Non-drinkers: How do you do it?

DarthAntz on 08/01/2015 - 20:36

Hey Ozbargain community,

I've been a non-drinker since I left high school. I'm talking alcoholic beverages here. It all stemmed from getting my drivers license at the same time as completing my RSA (bar and gaming) license. The course was run by an experienced bar/club owner, and his stories turned me off. I was a terrible drinker to begin with, and annoyed myself more than anything while inebriated, let alone the sickness that followed.

I soon built up a tolerance to beer, wine and spirits, and consuming any in small quantities would make me sick or physically uncomfortable. Drinking scotch would send me sleep, and I'd get hangovers without reaching inebriation.

Through my early 20's I was ostracized by my mates, who would often go halves in a carton on the weekend or drink a hundred dollars on a night out. I'd spend the money on kebabs and lemon-lime and bitters. I was judged as a 'PUUSSSAAAY' or 'pr1ck who wouldn't drive them home at the end of the night'.

I've also developed greater sensitivities to alcohol, and suffer from gout attacks. Last Easter, baileys and milk had me spend 4 days off work in horrible pain, with an inflamed big toe twice the size of the other.

Now that I'm 30, I've started to enjoy going out to the local again, and have no problem needing liquid courage to have a good night out with a group of people or meeting new people out on my own.

On a night out, I'll drink waters, occasionally soft drinks, and unless its a birth/death/marriage, I'll have a single beer. It's got to be special and I'd only drink with the best of company, at the best of times.

Who else in the community experiences similar?
What would you like on the menu for non-alcoholic drinkers, and could something like this make nightlife experiences in bars and clubs more enjoyable for designated drivers, non-drinkers and reformed drinkers?
How easily do you enjoy your time out in public places without the need for intoxication?

Poll below and share some stories. Thank you

Poll Options

  • 204
    I dont go out/rarely go out because I dont drink or dont have interest in drinking.
  • 87
    I'm the same, I can manage a night out without a drink on multiple occasions no problem.
  • 14
    I really wish there was something for non-drinkers, something suave and non-dandy
  • 43
    Mate, get a kidney/liver transplant in Mexico and start your life again as a drinker
Health & Beauty

Comments

  • iSamurai on 10/01/2015 - 18:58
    +8

    I have no interest in drinking. I think my parents influenced me to stay alcohol free because they don't drink (and I think it's important to bring up kids this way). I never been pressured to drink at uni even though I stayed in a college on campus. My mates who drink are quite understanding so that was nice. Obviously I know what it's like to be drunk and I do embarrassing things so I know I much prefer to stay sober. Especially now I compete in sport (skinny athletic build) I don't tolerate much alcohol at all, so I just don't drink. Plus it's not cheap either. I'd rather spend that money on healthy food.

    I never went out to clubs and stuff when I was at uni. I was a boring kid and just focused on my studies. Looking back I'm glad I did that because I made the right friends and connections and got good grades… now I'm doing my PhD in biomedical engineering :)

  • cantstanzya on 10/01/2015 - 19:38

    I like beer

  • jzx100 on 10/01/2015 - 19:43

    I don't drink but I have nothing against it. What does seriously piss me off is drunk people, calling them morons would be a compliment.

    Asides from that I would rather spend some time with mary jane than drink.

  • Jackson on 10/01/2015 - 23:16
    +4

    I think it's probably expected that this is almost starting to become a drinker bashing session. Of course people either didn't drink much when they were young and then kept that up, or drank heaps and probably eventually slowed down because of the 1000 reasons of growing up.

    Drinking is a social lubricant. Of course there are people that are going to say they 'don't need it to be social' but the truth there is that it works, part of the reason it's been so popular since the Mayans were around is because of that. The same people probably write off all the people they meet who are drunker than them as '(profanity) they wouldn't want to be friends with anyway'. That's not really getting along with people in my book.

    Drinking and drugs are among other things used to expand peoples minds, allow them to be in many cases more open to suggestion, differences and maybe even making people care less about the small things about people that may bother them (or in other words it allows people to find common ground where they may not have any). I'm not saying people should have to drink, if it's not your thing don't do it, but I don't really do motorsports, does that make all motorsports fans (profanity)? No, it just means I don't share that in common.

    Anyone who for example thinks that alcohol, or socialising effectively with people that may work with you that drink, all things being equal, if a promotion comes up the person is going to pick the one who is good at his job and has a drink with him. And if he drinks alcohol with him even better. Just like if he didn't drink he's likely to pick the one that doesn't.

