DickSmith: Is It Reasonable to Refund a Brand New DOA Tablet

I am trying to refund my Acer W1-810 tablet purchased in April 15 and only opened in July 15, due to the tablet does not turn on or take charges.

Dicksmith store said due to the fact that I held the tablet for more than 30 days, they can only send it to Acer for repair.

I dont want a repaired or a refurbish tablet because my tablet is brand new and according to the fair trading website my problem should be categories as a major problem and I can get refund.

Do you guys think it is reasonable for me to get refund?

ps: I have purchased this tablet from a dicksmith online sale and did a click and collect in April. I have kept this tablet aside until July as a birthday present and only realise in July during gift openning that it doesnt turn on.

There is a similar case, as per the review left on Dicksmith website, for this Acer w1-810 and that person got a refund as it is within 7 days.

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Comments

        • @rdcool:

          Late night trading is Thursday night in NSW. I am going there again tonight.

          Sorry it is here as well, got my days mixed up.

          Have you called to check if the Manager will be there though? I doubt he's going to work late-night trade…

        • +2

          @Spackbace:

          Seems Strange to me, that they need a manager to send something for RMA?
          I work in a camerastore and any of our staff can take a camera, a persons details down and send it for an RMA?

          sending an RMA doesnt really "COST" anything (other than postage) and they are obliged to under law.

        • +4

          @rdcool:

          Ok so you're happy about not getting a replacement/refund on the spot and happy to take a return.

          Now your worried about 'water damage' by the staff!?

          Anyhow If you're really worried about 'water damage' by the staff then you can return the item DIRECT to Acer bypassing the DSE staff altogether. Call up Acer and log a RMA with them. They will provide you the details for the closest repair center to you or a return address for you to ship the item back to them at.

          Problem solved. Moving on!

        • @Level380: Not really - Acer will not provide a refund. Another way to do it would be to get the RMA number direct from Acer, then tell the apparently clueless staff at DSE 'here's the RMA number, Acer have said it's dead, now I want a refund.'

          I did this years ago with dead logitech speakers (can't remember which shop I bought it from.)

        • @McFly: HELLO McFLY! I never said Acer would provide a refund! I said "Call up Acer and log a RMA with them"

        • @Level380: I know you didn't say Acer would provide a refund.
          The OP wants a refund. That's the problem with going directly to Acer.

        • @McFly:

          You realise that in this case, a refund won't allow the OP to buy the item again straight away?

        • @Spackbace: Well, that's a matter for the OP.

        • @McFly: You realise what the OP wants and what the OP will get are two different things.

          Its 3 months old, the item has been opened. Its a used item now. ACCC/ACL states a repair is a valid option for a unit that becomes faulty.

          ACCC also states that a a refund for change of mind isn't required. Have a read of

          https://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/c…

          For example, you may not be required to provide a remedy if a consumer:

          simply changes their mind, decides they do not like the purchase or has no use for it
          discovers they can buy the goods or services more cheaply elsewhere
          has damaged the goods by using them in a way that was unreasonable.

          The OP is the first one now. Brought it, and has now changed his mind. If it was working it would be still fit for purpose etc.

          I have a STRONG feeling its also the last one on the list too, the OP has been using it and gotten it wet! As he keeps saying over and over that DSE might water damage it on him if he RMAs it via them. Which is why my comment was to return/RMA it directly to Acer for repair.

        • @rdcool:
          When retailers send electronics for assessment, they have to fill in forms detailing the condition of the device. You can just ask that they write that the water damage indicators haven't been tripped, and describe the condition of the tablet. You should get a copy of that anyway.

  • +1

    You bought it on sale for a birthday several months away. I'm sure DS don't care about the circumstances surrounding every sale. Like every other retailer they have policies to protect themselves. Your story is probably genuine in a basket full of hundreds of bullsh*t stories they receive every day.
    You probably spent a total of 5+ hours trying to get this resolved and on this forum. Also another $20 on petrol. You could have made enough money in that wasted time to buy a new one. You opened it after 30 days so they're offering you the next alternative. Just take it and let's all get on with life.

