Credit Card Surcharge on Total Bill...

ilostnemo on 23/08/2014 - 11:23

I went out to dinner last night, It was $75 per adult $37.50 per child, 2 Adults 2 Kids.

The bill came to $240ish,we had a drink as well.

We presented the cashier an entertainment book card which bought the bill down to $180ish, and I presented her
with a gift card $135ish which bought the bill down to $51ish.

She asked me how I would like to pay, I said credit card, and noticed the sign 1.65% on credit card payments.
She informed me of the charge and I worked it out to be about 90c so I said No problem.

She debited my card $55ish and I said how much was the surcharge, she said $4.00. I said that can't be right, she informed me since I was paying by credit card it works out the surcharge on the total bill. I said, you can't be serious, she informed me there was nothing that could be done and she had this argument with a guy last week. I said, there is something you can do, and that is refund me, if I had known that I would of paid by savings, she refunded it my credit card payment and put it through my savings.

I could imagine a group of 30, where everyone puts in cash and one person collects all the cash and puts the total on his credit card. OUCH.

TLDR Restaurant charges Credit Card surcharge on total of bill regardless if most is paid by another way ie cash.

General Discussion

Comments

  • c64 on 23/08/2014 - 11:49
    +13

    sounds like a scam and probably illegal, though i'm not a legal expert. i was under the impression they were only supposed to be recovering the fee they are in turn getting charged. you could contact fair trading and get their opinion if you are really bothered.

  • BlueDiesel on 23/08/2014 - 12:02
    +11

    This is my personal uneducated opinion (traveling for work at least 1/2 the year):

    I think all the credit card surcharges are a huge pile of BS. Simply to get more money out of people.
    Hotels for example, who pays their bill for a couple of days (ie easily >$1000 or more) or even for one day with cash or savings these days?
    Scam….same as bank fees, late fees etc. All just a "nice" way of milking……

    • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2014 - 13:45
      +2

      I think all the credit card surcharges are a huge pile of BS. Simply to get more money out of people.

      Yes and no IMO. The company I work for takes credit card payments for residential and small commercial clients. If they pay say $100 by AMEX it is processed by our credit card processing provider, who will only pass on say $98 of the payment. We absorb this cost, but if you were providing a very low margin service it'd be difficult not to pass it onto the end consumer.

      • thejew on 26/08/2014 - 12:01

        Thats why no one uses AMEX

        • Lukian on 26/08/2014 - 16:59
          +15

          That's why no one accepts AMEX.

          Fixed that for you.

          OzBargainers love using their AMEXs for cashback offers.

        • MATTDAMON on 27/08/2014 - 11:24

          I dunno, its suprising to see how many people have black amex (unlimited card)

        • McFly on 27/08/2014 - 12:21

          @Copie: I guess (many) others got it for 'free' like I did…

        • Kenb0 on 27/08/2014 - 20:28

          @Copie: Black amex or centurion(card made out of titanium)? Black amex is pretty easy to qualify for, its the centurion that is invite only(annual fee for about $5k a year in Oz)

        • MATTDAMON on 28/08/2014 - 00:00
          -1

          @Kenb0: Black amex and centurion are the same thing, people sometimes reference it because they have a black card, but in reality the only real black amex is centurion. But yes quite a few people i know have the card

        • McFly on 28/08/2014 - 11:29
          +1

          @Copie: No, they are not the same thing. The Centurion happens to black but a black card does not mean a Centurion.

      • ojm on 26/08/2014 - 15:37
        +4

        A $10 beer from the mini-bar is hardly low margin!

    • smpantsonfire on 25/08/2014 - 20:00
      +4

      You know what doesn't make sense? Is that the banks charge to use credit card, but nothing for cash transactions.

      Cash ultimately, causes the banks more work because they have to handle the money etc. Credit cards, all electronic, no 'real' handling needed. So why charge fees for making their work easier? Load of crap IMO

      • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2014 - 23:13
        +1

        Cards are definitely more convenient, but visa / MasterCard / Amex charge the banks for their clearing and payment services. These per transaction fees usually only rear their head though if you're doing something low margin like shopping at Aldi or JB Hifi where the merchant passes the fee to the consumer.