  • RefusdClassification on 10/01/2015 - 23:40
    -2

    You people are a bunch of squares. 'Cool' people do drugs. Most people just cannot socialize if they don't have a cigarette or joint or glass of an alcoholic beverage. My neighbours cannot seem to socialize unless they have a TV running in the background either.

    • scrimshaw on 10/01/2015 - 23:55

      Socializing? Pfft. That's so 90's. Who needs to socialize when we have can just Facebook and WhatsApp each other…

      Everyone knows that a smartphone is the perfect tool for socializing.

    • netsurfer on 11/01/2015 - 09:10

      How about the not so cool examples? My boss does not drink alcohol because some of his high school friends died in an accident after they consumed too much alcohol (and that experience had some strong impact on him). One of my relatives has a busted liver due to drinking alcohol for years.

      You don't need alcohol to be cool. In fact, whether you are cool or not has nothing to do with alcohol.

  • Wyzard on 11/01/2015 - 00:27
    +2

    The fact that I'm at home on a Saturday reading this thread makes me want to drink.

  • Bonsaichop on 11/01/2015 - 09:41
    +2

    Easy. I'd rather keep my brain cells. I run a small business that runs almost 24 hrs/day and needs my full attention.

    I'm also a carer for my father who is a stroke victim from alcohol abuse, so that's always a constant reminder of what can happen.

    I used to have the occasional beer, i'm talking one small bottle of beer every week or two, but even that now gives me headaches about an hour afterwards.

    It's not hard, just need to have some focus in your life, go out and learn something instead of wasting time socialising or sitting infront of the TV. It's amazing what you can learn and achieve when you do not adhere to the social norm.

  • lenlynn on 11/01/2015 - 12:51

    I'm female and used to drink much more with friends and my partner. Now we are older (all 25 and above) and all working full-time we only drink a little once a month or less. We did used to make fun of a good friend who couldn't drink more than one std drink without getting drunk but we are past that now. I think the importance of alcohol in our lives diminishes the older we get and develop new priorities.

    That being said, I enjoy the taste of alcohol and I'm a happy drunk; it just lifts my spirits! Must be in my genes cos my relatives love to drink too. If I have unlimited money, don't have to work, and don't have to worry about alcohol killing my brain cells (greatest worry), I dare say I will drink so much more often.

    PS We just got a cider making kit for Christmas so that's exciting!

  • nonbeliever93 on 11/01/2015 - 12:56

    After a few goes at alcohol with varying results (falling asleep at 10pm, throbbing headache, baptising the pub floor, Asian flush) I just decided not too. Certainly, I've been to alcohol-fueled events where I've turned into the stick in the mud by not drinking. I'm not much of a party person anyway and prefer smaller, quieter groups in general.

    I have friend groups who like a good drink. I've found that having at least one group which centres fun around tv/film or board game nights makes life much happier. You can still catch up with friends in other settings but it's good to have night-time social events where people aren't getting blind drunk. I mostly don't go for big alcohol events or, if I do, I leave before things get too drunk.

  • syousef on 11/01/2015 - 18:20

    Coke.

  • jaybmate on 11/01/2015 - 19:30

    You can party without drinking; Steve Aoki doesn't drink.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2015 - 12:21
      +2

      Steve Aoki is a c**t though

  • Ebany on 11/01/2015 - 21:34

    It's easy, just gotto remember that because alcohol is legal it doesn't mean it's any less of a drug than Coke. I've always figured alcohol is something to abuse for a few years when a person's young, until they've matured and seen the damage it does. Severe medical conditions, relationship issues, domestic violence against women & children, drunk driving ……. no other drug comes close to the damage alcohol does.

    I'm not against drinking, I just feel that people who can't do it responsibly should not do it at all. I'm yet to meet a person outside of AA who admits their addicted.

    The irony is that I have friends who drink every night and believe that's normal, but these same friends firmly believe the smokers in the group who say they can quit cigarettes any-time are full of sh*t.

  • rilebags on 12/01/2015 - 01:04

    If you don't like drinking don't go to bars and clubs. It's a pretty shit environment anyway. The only part I enjoy is the alcohol.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2015 - 15:17

      The only part I enjoy is the alcohol.

      Ain't that the whole point?

      (do you ask for 'no ice'? "Don't you find that you get more without it?")

