Finder's Fee Paid for discovering property buyers, Interested?

Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 01/12/2014 - 13:20
Last edited 04/12/2014 - 10:25

I run a finder's fee discovery service startup in melbourne and have been an occasional ozbargain user( different nick :) ).

We have 3 RE firms willing to pay finder's fees for putting them in touch with potential property buyers.
http://carrotleads.com/search.php?t=property

The details
NSPI : http://carrotleads.com/invite.php?code=53bJICJVCndio
- gives $3000 referral reward at the end on success

Substantia : http://carrotleads.com/invite.php?code=54himf8SMH1Tc
- give 1% of property sale price ( eg: $5000 on a 500K property )

Equity : http://carrotleads.com/invite.php?code=544x0izLMg5JI
- gives $1000 on property sale plus has $5000 sales commission, check details

Does this interest ozbargainers?

Posted last week here https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/172077 and we have had a few people pass on leads to the referred company who are following up.

PS : Based on some of the feedback we just added a checkbox that a networker has to check to inform if the data is private or confidential data … Will wire it up better and tighten it asap..

Since ozbargainers seem interested in the overall concept these why pages should explain it better…
This link talks about becoming a finder/ networker and the benefits http://carrotleads.com/whyshareleads.php

To understand how our product could work for a business, http://carrotleads.com/whyusecarrotleads.php

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Comments

  • adamren on 01/12/2014 - 14:33

    Occasional user but just signed up 3 days ago?

    So what's the other username?

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 01/12/2014 - 14:34

      Yeah.. I just updated the post to say I have another username but lets keep the identities separate… This is rep identity… a new one..

      • Xplosive on 04/12/2014 - 07:49
        +1

        Hi Scotty

  • adamren on 01/12/2014 - 17:02
    -5

    I'm sceptical. Post the other user ID then.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 01/12/2014 - 21:48

      Good for you mate… I am happy for you to remain skeptical..

  • the-mal on 02/12/2014 - 09:17

    I'm trying to understand your business model here.

    So you don't just do this for one industry? So it'd take a lot of randomness (or a massive userbase) for me to stumble across a lead that I could be a useful networker for, right?

    So I sign up for your site and wade through all these random leads (radiographers, elearning, house hunting) until I randomly stumble across something I know something about?

    It sounds very non-targeted. Surely someone finding a lead they can act on would be by pure fluke. And if they're doing this on a casual basis (I'm assuming you can't make a living off of being a networker) then I'd assume the quality of your leads is going to be incredibly variable. And if they went there with a specific lead in mind (eg I just want to look at Radiographer leads) then you're no different to a specialist recruiter.

    Recruiters (and other lead generators) work in niches because they want industry depth to get quality leads. Your site seems to remove that advantage and require either pure fluke OR for you to do exactly what you're doing here (cross posting to different forums with a focused/niche pitch - one for real estate, one for radiographers etc). Is someone who goes to your site link for Radiographer referrals really going to suddenly say "Oh, wait, I'm going to start putting up leads for real estate!"?

    Your website looks cool, but I still don't see what service your adding, or what your business model could possibly be (why someone would pay you). Enlighten me?

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 11:12

      Happy to answer questions mate… The concept seems quite simple in my head and seems simple for people who have got their head around it but extremely complex for those who look at it first… I am trying to decode the thought processes so I can learn and explain myself better… so your questions are much appreciated.

      I had answered a few here https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/172077 and will do so again.

      We don't have a message board of leads.. leads are given by a networker one on one to a business… they do this for 2 reasons
      1. they think this business can run with this lead and convert it
      2. they like the rewards or finder fees this business offers

      The ratings / reviews will inform them of the probable success of the above 2 factors.

      PS : we are working on a mechanism to save networkers time and just pass a quick lead to the platform. We will match it with 1-3 businesses( based on above 2 factors) and keep networker informed

      I can keep explaining more but I think the subsequent parts of your post is based on an assumption that business wade through leads and pick and choose, which isn't the case…

      A business can set up a profile and should publicise it to their network circle.. tell people they are willing to pay reward for leads and serious about it… the networkers have a tool they can use to track leads

      Once this is done they can forget about it, until they get a lead… well if they get no leads then they need to refine their profile and publicise it more to their contact circle…

      We have 85+ business and around 200 networkers now on the platform.