        Merchants like cash because it's instant - no waiting for payment and 100% of transaction value received. Despite needing to pay handling fees to security companies and the bank it's still attractive.

        As a consumer I hate paying cash - potentially free opportunities like credit card points and ING pay wave rebate are great money savers on the banks tab if you avoid incurring interest charges.

      • firestormx on 27/08/2014 - 19:22

        That's not entirely correct. Cash may require a bit of handling, but cash carries almost no risk. Once the merchant receives the cash, it's done.

        However, with credit card payments, transactions can be disputed up to 6 months after the transaction date. This presents quite a bit of risk for the bank and merchant. If someone disputes the transaction and the transaction is found to be valid and the merchant keeps the money, a lot of work will have gone into dealing with the dispute and merchants are charged $15 to $20 regardless of the outcome.

        Finally, if a merchant goes bust and you have not received the goods or received defective goods, you can just do a chargeback and the bank will refund you the disputed amount and take the loss or try and chase down the merchant.

        So yes, transactions being electronic makes it easier for the bank, but they also need to shoulder the risk of chargebacks and disputes, which justifies the fee.

    • macrocephalic on 26/08/2014 - 11:53
      +2

      I remember getting stung with a credit card surcharge (2.5% IIRC) when paying for accommodation at Jupiter's Casino - as if they're getting charged that much for their CC transaction processing!

  • PoorStudent on 23/08/2014 - 14:12
    +5

    Atrium Buffet at Crown Perth ;)
    They could have only charged the surcharge on the remaining amount but the host didn't know how to do it.

  • PissLUR on 23/08/2014 - 14:24
    +5

    Yeah. It had happened for me as well in Merry Well, Crown Perth.

    Used my $100 gift card and paid the remaining $8 on Paywave. I was charged CC surcharge on the whole $108 bill.

  • Almost Banned on 23/08/2014 - 15:42
    +6

    The whole point of allowing businesses to charge a CC surcharge was based on true cost recovery.
    If they are not being charged a merchant fee on the whole amount then there is no justification for charging a surcharge on the whole amount IMHO.
    I'd call the ACCC.

  • Shadow54 on 23/08/2014 - 15:52
    +9

    You have been ripped off: end of story!

    I'm old enough to remember that when credit cards were introduced the spiel to cardholders and merchants was along the following lines:
    The cardholder has the convenience of not needing cash while the merchant (restaurant in this case)gets payment straight away and gets more business by being able to cater for customers who do not have ready cash. So the story went. Merchants paid banks a fee, usually in the range 1% to 3.5% on credit card transactions. Customers were not asked to stump up the fee to compensate the merchant.
    But over the next 30 years the game changed, Gradually merchants started the game (read "rip off") of recovering the fees from the customers. The airlines were and still are in the forefront of this rip off. But now virtually every Dick, Tom and Harry is recovering the fee. It is a scam and wherever possible (and this is becoming increasing difficult) I try to stay away from such merchants.
    More power to us consumers!

    • Baysew on 23/08/2014 - 19:19
      +8

      It was the Reserve Bank that changed the rules in 2002, as part of their "reform". Previously merchants had to abide by the credit card rules of not being able to charge a surcharge. The RBA outlawed this practise sighting greater transparency, blah blah blah. At the same time interchange fees were reduced.

      So what happened , was the the monopoly players like airlines not only added a surcharge to recover the cost, but added this as a fee. eg buy 4 tickets, get slugged for 4 x $8.50 credit card fees.

      Now the RBA is trying to reform the reform.

      Not going so well - The Age

  • MelbBargainChaser77 on 23/08/2014 - 16:22
    +4

    Ahhhh Crown, like those bastards dont make enough money. I payed $25 for what they touted as melbournes best burger a few weeks ago. NOT WORTH IT. was average at best. $3 surcharge to put 1 egg on the burger, and yes 1.65% fee to pay by Visa. NEVER EVER AGAIN.