    • singlemalt72 on 12/01/2015 - 18:09

      Damn, you must go to shit pubs.

      • rilebags on 12/01/2015 - 18:37

        You must be easily pleased.

        • singlemalt72 on 13/01/2015 - 15:26

          Funnily enough, for living in rural NSW we have fantastic live music and all sorts of other things going on - I can happily sip on a coke zero whilst enjoying atmosphere and chatting with drinking mates.

  • AMLagonda on 12/01/2015 - 01:48

    I just have a cuppa tea or a cappuccino or water, dont need a alcoholic drink in my life.
    Dont like beer and wine just Bacardi and Coke but I havent had a drink in a couple of years even then it was just a few.

    A lot of people seem to drink to escape, it just seems to make things worse.

  • shaybisc on 12/01/2015 - 09:35

    Back in my day we used to responsibly mix our drug consumption- mainly dope, speed, acid, eccies- not just hit the one drug hard. The kids these days just sound like drunks to me.

  • 2ndeffort on 12/01/2015 - 11:22

    I used to drink a lot when I was young, living in a share house with mates and at parties/clubs for 1/2 of my life……sorry, nearly teared up there remembering the good times!! Now that I am an overweight middle aged bloke whose kids are almost at that very stage themselves, I rarely drink. I never drunk for the sake of 'getting drunk', I just went to parties and things where there was loads of alcohol around and we were all having fun. Now that I no longer go to those things I don't feel the need.

    I occasionally have a beer or a scotch but I literally have a 1/4 drunk bottle of Wild Turkey that must have been in there for 10 years without getting opened again. I have a basket with some beer stubbies in it hidden in the back of the pantry, mostly to make sure I have a couple cold in the fridge if we get visitors. I have to check the 'use by' dates when I cycle them into the fridge in case they have gone off.

    Funny thing is my best mate from those days now lives interstate but was over at our place last week passing through. We had dinner and I offered a beer but knew that him drinking was less likely than me winning powerball. It must be a generational thing. I would still have some social beers for the right function/event, not for the sake of drinking, more for the sake of just enjoying the event and being part of the experience. I would never sit and drink alone, just not interested.

  • snook on 12/01/2015 - 12:09

    I drank when I was young but I never liked the taste of it so I stopped. I was ostracised by friends because their idea of fun was to get pissed. Later on I was ostracised by others because I wasn't interested in drugs. Tried them and moved on too.

    Our whole culture revolves around drinking (or drugs) which is sad and if you go out, it's often just really noisy and you can't talk to anyone either … so you drink/take drugs, don't go or go home.

    You just have to find friends that have the same ideals as you. I still went out and had a good time and I remembered everything, unlike others ;) which was fun in itself. Ultimately you save a lot of money anyway.

    • ProjectZero on 12/01/2015 - 13:10

      Whilst I don't condone the use of drugs… but it seems you don't do that (or at least not anymore).

      For having a moral to the story along the lines of "If they don't like you because you don't drink, find some friends who can appreciate you for not drinking". I don't see why you got negg'd

  • 2ndeffort on 12/01/2015 - 12:16
    +5

    Actually I was just thinking about my post above and I think what changes over time is not your preference for alcohol. I was talking to my 17 yo son the other day, he was off to a pool party with some kids from his school. He came out of his room looking like a poor clone of Justin Bieber, dark sunglasses, baseball hat on backwards, white cotton singlet, big basketball boots (despite him never ever having been within 20m of a basketball game). I laughed and asked where he was off to looking like a moron. We then had the whole 'you don't get it…I can do what I want' chat. Essentially the same one I probably had in the 80's with my dad when i came home with a flat-top haircut.

    A day or 2 later when he was dressed normally again we had a chat and it came out that he was trying to 'fit in' and look cool because there was going to be girls at the party. I told him there was a reason that old blokes get around in 'socks and sandals' brown walk shorts and floral shirts. I told him the reason is that they find it comfortable and that the older you get the less you care what other people think, or you get better at working out which people matter and are worth appeasing. Old guys place comfort higher up the priority list than impressing some unknown people that will have little bearing on their life. I reckon alcohol is probably the same, when you are young you want to be part of the cool party crowd and 'impress' the girls with your all-round fun cool-ness and party spirit. When you are older you know that anybody that is impressed by your alcohol consumption and drunken antics is probably a friend you can do without.

