UPDATED: Australia's tightest family

Llaura85 on 02/08/2014 - 09:54
Last edited 08/08/2014 - 20:19 by 1 other user

Did anyone else see this on A Current Affair? It's a bit old now, but the family will be making another appearance and taking their money tips 'on the road' this week. What do you think of their money saving ideas?
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/8864036/australias-tighest…

UPDATE: View the second ACA story on Wendy and her money saving tips which was aired tonight (4/8/14).
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/8885804/wendys-super-savin…

[Power User]: Just a friendly reminder to keep comments civil as per the commenting guidelines

General Discussion

Comments

    • kobrien456 on 03/08/2014 - 11:31

      Has any one ever done the exercise with say Aldi double TP vs Aldi confidence tissues? I seem to fly through the TP with my allergies. Makes me wonder if it's really cheaper.

    • electric drifter on 06/08/2014 - 10:53

      How do you know when the story was filmed? A lot of the deals you just posted may not have been available then.

  • infinite on 02/08/2014 - 18:10

    These slobs don't even manage their money as well as the average family household.

  • laura85 on 02/08/2014 - 18:29
    +13

    Anyone else feel sorry the kids?

  • gevidian on 02/08/2014 - 18:35
    +23

    Combined income of 40K with the husband working one day a week and the wife two days a week. What they fail to mention in that they receive probably over $20K of welfare payments without paying any income tax. Might not be the tightest family but probably extremely good at milking the system.

    • donga100 on 02/08/2014 - 18:43
      +1

      They actually do mention at the end of the story that they don't receive any welfare except for claiming family tax benefit.

      • gevidian on 02/08/2014 - 20:08

        FTB A and B make up the bulk on the "welfare" I stated.

        • chloden on 02/08/2014 - 20:11
          +9

          And the irony in this is that every second night ACA are critising "welfare bludgers" yet that are promoting this family.

        • mskeggs on 02/08/2014 - 21:41
          +9

          FTB A tops out at $8k for two teens, assuming they get full rate and bonus. They likely don't qualify for Part B, as the income threshold is only $5k. I f they did, that would me one of them earns at least $35k, so would be paying tax, around $2.5k.
          So best case would be 1 income of $35k, 1 of $5k, and full FTB A & B, total after tax and welfare of $52k.
          The max they could get is about $15k, and that implies they are likely paying a little tax too.
          I don't think these people are welfare bludgers in any case. I'd rather they get welfare and be reasonably careful about their spending than the many who get it and spend it on junk.

        • Davo1111 on 03/08/2014 - 04:15

          @mskeggs:

          You're also assuming her working 2 days a week is not cash in hand. I'm sure they don't pay tax on their egg income ;)

          Do we know if their combined income of 40k includes the welfare payments? That would change everything significantly.

          reasonably careful about their spending than the many who get it and spend it on junk.

          That's pretty much the only thing you can take from this story

          • live with in your means
          • Don't waste money on junk.
    • sparkles on 02/08/2014 - 21:20
      +3

      Think of what they could achieve if they both actually worked full weeks and stayed this tight! But then all the freebies like Health Care Card all go away. They're definitely working the system but no mention of that. Honestly, this is not something that people should be trying to emulate. There are some OK ideas though mostly logical which most people already action (like pay half price instead of full price when you can), but really overall it's just an acceptance of averageness, average lifestyle, average expectations, and average ambition.

      • mskeggs on 02/08/2014 - 21:43
        +5

        They have well above average leisure time. I think they are high achievers to be able to have a lifestyle they seem happy with that avoids them working two 40hr a week jobs.
        I earn money to enable the enjoyment in my life, the cash itself is not pleasing.

      • sjobeck on 03/08/2014 - 19:07
        -2

        +1 on this, 2 adults working a combined 24 hours per week. Hell I work 50-70 hours on an average week. I would feel like a bludger if I was only working 1-2 days. Pull your finger out people and become productive for the greater good of society

        • itajac on 11/08/2014 - 19:19

          Where as I'd like to view life a different way, "I work to live, not live to work", not to say your view is wrong but " being productive for the greater good of society" is being a wholesome person and giving the best of you to all aspects of life. Live and enjoy life to the fullest ,whatever that may mean to you personally. Be happy and don't worry too much about what others think of you or your lifestyle.