      • the-mal on 02/12/2014 - 12:02

        Sorry, mixed up my terminology, you have a board full of lead requests (essentially).

        So your business model isn't that you bring networkers to clients, that promotion is for them to do? Your pitch is that you are providing a tool that tracks leads?

        I guess it still seems like complicating the process by adding another step. The founder mentions himself providing a lead for a development job, which would work well as he's a developer (it's in industry). I can see why his in-industry lead has value. But why not cut out the extra middle man and just provide that lead to the hundreds of recruiters he'd already know because he's in industry? And if he provided a lead out of his industry (say a Real Estate lead) how would I know how dodgy it is? It could just be that his mate mentioned he wants to sell his house, so he "sells" this information without disclosing it to his friend? I wonder whether his friend would be okay with this…

        That's where this falls down for me. The only point of difference I'm getting here from existing services is that it is cross-industry. But that also means that it's non targeted and I'd assume much lower quality, or if people are only providing leads to their industry then the cross-industry point of difference disappears.

        Good luck with it all! It seems that you've got the processes understood within your own head, it's just not translating very well into a sales pitch for me (but it may just be me!). Do you find that your current networkers are sticking to one niche of leads or are they providing them across the board?

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 12:28

          I have a board full of businesses wanting leads and stating the rewards they will pay when they convert a lead. All a networker/ ozbargainer has to do is

          1. see an opportunity,
          2. log in on carrotleads
          3. share opportunity..
          4. wait for money to roll in :)

          I use the platform as a networker and have shared lots of leads until now.. waiting for a big contract from a SW dev lead I gave to get signed( 10K commission for 10 mins work, not kidding)… My point is, anyone can do this and we have given the tools and its free for networkers…

          Now lets imagine this "property lead" scenario. You the ozbargainer learns that a person, lets call him Mark, is looking to buy an investment property. Mark may be an acquaintance, close friend, enemy, whatever… Mark may have posted on a message board or mentioned this over a BBQ or you heard it from a friend of Mark…

          1. If information is public & Mark wants people to get in touch, then ozbargainer has implicit permission to share Mark's information

          2. If information is not public, you the ozbargainer can talk to Mark and ask if you can get someone to help him with property purchase

          3. Ozbargainer shares Mark's details across on our platform. ( can be done anonymously too)

          4. The business referred in post above "Substantia or NSPI or Equity" accepts lead( contact details revealed only on acceptance ), they may choose to decline lead too

          5. Substantia or NSPI or Equity contacts Mark and ascertains lead validity. they use their usual sales & marketing techniques on how to approach a lead.

          6. Mark buys property offered by one of Substantia or NSPI or Equity. One of them updates lead status to "converted" while the other update the lead as "Unrealised"

          7. Ozbargainer gets notified of lead status ( one converted and 2 unrealised )

          8. We will bring up a mechanism to exchange payment details and the $5000 or $3000 gets paid

          9. A rating / review mechanism is triggered for both networker( ozbargainer) and the business( Substantia or NSPI or Equity)

          End of story… rinse and repeat…

          There does not exist currently a service in the market for a ozbargainer to do the same.. It isn't simple to approach a business and ask them what they will pay for a quality lead.. it isn't easy and has got several barrier of entry..

          Our solution has eliminated these barriers and ozbargainers can easily share information and be rewarded for it. Correct me if I am wrong in any of these assumptions.

          PS : thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts mate..

        • the-mal on 02/12/2014 - 13:16

          waiting for a big contract from a SW dev lead I gave to get signed( 10K commission for 10 mins work, not kidding

          I believe that, because you're in IT (I'd assume). The 10k isn't for your 10 mins work, it's you leveraging your industry contacts. Knowledge you've developed over years of networking and industry experience. Someone outside of IT wouldn't have that knowledge or contacts. That's where this falls down for me still. You're pitching it to laymen but it's only going to be financially rewarding for experts such as yourself.

          There does not exist currently a service in the market for a ozbargainer to do the same.. It isn't simple to approach a business and ask them what they will pay for a quality lead.. it isn't easy and has got several barrier of entry..

