Requirement to Repair/Replace Lift in Apartment

ihbh on 29/03/2025 - 16:19

I'm not very familiar with strata arrangements of apartments and overhead something that piqued my interest.

An apartment has 2 buildings with three levels each. The front building has a lift, but the back one doesn't. The lift needs to be repaired/replaced.

  1. I would assume that the back building doesn't bear any strata costs of the lift, right? In any case, if it was pro-rated equally (by floor area or whatever) to all apartments, then whoever buys in after it was sold off by the developer, will have to bear their proportion of costs.

  2. If money is tight and everyone (every lot) agrees to decommission the lift, can they do that?

If one person or a minority disagrees (e.g. about to sell their apartment), can the lift be decommissioned? Also, what about disability access, e.g. someone in a wheel chair?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • AngoraFish on 29/03/2025 - 16:30
    +11

    All owners equally bear the costs. The stata is there to manage the whole block. Just like the ground floor units need to contribute to the cost of the lifts, it's not about which specific units get the benefits of any particular part of the building.

    Normally lifts are not required for blocks of three levels or less, so presumably they could decommission the lift if everyone agreed, unless it was a requirement of a planning permit or similar.

    Stratas do not require unanimous consent. If one person or a minority holds out they can be taken to court to make them pay.

    • ihbh on 29/03/2025 - 16:38

      Stratas do not require unanimous consent. If one person or a minority holds out they can be taken to court to make them pay.

      What if one lot uses a wheel chair? I suspect disability access is an important consideration.

      Also, what about the change in situation? E.g. someone buys in with lift access and a year later it suddenly stops because the others can't afford it.

      • AngoraFish on 29/03/2025 - 16:45
        +2

        In both cases they may have remedies by going to court, but it would depend on the specific context.

        Owners do on occasion get trapped with unaffordable costs to repair or maintain unlivable buildings, as has happened to many buildings with flammable cladding. It's one of the many downsides of buying into a strata.

      • bargaino on 29/03/2025 - 17:23
        +4

        It would be very foolish for someone who cannot walk to buy an upstairs unit, especially if only one lift. They are often out of order. Have you ever seen "The Big Bang Theory"?
        If a person becomes crippled, they (or insurance/welfare) would normally pay for modifications, such as ramps. It is not a strata responsibility.

        If they were renting, the decommissioning of a lift would be grounds for terminating the lease. For more specific legal advice, I suggest you specify a state.

        Larger buildings have more stringent rules for accessibility.

        • ihbh on 29/03/2025 - 18:18

          I live in a house. I'm just curious about a situation I heard of where some unit owners thought it would be better to save on strata fees by decommissioning the lift, especially the ones on the ground floor/don't use it.

          • bargaino on 29/03/2025 - 18:28
            +1

            @ihbh: Lifts are expensive to maintain. It would be tempting.

          • Dr Phil on 30/03/2025 - 16:22
            -1

            @ihbh: Then why are you wasting everyone's time here?

            • ihbh on 31/03/2025 - 07:00

              @Dr Phil: I would only waste the time of ignorant fools.

              It's useful information for other apartment owners and potential ones.

          • SlickMick on 31/03/2025 - 09:41

            @ihbh: That one would just depend on whether there is a relevant building code requiring it. e.g. if fire stairs are the only other entrance, it might not be allowed.
            (I'm sure we would have decommissioned the lift in our building if we were allowed.)

        • brad1-8tsi on 30/03/2025 - 09:03

          It would be very foolish for someone who cannot walk to buy an upstairs unit, especially if only one lift.

          The BBT is a fictional show and set in NY where the rules are probably quite different to Australian federal or state building codes.

          If a building is more than 3 stories you can't just say "stuff it, we will decommission the lifts" as a lift is required under the BCA. By law (NSW, not sure about other states) the lifts have to be serviced 6 monthly and certified every year. IIRC (it's been 9 years since I was "the lift guy" at work) there's a major service with mandatory parts replacement every 5 years.
          One major issue is parts. You can keep a lift running for 50 years if you can get parts.

          Regarding residents. If you purchase or rent a property with a lift it is beholden that the strata repair the lift in a timely manner.

          Lifts are a money pit. They easily add $10k+ per year in maintenance and certification costs and replacement of an existing units start at $150k as a like-for-like replacement. Much more if it has to be re-engineered.

          Avoid any strata with a lift, pool or gym.

        • jv on 31/03/2025 - 10:27

          Have you ever seen "The Big Bang Theory"?

          Can that be used as evidence in court?

      • Dr Phil on 30/03/2025 - 16:17
        -1

        "An apartment has 2 buildings with three levels each"

        That is a might big apartment….how many bedrooms and bathrooms?

        Are you sure its not an estate or a complex?

    • fantombloo on 29/03/2025 - 16:51
      +3

      All owners equally bear the costs.

      Not necessarily. Fees can be apportioned according to the member's stake in the property. (Actually binding, not "but I don't use it"). If you have twice the area you may have twice the contribution. Why not for a lift?