      • Abaddon on 04/08/2014 - 10:08

        Except now everyone will be Brodening the shelves

      • ThadtheChad on 04/08/2014 - 21:09
        +3

        really overall it's just an acceptance of averageness, average lifestyle, average expectations, and average ambition.

        I'd say it's sub-average on all those counts. :) While saving money is a laudable achievement, this goes beyond and appears to be an obsession with frugality. They could work normal hours and teach their progeny how to handle responsibility and how to actually "LIVE" without being a penny pinching tightwad. :)

    • MrLeE on 06/08/2014 - 11:14
      +4

      She spends so much time with all these money savings tasks, but when she could be working.

      Time is still money.

      Combined income of 40k is low. Why doesn't she try and go for a higher paying job? Combined with these money saving techniques as well.

      • frysie on 06/08/2014 - 11:18

        because the government gives you incentives to be a low income earner. back to front nation

  • dlakers3peat on 02/08/2014 - 20:50
    +11

    Why do people like to make their short life on earth as painful as possible. You can't take all the money saved with you when you die.

    • mskeggs on 02/08/2014 - 21:45
      +4

      I didn't see them doing anything painful. Having to pack your own bags at ALDI isn't that draining ;-)
      They each get 3 or 4 days a week when I am at work to do what they want. I would find that pretty appealing.

      • donga100 on 02/08/2014 - 21:58
        +4

        Shopping for new clothes, shoes and bags once a year at the Op Shop with $150 budget seems a little painful.

        • mskeggs on 02/08/2014 - 22:08
          +8

          Would you do it for an extra 30 weeks of annual leave? That is the difference between working 5 days a week and 2 days.

        • jellykingdom on 04/08/2014 - 20:29

          Especially nowadays. All the good stuff goes on ebay, not to the opshops

        • ThadtheChad on 04/08/2014 - 21:15
          +3

          @mskeggs:

          Not really. I remember having long vacations back in the day when I was a uni student and that bored me witless.

          I have a job that I enjoy which pays me well enough to be able to support my hobbies, save a fair bit and never have to worry about cash-flow. :)

    • Davo1111 on 03/08/2014 - 04:01
      +3

      You can't take all the money saved with you when you die.

      tutankhamun would disagree

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 03/08/2014 - 18:18

        "tutankhamun would disagree"

        Not now he wouldn't… didn't everything in his tomb get nicked yonks ago? He might have tried to "take it with him" but the living, somewhat rudely I thought, erm, "took it back".

  • Davo1111 on 03/08/2014 - 03:54
    +3

    yeah she got heckled in our house too, amateur.

  • MelbBargainChaser77 on 03/08/2014 - 04:53
    +19

    Is this woman for real? She using dirty water to wash clothes? By the looks of her yellow teeth, toothpaste is a non essential luxury item in her house. And herself and her 2 teenage daughters have a YEARLY budget of $150 for clothes from an op shop? These people arent frugal, they are MISERABLE.

    • Freighter on 03/08/2014 - 05:13
      +1

      My budget would be about $150 tops for clothes for a year. Just shopping at opshops and not buying every visit but if/when I actually want something works good. I don't wear old "grandpa" clothes either, some seem trendy enough or I just like them. That's from a male in their 20s anyway

    • Davo1111 on 03/08/2014 - 20:07
      +1

      She using dirty water to wash clothes?

      Fairly sure our washing machine fills 3 times. Soak, wash, then rinse.

      A rinse is basically just removing extra suds before the spin, so it's not exactly dirty water. I'm not sure what shes doing is worth it. 20 Litres is less than 1 cent.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 04/08/2014 - 00:12

        Davoo1111, re:

        "20 Litres is less than 1 cent."

        I'm calling shenanigans on that spurious claim… revisit the calculator amigo, and let me know how you get on … ;P

        • mskeggs on 04/08/2014 - 09:39

          My last Sydney water bill is here, they charge $2.168 per 1000L, so 20L is a bit over 4c.

        • cwongtech on 04/08/2014 - 10:17
          +1

          @mskeggs:
          Wow, last time I checked a bill, it was $1 per megalitre.
          Prices have increased hey D:

        • xsacha on 04/08/2014 - 12:22
          +1

          @mskeggs: Remember to add the bulk water price.