          Some things have a barrier to entry for a reason. Part of the reason for leads is quality assurance. Business won't accept people selling leads if they walk off the street because it's low quality and low quantity. Your solution potentially ramps up the quantity, but the quality is still a major unknown.

          Businesses don't pay money for something they could do themselves. They're not paying for your time, they're paying for your information. And even if you get over the ethical implications of "selling" your friends and acquaintances to businesses for money (I refuse spotters fees from recruiters for this reason) you've got to be giving them quality information (good leads). And if you have this, I'd wager it means you're already in industry and could be getting these commissions with or without your website.

          All just my 2 cents, I appreciate you walking me through the idea. Will be interested to hear how you get on and wish you all the best of luck with it! Your website does look really good and it'd be a cool idea if it could get a big userbase.

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 13:35

          @the-mal:
          My being in IT was purely incidental… met the person at a event and he had a problem with his current dev people.. There were 60 other people at the event and 800+ people at group's web page.. he had openly posted asking for help.

          I asked if I can get some of my contacts to talk to him and he was fine. Informed 3 businesses on carrotleads, they all pitched( proposal/ tender etc) alongwith 9 other businesses..
          one of the businesses on carrotleads has won the contract… and now need to wait for money to transfer and then I get paid for acting as a finder..

          So I didn't have to leverage any of my IT skills, just had to empathize with his situation and collect information.

          Now talking of ethics, I would disclose to close friends and offer to share the rewards… the rewards are for my time, no different to a sales person's commission or salary.

          My friend or any prospect should always looks after their self-interest and use a businesses services only if it is a good fit for him/her. This is not a referral, so I am not qualifying the lead for the prospect but doing it for the business.

          The business in the above example would not have got a sniff of my lead contact cause they play in different circles and are very thankful for my efforts. They just saved them selves cold calling 100+ cold leads to get this one qualified lead. So this is an additional sales strategy for them and not the only one.

          I have very low problem with businesses signing up for our service. Its the networkers who baffle me.. :) Some of my challenges are cause of established ways of people having always done business… So looks like I have to have a huge education effort to push my concept..

          Having explained the process, is the concept clear to you now?

          About your question, networkers are giving leads to different businesses but I always want to see more leads :) . Will come with time I guess..

  • the-mal on 02/12/2014 - 13:58

    So I didn't have to leverage any of my IT skills, just had to empathize with his situation and collect information.

    You were at an event, I'd wager an IT or business/entrepreneur event, talking to a guy about development work. Imagine a man off the street, I walk up to him to talk about application development…he won't have a clue what I'm talking about or the process or jobs involved and god forbid I get technical (start talking environments, frameworks, languages) - information you'd need to know to target the correct development business. You absolutely used your IT skills. Someone not in the industry wouldn't have been able to help in the way that you did.

    I have very low problem with businesses signing up for our service. Its the networkers who baffle me.. :) Some of my challenges are cause of established ways of people having always doing business.

    That could be telling you something though. The pitch is clear to a business - "Pay us and you could get better leads!". That's an easy sell. To a "networker" though…you make it sound easy but I have a feeling you're glossing over a lot of the skills that you have that may make this easy for you that a regular ozbargainer wouldn't have.

    I guess once you build it up enough to have networkers preaching for you, saying how much they made and how easy it was. But even as I type that it starts to sound like some shonky get rich quick scheme.

    I think the reason you're having trouble pitching this to laypeople is because it's confusing, broad and makes a lot of promises that sound too good to be true (like making 10k for 10 mins work).

    Is there a way you could pitch it to the public that made it sounds more simple and clear? Maybe something to think about. As I said it sounds like you've got it very well fleshed out, it's just a tricky idea to communicate. You want potential networkers to feel enthused and want to sign up ASAP, and that's not the feeling I got (but only you know your signup numbers, so maybe it's just me!).

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 14:16

      You are right when you phrase it that way… but I talked to him because he posted on the group's home page asking for help. At the same event, there were sales people, designers, developers, accountants, people with an idea. I was there as I am an entrepreneur.

