My partner is a contractor to a medical practice and pays his tax himself.
The annual tax bills are up too $800k so I want to make sure we have the best out there.
Suggestions for best credit card out there that will give us the best points for Qantas ff with no monthly caps.
Westpac just blocked points from ATO payments last month so we are shopping for something to use just for tax while still keeping out Earth Black card for everyday.
Any suggestions?
Goodness, 800k, far out, man, my saving wouldn't even reach that in 20 years.
Does ATO even accept CC payments?
The big banks have worked out people are getting so many points on tax bills they have stopped rewarding points from ATO.
You have to pay a fee from memory, and it's not tax deductible (there's even an article on it somewhere on the ATO site from memory).
you mean the ATO link that says that is tax deductible in quite a few cases(especially business related)?
https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Deductions-for-business/In-d…
Thanks Kenb0. I have to admit I'm surprised by this because I remember researching this a few years back when I was settling my end of year income tax and HECS debt, and the point on the ATO website was that the payment of tax was not an allowable deduction as it was not incurred in the earning of taxable income but rather, from the settlement of the liability. Either way, I stand corrected.
All good, we're always learning something new everyday, especially here on Ozbargain :) Otherwise the world would be a pretty boring place.
Also, I would also interpret the following statement from that link:
"you incurred it as a result of paying an income tax liability and you did not borrow money from your card provider to make the payment"
as meaning that if I pre-loaded my credit card with cash beforehand so that it was in positive territory(eg. I have a card with $10k limit and balance is 0, I dump $20k cash in there, so I have $20k debit balance), then use the card to pay the income tax, then I'm not borrowing money from my card provider to make the payment, and hence it'll be tax deductible :)
Although not as much in tax I know that ANZ has started capping QFF points on their CC aswell. We just changed ours to the ANZ Frequent Flyer Black (Amex/Visa) which does not have any monthly caps on the amount of points you can earn.
Thank you. Never seen this site before.
Yes.
I pay all my ATO tax,BAS Tax, State government Land tax using my Coles Platinium Source Card for points.There are surcharges for using the CC.ATO is the highest rate.Visa/MasterCard(effective from 1 September 2013)0.42%, It is a claimmable expense for some people.
pretty sure you can bpay the ATO, no surcharge then
I know the CBA don't award CC points for BPay payments
can you confirm this with just a bit more information…
This is specific to CBA Amex but gives the idea:
https://www.commbank.com.au/support/faqs/683.html
Another forum about the matter:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1989308
pretty sure you can bpay the ATO, no surcharge then
You can bpay the ATO -but only Cheque or Savings
ATO accepts Visa, Mastercard and Amex online or over the phone.
Card type Fee
Visa/MasterCard
(effective from 1 September 2013)
0.42%
American Express
(effective from 1 August 2012)
1.45%
Also:
"The service accepts payments between $10 and $50,000. You can make multiple payments."
You pay $800k in taxes and you are worried about points???
Flame suit on :)
@ilsan + 1 - first thing I thought too when I saw this thread pop up……headwobble!
Troll !!! New account signed up today ?
How so? I only just found this site. Made the profile to ask this question.
Gross - $1,694,013.82
not bad at all.
Makes me wonder why I work. That's what 14 years of Uni gets ya
An arts degree?
Here come the hordes…
Yet still on Ozbargain lol
Thanks for the tips everyone.
Specialist surgeons in rural areas do get paid well.
We were using the Westpac Earth Black for 0.625/$1
I was looking at the Citibank cards. They don't seem to have limits on point caps - will have to call to confirm points from ATO
Citibank don't pay points on CC payments to ATO. They used to but stopped some time ago.
Yes, big no no on calling banks regarding ATO points!
Please head to http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au all your questions and answers will be there!
Citibank no longer give points on ATO spend this stopped about a year ago…
This is why we can't have nice things :(
Citibank does not give you points for any government related bill payment. I know from experience.
Citibank has cracked down ATO payments i'm pretty sure you don't get points for ATO payments.
I think the ANZ / CBA are still fine, around simiilar earn rates for mastercard, AMEX at 1.5 points per dollar, paying $11600 in fees (AMEX) or $3360 for Master/Visa. Points wise, you'll get a whopping 1.2 million points QFF for AMEX and at most 800k points for mastercard.
ANZ black is probably your best option with unlimited capping and earning 1.5 with AMEX and 0.75 for VISA.
CBA has a cap of 500k points. (see http://www.ausbt.com.au/the-best-of-black-the-top-frequent-f…) for reference.
So if you're willing to spend over 11k in fees alone then CBA/ANZ might be one good option.
for master card for 1 to 1 points
Has to be Woolworths Everyday Rewards (unlimited capping) or Macquarie which is (200k cap)
Hope this helps.