    • Randxyz123 on 04/08/2014 - 00:10
      +6

      Have to agree here. Teenage girls need a social life and these girls clearly don't have one. To me they don't seem happy, sure they put on a smiling face for the camera with their mum standing around but what would they change if they could… I find it difficult to believe that the father REALLY wants to be a pastor and barley get paid enough to get by, let alone be able to help pay for their daughters' school formals, their University education (yes I know about HECS but it is still expensive and many parents help out), eventually their weddings(again many parents help) even putting down the payment on their first house. While I am all for saving money there is being thrifty (buying specials, recycling water) and then taking things just way too far…

      I just feel even if they have savings shit will hit the fan in a few years and it'd be better if the lady got a full time job… Even talking about money saving tips and uploading the video to YouTube. In fact she seems to be very prominent on http://www.cheapskates.com.au/.

      I don't mind about the OP shop that is alright and you can actually find nice things but $150 a year?

      • nikey2k27 on 04/08/2014 - 20:24
        +1

        I personal think there kids would be happy if your part of church some people that works. Been pastor in new age church is not a bad job. youth group and sing along and bands and have do have a lots of fun. i know girl she happy she been sent she found a new age church. I grown up in house of not much and then i move in rich nan and pop. i take simple life. you can have a good life on $40,000 if your smart and save and spend right. i think might eat out few time a month or enjoy few good meals.

  • Euphemistic on 03/08/2014 - 08:55

    Haven't watched it, but if its anything like any of the other ACA stories it is a few seconds of fluff and 'check our website for more' (of the same) all aimed at people who are to stupid to realise they just recycle the same old stories regularly. BUT they should start you thinking, which a number of posts above have noted. while further savings can be made there are plenty of people out there aren't doing a proper job of not WASTING money buying at full price etc.

    Things like shopping at aldi, then getting to woolies for the stuff aldi doesn't have and ensuring that you spend just over $30 by throwing in a few items on special to get your fuel discount. Not buying a new car is an easy one, why would you buy new with your own cash? There are so many more.

    • abc on 03/08/2014 - 15:16
      -1

      New car at low interest rate car dealers now offer makes sense if you have the money there. Take out the loan at 1-3% while earning 4% while on your lump sum.

      • Abaddon on 04/08/2014 - 10:15
        +1

        And being a pastor probably means tax exemptions as well. At least it used to. FBT free etc

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 09/08/2014 - 04:41

          Pasta is a tax deduction now? Since when? Is that all shapes, or just the more 'pedestrian' ones?

      • PVA on 04/08/2014 - 12:40

        I thought the 1% loans were also at full RRP price of the car, so no bargaining for a cheap price first.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 04/08/2014 - 13:23
        +2

        Having a long time to pay the money back doesn't change anything. You still have to pay it all back. Curiously, it also means that a couple of months after getting the car, you will owe more money on it than it's actually worth; it will have lost thousands in value because it's no longer "new", and you will still owe nearly all the purchase-price.

  • johninmelb on 03/08/2014 - 10:15
    +1

    Wendy is connected (a moderator on the forum) with the cheapskates.com.au website dedicated to saving money and living within your means.

    Surprised that she buys washing powder when the cheapskates site advocates making your own for a fraction of the cost. I haven't done that yet, but going to try it. Recipe is very simple.

    • donga100 on 03/08/2014 - 10:42
      +1

      In the video she does make the washing powder herself. However, she buys dishwashing liquid, shower gel (for hand soap), shampoo and conditioner.

      • johninmelb on 03/08/2014 - 11:40
        +1

        My mistake re washing powder, some time since I watched the video, so forgot some of the details.

    • RockyRaccoon on 05/08/2014 - 07:36
      +5

      @Johninmelb

      That explains it all. That website charges for membership.

      ACA has been known to run stories that pay for the promotion.

      END OF STORY! LOL

  • ozb-442 on 03/08/2014 - 12:15
    +2

    what a casual

  • cyrax83 on 03/08/2014 - 17:09
    +17

    I'd die if I was born into this family. God, you only live once. Diluting shampoo and shopping at the op shop? rofl. I feel sorry for the teenagers. $150 budget a year on clothes? Oh god….