    • Baysew on 23/08/2014 - 19:23
      +2

      $25 ! And to think that you are so close to Andrew's Hamburgers in Albert Park.

  • Baghern on 23/08/2014 - 18:32
    +1

    They have to advertise it, if they don't you can report them

  • ilostnemo on 23/08/2014 - 18:34
    +1

    Yes it was at the atrium, the lady refunded my credit card and charged my savings, she wasn't happy took about an extra 5 minutes and 10 swipes of her employee card, I'm awaiting a phone call from them.

    Poorstudent, how did you know it was the Atrium?????

    • PoorStudent on 23/08/2014 - 19:35
      +6

      Haha, it's because I work there.
      I can understand why she didn't look happy if you paid during the turnover period and there was a massive line behind you,
      I'll help raise your concerns to management next time I work there.

      • ilostnemo on 23/08/2014 - 20:52
        +1

        We left at 6.35pm, There was no line.

        I rang today, and was told I'd receive a phonecall, still no call.

    • McFly on 25/08/2014 - 23:29
      +1

      She wasn't happy?!
      Obviously not $4 worth of unhappiness or she just could have grabbed you $4 out of the til taking only seconds…

      • RockyRaccoon on 26/08/2014 - 01:56
        +2

        Now get real, its a casino, and she just gives someone $4. At end of day she has to justify this $4 loss.

        And IF her boss was understanding that would still take as much time as the refund took, if not she might be out of pocket the $4 or out of a job.

        This is not the corner takeaway where the cashier is probably the bosses, wife or the boss themselves.

        • McFly on 26/08/2014 - 10:54
          +2

          Well then if she's not happy after stuffing the customer around by her own fault maybe she should be thinking about a job in a different area…

  • WT on 24/08/2014 - 09:23
    +2

    I would have asked to speak to a manager

    Some POS systems might not be set up for it or the employee hasn't been trained in that particular instance on how to over ride it.

    Or its a scam

  • Roney on 24/08/2014 - 13:26
    +1

    I paid 4 x $75 pp at Atrium Buffet at Crown Perth and was slugged with ~$5 credit card surcharge. I was only aware of it at the cashier and how was I supposed to know to carry wads of dollar bills for the dinner? Seems a monetary greed that is prevailing now on top of US style tipping that is being talked about. Is Australia the only place with the C/C surcharge?

    • whooah1979 on 24/08/2014 - 13:32

      "**Please note that credit card payments incur a service fee of 1.65%."
      http://www.crownperth.com.au/restaurants/premium/atrium-buff…

      are you sure it wasn't stated on the menu?

      • ilostnemo on 24/08/2014 - 13:53
        +3

        Yes, it does say that, but if they are going to go down that path, the service is the same as for an eftpos payment, ie swipe the card. Actually since I used paypass, I should charge them the service fee.

        Anyone seeing that would expect the fee to apply to the credit card payment amount not the whole amount.

        The biggest evidence to it being a scam/fraud/theft is PoorStudent knowing it was the exact place I was talking about.

        

        PoorStudent 18 hours 14 min ago

        Haha, it's because I work there.
        I can understand why she didn't look happy if you paid during the turnover period and there was a massive line behind you,
        I'll help raise your concerns to management next time I work there.

      • mmd on 24/08/2014 - 13:54

        Its a buffet, there's no menu.

  • windale on 24/08/2014 - 19:49
    +5

    check your credit cards, I can choose "Cheque" on mine and it goes through as a debit card purchase and no fees. Worth a try.

  • hj0809 on 24/08/2014 - 20:01
    +2

    Report them to amex.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2014 - 20:10
    +6

    Contact bikies

    • nickster9999 on 25/08/2014 - 20:58
      +2

      Hells Angels are particularly good to call in when there's a moral panic.