Best not to call the ATO and alert them to this as it will spoil it for everyone. Just look and search for something that covers government charges.
Have spent the last 2 hours researching.
Best options I've found is Macquarie visa
1:1
Card fee $200/ year
Balance transfer offer of 0% for 9months
Or Woolworths
1:1
Card fee $89/year
With a bonus 16000 qantas points.
Macquarie's no good, it has a limit: "You will earn one Qantas Point for each dollar spent on eligible purchases, up to an annual maximum of $200,000 of spend." Also Woolworths is changing providers and increasing to $139/year.
Is this the Woolies EDR card? I've heard that they clamp down if you start putting a lot of ato payments through on that card and will cancel your card. See the results from AFF forum on using that card too much.
Why would a a tax accountant know anything about QFF points?
It was a question about the best way for the OP to pay a tax bill. This is precisely what tax accountants specialise in. It's curious that this does not seem logical to many.
The reason why it appears this does not seem logical to many(and no one is bothering to answer) is because this isn't the question the OP is asking. The question from OP was "Best CC to Pay ATO Bill on for Qantas FF Points?". The OP is NOT asking for ways to minimise the tax liability, which is what tax accountants specialise in. Its not their specialty to know what CCs return X amount of frequent flyer points for Y amount paid to ATO, its hardly their concern. I've actually spoken to a few accountants who weren't even aware you could pay a tax liability with a credit card.
The ATO already provide a way for people to pay their tax bill by credit card, its even referred to in the following link(https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Payments-to-ATO/How-to-pay/) as a "preferred method". There is no grey area or illegality about it.
OP's only concern is how to maximise the points that can be generated from paying their massive tax liability which they've already accepted is part and parcel of having a massive income.
@Kenb0:
I said:
"It was a question about the best way for the OP to pay a tax bill."
Then you said:
"… this isn't the question the OP is asking."
You are wrong; that is exactly what the OP was asking. Then you went on to say:
"The OP is NOT asking for ways to minimise the tax liability…"
I have no idea why you mentioned that; I certainly never mentioned tax liability anywhere. It's a bit pathetic really, putting words into my mouth, then refuting them! There's clearly no point attempting any form of dialogue with you, as your tactic seems to be to pretend to misinterpret what I have said, then misrepresent it entirely in a post of your own, then refute it! Quite bizarre.
Again, I'm going to try and explain this in as simple terms as I can because you're not grasping it. The OP asked "Best CC to Pay ATO Bill on for Qantas FF Points?" See that part that is bolded which is what you're conveniently ignoring over and over again? The part about "FOR QANTAS FF POINTS"? That's what the OP is asking for, the best way to pay an ATO tax bill SPECIFICALLY in a way to get the most Qantas FF points.
Look through my comment again, where in any way did I say YOU said anything about tax liability?? I never put any words in your mouth. I mentioned tax liability myself because you were recommending a tax accountant to answer this question, and my point was that tax accountants specialise in minimising tax liability, NOT how you actually make the tax payment which is what the OP is asking. They don't care if you pay by credit card, by bpay, using pennies, whatever.
And yes I agree, trying to attempt any form of dialogue with you is quite hard and IMO, impossible. You seem to not be able to read whole sentences in plain English and comprehension of the subject matter seems to be lacking, so there's not much point really continuing this with you. The OP has gotten the information they want, surprisingly enough probably not from tax accountants because THEY DON'T CARE HOW YOU PAY THE TAX
"think the ATO may have 'put a lid' on this in 2013". ATO don't care how they get the money they're owed, they charge a surcharge for CC payments and this goes to the payment processor and ATO get their money. In fact, making it possible for people to get points via paying by card has probably made people want to pay their tax on time more(it has in my case ie. I have to pay tax anyway, might as well get something out of it)
Its the banks/credit providers who care about this as they're paying points out their wazoo.
ATO do not care about QFF points.
They are not the ones putting a stop to this.
Stop typing lies.
..has it occurred to you to use a tiny fraction of your apparently extensive wealth
There is no means tests at OzBargain. It's not Centrelink.
It is a good question, as brings in issues of CC providers capping total points, and getting some benefit of an unpleasant payment.
Even if the OP sought an answer from a "Tax Expert" at least here at OZBargain it's shared.
Don't under estimate the collective knowledge of OzBargainers.
OK point taken Baz, but what I was suggesting in the fraction of my post that you've chosen to quote is that it would be good value-for-money for the OP to devote a miniscule proportion of the amount of money in question for a small amount of time with a qualified expert on the issue, to get some actual definite answers. Paying $80 for a 1/2-hour session with an expert, to find out what the most advantageous way to settle an $800,000 debt, for example, seems like the logical choice to me.
Re this bit of your post:
"Even if the OP sought an answer from a "Tax Expert" at least here at OZBargain it's shared."