      Just now I am giving a lead for printer. Someone wants to print a book and I have offered to connect them to a printer. They just gave me their contact details, all I need to do is post the lead to a printer on our platform. Melbourne has 1000's of printers and 99% of them don't know about this lead but the ones of carrotleads will know about it.

      No different to me posting a ozbargain deal I come across in officeworks… I don't go to officework searching of a ozbargain deal but when I see them I share it.. same concept, except I get paid at the end of some of these leads..

      You are perfectly right on the last 3 para's …

      and I have tried to be transparent all the way through… for the printer lead, the reward may be anywhere from $50- $500 for the same 5-10 mins work if it works out…

      all I asking of networkers is to know that carrotleads is a place to get paid for acting as a finder. Don't need to do anything different( unless they want to do more of it), if you see an opportunity, get details, share it on carrotleads…

      Yeah I am thinking about how to make it simple and clear and this exercise has been helpful for that… I know I would have no issues with traction but am racking my brains on how much more simpler can I get…

  • adamren on 02/12/2014 - 14:20

    Anyone heard of Equity. Looks like a 'Let me tell you how to get rich by giving me lots of money first' pump and dump type investment seminar.

    Sign up today and get a free set of steak knives.

    Dodgy as.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 14:25

      Don't sign up as a customer for sure…

      But they are a business and wants customers… if you can find their prospective customers, they are willing to reward you for the time/effort… they have stated their offer clearly on the profile I linked above. You are free to contact them and get clarifications if you need them..

      if you are convinced they are bad news and think no one should do business with them, don't give them information about prospective customers… Over a period of time, they will drop off the radar.

      • adamren on 02/12/2014 - 14:30
        -1

        My ethics would preclude me from feeding sheep to the slaughter.

        Guess some people are just out to make a quick buck.

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 14:34

          So would mine.. and will make up my own mind as to what is a slaughter…

          PS : Ozbargain is for people looking to make/save a quick buck..

        • adamren on 02/12/2014 - 18:51

          @finderX:

          Dunning Kruger.

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 19:03

          @adamren: you could be right mate..

          how would you feel if your "quick buck" could be donated to a charity at the end. Cause you can do that on our platform…

          WIN-WIN-WIN for all

          whoever you passed on a prospect, sign up as customer only if they believe it is right for them - WIN

          business gets new customer - WIN

          you the finder gets to donate your rewards to a charity - WIN

      • onlyletters on 02/12/2014 - 15:44

        Ok Shabu

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 16:00

          I could be the other founder :)

        • onlyletters on 02/12/2014 - 16:11

          @finderX: prolly, some tips, regarding negative comments, its best not to add fuel to the fire :)

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 16:27

          @eXtremist: didn't realise I was doing that mate.. educate me pls.

        • onlyletters on 03/12/2014 - 09:34
          +4

          @finderX: will charge for education

  • onlyletters on 02/12/2014 - 15:42

    You are aware pyramid schemes are illegal in Australia?

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 15:59

      I would hope so…

      and the context for that question here is???

      unless you somehow thought ozbargain deal posting is pyramid scheme, cause we are the exact same concept, just for leads and more private..

      again I am curious as to why you got that idea as these are some of the judgements I encounter and I need to figure out why so I can overcome them..

  • snook on 02/12/2014 - 20:40

    He's trying to build a website he can sell.

    If someone I know wants something, I am only going to recommend them to a service provider I know. I'm not throwing them onto some random website full of crap. The end.

    and i'm sorry but your lead into here >Finder's Fee Paid for discovering property buyers, Interested?

    Anyone who knows someone well enough to pass on details will just tell the other person how to save some money.

    This is a huge fail.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 22:07
      +2

      Thanks for your comments. But I think you have been too quick to judge… Yes I run a business and I want it to succeed.. not a crime in most people's book, I guess..