    • JayM on 26/08/2014 - 14:18

      That's who the casino call if you win too much.

  • nikey2k27 on 25/08/2014 - 08:07

    This is one pet hates.

    • ilostnemo on 25/08/2014 - 11:45
      +3

      windale, there is no relevance to any or your points. If I have to pay a surcharge on my credit card, I wear that, however if I pay part cash and part credit card, how are they entitled to the surcharge on the cash. There is no YING or YANG, the gift voucher was paid for by cash, the business gets the business by advertising in the entertainment book.

      For your curiosity, No I didn't disclose my payment terms, nor did she ask, can't see any relevance in that as well.

      Also with your point before, If I choose cheque, it comes out of my cheque account.

      Commonsense would also stop a business refusing payments.

        • ilostnemo on 25/08/2014 - 16:37
          +7

          No relevance again, If there was a table of 30 and everyone paid cash, it would be a lot quicker to do eftpos than to count all the cash. If they don't want people to pay by entertainment book vouchers, gift cards, don't issue them. If their system is that slow, maybe they need to fix it. I'm over it, as I said I didn't pay for it in the end, I just believe it's borderline criminal to charge someone a fee that they didn't incur.

          windale, society is pushing us to a cash-less society, no way should we be penalised with made up charges, I'm pretty sure there have been several class actions against the banks for charging jacked up fees, I can't see any difference to this.

          As poorstudent has said, the operator could of done it correctly, her knowledge/slackness stopped it.

        • ilostnemo on 25/08/2014 - 18:09
          +8

          @windale:

          Is this Ozbargain or Ozfullprice? It's not the $3, it's the fact that a business is charging money for a service, that isn't there.

          As others have said, it sounds like a scam, it smells like a scam, lemme guess it is a scam.

      • spiff on 25/08/2014 - 19:56
        +6

        It's "Yin and Yang".

        The amount of saving isn't the point the OP is trying to make. It's the principle of whether the charge is fair, which imo is a valid discussion. This is a forum after all.

    • yaziyo on 26/08/2014 - 02:15
      +7

      $3 is 10 McDonald's cones, son.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2014 - 15:24
    +3

    Well then pay by cash and claim a cash holdings charge of 1.8%.

    I don't feel safe holding a couple of hundred in my wallet these days.

  • kyle on 25/08/2014 - 20:38
    +1

    Crown Melbourne had the same problem. I noticed it on the tax invoice after they first introduced the surcharge last year. I complained and had them refund the extra surcharge on the non-credit card portion. The issue with raised with management and I believe the issue has now been sorted with their US POS supplier. I was ready to go to consumer affairs as it happened to me a few times, but they came good in the end.

  • nickster9999 on 25/08/2014 - 21:03
    +3

    Basically living in Australia means you can be subjected, at anytime whatsoever, to exorbitant prices and surcharges at restaurants. This may include, but is not limited to, credit card surcharges, high prices to make a small variation to the meal (eg $2 for a slice of cheese) or expensive soft drink prices (for example $5 for a regular size glass of Coke at Pino's in Crows Nest, Sydney). And God forbid should you ask, at the end of the meal, to split the bill. Oh no…. that is akin to murdering all the waitstaff, the Maitre'D and the restaurant manager. Should you ask the split the bill you have the right to remain silent but anything you say thereafter may be used against you in court when you are charged with breaching section 10 of Uptight Arrogant Operations of Restaurants Act.

    meanwhile in the USA and the UK……. "Sure Sir, you can split the bill, just tell us how you'd like to do it"….. "Sure Sir, you can pay for that $2 coffee on your card"…. "Glass of Coke? $2.50 Sir!".

    • MelbBargainChaser77 on 25/08/2014 - 23:26
      +2

      And every place I went to in America recently does free refills on your coke. and because they are working for a tip the service is genuinely superior. On my $20 food and drink bill at Dennys, I happily tipped my waitress $10. I did get 3 coke refills and superb service from my waitress.

