I come from non-English speaking background my written and verbal skills are not perfect but I believe they up to the standards when I did my IElTS test couple of years ago to get my permanent residency I got overall band of 7.5. I am working for non profit organisation as part of my job I have to write reports at the end of the month. Every time when my boss is asking me to write reports she mentions at the end not to worry about my English when writing report. I have asked many times if my English is not good enough or need correction she always says no it's good, I have no problem with your English. I don't understand why she has to say it each time then. Is she racist or just being nice?
It is okay for your boss to say "it's okay even if your English is not perfect?"
LGuilty Flamez on 25/06/2015 - 17:06
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they up to the standards when I did my IElTS
As Heizenberg said you must be 99% ok. If I were you, I would've written the above statement like this they were up to the standards when I did my IELTS
I guess your manager is pretty happy with you and your work and she is not being racist according to me.
don't you think that 'were' was shorten in this case? same as when you write reports, such as, Mr. J served by … ? or Mr J.'s comment written in foreign language?
if let you do it then must be ok with it. if you have a problem with it have a chat to him about it.
I have asked many times if my English is not good enough or need correction she always says no it's good, I have no problem with your English. I don't understand why she has to say it each time then. Is she racist or just being nice?
If you ask same question again and again, she will give you same answer every time. So I guess nothing wrong from her side and neither she is being racist.
Me fail engrish? That's unpossible!
Unpossible is a perfectly cromulent word.
What a tool
Davo93 do you know the multiplication tables? Long division?
This guy is the racist one. The quote is English not Engrish
He's obviously a neo nazi
You got me. I am the one. The racist one.
Hilarious! I almost choked. Funniest thing on the internet since about 2006 :)
No it's not racist, it's the same as telling someone that is not very good at maths that their maths is not perfect.
Subjectist!
thats racist against asians
Hmm. It would be annoying/frustrating if she is saying it repetitively, each and every time she asks you to write a report. It's good that you've then asked her many times if your English is not good enough (that's naturally the response anyone would have to such a 'hint' or comment such as the one she has included) - however it is rather contradictory of her to then say that it's good and she has no problem with it. What exactly would she like then? You're showing initiative in wanting to improve and meet a standard that is required - that is good. It doesn't help that she isn't guiding you honestly in what the standards might be. Perhaps she is just being nice and in turn (inadvertently / not purposely) making you feel unsure of yourself rather than what she's intending to do, which is making you feel at ease with your current skills.
So perhaps there is no malice / racism OR patronising 'just being nice' stuff going on here. Maybe it's just poor communication or miscommunication. Perhaps you could express to her what you've expressed here? Ask her why she needs to always add "don't worry about your English" when giving you reports? (ask non-aggressively of course, try not to assume the worst yet). Explain how it makes you feel and how you've asked if your English is not good enough (and why you've asked that - you are clearly a humble person, you are happy to be corrected if need be). Etc etc.
I don't think a bunch of strangers here on the internet can truly tell what she really might intend by her comments. People say things for a variety of reasons. She may not even realise the way you interpret her comments, or she may indeed be having a bit of a dig. Who knows. By approaching her, at least you'll sort it out properly and with real clarity, right? :)
So perhaps there is no malice / racism OR patronising 'just being nice' stuff going on here. Maybe it's just poor communication or miscommunication. Perhaps you could express to her what you've expressed here? Ask her why she needs to always add "don't worry about your English" when giving you reports? (ask non-aggressively of course, try not to assume the worst yet). Explain how it makes you feel and how you've asked if your English is not good enough (and why you've asked that - you are clearly a humble person, you are happy to be corrected if need be). Etc etc.
I agree. She might be saying "it's good enough, and not to worry about it" because she feels Ami111 thinks it's a problem and may be stressed about it.
If Ami111 is constantly asking, it may create a problem where there isn't one. Perhaps word it differently - 'Here are the reports, please give me some feedback to better my work.'
Perhaps she thinks you're insecure, which is why she says it so frequently. Since you've asked her many times if your English is good enough, she's interpreted it as insecurity, even though you only ask because she says it first, might be a circular thing.
Exactly this. Although poor english would annoy me… lol
She is simply showing empathy. You have raised your potential poor English many times, so she says don't worry. And she confirms everything is OK.
I think you are overly sensitive.
Your English may not be up to scratch but it sounds like she is fine with it and is probably just letting you know so that you don't worry about the little things.
She is probably more interested in the substance of your reports rather than the grammar.
"not to worry about my English when writing report"
Maybe she perceives that you might otherwise spend a little extra time trying to produce perfect English so she is saying not to bother. In other words she is trying to say that the substance is far more important to her so she would rather you invested your time in that.