      You are taking the line that you only give referrals and not leads… fair enough, when signed in as a networker, you will get access to a referral link for each business listed with us.

      for eg. This is a referral/affiliate link for a web dev shop is below and it is linked to my networker account
      http://carrotleads.com/refer.php?code=50jRFP9zDxGhU6c|53iSQH9JYigpw

      Lets imagine 2 scenarios( we target the 2nd scenario and can handle the 1st too)

      1. My friend wants to redevelop his website and I send him the above link because I think these guys can help him… My friend uses that affiliate link which will redirect him to the businesses website. He thinks they are the best option for him and uses their services, I get the rewards this business has promised. No different to a normal affiliate setup..
        Or I can ask my friend to self-refer and get the additional discount if he indeed goes with the provider
        or I give lead and we split the rewards…

      2. Someone posts on ozbargain or a networking web page.. "looking for a wordpress ecommerce developer/designer to help create an on line clothing store? Know anyone? email me at [email protected] "
        This is information the zillions of web dev agencies in Melbourne want and if you are a networker you can share it across to one or more web dev agencies on carrotleads, maybe the same guys as the one mentioned above for affiliate link
        http://carrotleads.com/invite.php?code=53iSQH9JYigpw

      I have tried to handle each situation, each objection ( tip : learnt from Joel Spolsky's articles ) and provided a solution…

      Can you point out where we have gone wrong in either of these scenarios…

      • snook on 03/12/2014 - 14:21
        +1

        Just say I overhear or see that someone wants something and I refer them. They then get a cold call from someone trying to sell them a service. No one likes that. And, there's no way you're tying my name into something/someone I know nothing about and have never used myself. No way in hell.

        Truly, I am sorry but I don't know what planet you're on. This is like anything online these days where is says 'refer a friend you'll make x'.

        Well I don't want to refer friends to unknown things. I can tell them about it IF i've used it and that's it.

        No one cares about x except sociopaths and idiots.

        Also, no offence but your language/English/grammar is lacking something that I wouldn't go for upfront in any form. Eg, you used the word 'outrage' when there was no outrage. Outrage is quite a strong word, totally unnecessary in the context. This was just one example that I picked out.

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 03/12/2014 - 14:37

          Thanks for your kind words :) but you are mixing referrals with leads again… I gave you a second scenario of a lead…

          You are being let down by your imagination mate… again don't pass leads on stuff that you are uncomfortable on… that's madness.. do it for whatever is comfortable…

          Lets say you overhear that your office building is pissed off at their cleaning people and most likely are looking at new contractors… That's information Australia's commercial cleaning companies wants to know…

          Your options are to google for them, locate their contact details , call one by one and offer your qualified lead and negotiate a reward

          or

          You can jump on carrotleads and do this search
          http://carrotleads.com/search.php?t=cleaning

          Up pops this company http://carrotleads.com/invite.php?code=amcclean

          Share the opportunity and wait to be paid 5% if they succeed in landing your office building as a customer…

          PS : cleaning contracts for big building are quite pricey, so 5% off it is a decent chunk of change for 5 mins work from you…

          Your problem is mixing referrals with leads and thinking you know what suits a prospect better than the prospect themselves.

        • snook on 03/12/2014 - 19:33

          @finderX:

          No I'm not, there is absolutely nothing but goodwill to tie the lead giver to the landed contract. It is completely open to corruption of the monetary kind.

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 04/12/2014 - 09:52

          @snook: no different to eBay or any shop owner…

          I can buy a HTC mobile phone on eBay and it can breakdown in a week's time or be a toy phone…

          I depend on the goodwill of the seller to keep his promise.. I can leave a bad rating but if the seller wanted to be a one-time wonder, there is not much I can do…

          In those examples you would have lost real money.. on carrotleads if that happens you would have lost a few minutes of your time… still a loss but not a big one…

          but the client would have lost their credibility and our algorithms will start ranking them lower and lower, plus we have an internal policy to deal with bad ratings wich woudl be booting them off the platform…

          Since you can give a lead anonymously ( anonymous to the business, not to the platform), the business is never sure if the lead was a self-referred lead or lead by someone close to the action… so the risks they run in acting BAD is huge…

          This is redundant but none of the businesses I have talked to have even hinted at not keeping their promise.. they do this day in and out.. better to have 90% of something than 100% of nothing….

  • quirki on 02/12/2014 - 22:54
    +1

    You are the middleman. The finder's fee and your own cut has to ultimately come from someone's pocket - the referee's. Also, what you are doing is no different from affiliate marketing sites/MLM.