    • DarthAntz on 12/01/2015 - 23:09

      Good work there. Its important to (profanity) it up when you're young. I drank when i was in high school and was glad i learned my lessons there and then. it was much more fun. I never got into serious trouble, never got violent or into fights, told plenty of people to (profanity) off, and was a dick trying to fit in also. I think my parents knew it by the familiar tones, and had a level of appreciation for me discovering it there and then. Its why I didnt want to continue. Early 20's i saw the mates who didnt learn, and got into fights, trouble with the law, and dug a deep enough hole for themselves. I'm grateful they've learned by late 20's that its a cultural aspect they can do without. Took long enough and cost enough though.
      Enjoy it while you're young, but grow up. There's nothing responsible about our inherent drinking culture. I couldnt disrespect friends or people who drink these days, because like i said earlier, they drink for a reason.

  • BargainCowboy on 12/01/2015 - 12:32

    Not drinking because it's a) not healthy (except for red wine, very moderately) and b) very expensive. Perhaps I'll have one beer every 3-4 weeks, but that's really it.

  • ProjectZero on 12/01/2015 - 13:07

    Quick question for all the drinkers, why do you drink?

    Is it the taste or is there other reasons? Because most alcohol mixers are syrup tasting in my opinion.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2015 - 15:11
      +3

      why do you drink?

      To dull the pain.

      • ProjectZero on 12/01/2015 - 15:32

        Speaking from experience? ;P

        As I look back at my uni days, seriously wasn't that far away but still… I keep bringing up the question, why did I drink. My response to this is "I have no bloody idea", so I wanted to see what others' response was.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2015 - 15:49
          +1

          I think a lot of us would have varied reasons. As youths, many of us would probably share the answer "I have no idea" or something along those lines.. basically we did it because everyone else our age was doing it, and/or it seemed like a fun idea. That's all the justification anything really needs when you're young, right? :)

          Maybe once you're past the early 20s and you still find yourself drinking routinely, then there would be other reasons behind it. Possibly deeper reasons worth questioning (but the same easily applies for underage drinking too or at least some cases of it).

          I personally have a complicated relationship with alcohol. I've been known to 'use it' rather than drink to enjoy it - periods of depression etc. Not going out getting plastered or anything… I'd just have a few at home to help me get to sleep or something, or maybe more than a few. More a 'sad' drinking case than some binge drinking party animal you find passed out in the gutter on a Sunday morning lol. Still - not really any more sophisticated I guess.

          I do enjoy drinks though, experiencing different flavours and mixing stuff up. Each to their own, but I don't find they taste awful like others find. There are so many exciting spirits and liqueurs out there with endless possibilities. But beer and cider is also very good.

          Basically.. these days I drink for the flavour. One drink in a blue moon, and I'll savour it. But it's served other purposes unfortunately.

        • ProjectZero on 12/01/2015 - 16:06

          @waterlogged turnip:

          Females have more choices so I suppose drinking for flavour is common.

          Males, generally, try to find "manly" drinks (mainly to uphold an image) and they usually taste like crap. My poison of choice is usually beer, jin and tonic and vodka mixed with OJ or redbull. I can honestly tell you now, that they aren't particularly tasty. I now have an excuse to not drink and that's because I'm on a diet.

          Also, if you can't get to sleep or just need to get your mind off things, I would highly recommend going for a drive or games or maybe even a movie. Drinking to get to sleep or to take your mind off things is not really good for ya, regardless of quantity as it can lead to reliance on alcohol. Worst comes to worst, just go for a run around your neighborhood. Just need to find a hobby you can enjoy and that will work.

        • moogi27 on 12/01/2015 - 17:19

          @ProjectZero: I honestly think a gin and tonic tastes great and am female :)

        • ProjectZero on 12/01/2015 - 18:03

          @moogi27:

          I like it too, it has a nice bitter taste to it, or at least the ones that I get from bars, but in terms of taste department, I'd rather drink water.

        • shaybisc on 12/01/2015 - 18:16

          @ProjectZero:

          Going for a run around the neighbourhood late at night- good way to get beaten up by drunks.

