Ozbargain turning into OzSemibargain ?

• 

  WaywardOne on 08/01/2009 - 11:09

  To a certain extent I agree; except the quality of bargains has so much to do with the economy and the exchange rate etc.

  The other problem is that the community is so anti-confrontational that users can't even hint at providing a non-supportive comment. What is the good of a forum where you can only offer praise? Sure; don't scare off first time submitters, but don't encourage mediocraty either.

  • 

    scotty on 08/01/2009 - 11:16

    The other problem is that the community is so anti-confrontational that users can?t even hint at providing a non-supportive comment.

    You get either a warm-fuzzy community that accepts every single crap, or a sharp in-your-face group of judges that filter out only the best. We are trying to keep the balance here, but hey, it's not easy.

    Any good suggestion?

    • 

      HueyData on 08/01/2009 - 21:53

      +1

      […] a sharp in-your-face group of judges that filter out only the best.

      That doesn't sound so bad ;)

      We are trying to keep the balance here, but hey, it’s not easy.

      Agreed. At the end of the day, the community is what/who it is and you can't argue with that, although you can try to guide it a bit differently.

      There does seem to be a bit too much aversion to negative votes - to the extent that people don't even vote against duplicates they've pointed out, which just means the duplicates hang around longer … Others would seem to prefer that there be no negative votes at all, which generally seems to go with a (mis)perception that negative votes are cast against the submitter rather than the deal.

      Ultimately, the community is essentially a democracy (one person, one vote, no sockpuppets thanks), and functional despite its inevitable inconsistencies.

      Any good suggestion?

      Nah, not my style :)

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 09/01/2009 - 03:47

        Just a point that I put in my post below, but its relevant to the comments all above.

        Getting slammed for slamming others, isnt that a little hypocritical.

        To say that making a negative comment that gets a negative comment says hey only I have the intelligence to make a comment. Others cant comment on my comment. Isnt that why we have voting on comments as well.

        And lets not get confused with spammers defending spam by hammering anyone critical of the spam - cant show links as they have been unpublished. Which is a dilemma as here negative votes have been made about a deal and since the deal is now unpublished you never see the deal or the positive effect that a negative vote has had. eg see http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/9348 where negative voting IS being used effectively by our members

        So slam me!!! LOL

• 

  scotty on 08/01/2009 - 11:12

  Maybe the definition of "special" is different to different people. I think you are looking for something that is really really really special — if that's your type of bargain. Can you give us an example? You might find that they don't come by that often.

  I'll call it "slow bargain week", but the show has to go on. Hopefully there will be better bargains for everyone to share next week.

• 

  Mwave on 08/01/2009 - 11:36

  Why don't you add an extra category for Bargain/Special/Deals that are not "really really really special" but it can still be considered a bargain to majority of people…

  but to be honest, whatever bargain people post if you like it… you will + (PLUS / DIGG) it and it will go to the front page. So I guess it is really depend on the community what they want to be displayed at the top or at the bottom…

• 

  jason101 on 08/01/2009 - 11:41

  I guess that as this website is gaining popularity it is also being used by people who are "less savy" to hunting down a bargain or a special.

  All the hard core sea dogs of the internet demand that a "special" or "deal" really is something special - as in has the "wow" factor. Where the average netball mum may be quite content getting 10% off her next widget purchase (no offence to netball mums out there). I can certainly appreciate the difficulties in keeping the site relevant to the "hard core" bargain hunters while maintaining the traffic and "deal" input of the mass market.

  In answer to your questions Scotty, $500 return inc Taxes Sydney to Macau (which gives access to Hong Kong and China) would be my example of a stellar deal I personally enjoyed which was found on this site.

  http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/5070

  Oddly enough it wasn't that popular with users in general……

  I guess the others found out as I did you had to pay $8 for an instant noodles meal on the 9 hour flight ;-)

• 

  chloden on 08/01/2009 - 11:53

  +1

  jason101, I agree somewhat to your comments, I have only posted one deal myself as I thought it was a good bargain and I am surprised by some of the "bargains" that are posted, but why does it really matter? If it appeals to you then great, if it appeals to others great. Who are you to say what others should consider a bargain? I kind of had the impression this website was intended to help others, not to judge or criticize.

• 

  neil on 08/01/2009 - 11:56

  +1

  “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

  While a majority of users are happy, the minorities or the groups that have different interests are not. Liberals are happy with government, but the Greens, Nationals, Whatever Party are only finding some/none of policies useful for them. Power of the vote.

  McDonalds Free Wifi is probably voted up because:
  it's unique, no one else has offered free nationwide internet
  it's accessible to everyone, not just Melburnians or WA people
  it's applicable to people of all ages

  If you look at all of deals submitted, there is a majority of so-so, but thats why the votes are there to distinguish the good from the bad.

