Does anyone know how lenient MFB are with their fines or have any experience with them? I have received a $2500 bill from my body corporate to recover an MFB false alarm fine. MFB report states the callout was due to alarm automatically being triggered from cooking fumes coming from my apartment. Apartment is currently leased to tenants and they confirm they produced cooking fumes that day.
MFB Fine for $2500 in Melbourne CBD (1.25hrs charge)
Larnottsmintslice on 09/12/2014 - 23:12
Comments
charge it to your tenant. That is if you actually had a proper rental agreement in place.
Yes, there is a proper 12 month rental agreement through real estate agent. However would like to resolve this with MFB if possible before going to tenant. Don't think my tenant has the financial means ( or desire) to pay. They actually asked for a substantial rent reduction even though it is the most competitive rent on the market two months into the contract and are thinking about returning to india since they are struggling with the rent.
Interesting that they asked for reduction and telling you that they are going back. No one would go back just because they are struggling with rent.It seems to me that they are playing their cards to get rent reduction or getting out of rent agreement.
I don't understand your question/ I must be missing something here?
If the MFB is trying to recoup money for attending a call-out made by someone else (i.e. not you, or your tenants), which turned out to be possibly related to fumes derived from someone cooking something in a place that you happen to own, tell them to get serious/naff-off; it's ridiculous.
I'm not sure why you think it's ridiculous. The owner is ultimately responsible for their property, for anything from a pet to a car to an apartment.
OP: Is it possible that your insurance will cover this? And what, exactly, does your body corporate agreement say?
Yes GnarlyKnuckles, you clearly are missing something.
I am quite sure that no one actually made a call-out. The fire system in most new apartment buildings are hooked up such that if a sprinkler or smoke-detector (only those in common corridors, not those in your unit) is set off, it automatically trigger an alert to the fire station.
It is a safety feature that enables firefighters to react ASAP to any possible fires, and to know the "exact" location of the fire, literally down to the level and unit.
Therefore in this case, the person who "called for the fire engine" is basically the person who set off the alarm, which they have determined to be his tenant (possible through the above tracking method). Therefore, his tenants are liable.
Hope this makes sense.
Dear bsmksk… Your explanation as to how it may have happened is sound, but the practical reality of such a system of liability is not. If challenged in court, there is simply no way any magistrate/judge would decide that a family renting a small property (read "UNIT") that happened to be part of a "body-corporate" fitted with 'back-to-base'/ automated call-out' alarms would end up owing the MFB $2500 because they accidentally burnt an egg (for example)… or their young child burnt some toast… or their guest over-heated a pan of fat for a couple of minutes (etc.); it is ridiculous because there was clearly zero intent, and while there may have been a small degree of NEGLIGENCE, there was certainly nothing like the degree of negligence that would be required to justify a $2500 penalty; payable by anyone. The tenants, OR the landlord.
Good on you for trying to spare your tenant the expense, but I don't think the MFB will show any leniency. They HATE false alarms, especially to units. Its worth a phone call, but in the end the fine is for your tenants to pay.
Well, MFB report said specifically the fire alarm was triggered by cooking fumes coming from my apartment number. Firies spoke to tenant during the callout and tenant aren't denying they set off alarm.
Body corp has paid MFB, and added fees to my levy. Unless MFB reverse decision, body corp will seek charges from meIn NSW an owners corporation/building management is not allowed to pass this fee onto tentants/owners if it occurred as part of normal use. If it was caused by cooking fumes and the tenant used the rangehood in the correct manner then they cannot be held liable.
If they burnt the food or didn't use the rangehood correctly then they can pass the fine to the tenant.
So, what you're saying is that if the tenant did nothing wrong, and the owner did nothing wrong, then the body corporate itself has to foot the bill. That would mean all the owners have to pay a share.
Yes that is correct. A properly operating alarm should not activate when cooking fumes are vented correctly.
Correct operation of an alarm is the responsibility of the owners corporation/building management.
It really depends on the scenario of the alarm being set off. The tennants probably opened a door that leads onto a common area which set off the alarm - happens all the time in my block of flats.
Tell them you want a rate of rise detector installed, as that is more accurate.
It won't trigger from cooking.I have a normal smoke detector in my hallway and a rate of rise detector in my kitchen.
In 14 years I have only ever set the alarm off once, when a friend brought some fatty sauasges to cook.
i hate body corporates. that is all.
me too!!