        • ProjectZero on 12/01/2015 - 20:26

          @shaybisc:

          That is if they can even walk… I'm betting they'd be stumbling all over… even anything you should be able to roll them without lifting a finger =)

    • crob on 13/01/2015 - 15:50

      It very relaxing to sit down and have a nice cold drink at the end of the day, soon as i have a sip of bourbon i feel like a million bucks… and that's why i'm trying to stop… as its kinder signs of addiction :-S

  • cheekymonkey on 12/01/2015 - 17:30

    A man is not a camel and therefore must drink! These days I have a larger and larger focus on taste, rather then 'alcohol content vs price', with various wines and craft beers, sharing them with friends/partner. the tequila shots are gone for now. I also think, that some people don't distinguish between a 'few drinks' with dinner/friends or getting 'hammered'. what's better then a cheeky bottle of wine with your partner over dinner???? for the non-drinkers, I always say just get your soft drink/juice in a short glass. not the cheapest way to do it, but everyone will think you're drinking spirits and not bother you. another little trick; if it's your round, get yourself a pint of light beer. again, this is only for those who don't want to the questions or comments from others.

    • ProjectZero on 12/01/2015 - 18:04

      Aww, I was hoping for a long exposition as to why humans need liquids periodically to survive when I read

      A man is not a camel and therefore must drink!

  • goraygo on 12/01/2015 - 21:56

    I don't drink because I don't like the taste of any alcoholic drinks. I don't have allergic issues like you.

    However, friends in my 18+ to mid-20s are all drinkers. I actually don't know any male friend who doesn't drink. There are peer pressure and that. But my personality is like, I don't like it, tough luck that kind of person. So good friends learnt to back off and new friends quickly learnt that's how I am.

    About girlfriends, because the way I am, girls who are pretty but heavy drinkers turns me off.

    And I think you should consider that too, if your gf doesn't share similar attitude as you, you might get annoyed. (Only if you get annoyed)

    My wifey now doesn't drink like me. So all good. :)

  • etherspin on 12/01/2015 - 23:24

    a friend worth having will stop with the grief after an initial ribbing , otherwise it is their own issue with A. being a tool or B. feeling guilty for their own overconsumption and wanting everyone around them to be complicit so it feels normal to them.

    I got drunk just the once at a friends 18th to argue that it wasnt true that Id be "hooked" if i got drunk once and felt how wonderful it supposedly was. I have no need for a liquid crutch now (we never did as kids, does the alcohol change the standard and make us need it for social situations ?) and with every passing year we move closer to warning labels on bottles - alcohol will eventually be as contentious and frowned upon as cigarette smoking, it will just take a long time as its been a tradition in almost every culture for a couple of thousand years but in contrast to cigarettes - at least the cigs will only kill you, they won't fry your brain prior.
    It appears that alcohol disproportionately damages the frontal lobe to the rest of the brain so old notions that we could gauge damage by general cognitive impairment may now be invalid, before we lose marbles we lose control of ourselves (not unlike the temporary experience of actually being drunk,which makes sense,if the frontal lobe is soaking it up)

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131119193624.ht…

    I have a cousin with a frontal lobe injury from a car crash and induced coma , his dad now has bowel and liver cancer (and was a daily drinker but low amount per day, since legal age) and neither of them will consider dropping alcohol though one is incurring further brain damage upon his impairment, the other probably fuelling his cancers which are both of the type alcohol can trigger - tragic.

    screw it and stuff any "friends" who give you non affectionate grief about it - time will be on your side - life expectancy will continue to rise, you may live to 140 or so,perhaps beyond so protect your noggin and get some decent mates!

  • love2buy on 13/01/2015 - 02:05

    I find the taste of alcohol awful and won't touch it even if it was for free.

    • 2ndeffort on 13/01/2015 - 11:29
      +1

      I am pretty sure that 'Alcohol' by itself is colourless and tasteless. It is the wide array of different types of alcoholic drinks that add the flavour. I haven't drunk them all but I have had a fair sample and it is hard to argue that a 'Fruity Lexia' tastes anything like a Single Malt Scotch.

      • scrimshaw on 13/01/2015 - 17:10

        Alcohol (systematic name, ethanol) is not tasteless. In fact, it has a rather unpleasant burning sensation, which unless you are Irish or Russian, would be fairly acquired taste. That's why humans for the past few centuries had to come up with ways as to make alcohol taste better, by mixing it with a bunch of other stuff. Mixed drinks are an attempt to hide the taste of alcohol.

        If you were to drink straight vodka (and gag on it) you'll understand what alcohol tastes like since it is nearly 40% alcohol, and it is the primary reason why vodka is often mixed with something else — it is to mask the sharp and unpleasant characteristics of drinking ethanol.