This +1000
English is the stupidest language in the world. I can't believe anyone could learn it and be perfect in it as a second language - many native English speakers and writers can't even manage it.
Why would racism even enter your mind?
Yeah agreed
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but people get way to sensitive about it sometimes and jump to conclusions.
English is the stupidest language in the world. I can't believe anyone could learn it and be perfect in it as a second language - many native English speakers and writers can't even manage it.
lol +1
Ya I think I am over reacting but its really annoying when she says that I have been bullied at my previous job because of my race i think it left a big scare in my brain
are you suggesting that in any other language, there are no literacy issues with native speakers of that language??
Actually English is an easy language to learn, there's much less grammar than say French, German or Russian.
Think its popularity! Think about its roots. English is a mix mostly of German with some French (aka Latin). But with less formal grammar.
Most native english speakers are even quite unaware of grammar rules, i.e. there is not gender or accusitive, dative or complex future tenses.
Whats more difficult about English is the written form as words are not phonetic.And written English is exactly what we're discussing :-)
personally, I found Japanese very easy to learn.
though reading it is relatively difficult - with kanji (pictograms), katakana ("alphabet" for foreign words), hiragana ("alphabet" for domestic words.
though katakana and hiragana being perfectly phonetic makes it easy.I worked as a English teacher in Japan for 4 years. all Japanese school students learn English. though mostly it is learned for passing written exams. I found that whilst most of my students were extremely proficient in written English their spoken English was extremely lacking and at times non-existent. I remember one student who had a degree in English literature however she could barely speak English.
the disparity between spoken and written English is befuddling for many non-native speakers.
Yep.
I learned Japanese as an adult. It's about 2000 percent more logical and consistent than English.
At my peak proficiency I'd still have needed years and years of additional intensive study to fool people into thinking I was a native Japanese speaker in a written report.
It's fine not to sound exactly like a native speaker.
Like this " Why do we call a building a building when its already built"?
After reading all the comment it made me feel better about myself I really appreciate all those nice comments from all of you, from now on I won't worry too much about her comment and will only focus on my work.
I dunno why someone would neg ur comment, I'll + it.
To bring balance to the force.
(Wasn't me though)
I think you should stop asking her :)She sounds like a nice lady who would tell you if there was a problem.
It's not about race at all, managers will always be very picky about language… even if it's technically perfect, everybody has their own preference on how something should be written.
ahhh managers. can't live with them, can't get promoted without them :P
English is the stupidest language in the world. I can't believe anyone could learn it and be perfect in it as a second language - many native English speakers and writers can't even manage it.
+1 well said.
I recently did a group assignment with some international students who had the same concern as the OP. I told them exactly this.
Tell him/her: Thank you, yours isn't bad either. :D
First thing I would learn to improve would be the use of a comma.
Thank you, smell things can make huge impact :)
Dunno about others, but I loled at this typo.
lolled
Twas so funny, yet so poignant.
Amii11, from your original post, it looks like you make small errors mostly with verb tenses and articles. Just small errors but well, they are still there despite you being perfectly clear in your writing.
I will write out your original post below and then again adding adding in those few things to demonstrate;I come from non-English speaking background my written and verbal skills are not perfect but I believe they up to the standards when I did my IElTS test couple of years ago to get my permanent residency I got overall band of 7.5. I am working for non profit organisation as part of my job I have to write reports at the end of the month. Every time when my boss is asking me to write reports she mentions at the end not to worry about my English when writing report. I have asked many times if my English is not good enough or need correction she always says no it's good, I have no problem with your English. I don't understand why she has to say it each time then. Is she racist or just being nice?
I come from a non-English speaking background and my written and verbal skills are not perfect, but I believe them to be up to the standard required when I did my IElTS test a couple of years ago, to get my permanent residency. I got an overall band score of 7.5. I am working for a non-profit organisation and as part of my job I have to write reports at the end of the month. Every time, when my boss asks me to write a report, she mentions at the end not to worry about my English skills. I have asked many times if my English is not good enough or needs correction but she always says "no it's good, I have no problem with your English". I don't understand why she has to say it each time then. Is she being a racist or just being nice?
I am not trying to be picky, just demonstrating the errors that stand out to an educated native speaker.
I hope it helps a little.Wow! Very impressive as I have mentioned before my English is not perfect I grew up in a non English speaking country. I am doing all I could to improve my skills. Thank you
One big problem that people whose first language is an Asian language have is that they forget to use articles, namely "the", "a" and "an". Many Asian languages do not use articles and in fact they are not really necessary. Unfortunately, English and most European languages do use them and your English writing looks poor without them.
It would be a good idea to have a look at your English text book about the use of articles or "a", "an", "the". If you can get these right, your English will look no worse than many native English speakers.