Have you checked your unit since this incident. To trigger an alarm outside of the unit they must have been producing a lot of fumes. Have they stained your walls?
Why do you assume the smoke detector is outside the unit? Many units have smoke detectors inside too.
The fumes were coming from the apartment. " MFB report states the callout was due to alarm automatically being triggered from cooking fumes coming from my apartment."
This is very specific to Melb CBD apartments.
Basically, the smoke detectors in your unit work independently, and all it does is sound the alarm when fumes are detected.
HOWEVER, the smoke detectors and sprinklers that are in the corridors are hooked up to a central computer, which automatically calls the fire services if an alarm is triggered, and the fire services WILL send a fire engine. And you are liable for cost.
The reason why they know that it was his tenant who set off the alarm is due to the central computer identifying that the smoke detector that was triggered was the one outside his door.
Hope this clears your confusion.
WOW!!… stuck between a rock and hard place.
But I agree with someone earlier to say if you or your tenant were not negligent, the body corp shouldn't charge you.
My fire alarm at home has gone off a few times while cooking. If I were charged $2.5k each time, I'd permanently disable my hardwired smoke detector and install some cheap battery operated ones.
In this case, his tenant was negligent, and here's why.
For most Melb CBD apartments, the smoke detectors in the unit work independently, and all it does is sound the alarm when fumes are detected. So, you can set off the alarm as many times as you want, and MFB will not come nor will you be charged $2.5k.
HOWEVER, the smoke detectors and sprinklers that are in the corridors are hooked up to a central computer, which automatically calls the fire services if an alarm is triggered, and the fire services WILL send a fire engine. And you are liable for cost.
The reason why they know that it was his tenant who set off the alarm is due to the central computer identifying that the smoke detector that was triggered was the one outside his door.
So, the lesson here is: If there are fumes in the apartment, DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR LEADING TO THE CENTRAL CORRIDOR.
Erm… your post is soooo wrong, on sooooo many levels.
This bit:
'The reason why they know that it was his tenant who set off the alarm … (etc)'
… is a wild over-simplification of the facts presented, cause the main thing the MFB seem to be going on is an apparent "admission" from the tenants that they were producing cooking fumes on the day. It could quite easily have been someone else in the complex who dislikes these particular tenants and/or their cooking habits, who has opportunistically set of the alarm outside their particular residence. I myself cook every day, and thus, also produce cooking fumes; that, in itself, is not a crime or even a "finable" offence.
And this bit:
'So, the lesson here is: If there are fumes in the apartment, DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR LEADING TO THE CENTRAL CORRIDOR.'
Erm … this is REALLY SILLY advice, because what if the "fumes" you euphemistically allude to are DISPLACING THE OXYGEN in the place, and the peeps therein (potentially babies, the elderly, infirm etc.?) require an immediate influx of oxygen to stay alive? Are you suggesting that they should try and "make-do-without" said oxygen, so as to avoid setting off an alarm OUTSIDE there actual residence, in order to possibly avoid a fine being levelled at them by a body corporate?!
Sheesh hombre…
I think you misread what I wrote. You SHOULD not open the door leading to the central corridor.
You can and SHOULD open all windows and all other doors to ventilate the unit, just not the one leading to the common corridor.Also, I am not over simplifying facts. MFB will bill the body corp for triggering the automatic call-out. Your body corp will bill your unit if it is found that you set off the alarm, and they WILL know it's your unit because the Fire Panel (in the Mail room in most apartment buildings) will specify as such.
How do I know this? Because I used to live in the Melb CBD, and had neighbours who set off the alarm, and I did bother reading through the apartment manual, which clearly states your liability should you set off a corridor alarm.
And yes, I do understand your point of how the "tenents" should not be liable but unfortunately someone has to pay for it, and most body corp will stipulate that the "unit" will be liable.
I have to say that the way the MFB works in Melb CBD is just weird, and I disagree that anyone should pay for a false alarm. Unfortunately, there is no way to get out of the bill.
If you haven't noticed, if a fire alarm goes off in a CBD shopping Centre (like Melb Central), the MFB will send 4 fire engines, even if it was just a tiny fire in a bin which set off the alarm. It is a total overkill, but the MFB will still charge the Centre Management anyway.
Hey, things don't always make sense.
They'd pay the fine perhaps?