 and X5s are poorly built.

    The yanks don't have the same QC as their German counterparts.

    Sorry to hear about the problem. I'd contact the department of fair trading in your state to lodge a formal complaint. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Good luck.

  • +1

    Thanks JB1. I believe the sedans, at least the 3 series are made in South Africa still? The wagons are probably still made in Germany.

    • I think most were made in SA and I don't care what anyone else says, the quality is below the German made ones.

      You can still get German built 3 series if you order an Individual i.e. custom built), all the coupes were from Germany.

      • i thought all the Z coupes were made in USA, but looking it up it seems they changed half way and are now built in Germany.

  • +1

    Sorry for the long comment, but maybe helpful to the OP & others.
    Whilst mechanical issues are expected with any car, including some that develop issues during the pre-delivery check. But the manufacturer is required to provide you with reasonable assurance that the car will perform to its measured performance metrics. A warranty is there to cover the eventualities that are known (you know it can happen) unknowns (don't know when). I would expect the dealer to perform a detailed test and provide you with recorded information of the test they have performed. It could be possible that their test are not in real world, for example waiting to make a U Turn and the car turns off but wouldn't start upon depressing the brake. This is a serious situation as you could end up in a crash, and the manufacturer's or the dealer's fault/carelessness in fixing can result in tragedy.

    I had an E-Class (in the UK), and the fuel injectors failed causing the loss of power whilst driving on the motorway (Mercs had major issue with their injectors in 2009 / 2010). The problem across MB was so severe that ETA to fix was up to a month. I politely told the dealer that they sold me a car with known issues and my lawyer will speak with them. I had a call from the dealer few hours later to discuss the alternatives, and I ended up returning the car, and buying another from the same dealer with appropriate assurances.

    Having said the above, no car is fault free, the more electronics in a car, the more points of failure it will have.

    To answer the OPs questions, I would ask the dealer to provide a loan car until they can prove the actions they have taken to test and you can have a safe and stress free motoring, you paid the money and you deserve it. Remember that the dealer & manufacturer are both liable to provide you with a working car, so don't budge, be adamant and treat them the same as your customers to you if you are at fault.

    PS: I own a BMW 1 series and have had few minor issues in the 2 years that the car has been on the road, but both times BMW have been happy to fix them at no cost to me.

  • Thanks BQJT.

  • Buy Japanese, get over the badge, lesson learnt now I would say..

    • ^ This. Koreans make some pretty reliable vehicles too.
      Dat Hyundai Genesis is one bad ass machine and the price is fair for an electric car and the $AUD being the way that it is.

      BMW and Mercedes aren't what they use to be.

      Go for a Tesla machine or the Hyundai GEnesis.

  • I'm unsure if this is a standard on all the 'start stop' cars available but when I drove the new mercedes delivery truck at work, which is decked out with all the gadgets, it had this 'start stop' feature but it could be turned off with the press of one 'eco' button on the center console.

    Is this possible with your car?

  • If you bought your car after 2011, new Australian Consumer Laws apply.
    You have suffered a "major failure" and the vehicle is not "fit for purpose" (e.g can't take it far) and the repair times i don't think are "reasonable".

    As you can see, ACL is now extremely flexible and is better for the consumer.
    Don't accept "help" from them to move into a new vehicle.
    I would write a strongly worded letter to BMW Australia and request a "buy back" of the vehicle.
    Don't deal with this dealer anymore, you don't have to.
    You have the right to take it to anyone in the supply chain in Australia, and they have to deal with it.

  • Thanks Ps3_andy. It is possible to turn off that function, but this uses more fuel.
    It looks like the car may have been fixed now.

  • Thanks chir0nex. It appears that the car is fixed now. Probably was a loose battery cable, as they diagnosed on the 5th visit. I did get in touch with BMW, who strangely kept diverting me to the dealer and also insisted that the car was definitely fixed this time.
    Hopefully, it stays fixed this time. It has Ben going well for the last 2 weeks.

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