    Also a 100k mortgage is nothing. In Sydney, you are looking at 600k+

    • johninmelb on 04/08/2014 - 09:47
      +12

      Yes, you do only live once, but sometimes you need to save some money. I am unemployed, so I have to watch the budget. However, I do not go to extremes.

      I've been diluting the shampoo and conditioner for years, even when I had a job. I buy 3 or 4 bottles of my particular brand when it is half price or better. Then I dilute the 375ml bottle with the same of water, rinsing out the shampoo or conditioner bottle, and put it into a 750ml pump bottle.

      No problems at all with it. We all use way to much of this stuff anyway. I used to have a friend who got thru a bottle of each in a couple of weeks. Cost a small fortune.

      In the scheme of things, it doesn't save a lot of money, but all the little things I do have reduced my monthly total spend and I can manage ok without living a miserable life.

      AND MOST IMPORTANT - I get to buy the odd OzBargain bargain now and again - but not Eneloops, don't need them!

      • Abaddon on 04/08/2014 - 10:18
        +2

        A mate of mine has given them up completely and only washes with water now, supposedly the oils in your hair reach an equilibrium. Doesn't look dirty or smell. Haven't been game to test the theory yet though.

        • asa79 on 04/08/2014 - 20:05
          +5

          Shave your head its cheaper :)

      • nikey2k27 on 04/08/2014 - 20:28

        it about a mix what work and dose not work for you. i personal would never shop at OP i cannot stand the place. i shop at kmart before the OP

        • red-hot on 04/08/2014 - 22:52

          Op shop clothes are WAY better clothes than Kmart clothes. Better brands, better quality.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2014 - 22:58
          +1

          Do you also live in Brunswick? :P

        • nubzy on 04/08/2014 - 23:04
          +4

          Have you seen the OP shops in Sydney lately, especially Red Cross are becoming very greedy and as soon as they spot a brand e.g. Polo (despite the fact it is likely fake) they mark the price up to something ridiculous. I am all for charity, but come on who is going to pay stupid prices for second hand clothes.
          And it is very rare to find decent clothes in the op shops in your size, especially for men. They are all filled with junk these days.

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 09/08/2014 - 04:44

          @nubzy: WORD, bro

      • oringal on 05/08/2014 - 00:29
        +1

        Shampoo is just a mixture of chemicals designed to remove dirt and stuff from your hair, you dont have to worry about diluting it cause you just need the chemicals to do their thing. Conditioner puts back oils into the hair that protect it. The checkout has a pretty funny explanation of it :P

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 09/08/2014 - 04:47

          Yeah I'm perplexed by this concept too… rather than diluting it prior to application, has it occurred to peeps to simply use less when actually applying it? I'd really love a meaningful response to this question…

        • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2014 - 05:16

          @GnarlyKnuckles: I think I can shamefully help explain the reasoning behind why diluting something has better results than simply trying to use less… because I'm rather guilty of being a heavy handed kinda person when it comes to cleaning products and stuff like soap, shampoo, shower gel, dishwashing liquid etc.

          I tend to daydream when doing tasks and like to be obsessively clean, so I guess my brain just goes into auto pilot and I end up squeezing way more out of a bottle than I need to each time (seeing loads of suds comforts me into believing that things are definitely ultra clean, rather than seeing few suds which in my small brain must mean things aren't going to be as clean - even though I'm fully aware that soaps don't even NEED to have suds AT ALL and that effect is added completely for that psychological effect on consumers - I am a sucker). Dunno why I don't learn from it. Really annoy myself when I've inadvertently done it with dishwashing liquid, when I've bought a more concentrated type than usual because it was on special or something. I'm an idiot and squeeze out the same amount as I would the less concentrated one… so it's a complete waste.

          So… if there are other people as thick as a brick as I am… I can see why diluting it to begin with would end up being more cost savvy than aiming to use less to begin with lol.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/08/2014 - 05:21

          @waterlogged turnip: ugh that was such a clumsy reply from me. Thank you, insomnia.