  Perhaps we can list some positive/negative things here which we can indoctrinate into the rules.
  One thing is the positive/negative voting system and what denotes getting a negative. Maybe there can be something done for mediocre posts.

  (Looking forward to your Baked Beans bargain ;) )

• 

  jason101 on 08/01/2009 - 12:20

  Hi Chlo and Neil, I very much agree with your points, and perhaps it really is in the interpretation of what qualifies for the website.

  I agree that the McDonalds offer is certainly fanstastic, but is this website here so we can all pat McDonalds on the back or so that we can find unique bargains not offered to the general populous?

  In answer to your point Chlo - I guess it really doesn't matter if the website is filled with "so so" finds, but for me its just becoming a bit like reading the junk mail - interesting a first but then the interest wears off. Perhaps when deals are submitted the poster could self rank the deal in their opinion.

  ie.

  1) SUPER BARGAIN
  2) WORTH A LOOK
  3) NOT A BAD DEAL
  4) SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN RETAIL

  And perhaps mark the deal "Retail Offer" or "Exclusive Offer" etc..

  Then fuss pots like me could just call up the "super bargains" and "exclusive offers" and not worry about reading pages of testimony about 10% off offers advertised during A Current Affair each night ;-)

• 

  mrstoo on 08/01/2009 - 12:42

  +2

  This discussion reminds me of the phrase "one man's trash is another man's pleasure".

  I'm a long time reader, almost first time poster and I too have not always understood some of the posts (for example the free wifi at mcdonalds, free virus scan software, or the promos for chips and the like out of big-store catalogues like coles, kmart, etc) but who am I to argue what one ("the ozbargain community") perceives as value? Isn't that the whole point of the comments and vote up/down?

  Over the past 12 months, I have stood to gain from user contributed posts such as iTunes voucher discounts, free pet food samples, discounts from real high-def LCD TVs (none of the 1024x768 rubbish), wagamama discounts, flight sale announcements, projector screen, computer related gear, and the list goes on. Great stuff, but it's obviously not for everyone.

  The purpose of the website (according to the wiki) is for "deals, promotions and freebies" whilst "members can choose to vote for or against those deals" and the goal is "to create a comprehensive guide for all shoppers in Australia".

  I'd suggest the more contributors, the more the "deals, promotions and freebies" will vary.

  Perhaps what you're really asking is to redefine the purpose of the site? Because remember you'll never please everyone all of the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. :-)

  As for myself, I use an RSS reader through google and only open the deals that interest me from the heading and summary. Takes less than a minute to flick through a day's list. Oh and not all of us collect junk mail in our mailboxes!

  Cheers.

• 

  jashjash on 08/01/2009 - 16:54

  +1

  How is free Wifi not a good deal? How about for people who normally do not go to McDonalds? At least now they know they can get free Wifi and use their iPhones there without incurring data download charges. I wonder how much of a bargain that is?

  But I do agree that you shouldn't need to cop flack for disagreeing with a post, if you express it in a way that's appropriate. I generally like to say when I think a deal is not a deal, and also get negged for it.

  I don't even put a negative vote against the post, because I don't think there's something inherently wrong with the deal. I just don't think it's worth calling it a bargain.

  I think it comes because ozbargain is becoming more popular, and you have randoms coming in.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 09/01/2009 - 03:23

  +2

  Jason - its hard to fully understand what your issue is.
  First voting is an indication of what people here like - Yep as mrstop says one mans trash etc.

  Now if I am aiming to get the weekly prize, and I was posting deals of "value" then i would be peeved if a free bus ticket beats me, but as you said you haven't posted much lately - so that cant be the issue (3 deals since you have been here). Now thats not a criticism of you.

  You can be critical of a deal, but since negative voting has more implications than just expressing an opinion on a deal, then using it because I dont like the shape of a pizza seems a bit extreme. It is there to indicate there is something fundamentally wrong - eg spam, scam or hidden conditions - it flags a warning that you really need to look at the deal before proceeding - ie read the comments.

  So since there are so many deals having to read all the comments to find 3 negatives which are frivolous also is frustrating and a waste of time.

  And deals from catalogs which btw not everyone gets every catalog, help highlight opportunities which maybe missed otherwise. But listing just 3 catalogs while helpful to find the catalog - which wins the weekly prize is not to my mind kosher there is a thread you might want to add comments to here http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/9072

  As the site grows as so do the bargains and spam as more users sign up and they also want to participate.

  And isn't having the votes indicative of the value system you propose. Hey when the poster rates it a 3 when I think it should be a 4, but you missed it because it is a 2 in your eyes. While problem with votes is that by the time it gets enough to get on the top deals the deal may be gone.

  Maybe one issue is the prizes, people posting to get the weekly prize rather than just sharing the bargain.

  Then again maybe its a reflection of the success of the site - frankly I may not interested in another 40% off a LCD monitor (well maybe if its only 20% off) when I have one already courtesy of a great sharing before. And another pen drive deal - I have 3 1gb drives just doing nothing.