Don't forget that my original post included this:
'But I could be wrong. If you find a way to do it, please "share the love", and post it here in this thread.'
I was actually hoping a tax agent knowledgeable in this area would contribute some definitive information to the thread. That hasn't happened yet though. All that seems to be clear so far is that (as I suggested right at the start, and was resoundingly negged for suggesting) it is no longer the case that you can simply pay off a large tax debt with a certain type of CC and score a huge amount of QFF points. I realise it used to be the case, but it has not been for a while now.
Re the "collective knowledge of OzBargainers", I note that many creative suggestions have emerged from others in the thread (buying up hundreds of "EFTPOS" cards, using an accountant as a sort of "middle-man", etc.) but none seem ideal and/or guaranteed to work in this situation.
I would love to hear from a qualified expert (tax-agent) out there if there is one who's part of the OzB community, on this relatively simple question:
What's the best legal/legit' way to accrue QFF points in the course of making a large income tax payment to the ATO?
How do you know the op isn't going to a financial adviser as well?
I'm pretty sure most people who use the internet to answer questions look at more than one avenue.
Places like ozbargain/whirlpool are excellent places to begin research.
I still question why you think a tax-agent would have any knowledge of the best legal/legit way of accruing QFF points when making income tax payments to the ATO. Any knowledge of that kind is incidental to their job, and is just as likely to come from any member of any other profession.
Accruing QFF points doesn't require any sort of qualifications or sanctioned expertise.
I agree a Tax agent should be the expert on this.
I also agree that it is likely Ozbargain will provide a more comprehensive knowledge base.
Never underestimate the ability of people to be crap at their job.
Have a look at the ANZ Black card (black is the new platinum). They are also giving a 50 k points sign up and are allowing 'government' charges. There is a fee, but it's still very cheap points.
Thanks Anna. Got this card last month just for the points.
Do you mean annual card fee or fee for government transactions?
The WOW card you mention is about to be taken over by HSBC and may stop government charges.
You mean taken from HSBC by Macquarie
Is it possible to pay your accountant the amount on your Qantas rewards card, and have them transfer the money to the ATO?
If you accountant does this, it would be time to look for a new accountant !
No accountant would be stupid enough let a cc fee of $800000 x (say) 1% = $8000, to be charged to his business.
Look at the cards attached to your mortgage. I have NAB platinum card that has a very high limit due to it being attached to my mortgage/offset account.
The card provides QFF points too!
Specialist medical professionals have my utter respect and are deserving of their $1m+ salaries. If you look into it, most really start earning this much at the age of 34/35 and it takes a hell lot of dedication/hours to get there! Good work
We have this card already so I'll give it a go and see. In the PDS it does state that government charges don't occur points. I'll make a small payment and see if I get points.
I rang them up specifically in relation to this card and they said as long as it is a purchase, i.e done via the ATO credit card website payment it will give points. It is the highest earn rate for QFF 1.5/$. It is also one of the ones with the lowest annual fee compare to others.
Westpac Black Altitude also says the same thing and we get points no problem.
When you say "this card", which are you referring to - the ANZ Black? A 'purchase' is everything but a cash advance so that's good.
Was replying to OP's comment about the NAB Platinum. Only bank AMEX that is changing is Altitude Black which halving rewards for ATO payments.
Called CBA as well, will reward ATO payments.
Specialist medical professionals have my utter respect and are deserving of their $1m+ salaries. If you look into it, most really start earning this much at the age of 34/35 and it takes a hell lot of dedication/hours to get there! Good work
It took me 15 years to get to a position where I can now call myself a 'specialist medical professional' in that I make the drugs these Dr's administer and prescribe. I earn 80k. While I'm by no means in it for the money, it sure would be nice if the monetary benefit of such jobs dedicated to the greater good was spread out more evenly throughout the medical industry.
I felt a strong urge to write this irrelevant to the topic at hand rant - my advance apologies.
Hence why govt health care spending in AU is unsustainable (a few doctor friends have told me that). Population is increasing and we are all living longer.
Sooner or later unfortunately we are going to be moving to a US style healthcare system (and perhaps education system too ) :(
Solution: Be an Ozbargainer and get ready with your savings :)
Ooops.. I first read it as 800 dollars and thought I'd do a research to find an answer for the question. Then I realised it's not 800 but 800k. I don't think you can find people dealing with that sort of money in this forum.
If you find a way to convert this amount to QFF it'll give you a good holiday for free. However if the big banks have already done this it would be hard to find a way around. Because in banking once a big one do something all others follow very soon. Unless there is a small credit union still let you covert it..
As most of them have limits on maximum, can't you get multiple cards from Macquarie, Woolworth, etc and split pay.
What about using the Qantas CASH card to Pay the ATO?
BPAY the $800k onto the card, then use the Qantas Cash Card to pay?