  • Ughhh on 03/08/2014 - 19:18
    +26

    lol why not dilute everything to save more money. 1 part coke/juice to 10 part water, dilute your makeup (or use dirt as eyeshadow etc), dilute all the can soup to 10 part water. Why are they punishing themselves. Some things had be bought for around the same price at non-op shops, but you get warranty and the peace of mind that no one has pissed on it.

    • airzone on 03/08/2014 - 20:37
      +19

      Diluting it makes it more potent… According to the real science of homeopathy.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 04/08/2014 - 01:17

        Toooo funny A-zed! That's one huge "skeptical" poz' from me!!!

    • sparkles on 03/08/2014 - 21:19
      +12

      I've got some beautiful mud in my garden at the moment. Perfect for a face mask! The frogs have moved in too. Gonna try to catch some for dinner.

    • MelbBargainChaser77 on 04/08/2014 - 06:02
      +2

      Omg you've made my day!!! So funny dirt as eyeshadow !!!

    • neil aus on 04/08/2014 - 22:01

      JLove, you had me in tears reading your comment here at home, legend!

    • ThadtheChad on 05/08/2014 - 10:49
      +1

      ..and why stop at fluids. Lets dilute everything. Buy three-ply TP and "separate" the layers. Voila! Lasts 3 times as long (with a very questionable effectiveness). Although ultra-soiled underwear + diluted washing detergent… may cause some issues.

  • nikey2k27 on 03/08/2014 - 20:44
    +1

    i am not that cheep i have good life.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 04/08/2014 - 13:26
      +2

      That's a chirpy little story nikes.

  • sparkles on 03/08/2014 - 21:17
    +23

    They are featuring this chick again next week, saw the ad earlier. Apparently she's going to educate other struggling families on how to be miserable.

    • mafmouf on 03/08/2014 - 22:31
      +3

      Maybe they should focus on the OzB team to do some real education.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2014 - 00:50
        +19

        I think OzBargain is much more about impulse buys than it is about saving money.

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 04/08/2014 - 01:29
          +2

          That's a clever point to make la, and bravely stated so boldly and succinctly, at that… I'm pozzing it 100%. Let's see how it fares in the long run.

        • cwongtech on 04/08/2014 - 02:38

          Not really, that's just a side-effect of a good deal and a LOT of OzBargain member's hype.
          OzBargain is about making the market more efficient, rather than comparing deals to artificially inflated RRPs, we're all about making sure a "deal" is when it is cheaper than the current market leader/normal price for a quality product at a low price.

          Example: Eneloops. Yes sure, having them around and a charger surely is beneficial, but holy cow, do you guys really need to buy so many? The only electrical items that don't come with Li-Ion rechargeable batteries these days are.. cheap electronics parts, mostly remotes and radios. What other devices do you use your 100 eneloops to power up?
          P.s. There's similar (in performance) eneloops @hobbyking, turnigy LSD batteries that are available everyday at slightly cheaper per-unit prices even after postage.

        • sparkles on 04/08/2014 - 12:55
          +6

          95% impulse buys 5% grocery shopping savings

  • [Deactivated] on 03/08/2014 - 22:33

    I'll make my own assessment of the tightness thank you very much ;)

  • Cluster on 04/08/2014 - 02:26
    +8

    There's being tight and living well, and being tight and living miserably.

    Far too many people seem to have too much money these days, even if they'll complain about not getting paid enough. My local cinema offers a 'value pack' of 2 Cokes (tap water mix) and two small pocorns for $20. $20! It's self serve too, but the punters are lining up. After going to see a movie a month ago and seeing that a single ticket cost $22 I'm not going to bother with the whole cinema experience too. Wait 3 to 4 months and have the movie on DVD for the same price and share it around.

    • PVA on 04/08/2014 - 14:40
      +1

      $22 for a single ticket!!! It is under $10 where we go.

    • LincolnLenny on 04/08/2014 - 15:25

      a single ticket cost $22

      Thats's nuts!!!

      I take a little drive down to the Redbank Plains cinemas and get in for $8.50

    • nubzy on 04/08/2014 - 23:06
      +1

      come on man, we are ozbargainers we never pay more than $11 for movie tickets. Even better we get them from coke rewards using scavenged tokens.