I have written this intending to be helpful, not to criticise. I am critical of the English language itself and have often said "A language is a set of rules for speaking and writing, but English is more a set of exceptions".
@inose:
ThirdRonnie noted that some people from any race or nationality who have an Asian language as their first tongue sometimes share a problem with the use of articles. The second sentence notes this is quite a reasonable error, as articles are absent in many languages, and in some ways superfluous even in English.
They then note that people can judge the quality of writing on this omission.The second paragraph offers some good device for people of any background having this problem.
The final paragraph unequivocally sets the tone to be caring and helpful, trying to avoid any miscommunication that can happen in the written word, especially in a language other than your first.
And you respond with a veiled sneer about Asian racism? That is a bit ungenerous.
Ami111, this is intended purely as a constructive comment. I think more accurate usage of commas and punctuation would really enhance the clarity of your writing. King Tightarse did a great job there and you can see where he's inserted additional punctuation when he corrected what you wrote.
I know from first-hand experience how hard it is to write in another language - so keep it up, I'm sure you'll keep improving.
no offend to OP but if you got 7.5 overall I really think it is over the standards. Not all or many of English ppl can get a 7 or 7.5 for reading and writing. My english teacher once said she got 7.5 and she was so happy about it.
Get a new english teacher!
I am a Canadian doctor working in Australia and am a native speaker. I was asked by immi to do my IELTS and scored only an 8 out of 9. For some reason, I got a 7 in writing but 9s in everything else.
The IELTS is not indicative of one's ability to utilize English, from what I saw. The measurement is far too subjective.
Onto the OP, I can see quite a few mistakes in your writing that would be looked down upon if writing technical or published reports within a corporate or business setting. I would highly recommend brushing up on your use of articles, punctuation and pronouns if you want to get past this issue. I can see you are sensitive to criticisms of your use of English, but those criticisms, in this context, appear to be constructive and you should try and take it as such.
I think she doesn't want you to spend too much time editing the report just to make your English perfect.
"I have asked many times if my English is not good enough or need correction"
-This is probably why she keeps repeating it
You'll get there. Just keep trying. Not even Austrlian borns speak perfect Ingrish.
That's coz we're in straya!
Dont get me wrong - i come from non- english background too, english is my third language, not even second. But i learned one thing - when people ask you where you are from and after your reply they add that your english is perfect, they lie. Your english is crap.
Having said that, although your english is good enough, your ability to use this language should not be under discussion. If it is in question in any way - its a bell…
sorry if it sounds harsh, do not want to offend you, we are in the same boat)))I'm struggling with the concept of a third language. Isn't it just another second language?
Possibly)) not sure to be honest. but since english is the third language i can speak, i call it "third")))
You said you asked her repeatedly about your English, she thinks it's a big concern for you, she reassures you, nothing nasty!
I'm not a native English speaker either and there is a guy at work who pulls the same BS racism card because he's Malaysian and he reckons that's why people pretend not to understand him and trust him. The problem is just because he IS very hard to understand, not simply because of his accent, but when he talks he mumbles very fast, and when he writes, he uses all sorts of abbreviations, acronyms and shortens everything. So of course it is hard to get his point, and even if he does have the language skills to write perfect English, he just chooses to do otherwise, and then claims people are being racist when they ask him to re-explain or raise their eyebrow…. Don't be over sensitive and look for racism when there is none, which is most of the time
well well well at least your boss didn't "it's okay even if your English is crap !"
😂
Sounds like your boss is being overly polite and not correcting what may be a small amount of not so perfect things. Your boss may be too nice and a bit worried about offending you, although the best thing for her to do is be honest when you ask for her feedback.
I work in a German company where the opposite is the case, the German managers ask us Aussies if their English is ok. But I am honest and correct them and they love it (they like to try to be perfect). Or for the managers who are a little shy, they will ask a lower level colleague to speak to an Aussie to check their written or verbal English.
What I would suggest to you is to ask one of your colleagues at your level who has very good Australian English, and who you are friends with and comfortable with, to give you their honest feedback. Having yourself getting feedback ftom a local native speaker is the best way you can polish off those parts of the language that are impossible to learn from a book or class.
I think you are right! My boss is older English lady and she is way to nice, at first I thought she was predending to be too nice. I think she is genuine :)
You could be in there mate! Get a radar on!
Perhaps this has something to do with your audience or recipients of the work you're completing
If you are doing mass mail outs or reports/communications to older or particular demographics then there may be heightened need for a certain quality
For example you wouldn't want a high amount of grammatical errors in legal or medical industries etc
Regardless, It's hard to say without witnessing the comment as most communication is non verbal anyway
If it makes you feel uncomfortable then I'd just ask the boss!!!