    When I refer a mate to a service provider, I always make sure to have worked with them in some capacity and am confident in their ability to deliver. It would be weird (and unethical) for me to refer a person to a service I've not personally used just for a finder's fee, only to have it end badly.

    TLDR; friendship is worth more than a finder's fee.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 02/12/2014 - 23:09

      By "you", I am assuming you are implying the carrotleads platform. If so, that is not true..

      Anyone can act as the "middleman" using our solution and we at carrotleads has provided the tools and the analytics. There does not exist a tool in the market for this purpose.

      The platform takes no cut from the finder's fee. This fees is between the finder / networker and the business. We make our money by businesses subscribing to our service.

      The business is able to offer a finder's fee from money they save on sales prospecting.

      About referring only if you have worked in some capacity, you are right… But we don't target this.. not our aim but we can handle it to some extent as I elaborated here https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/172583#comment-2410940
      Plus you can give anonymous leads, so risks from referrals are further lowered. Maybe its not a friend, a frenemy or a irritating uncle or a dude from the next apartment, whatever… Again, unlike a referral you are protected as you are talking to business and not to the prospect.

      TL:DR Referrals go south many a time and damage friendships, give a anonymous lead and save friendship :) naa joking, we don't target referrals but can handle them :)

      PS : you mentioned MLM, can you elaborate on the how our service is similar.. even on a cursory basis…

  • [Deactivated] on 03/12/2014 - 00:38
    +1

    if a friend of mine pops my detail into the "leads", I will de-friend them permanently. The concept sounds good, but I am not convinced. As someone has mentioned earlier, why would they pay a 3rd party when they can obtain those leads.

    Few questions from me:

    • How do you (carrot) ensure they are legitimate and not piggy backing off some scheme?
    • Meeting various compliance requirements where applicable, such a credit provider looking for leads are licensed credit providers.
    • How do you (carrot) as a platform provider ensure that your customer (lead requestor) will safe guard private information *** FYI *** you link to the privacy policy is broken, or not re-directing approprately

    This reminds of me Uber, a platform that links a "provider" to a "recipient". Some might find it good, but the old fashion me is yet to accept the new concept.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 03/12/2014 - 01:17
      +1

      Thanks mate for checking us out.

      I try to be as upfront as possible, so feel free to ask questions… I gave lead examples earlier and business can't ordinarily access those leads. One of the printers I gave a lead(as a networker) to would not have known otherwise that someone was looking for a quote to print 300 color books and hence they have finder's fee paid to 3rd party.. Sales people are costly and SMB's can't have a lot of them… Networkers act as a finder or sales scout for these businesses, a way to crowd source sales leads….

      now let me try to answer yours

      1. I am assuming you are asking about legitimacy of leads. Businesses can rate networkers at the end plus they can block networkers giving unqualified leads. We have algorithms that will escalate any unusual activity with the end play being suspension of networker's account. The usual challenges with sockpupetting or astroturfing and we are constantly refining these steps.

      2. not clear about this.. the license I believe is to deal with providing credit advice.. the suitability of a business for a prospect will be decided by the prospect and not the networker. We trust everyone to look after their self-interest and if they do so, it will all play out just fine…

      3. Ours is standard privacy and comply with Australian fed privacy guidelines, will fix that privacy link. In future when we start acting from other jurisdictions, we will have to tailor it further. We safeguard our data as diligently as we can. The responsibility of data taken by a business rests with them and would be similar to the businesses purchasing list of cold leads at $4 a pop from lead gen companies.

      Sometime I pitch ourselves as a Uber or Yammer for business leads, but we have our differences in model…

      PS : People are fixated with friend's giving leads. Most likely your friend is going to ask you to self-refer or give you a referral link.

      But unfortunately a not so good friend may do so, and they can provide a anonymous lead. You would be no wiser as business would also have no identity details, unless your "friend" was the only one with the information. Not saying that is right but I can't prevent that from happening.

      I am curious about this outrage… You have a need, maybe you want a new web site or a new energy provider or new solar panels or you are a sonographer looking for a change.

      Someone aware of this need can share your information with a business, business contacts you and ordinarily you should be all ears.I love getting energy related calls when I get bill shock. My impression is people are pleased when that happens and that is the reason the cold-calling industry exists even though we all hate cold-calls. Cause we love them, when we have a need.