  • +1

    Buy another unit brand new (keep it) and return the faulty unit the following day..
    Problem solved.

    • Genius.

    • That only works if they don't record the serial numbers.

      • now you're left with two garbage acers

        yuck

  • +1

    Why is ther ssuch a need to gather everyone's differing opinions on this. Just read the Australian consumer rights online, show to dick Smith get your rrefun, simples.

    It well known that most people don't understand or believe in consumer rights, so it's pointless asking. That's why we still get crap service like this.

    • +1

      ACCC states that a a refund for change of mind isn't required. Have a read of

      https://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/c…

      For example, you may not be required to provide a remedy if a consumer:

      simply changes their mind, decides they do not like the purchase or has no use for it
      discovers they can buy the goods or services more cheaply elsewhere
      has damaged the goods by using them in a way that was unreasonable.

      The OP brought it, and has now changed his mind. Other than the device not trying on, it meets all his requirements of purchase. So its a 3 month old device that needs to go in for warranty.

  • +2

    At my work a DOA is considered when we turn on the device and it had a major fault or failure. We recommend that we set the device up in store to minimise the chance of something going wrong so we can swap it straight away. If the customer comes back within 30 days that is classed as an ELF (early life failure) which then needs to be sent back to the manufacturer for testing if the fault cannot be verified in store by a certified technician.

  • +2

    the problem is that anyone can say "oh I didnt open it for 3 months whatever"

    i agree that the OP should test it the day he bought it, then there wouldnt be any argument

    people not opening their stuff on the day they bought it isnt normal, even though I understand it, the stores wont

    side with DSE here, OP made his own problems

    • -4

      Seriously, how many quotes and links to the ACL does it take for people to understand their rights???

      • I linked you to one saying DSE doesn't have to do a refund. Whats you link McFly!?

        • +1

          Point to the fact that he's changed his mind. You seem to be reading a lot into what he's said and making up conclusions with no basis in fact. The fact is the unit is defective. The fact is the ACL deems it a major failure and gives him the right to insist on a refund if that is what he wants. He never said he changed his mind. He never said he got it wet. Your link is irrelevant.

        • @endotherm: buys item, now trying to return it as not needed now 3 months later is a change of mind.

        • +1

          @Level380: No, it is not. Can you point to anywhere that defines that returning after 3 months == change of mind??? As I said, you are reading into things and convincing yourself of the facts as you wish them to be, not as they are. Please point to where he said "as not needed now". You are the only one saying that.

        • @endotherm: How is returning a item for a refund NOT change of mind?

        • +1

          @Level380: Change of mind would be returning a fully intact and working unit on the basis that he no longer wanted the product, or was suffering buyers remorse or no longer liked the colour etc. That is, there's nothing wrong with the product, but he just wished to get his money refunded in return for the product. In this case, the OP wanted to keep the product, but it was such a lemon that he wants to return the unit as it is defective. He could have had it repaired, but I agree with him that the solution is not acceptable, in that he has paid for a brand new working product in perfect order, and that is what he wants. I would not be satisfied knowing I have paid good money for a perfect product, knowing someone has had to peel one of these things apart and reassemble it from spare parts. As someone who has repaired these things, and had others repaired for them, they are never the same and there is likely to be some tell-tale sign of replacement parts or tool marks etc. I would always know it wasn't in factory-perfect condition. If I wanted a refurbished product (which is what it is if it has to be repaired), I would have paid for a refurb. I don't have a problem buying refurbished products, but I buy them in the full knowledge that it is a refurb and at an appropriately reduced price.

          So to summarize:

          • returning a product with no fault = change of mind.
          • returning a product with a fault = refund.
        • -1

          @endotherm:

          I'll correct your typo for you

          returning a product with no fault = change of mind.
          returning a product with a fault and not accepting a repair after 90 days of ownership = change of mind.

          If he didn't wait 90 days from buying to returning a DOA product, then he would have got it swapped over on the spot no problems. There are two issues at play here. You seem to skim over the fact its now 90 days old, no matter what way you try to spin it, the product is now 90 days old. Used or not, its still 90 days old.