      • RockyRaccoon on 26/08/2014 - 02:02
        +6

        Denny's - $10 tip !!!! on a $20 Tab !!!

        Since when are the waitresses at Denny's topless… LOL

        • edgar28 on 27/08/2014 - 17:33

          they make him topless, sell the clothes to pay tips

  • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2014 - 22:42
    +3

    That's sounds very dodgy - they're passing on a cost they didn't incur. Can you get something in writing from the restaurant this is their policy? A couple of restaurants were fined 13.2k each by the ACCC for something IMO less dodgy - disclosing a "public holiday / Sunday surcharge" as a percentage that would be added to the bill, rather than providing a menu on those days with the higher prices.

    http://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/restaurant-menus-misled…

    I hear what people are saying about tipping but it's a separate issue to being unfairly stuck with a fee.

    • noyesmaybeok on 26/08/2014 - 03:38
      +1

      Wow, I don't think I've ever seen separate menus, it's always 10% surcharge or similar and you figure it out yourself (which isn't that hard, really).

  • mousie on 26/08/2014 - 10:33

    Principals aside, looks like you were clever to catch it, the waitress was caught out and then refunded the amount to your cc, and you've paid via your savings account. The CC surcharge fees need to be regulated - that's the bigger problem in my view because of the large variance!

  • jace88 on 26/08/2014 - 13:35

    Wait a sec, noone asked what type of gift card it was. If it was a prepaid visa card type of arrangement, then it still costs the merchant the same. If it was an in-house gift card then yes, I'd call it out.

  • ilostnemo on 26/08/2014 - 14:00

    It was a crown gift card.

    I just had the assistant manager call me, she said they will implement the change. I call Bulls hit, apparently there has now been an memo issued from Head Office, I call Bulls hit again.

    She asked me if she could have my credit card number and she will refund the $3, I told her the account
    has been fixed and it wasn't about the $3.

    The funny thing is I just checked my credit card statement and there is a $55 debit then a $55 credit, then
    a $51 debit, the lady refunded it, and then put it back on my credit card.

    What a joke?

    • dmz on 26/08/2014 - 15:31

      The ironic thing is that they're charing a credit card surcharge (à la carte fee) at a buffet (everyone pays the same).

      • Baysew on 26/08/2014 - 17:35
        +5

        The ironic thing is that they're charing a credit card surcharge

        No they weren't charring the OP, they were burning him.

    • rompastompa on 26/08/2014 - 17:21

      I believe the new gift cards that most companies are using are set amount pre-paid debit cards which use the credit lines (% charged per purchase), as opposed to savings/cheque accounts that have a set $0.25c purchase. I haven't seen anyone actually charge the bank fees on gift cards, but can understand why.

      I think in this case, it was the ignorance of the employee not knowing how to separate the amounts correctly. If you paid $51 in cash, would you pay the extra fees? No. They should send you a BOGOF or some token that you probably won't use because of the service you've received.

  • Hikey on 26/08/2014 - 14:14
    +6

    Off topic, but this always comes to mind when talking about surcharges: The 10% CC surcharge on taxis is the most ridiculous thing.

    • jason101 on 26/08/2014 - 20:51

      Even worse it is 10% PLUS GST (something I didn't think was allowed either, the separation of GST as an add on for typical consumers) so taxi surcharge is REALLY 11% inc GST

    • timmypete on 27/08/2014 - 11:03
      +1

      10% is a crock, but you can probably defend it as implausible but still slightly possible.

      Airlines charge $8.50 per seat. Do you really think that the CC processors charge such high-value customers those fees or wouldn't be willing to undercut to poach competitor business? Or that they pay transaction fees on a per item basis?

      As dodgy as the taxi fee is, I feel its a lot more honest than trying to insinuate that the cost of accepting credit card payment of two $50 'specials' is twice as much as the cost of accepting one $100 ticket.

  • GregOwen4 on 26/08/2014 - 18:25
    -3

    OP, Name and Shame the Restaurant - Ridiculous to be charged a surcharge on the entire bill!