      You will choose a business only if they satisfy your need, so why should it bother you that someone got paid a sales commission for taking some sales scouting effort.

  • expertreader on 03/12/2014 - 12:31
    +3

    Wow, this guy should be a "think positive" speaker. People are trying to thrash his ideas but he is calm as ever and giving him reasons to change their mind.

    I still don't understand the how he would make money but hats off for being calm and trying to talk people out of their negative thinking about the concept.

    Your answers taught me something new today- you are an amazing sales man( in my books).

    Back to eneloop bargains.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 03/12/2014 - 13:03

      Obviously I need to improve :) but mate, thanks for putting a smile on me…

      Our pricing page clearly states we make money from a subscription model and I have mentioned it a few times here.
      http://carrotleads.com/pricing.php

      This has been a useful exercise to understand better the objections in people's mind… the main thing is the feeling it is too good to be true…

      I guess ozbargainers will jump at it if I showcase the many options to make $50 from 10 mins work vs $5000 from maybe the same 10 mins work… or maybe its an Aussie thing and I should be pitching this to the Yanks :)

      • the-mal on 04/12/2014 - 08:53

        I guess ozbargainers will jump at it if I showcase the many options to make $50 from 10 mins work vs $5000 from maybe the same 10 mins work… or maybe its an Aussie thing and I should be pitching this to the Yanks :)

        Because the reality is 99.999% of your users will never make $5000 for 10 minutes work for work that requires effectively no skill. The reality is producing quality leads takes time, patience, expertise and effort. You seem to have all of those things which is why you see this as an easy way to make money. You are an entrepreneur, you network often, you are in touch with lots of people who are setting up businesses and thus have lots of "lead" requirements.

        Normal people aren't like that. I have never ever had someone come and tell me that they are looking to print a book, or looking to hire a new cleaning company, or looking to throw away their dev team (and I'm an IT manager).

        I think your challenge here is going to be to accept the feedback you're getting, that your pitch is off the mark for the "normal man". This is good info - if you pitch this to those in your entrepreneurial/startup circle you'll probably get completely different (and unrepresentative) feedback.

        The vast majority of people would have to spend a lot of time and effort to "network" and provide your system with leads that anyone would want to buy. And ultimately you're encouraging the same kind of behaviour that Tupperware does - for people to dob in their friends to businesses. I would definitely have a problem if my "friend" or colleague or whoever sold my information to a company. It's dodgy. If you're doing it in my best interests, then just TELL me about the company and let me make the contact. If I got cold called because of one of my friends, they'd be off the Christmas card list really quickly.

        Your enthusiasm and politeness here is awesome and really commendable. I hope you take the criticism for what it is, constructive, because it's really easy to get caught up in ones own idea to the point where you convince yourself it's revolutionary - even though the public (your customers) are saying they wouldn't use it.

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 04/12/2014 - 09:26

          Thanks for your comments… and rest assured I am taking all feedback on board.. Each of the objection that has been raised here has been handled, I have a solution for each of them…

          We only aim to promote the tool at people who network, talk to a lot of people… its targeted at the extrovert and not the introvert…

          well if the introvert is willing to trawl message board and engage with people( networking ) then they are an extrovert in our books…

          The way I see it is people don't have to do anything different, that what they do already other than just becoming aware that information can be traded for rewards… like when you buy a new Blue car, you then begin to recognise all the people who have the same blue car…( there is a name for that)

          Ozbargain trades deal information for rewards( goodwill), many ozbargainers are now trained to look for deals when they shop, deals on stuff they may not be interested on but someone else maybe..

          I need to work on discouraging this impression of friend dobbing… May be I need to make it clearer that one should provide lead information only if they have permission.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/12/2014 - 22:41

    Have you checked the legalities regarding your business? "Anonymous" tips especially.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 04/12/2014 - 02:06

      yes, I have.

      Ozbargain allows anonymous posting, I have no clue of your identity but the platform knows you( email, IP address etc ).. Same principle.

      I can start a private conversation with you now and give you a tip which will be same as any anonymous tip on our platform..