          Put it this way, if the guy used it for 90 days and then it stopped working, do you think they should get a refund or a warranty claim?

        • @Level380: Go and read the ACL and stop trying to twist things to suit your warped view of how things should be! 90 days has nothing to do with anything. If it burst into flames 300 days later, would you accept that it has to be repaired? You are still entitled to a replacement or refund under the law! Ultimately it is the manufacturer that will be carrying the burden for this. DSE would normally swap it over from their stock within the first few weeks after it was purchased (which retailers are not obliged to do, but they do it as a good-will gesture). Otherwise they will contact the manufacturer, say they have a lemon that the customer wants refunded, and Acer will have to provide the refund. Under the ACL, DSE are obliged to act as intermediary if the purchaser goes to them for a refund. As it turns out that arrangement is exactly what is happening in this case. Nobody is saying he will get cash on the spot immediately upon returning a defective item.

        • -1

          @Level380: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/203778#comment-2921201
          Read that post and the link - it's the answer to life, the universe, and everything. OK, maybe not all that but certainly an answer to the OP and how he is entitled to a refund.

        • @endotherm: Oh god you won!!! You know everything!!!!!!! I'll withdraw from this as you know what they say about fighting with trolls and idiots on the internet!

        • @Level380: That's the spirit! (Although I don't think endotherm knows everything. Everything about the ACL maybe…)

        • @McFly: You know everything too McFly… So don't feel left out!!!

        • @McFly: You continue to miss something entirely here. In the case of that guys Macbook, Apple had ALREADY assessed the product. In the case of the OP, an assessment can only be made by someone qualified e.g. an Acer technician, not a DS employee on minimum wage. DS AND OP have the right to have the product assessed first. It must be assessed to determine if the fault it major or minor. OP is NOT entitled to a choice of refund, replacement or repair UNTIL the product has been assessed AND it is determined to be a major fault. The definition of a 'major fault' can be argued by OP but the key here is that it still needs to be assessed first.

          Still don't believe it? Call a consumer protection representative in your state (e.g. in WA, speak to someone in Consumer Protection at the Department of Commerce). Pretend your OP or even better, pretend you work for DS. It'll take you 5 minutes.

        • @LlamaLlamaLamp: It wont turn on or charge. If you can think of a more major fault than that (other than it causing damage to people/property) I'm all ears.
          Also, what endotherm said.

  • +2

    Please note ACL introduced in 2011 covers all this, it is similar to buying christmas toys in August and someone opening them on Christmas day and it is found to be faulty. For this same reason Harvey Norman I believe 2 years back were fined millions by ACCC for false interpretaion of the ACL. DO a search and also check the ACL (Australia Consumer Law) website

  • So… OP… did you visit DS last night?!

  • +2

    While the right is there according to ACL, how can you/DS prove that OP hasn't open it for 3 months, and not that the item has been used for 3 months, nicely kept in mint condition and it stopped working.
    ***I'm not saying the OP did, but it is a possibility that cannot be ruled out, and very hard to prove. ***

    Looking from the seller's perspective, as it is hard to prove, so DS did offer for a repair which is within the 12 month warranty.

    • Sigh. There's no need to prove anything - other than the unit is dead, which is in process as per OP below.
      If it is dead then the OP is entitled to a refund (or replacement.)

      • So if it was 'dead' 11 months into the 12 month warranty, they should refund on the spot too?

      • I respectfully submit that you're confusing consumer rights under the ACL with general insurance cover.

  • +4

    As planned, i visited the Dicksmith store last night and saw the manager finally.

    We agreed to send the tablet back to Acer for assessment. He asks me to check back with in a week time to see if the results has return.

    Once we have the result, then he will be able to give me a more definite option.

    I do see on my Dicksmith Solvup case note here that it says "Does not want refurish units. Only want brand new unit/refund".

    Will keep you guys posted next week!

    • YAY… Finally!!!!

    • So, how'd you go?

      • He asks me to check back with in a week time

        (I assume should read 'in a weeks time.')