  And finally since this is a place of sharing - whack out a "negative' comment and expect others to say - oh its Jason - yep he has all the wisdom and he's the bargain guru - so dont whack him back as he will complain about getting negative comments on a negative comment - shees thats a bit one sided.

  So it reminds me of the saying - fight the battle when its worth fighting - but when you fight expect a few bruises. Man I have been mauled sometimes http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/4337

  AND finally many times you dont see the negative votes that are for spam/scams as when these are made - the deal is unpublished by the moderators, so the Appearance is that negative voting is not being made when it is and its effective as it quickly alerts us moderators to a bad deal.

  And personally I dont disagree with all your bargain definitions. Frankly I have too many credit cards already, cant cope with another Dominos Pizza - is it $4 $5 off some mythical RRP? But as I dont eat at Maccas the wifi deal has helped me - but IMHO not worth voting for and 65 times!!!

  All that said - if you have any suggestions then I am sure Scotty will look into them, (and we can have a hell of a lot of fun making negative comments on them.- LOL)

• 

  jason101 on 09/01/2009 - 20:23

  Hi Ozpete, my issue is this website is becoming overloaded with semi special deals - it's basically become junk mail online. I acknowledge the success of the site has lead to the expansion of the user base which in turn has lead to more and more "ordinary" deals being posted.

  Now as i'm not the owner of the site, obviously my opinion is really just that - but I guess the value of the site to me (and I assume other hard core bargain hunters) has diminished as it has lost the "niche" feeling it once had.

  • 

    pauly on 09/01/2009 - 22:38

    Jason, you seem to compare ozbargain with junk mail. IMHO, they are far from similar.

    Junk mails = 99% of the time, the deals are either scams, hardly deals, and you can find better deals elsewhere. Also most of them seem to be marketing materials.
    OzBargain = 99% (well maybe a little lower) of the time, there is some value to the deals, even if they are able to save certain users a buck or two. If it was scam/marketing/or better deals elsewhere, that's where power of voting kicks in. And like everyone else said, certain things may not be a deal for you but it might be for others.

    For me, I don't see a problem scheming through all the headings of the deals. Unlike junk mails where you have catchy/marketing-type headings and would only waste your time reading the entire material to realize it's really not a deal, the mods and scotty constantly edit posts to represent accurate headings on deals on offer. So what you see is what you get. Combined with general indication of votes, how hard is it to sift through the deals and find what you see a bargain? Junk mails on the other hand, looking for a deal is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

    Personally, I've had the opportunity to look for items with the 'lowest' market price around here, because I know the members around here are savvy enough to compare prices and will inform others if an item can be found cheaper elsewhere. This sort of gives me the assurance that I was not ripped off.

    As with the high number of votes for certain deals that don't appeal to you, again, it could just be that you have different interests than majority of users here. For example, you said the Macau trip was a deal for you, but how many people here are actually into travelling or most importantly, how many can actually afford it? Compare that with the McDonalds Wifi deal that you gave as an example, it's free, everyone is able to use it, and it appeals to computer-literate people (and I'm confident we have a large user base of geeks too :P).

    My 2 cents. :)

• 

  MiCCAS on 12/01/2009 - 13:05

  +1

  Dude, not EVERYONE goes to McDonalds, so how would we have known about the free wifi offer any other way?

  It's the same with a lot of stuff, and just because you think it's not a bargain doesn't mean someone else won't.

• 

  ESEMCE on 12/01/2009 - 14:15

  +2

  I agree to some extent but I think the voting system is the best solution…

  I may have been guilty of diluting Ozbargain myself today..

  Just posted today's COTD thinking it was a pretty good price, but it's matched by a catalogue price at a retailer. (seems to be an OK price compared to previous Ozbargains for similar items)
  Negative votes will take care of it either way.
  Have to say that negative votes for reasons apart from the deal (ie "I had a bad experience with the vendor", eg Dell) are annoying though.
  Even more annoying are people who vote negative because it's not a deal to them..
  Negative votes are powerful things here, they need to be used properly..

  • 

    jashjash on 13/01/2009 - 12:47

    +1

    "With great power comes great responsibility."

    If Spiderman was an ozbargain user, he wouldn't vote negatives willy-nilly!

• 

  Orbiiter on 02/02/2009 - 14:23

  Interesting… the McDonald's store next to my workplace doesn't have a sign, yet it's listed. I didn't know until I seen it on OzBargain. It's a good freebie, and I suppose that's why we have Freebies at the top of the page.

  Yes, there's a lot of garbage on this website, but if you make it too difficult to find (it's basically a forum as it is, and I like it that way) or submit deals, I would use the website less and less. For what it's worth, you look each day - there's maybe 10 new deals. It's not that hard to scroll and read through.