      • the-mal on 04/12/2014 - 09:00

        There would also be privacy legalities to consider. If I provide you information in confidence (that I'm looking at buying a house) and you engage in a business transaction using that information without my knowledge - is that okay?

        For certain financial products this would definitely be illegal. Not sure what the regulations are around real estate. There are also the Privacy Principles to consider, that if you're collecting information for a certain purpose you're unable to sell it on for a secondary purpose without expressed permission. This blurs the line quite a bit with what you're doing as your networkers are harvesting information in a personal context, then using that information in a business transaction to make money.

        The principle sounds a bit deceptive, surely you can see that. You come to me and chat to me about needing some help with something (you're not approaching me as a business, but as a friend). I then pick a business based on the size commission I will get (not on how well they will act in your interests) and sell your information to them. You think I operated in your best interests, the business thinks I operated in their best interests…and I did neither. I was solely motivated by the money (carrot) that I was getting. If I had a friend doing this, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 04/12/2014 - 09:33

          I think I need to do a better job of discouraging deceptive practices.. I provide no safe harbour provisions.. if someone rocks up with a legal warrant, I will disclose all relevant data..

          In the example you gave if you did that you acted in your best interest and the business acts in their best interest and when I get the call, I will act in my best interest… after all I have a need and here is a business trying to satisfy my need… I will use them if they really do the job. .. but if this was private information, then I would approach you and ask if you had referred me to the company.. I may have asked the company as well… and depending on context and data I may have you off the christmas list… but a very unlikely scenario IMO…

          as I said in the other post, may be I need to make it clearer that one should provide lead information only if they have permission.

          In the lead example I gave, I specifically told them I will ask a contact to get in touch and if that is okay. I share the lead only if they said okay..

          the other times I share a lead is when explicit permission has been granted when some one posts a public message like this

          "looking to print 300 copies of a book… Around 150 pages a book, left it too late and need some help. Know someone, contact me at [email protected] or 043222221"

          PS : just added a checkbox that a networker has to check to inform if the data is private or confidential data … Will wire it up better and tighten it..

        • the-mal on 04/12/2014 - 10:23
          +1

          @finderX:

          the other times I share a lead is when explicit permission has been granted when some one posts a public message like this
          "looking to print 300 copies of a book… Around 150 pages a book, left it too late and need some help. Know someone, contact me at [email protected] or 043222221"

          That I'd have no problems with. That example you're working simply as a middle man connecting a publicised need with a publicised service.

          The side I have issue with is using information of a personal need (not shared publicly - so a friend telling you they're looking to sell their house) to financially benefit yourself potentially without declaring your vested interest (in fact the system works best if you HIDE your vested interest because your friend would trust you).

          First scenario, no issue, perfectly reasonable. Second scenario (which seems to be your original pitch here) feels dodgy.

          Edit: Awesome to see you're tweaking the site based on feedback! I really hope you get traction because you have a great attitude!

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/12/2014 - 06:11

          @finderX:
          "as I said in the other post, may be I need to make it clearer that one should provide lead information only if they have permission."

          This is the bit I was concerned about. There are many regulatory requirements in marketing and you need to ensure your website AND the companies you share info with abide by them.

          Having consent from the anonymous tipper does not give you consent to market freely to anonymous lead…

          Example. Anonymous person tips "John Does" details on your website. John isn't happy about being contacted. What provisions do you have setup to allow John Doe to stop being visited or called and have his personal information destroyed?

        • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 08/12/2014 - 23:57

          @zeggie: Thanks for your comment mate… apologies for the late comment.

          The challenges are indeed there and clients who use our services are expected to follow the law at all times.

          In the example you gave, John should tell whoever contacted him to not get in touch again. This can be one of our clients and they are expected to follow the law… If they intimate back to us that the lead was unqualified and john was not happy about the contact, the details will get deleted… this will be reflected in the rating the networker receives from the client business at the end of a lead's lifecycle.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/12/2014 - 10:46

    I have been following this and I can say his attitude is awesome. I hope it all works out for him but even if it does not, his attitude is going to carry him far.

    • Store RepfinderX @ Carrotleads on 05/12/2014 - 11:59

      Thanks mate.

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