        • 2ndeffort on 13/01/2015 - 21:11

          OK, I'll hide behind the 'pretty sure' getout clause in my post then.

          I have actually drunk neat vodka and didn't taste much to be honest. I went to school with a Russian kid whose dad used to make vodka from Tip Top bread. His assertion was that the viscosity changed so you had to drink it very cold, used to keep it in the freezer. Anyhoo I remember drinking it at one of the irresponsible teenager parties I went to a very long time ago, Havent drunk much of it since.

  • shaybisc on 13/01/2015 - 09:11
    +1

    I don't know how teetotallers can put up with the company of drinkers, who are exceedingly boring, talk nothing but rubbish and can only be endured with the aid of a good stiff drink. How do you do it? Are you into Zen?

  • crob on 13/01/2015 - 15:43
    +1

    I'm normally a semi heavy drinker 2-5 bourbon and cokes or ciders most nights, over the last few weeks I've been in a of a rut and on Saturday I did my normal n got pretty drunk and wasted a bit of coin… decided Sunday morning that from now on i'm only drinking when i go out for dinner as i want to save money to start a business mid years… the way i'm feeling 3rd day in it's going to be a horrible week or 2 till the detox is done

  • DealSeeker7 on 13/01/2015 - 18:23

    To Darthantz

    It sounds like you have serious liver issues. I recommend seeing a doctor about it - immediately.

    • DarthAntz on 14/01/2015 - 01:33
      +1

      Cheers Josh, yes I have seen him over the years since having gout. I am concerned about the effect on my liver over time, if I sway from the allopurinol/diet choices/exercise. Its an embarrassing issue because it is so avoidable in life. I do physical activity daily and stay on a pure diet, eating vegetarian 3+ days a week and avoiding alcohol, high protein foods and everything else on the list. I've started adding a pinch of mineral salt to my drinking water, so that im not just flushing my system with the large amounts of water i consume.
      Thank you for your concern and I'm glad this post has enlightened as many people as it has on drinking culture, gout and socialising. Peace

  • umoddbro on 13/01/2015 - 19:52
    +1

    22, absolutely hate the taste of alcohol.. beer, wine, even those vodka cruisers. I mainly drink water but I'd take a bottle of Coke over a beer any day.

  • TRANCE on 13/01/2015 - 22:16

    I am proud to say I have not drank for many years, just don't ask why there is a funnel in my ass :O

  • GourmetFoodie on 03/02/2015 - 14:08

    I don't go out often in groups where the peer pressure to drink is there…generally if it's a work do, I'll have 1 or 2 drinks and nurse them slowly through the night, or mix it up with non alcoholic beverages. Otherwise in every day life the pressure or desire to drink is very low. We have a few nice bottles of wine and French champagne in the cupboard for special occasions but otherwise we drink water with all our meals. My partner is mildly allergic to alcohol so that helps. I think when it's not a habit to drink or "expected" every night with dinner, it's very easy not to desire it. I'm thrilled we rarely drink though - a friends partner in his late 20s just got diagnosed with fatty liver disease from drinking too much - alcohol is a dangerous drug if abused.

  • aznkevy on 14/02/2015 - 00:33

    I'm 17 and a straight edge…

  • Geekomatic on 27/02/2017 - 14:54
    +1

    I usually have a plain iced tea or lemon-lime bitters….don't care to spend the $$$ on alcohol, truthfully. Just not worth it.

    Imho

  • meccamino on 28/02/2017 - 17:02

    Your friends don't seem very friendly. They'll get over it and learn to accept you as you are. If they don't, you shouldn't stick around.

    • DarthAntz on 02/03/2017 - 16:41

      yeah this was 12 years ago now, and 2 years since the post. Those friends have all grown up and changed, and whether we drank alcohol together or not isnt the issue anymore. it was just a part of growing up.
      I live in Japan now, and can drink alcohol free beer, but most often i can get a hot pot of green tea and i enjoy my time out with friends by having a drink with them. there is more pressure to drink culturally here with the boss and coworkers, but gout is common enough here that people understand.

      I have also undertaken a better liver diet, less sugar, more liver-healthy foods, and ive been able to lose weight ive had for years, i can concentrate much better, and much better mood and energy.

      I suppose the purpose of this post was to see if people think bars and clubs should appeal to non-alcohol drinkers, and if they could still make money by having a venue that doesnt focus on getting people wasted.

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