  • NetworkNerd on 04/08/2014 - 05:51

    Just go to the movies with tickets obtained via Coke Rewards. Bring a $2 pack of lollies or go to Sugar Station which is usually near the cinema. They have a jumbo popcorn, 600ml coke and lollypop for 8.50

  • aussieaubs on 04/08/2014 - 09:22
    +11

    sometimes its easier for me to spend $1.50 than to do some activity for 20 hours to get the same result…

    its called opportunity cost and I'm sure most of us here - have some threshold where our opportunity cost is beyond cost benefits…

    • lycheetea on 08/08/2014 - 17:11

      For a couple who work 3 days a week combined… I can see how that opportunity cost is drastically reduced when it comes to spending their 11 days of combined leisure time to save a few cents.

  • BH1 on 04/08/2014 - 10:08
    +6

    After looking at the the comments on this video I can honestly say this family "ain't got shit" on Ozbargainers. =)

    I'm surprised I didn't see mice running in a mill to generate electricity for the house.

    • cwongtech on 04/08/2014 - 10:18
      +3

      I'm surprised I didn't see mice running in a mill to generate electricity for the house.

      They had lazy chickens! Why not use those!?

  • Abaddon on 04/08/2014 - 10:23
    +4

    It's probably screwing the kids financial futures too. I speak from experience, having grown up poor like this. Once you hit the real world and start hanging out with/living with normally spending people you have an increased tendency to go a bit out of control with your spending…

    Especially re Eneloops and torches

    Better hope those girls never get on OzB

    • [Deactivated] on 04/08/2014 - 12:03

      I'm sure the daughters could pull their weight once they hit adulthood. Earn some cash in hand income by coming in and penetrating the local market. Make sure it's doesn't affect the precious centrelink benefits.

  • scotty on 04/08/2014 - 17:02
    +18

    I have just watched it. Despite all the negativity here, I have to applaud their effort of making ends meet, raising a family with $40k+ annual income, forsaking many "luxury" to stay cashflow positive, etc. I'll imagine many front-page listed deals here are actually luxury to them and many strugglers. Well, you can certainly be tighter, save more on some items, etc. However I rather be inclusive, calling it "good effort" than "not good enough".

    • singhbo on 04/08/2014 - 17:44
      +5

      Agreed, whilst I agree with some comments on here; I think it sends a good message to the average Australian not to waste money.

    • donga100 on 04/08/2014 - 18:33
      +2

      Absolutely. I applaud them for trying.

  • TRENT86 on 04/08/2014 - 19:16
    +1

    If they were tight they would have mentioned this site!!

  • Connections on 04/08/2014 - 19:25
    +10

    Why don't they just get some more work, the husband works 1 day a week and she works 2 days a week, I get bored if I am not working at least 5 days a week. Some of her tactics are not bad but they are not rocket science, like buying in bulk. Her water saving tactics and her cutting down products I wouldn't do.

    • nikey2k27 on 04/08/2014 - 20:31
      -8

      i work 2days a week put in 55,000 last year. it a good life. I love free time lunch and lay on my deck. it a good cheep life. better then working 40hours a week or 70 hours a week like i used to.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/08/2014 - 03:45
        +14

        Dear Mr nikey-(hot)-air, given that you're bleating publicly about 'earning' 55K while working only 2 days a week, may I respectfully ask what your line of work is? Others in the OB community who have given-unto-you over the years by way of their selfless contributions to the site would appreciate your wisdom on this. Based on your prior posts, clearly even a basic command of the English language is not required for whatever it is that you get paid to do. There's a couple of professions I can think of that could possibly generate such an income without even basic proficiency in English, but some of your previous posts suggest that probably you are not involved in those… for example:

        "I need office chair that going to last? i am big guy to want some that will take 200kg"

        So do tell, for the good of us all!

        Alternatively, can I have the recipe for your porky-pies? ;P

        • ChickenTalon on 05/08/2014 - 09:24
          +6

          I'm going to safely assume it's chair stress tester. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta sit down and do it.

        • nikey2k27 on 05/08/2014 - 09:35

          i play the stock market and do bit of freelance work. well english my is not best my stock market skill make up for it.

        • abc on 05/08/2014 - 12:05
          +4

          @nikey2k27:

          Freelance work trolling.

        • nikey2k27 on 06/08/2014 - 09:05

          @abc: design mostly.

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