        • I know. He went in on the night of the 23rd. Today is the 30th. Hence asking if he's heard anything a week later…

  • After all that - Hope it's not just a software glitch fixed by a forced restart key/factory reset! ;-)

  • +1

    It amazes me how many people on OzBargain in general have difficulty understanding their rights under the consumer law. This segment from ABC's The Checkout should be a sticky thread on the site, and be referred to in the first instance by people wanting to return goods. It is a concise and simplified explanation of your rights in an easy to understand format.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE8BB-ioNRw

    • Good find edotherm. Great video.

    • -6

      Listen to this…
      I told my son about how "there's a thread on OzB where someone bought a tablet and it died three months later."
      His immediate response? "He should get a refund!"
      Then I said "but people are saying it's outside DSE's 1 month DOA period."
      Response: "But that's just an extra warranty from DSE!"

      He's 11 years old.

      • +3

        Well I asked my dog to bark once for a refund and bark twice for DSE return to manufacturer for assessment and review. He barked twice!

        • ankor well done for the stupidest post on this thread - quite an achievement!

        • +3

          Oh the irony.

        • @ankor: Apologies - I'm guessing I took that the opposite way!
          In that case it was the best post!

        • +1

          @McFly:

          Well I'm not entirely sure where you stand on the matter. From my read, it seems that you want the retailer to reimburse the OP on the spot without any investigation whatsover. This is not the correct approach to take.

          Asking an 11yo for his opinion on consumer guarantees makes as much sense as asking a dog for his opinion on the same.

        • @ankor: Oh, turns out I was right in the first place.

        • @McFly:

          So you think that the OP is entitled to a refund under the ACL even if (hypothetically) the OP was lying and actually dropped the tablet and caused it to stop working?

        • @ankor: Of course not.

      • lol neg'ers are you so upset at being shown up by an 11yo?

      • +3

        Is 11 years too late for a refund?

        • He's no more faulty than you are (or any of us for that matter.)

      • Why the negs?

        • -1

          It seems people aren't interested in minor details like facts, laws…

  • Would any of the credit card insurance offers apply in this case?
    Amex has one for purchase insurance and refund insurance, the former relating to broken or stolen items within 90 days and the latter, is for refunds for unused items…

    • -1

      If the OP used on of those cards, except for
      a) from memory (at least with my card) it's a $300 excess, and
      b) as those who understand the law here have said, the OP is due a refund (if product is dead), so why bother with going down that path?

  • good luck DSE is beyond hopeless at this stuff, almost identical sitch but without the 90 days thing i brought it online and was stuffed around so much over the course of about 12 months that i ended up just copping it with me vowing never to buy from DSE again. promised refunds that never came, attempted repairs, losing the item they cant refund it now because its lost all this sort of nonsense reminded me of a insurance company then it just turned up randomly in the post about 6 months after i gave up still not working and it has sat there mocking me lost in the back of the cupboard somewhere ever since.

    • What the - did they actually lose it and then basically tell you 'bad luck it's gone'?!

      • Similar thing in that USB port was faulty so could not charge it, happened about 2 weeks into ownership. After much messing about they said they would refund it, when the refund never came i called them back and they said that they did not refund only repair items and the item was repaired by the manufacturer and sent back to me, i had never got it obviously and went backwards and forwards with them for months as they actually had received it but could not find the dispatch for it, finally they agreed to refund it again but again it did not get refunded and i just gave up. In hindsight i should have just called the dept of fair trading or my credit card company straight away.

        When it did turn up it was in the same packaging i sent it to them in, they never even attempted to repair it.

        • Dodgy Shipping Experience!
          Unbelievable.

  • +1

    For future reference having dealt with this on the retailer side, an option is to contact the manufacturer in regards to the issue and go through their troubleshooting steps, eventually escalating to a team leader or manager to authorise a return authorisation where you would print out a letter/note.

    Take it back to the shop, shop calls the manufacturer and gets a confirmation that this is legit, takes your letter/note and processes the refund.

    Keep in mind the path the OP chose above is what I would normally recommend especially in this time frame, but it is worth a go.