Think its $2 dollars per QFF point. so effectively $1 to 0.5 points. Wouldn't do it.
Not sure if it's relevant but have you tried the Qantas Cash Card? I know it's not a CC but still. :-)
This is a great idea. I'll have a look at ratios.
Sweeeet. In the PDS i read last night that is excludes 'government' charges. So it must be a hole.
Handy because we got black anz cards for the free 50k points.
Isn't BPAY considered cash advancement on the CC and your interest free periods are not applicable?
Depends on how the service provider treats the BPAY. I have quite a few bills I BPAY on my credit card and I don't get charged as a cash advance.
As per previous comments - ATO bPay is cheque or savings.
well, anyway let us know which cards you end up trying down the track.
If you pay at the post office would they know it's an ATO payment? Anyway with 800,000k tax bill I doubt you need the points anyway - sorry to be mean I'm sure you worked hard for it.
Buy $800,000 worth of eftpos gift cards at coles/woolies using your credit card and then spend the next few days/weeks using card after card to pay the ATO?
Good idea actually! Could buy on Amex if that worked.
Can we pay ATO using eftpos gift cards and not being charged cc fees?
Does anyone know if this would work?
Aust Post have started charging a surcharge for CC payments when paying council rates a few months ago.
Thats a lot of gift cards. Don't they only allow maximums of $500 per card?
Literally first world problems.
You would be surprised. Some of the wealthiest people I know are also the most savvy at extracting every last cent of value from every transaction. The money doesn't matter to them: it's the principle that counts.
Too true. I Actually work in a bank. This is my partners income. i don't understand all the comments about why do you care about points if we have this much income. Why not make every cent work. The rich never got rich by giving money away.
He's the hero OzBargain deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.
In this case, I suppose that is how they can be the first and not the second or third.
Not related, but good on the OP for studying hard and sacrificing a lot to be in the position he or she is in today. All the other comments about wealth, how to spend it, and doing more for society are just noise.
If they were spending frivolously, I'm sure someone else would complain too.
Agreed. Plus, the person is actually paying 800k in tax. He's giving back more than 20 times what the average-wage person gives back to society / our infrastructure / welfare, etc.
Suprided u can't minimise ur tax through a trust and other investments. I'd be looking into that. Rather than paying 800k and trying to make points see if u can pocket that money. Is neg gearing property or shares. Ect.
doctors probably wont have time to do research on those types of things… and asking a financial adviser is pretty much akin to throwing money away.
We have tried. As my partner is classed a a contractor he is taxed as personal income.
I'd still seek advise. U can offset personal income tax with property investments and shares. U make a lot but I fear our losing a lot too. My bro is into points too I can't stand them.
Ur both smart and educated so I wouldn't think it would be difficult to get a grasp on. Then again when ur making 10x more than I do I spose what do u care? Then again our looking to save on points. So I'm a bit baffled :)
U would def have to be paid well as a specialist esp in a regional or remote community.
Not all financial advisors are bad. Just most. Make sure ur investment portfolio is diversified.
Good advice, particularly for someone in a pure service industry like medical/allied health professions as the OP stated.
OP, if I were you guys I'd be looking around for a really good tax accountant…you'd be surprised the miracles they can work! ;)
This is what Grimsey says when they approach to new grads from med(or dental) school.
But the logic here is, you need to lose $1 to get 45c compensation. There's no free money at all.
I've seen folks lose hefty money. Bottom line, those are aggressive investments.
Try HSBC platinum QFF card.
As long as its for personal expenses then you should earn the points. If its used for business and they find out, the account will be closed.
Hey OP I wonder what your cc limit is :)
Have you ever thought about the AMEX Centurion Card? You can pretty much buy anything you want - literally.
what are you doing on ozbargain when ya have a hubby racking up an 800 k tax bill, dat boy be making some serious dough…
Have a read of this:
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=PSR/GA20044/NAT/…
There may be some fringe benefit tax consequences as a result.
"the points accumulated from a business relationship or business expenditure exceed 250,000 points per annum"
Being a contractor, I'd say it would depend on the employment arrangement.
Few examples to look at there
I met a guy once who runs a business that specialises in this subject. Business is called I Fly Flat. Worth a google and a call to him?
Linky. neil also met the iFlyFlat guy in March and they do concierge service to maximise your fly points. They probably know all the frequent fly programs inside out.
Hi all, can someone clarify:
if I use 'HSBC platinum QFF card' to pay the ATO, I will be charged a 0.42% CC fee, however are the QFF points earned worth the additional fee.
Thanks
Trying to figure this out too?
I pay a lot of tax also. From what I can see the CC fee makes it barely worth the trouble.
Using Amex Plat Edge Card you can get to 4% to 5% return so depends how you can use them.
I wish I had to pay 800k tax