    • umoddbro on 26/08/2014 - 18:33
      +3

      If you've bothered to read the whole post you would know that the restaurant is Atrium at Crown Perth.

  • derpdeder on 26/08/2014 - 20:23
    +1

    I don't think you are systematically being ripped off my them. I had this problem at a previous place I worked at who used Micros POS which I think they use at Atrium.

    Basically, it matters the order you ring the check up in. The food, then surcharge, then discount yielded a different result to food, then discount, then surcharge. All the waiter needed to was change the order of what she rang up.

  • AMLagonda on 27/08/2014 - 12:04

    As a small business I wish I could surcharge credit cards lol funny thing was I was using a st george bank eftpos machine and the fees were higher for debit cards! We were getting bills of nearly $300 a month in fees, we have now changed to NAB merchant eftpos and now our fees are under $100 thank goodness.

  • Charity on 27/08/2014 - 14:21

    Do not use your credit card when there is no advantage - and especially not if you are getting penalized for it!!!

    Better yet, do not support business's that use these deceptive and shady practices. There is too many other ethical business's that don't charge this BS.

    • Charity on 27/08/2014 - 14:42

      one more thing… the day Burswood got bought out by Crown was the day that place turned to scumsville. The financially-stupid FIFO workers accelerated the destruction of that great place also. I'm just old enough to remember what a special place that was to go to on a Friday night. Dressing up, etc. Actually, seeing how much Burswood had changed partially is what made me leave Perth after 20+ years there. You know, I didn't know about the CC surcharge, but it certainly doesn't surprise me.

      • gimme on 27/08/2014 - 17:22

        Burswood has been full of 'scum' well before Crown took over. That's pretty much the nature of casinos all over the world (certainly vegas). Lower the standards and focus on turnover. That's their business model and it is what it is. Perth unfortunately seems to have a disproportionately higher yob population which can be more visible than some other major cities. Anyway I digress… OP got ripped off!

        • Charity on 29/08/2014 - 14:12

          I've actually spent quite a bit of time in Vegas - and the service level is not even comparable. Galaxies apart.

          Play in Vegas = FREE drinks.

          Play in Perth = treated like a child + pay twice the going rate for a drink.

          Play a lot in Vegas = Free food, comp'ed room + harem of 20 virgins! (if that's what u want).

          Play a lot in Perth = "responsible service" dictates no more drinks, thrown out, maybe even police getting involved.

        • McFly on 29/08/2014 - 14:31

          @Son ofa Zombie: If there's one thing the US does well it's sevice (oh that, and guns for every man, woman, and child!)

  • ilostnemo on 27/08/2014 - 18:35

    OP didn't get ripped off, the amount was refunded, then the OP paid via savings.

    Yes, I agree Burswood has gone backwards, they just employ Bigger security guards to cater for the Boofheads.
    I too remember, having to put on the old sports coat and wear some quality pants, (denim meant no entrance) now you can get in wearing your gardening clothes.

    The meridian part looks great.

    There are only types of people who go to the casino, losers and employees.

    • McFly on 28/08/2014 - 11:31

      OP didn't get ripped off, the amount was refunded

      So you'll be fine with me stabbing you as long as I sew it back up?

      losers and employees

      And loser employees?

  • MementoMori on 27/08/2014 - 22:38
    +1

    You were ripped off and you should make a complaint.

    This to me simply seems like a bug in the POS software - it is incorrectly calculating the surcharge.

  • cuteseal on 28/08/2014 - 16:30

    Doesn't sound like a big difference but just leave less of a tip to make up the difference.

    • Kenb0 on 29/08/2014 - 12:42

      as if leave a tip in the first place, where are we, in the US?? They already get paid a reasonable wage here, its not like in the US where they get paid a pittance, and rely on tips to get by. Next I hear, the guy at Bunnings or JBHifi who serves me will want a tip….

    • bargaino on 29/08/2014 - 20:27

      Yeah, the casino staff only expect tips from dumb tourists.

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