  • +1

    @LlamaLlamaLamp: The ACL doesn't include anything about "having the item assessed" or "assessed by a qualified technician". All it means in the real world is that the consumer and the seller agree that it is a major fault. In this case nobody has disputed that it is a major failure — it doesn't work at all. In that case it is the OP's choice what remedy he wants.

    You have the right to return goods if it isn't of acceptable quality. What's "acceptable quality" isn't about them, it's about what the consumer thinks, or what a reasonable consumer, aware of the goods' condition would find acceptable (ACL S54(2)). A product is acceptable quality if it is safe, free from defects and durable.
    https://youtu.be/uE8BB-ioNRw?t=2m5s
    Clearly the OP has the right to return the product all on his own without "having it assessed" etc. if he feels it isn't acceptable quality.

    In terms of what remedy he is entitled to:
    https://youtu.be/uE8BB-ioNRw?t=5m28s
    If you're returning something and you think it is so unacceptable that you wouldn't have bought it in the first place, then it's YOUR CHOICE, not the store's whether you get a refund or a replacement.

    As I said before on page 1,

    If you elect a refund, it could come from either the retailer or manufacturer. What you are probably finding here is the retailer would normally just replace DOA items in the first weeks/month as a matter of courtesy, and after that would pursue replacement/exchange/repair/refund with the manufacturer.

    What DSE have told you seems to be valid, that they can only send it to Acer for you. DSE and you can insist on a refund from Acer if you elect that option, as it is a major failure and you are not willing to accept a repaired or refurbished unit…

    In this case, the OP is seeking a refund or replacement from the manufacturer, DSE is acting as middle-man in this arrangement as required under the ACL. As Acer haven't even seen the unit to agree with the OP's assessment that it is a major failure, DSE have returned it for action. Call that "having it assessed" if you insist. This is exactly what is happening and is consistent with the ACL.

    If you were to buy the same Item, got home and find it didn't work and went back to the store the same day, I'm sure the same DS employee on minimum wage would be quite able to agree that it doesn't work and replace the goods and organize a refund.

  • +1

    Recently went through a similar situation. Had a juicer that one day decided to start pouring out smoke. This was after about 5 months of use. I contacted the manufacturer, who gave a warranty number (I believe this makes the process much easier for the store). I returned it to the store and requested a refund, and they obliged.

    Moral of story: even if you did take it out on day 1, and it died 3 months later, that's still a major fault. You're therefore entitled to the choice of repair or refund. End of story, DS have no say.

  • Update: After multiple follow up calls to the Dicksmith store to track the status of Acer's assessment result, all i get from them was "Sorry, no update yet. Maybe a few more days".

    Today, Friday, 7/8/15, i called Acer directly and Acer said that the tablet is working again after they have replaced the battery and reconfigured the systems. Acer has also confirmed that there is no physical or water damage on the tablet and the repaired tablet is now on its way back to the Dicksmith store.

    Question:
    Do you think the assessment outcome would grant me strong ground for refund?

    Should i wait for the tablet arrived back to Dicksmith store to visit the store to ask for refund? Or just go and ask for refund now?

    • +1

      What happened to your note and original wish of "Does not want refur[b]ish units. Only want brand new unit/refund"?

      They appear to have gone ahead and repaired the unit and replaced the battery against your wishes. They are returning the unit to your DSE store to dispose of the unit by returning it to you. Are you happy with that? There is nothing wrong with that if you want to accept that, and the repair is properly done. Completely up to you.

      At the moment, you have asked DSE to ask the manufacturer for a refund on your behalf. They decided to give you a different solution and ignored your original claim. I would suggest it is time to refer the matter to Consumer Affairs in your state and have them chase it up for you.

      I'd say you are still within your rights to insist on a refund. If you bought a shiny brand new car, and they delivered it and the motor didn't work, would you be happy if the dealership said they can fix it, by pulling out the old motor, repairing it, getting it working and putting it back? It's hardly a brand new car any more, and if you wanted a repaired, worked-on car you would have bought one for a lower price in the first place.

    • +1

      If you want a refund, insist on that.
      No need to wait for the (unwanted) tablet to go anywhere. More than enough time has passed, and it's been well and truly proven to be a major fault and not caused by you.