I think first comment hits the mark here - but it may also be perhaps if you have an accent, she may think that you are always going above and beyond trying to perfect your english in the written reports and she doesn't want you to have to force yourself to try too hard. She sounds like a lovely person to work under.
sounds like she is trying to hit on u.. i would make a move..
lol
Tell your boss you want to perfect your written and spoken English, and ask her for specific examples that need improvement. In doing this, you will learn the difference between acceptable English and business-level English.
It will be a major benefit to you in almost any career, not just your current one.
Your written English is better than half the native English speakers who work for me
she is definitely not racist, but she may be languag-ist, if there is such a thing.
I hate when people always go for the race card.your punctuation needs work BTW.
If you always have other colleagues attending in the meeting, I think it is really inappropriate to keep repeating saying that.
If this makes you feel uncomfortable, I think maybe one time, you should express this to your boss. Maybe sometime only you and your boss, no other colleagues, and not necessary to express it in a serious way. just mention.
I come from [a] non-English speaking background[. My] written and verbal skills are not perfect but I believe they [are] up to [standard].[When] I did my IElTS test [a] couple of years ago to get my permanent residency[,] I got [an] overall band of 7.5.
You get the idea.
Having thought about this message, and the writing skills in the question, I think your boss is saying:
"I recognise your English is not perfect, but I am most concerned with the information you are presenting, so the writing is less important. Your English presents no barriers to communicating the ideas in this instance. It is worth remembering, however, that your English skills might be a problem for other employers or in other roles, so I am gently reminding you that the issue shouldn't be completely ignored and you would do well to keep improving."I think this could explain both why it isn't an actual problem, but why she might keep mentioning it anyway. If she is a good boss, she will be thinking of your future too, and may see improving your English as useful over time to help you gain advancement/other opportunities.
In the end it seems you are getting your message across. English is a difficult language to master.
I would not try and read anything into the persons response,but would advise you to consider talking to them
in the same way as you sought advice here,they may be able to ease your mind about it instead of perhaps you worrying unnecessarily.If people don't know there are concerns they cannot address them.
You seem to be a caring person from what I read here,and I wish you well.I am, Thank you :)
The thing is, in some business settings they might not be as forgiving. I think I know where you are coming from, I too am from a non english speaking background. Very hard to understand someone's intention however from they way you wrote your original post as mentioned eloquently by someone else above it does seem like there are a lot of small errors. You'll get there. I too am pretty sure have made several grammatical errors in this one post.
I think people need to stop throwing the word "racist" around. If you believe that someone else's phrasing is insensitive, make sure you're not offending in turn by callously brandishing such a strong label.
If your boss was of your own ethnicity or some other minority, would you have called her "racist"? If the answer is no, the finger points back at you.
There is a problem with your English, you don't know what the word 'racist' stands for. :)
Maybe she just doesn`t want you to think so hard about your english skill. to make sure that you can focus on the contain of the report rather than your english skill.
I can't wait to go overseas and complain about racism when my LOTE isn't that good
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but why not say to her:
"I'm confused. If there isn't a problem with my English abilities, why do you alway make a comment about not worrying about it ?"
Isn't it better to go to the heart of a problem than to guess or react incorrectly ?
Ps. Your subject for this forum message reads strangely by saying "It is ok……". Since it's a question I would have written "Is it ok….."
Also the question mark should be after the quotation mark. The question mark would have been ok if she was asking a question, but since your asking the question it should be on the right side of the last quotation mark.
After the first quotation mark the first letter should also be a capital letter.
Tony
You're English is very good.
Do you spend a lot of time polishing it to make it good? Maybe she is happy for you to hand it to her sooner and not as good.
I don't think she is being racist or trying to mock your worth.An easy way for you to investigate the situation is by asking your boss to provide you with her edited final copy of your report. That way, you can take it home and compare what changes she has done. This will give you insight into what your boss is thinking and over time may improve your written English.
"¿qué?"
;-)
Your English is better than most people from a non-English speaking background. It will improve over time.
eg:
I have a friend who arrived in Australia from France at 10 years old, without being able to speak English. You would not pick it, and he would beat me at scrabble.This is just a guess but is it possible that you might be trying too hard to sound sophisticated when writing your report? Maybe she saw it your writing and that's why she said something like that, though at the same time I understand it does get annoying if she mentions it every single time. If you have a good relationship with your boss there's no harm in asking about it.
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It sounds like when you write your reports they must be 99% ok with just a little bit of error due to your english. I don't think your boss is being racist, she's just letting you know that there might be a few problems but she can fix it/ understand what you are saying.
If you are worried about it maybe you could take a class or something to pinpoint what you are doing wrong, besides that if you and your boss are ok with it, i wouldn't worry about it.