      • So?…

        • OP?…

        • +2

          OP, you are active on OzB but not updating us here - why?

  • -1

    If you are genuinely nice, calm and not a dick(smith) about anything, I'm sure the manager will understand and give you a refund of at the very least a credit on the repaired tablet.

    But by law, they do not HAVE to refund your unit. So just keep that in mind when you ask them for a refund.

    Things like "I really am not comfortable with this product anymore and have no faith in the brand, IS IT POSSIBLE to get a credit or refund?"
    asking "IS IT POSSIBLE" is critical, because when you flat out say "I would like a refund" staff and managers are less inclined to do so if they don't have to by-law. If you ask if its possible, they are doing you a favour, and everyone like doing someone else a favour if they can.
    If they say no, stay on path but be polite, explaining your feelings towards the product, and don't be pushy about the refund, and after you explain yourself again, say something like " is there anything you can please do to help me out here?"

    Worst case scenario is you get a credit so you can buy something else in dicksmith. Or any gift card, some stores still have woolworth gift cards, so that's an option.

  • Update:
    11 Aug: I received a sms notification saying that my repaired tablet has returned to Dicksmith store.
    12 Aug: I go to store and explain my situation (politely and calmly) to the "supervisor" in charge at that time. No matter what i ask or say to this person, he keep repeat the same line "Sorry, there is nothing we can do. You have to contact to head office for further assistance". I tried to get him to find me someone who can help me further and he said the same thing. After wasting 15 mins of hearing the same response from him, i then ask him, which number and department i should call and he said (in exact words) "Sorry, i cant tell you, you need to check the Dicksmith website". I waste at least 30 mins in the store and did not get anywhere. This was the worst customer service i got ever.
    13 Aug: I called Dicksmith support and they took my details&comments and said they will pass them onto the "Customer Liaison Team" to handle. A representative from will call me back within 24 hours.
    14 Aug: After not receiving any call back from the Liaison Team, i called Dicksmith support and ask them to transfer me directly. I got through and a representative took my details&comments and he said he will communicate with Acer and get back to me within 48 hours.
    19 Aug: After not receiving any call from Dicksmith, i called and got told that this Liaison rep is sick and i need to check back later.
    20 Aug: I called again and this Liaison rep is still sick, and the rep i am speak with (in the same Liaison team) cant help me because my case detail is with the sick rep.
    21 Aug: i called again and i got through to my case rep. But he dont seem to have my case details (why am i not surprised!). I have to explain my issue again with him, but this time he straight away (with a rude tone) say that "Your issue is a minor issue. It is not a major issue. If you wanted to contact a third party for resolution, then just go ahead!".
    23 Aug: Gone to store, collected my repaired tablet.
    26 Aug: Took photo of everything and raised a Fairtrading complain against Dicksmith for not fulfilling consumer guarantee.

    • How about doing what you should've done from the start, when you weren't happy with DS's service and call Acer? Since they were the ones who did the repair they can help answer any questions/grievances.

      Link to Warranty Card

      Would've been in the box for the laptop.

      Has all the necessary info.


      I still don't understand why you wanted a refund from the start, when a refund wouldn't have bought a replacement laptop for the price you paid.

      • It was a Acer Tablet - W1-810. After seeing many people having the same/similar issues and leaving negative feedback within Dicksmith's website, to save myself further trouble, i think it is better to get a refund and get something else.

        Also, when i try to find my tablet within Dicksmith, the link can no longer be found, maybe this is only way they can do to take down the negative feedbacks.

        • Also, when i try to find my tablet within Dicksmith, the link can no longer be found, maybe this is only way they can do to take down the negative feedbacks.

          Or maybe they don't sell it any more?

        • @Spackbace:
          Maybe.

    • Sounds like DSE support is run by Basil Fawlty!
      You've been way too nice with them after this farce.
      Did you ask to speak to a manager?
      Also, why did you pick up the tablet?

  • Anyone has any past experience with NSW Fairtrading, what happens next?

  • if they can access the tablet it should have a boot log of what days it has been used?

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