      • AngoraFish on 29/03/2025 - 16:56
        +2

        If the strata's specific rules nominate a variable percentage on fees (eg 2 bedroom units pay less than 3 bedroom units) then the cost of the lifts is levied according to that percentage. The costs are still equally spread amongst all owners according to the ratio that was previously set, not based on who uses the lifts.

        • fantombloo on 29/03/2025 - 18:16
          +1

          Yeah that's essentially what I said, probably badly.

          Depends how one interprets your original "equally."

        • shkippy on 29/03/2025 - 22:27
          +1

          Well in the strata that I bought into (having read all the AGMs) there was a proposal that a special levy would be made for units that are serviced by lifts, because there are a large proportion of units in my complex that don't have access to a lift. Anyway it was shot down, as I think it required two thirds majority for that motion to pass. Unfortunately I'm in one of the units that isn't serviced by a lift, so the lift maintenance still comes out of my strata fees even though I don't have access to one.

          • SlickMick on 31/03/2025 - 09:44

            @shkippy: Ouch you were robbed. That's the problem with no one turnnig up for AGMs - obviously all those serviced by lifts were there to vote for everyone chipping in.

      • brad1-8tsi on 30/03/2025 - 09:12

        Fees can be apportioned according to the member's stake in the property.

        You are almost correct but "it depends"

        I pay the highest strata fees in my block because I have the most sqm but in 2023 when we painted the building exterior our capital works fund was short $40k and the owners committee agreed on a flat $5k special levy per unit. Our owners committee discussions deemed that was fair and our strata manager suggest otherwise when directed to issue the levy notices.

    • AndyC1 on 29/03/2025 - 18:26
      -1

      Owners do not bear the costs equally. The bear the costs based on the % of the unit they own compared to the m2 of their unit compared to the total m2 of all of the units (common areas are excluded from the % calc).

      All units doe have to contribute to the common property maintenance.

      Unit owners arrears are usually given to a debt collector if they do not pay for an extended period of time as it is cheaper for the strata than taking them to court.

    • BronzingStubble on 31/03/2025 - 07:39

      Stratas do not require unanimous consent.

      Depends. We have some rules that do require unanimous consent to change them. Example: we wanted to decommission a medical alarm system. We have other rules that just need a majority. In WA.

  • MS Paint on 29/03/2025 - 16:45
    +3

    ADAALHS

    • tenpercent on 29/03/2025 - 18:07

      Another Day Another Apartment Lift Horror Story?

      • MS Paint on 29/03/2025 - 18:20
        +4

        Close.

        Another Day Another Apartment Living Horror Story

        Strata and apartment horror stories are quite common on here.

        I'm not sure if @mapax approves but I definitely know that @brendanm does.

        • brendanm on 29/03/2025 - 18:29
          +2

          You've got my vote.

        • mapax on 29/03/2025 - 18:29
          +3

          Approved

  • holdenmg on 29/03/2025 - 17:21
    +2

    Is anyone in the lift right now?

    (Kinda changes things) lol

  • jjjaar on 29/03/2025 - 17:22
    +1

    If the roof off your building blew off and needed to be replaced (and for arguments sake we’ll say it’s not covered by insurance), who do you think would cover that cost? Just the top floor of your building? Your whole building? Both buildings?

    • tenpercent on 29/03/2025 - 18:08

      Top floor mate.

      • jjjaar on 29/03/2025 - 18:21
        +1

        So if it’s not fixed and it rains, is it only gonna impact the top floor? Won’t the water eventually flood the top floor and travel down to the next level through their ceiling?

        What about the common halls and stairways? Surely rain will travel down to the lower floors.

        So. Still just top floor?

        • mooseca on 29/03/2025 - 18:56
          +1

          Completely wrong example, if the lift stops working it doesn't affect the ground floor.

          • tenpercent on 29/03/2025 - 19:19

            @mooseca: Good point!

          • TheRealCher on 30/03/2025 - 00:29
            +3

            @mooseca: it does if the carpark is in the basement

            • jjjaar on 31/03/2025 - 08:43

              @TheRealCher: Exactly. And/or the bins. Or if there’s any other communal facilities on non-ground floors (rooftop terrace, gym, etc.)

    • AndyC1 on 29/03/2025 - 19:27

      The place the roof landed on as they found it.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 29/03/2025 - 22:03

    I'm not very familiar with strata arrangements of apartments

    You don't say

    If money is tight and everyone (every lot) agrees to decommission the lift, can they do that?

    This will affect property value and rental capacity.

    I guarantee you won't get a unanimous decision anyway and I'm pretty sure that you can't just decide nah we don't wanna use the lift anymore.

    This is why I wouldn't buy a unit in a block with a lift.

  • vorsprung on 29/03/2025 - 23:15
    +1

    My complex needs $300-500k stormwater works, thanks to our developer not providing adequate capacity in their design.

    My townhouse isn’t affected though.

    Should I have to pay for it?

    If something fails on common property, it’s the body corporate’s responsibility.

    You don’t get to pick and choose who should bear that cost based on who it affects. Everyone pays into the sinking fund.

    Why should your block have the convenience of the lift, but not the other block? Would you be happy for them to pay reduced strata fees for the next few years as compensation? I doubt it. What if elderly/ disabled people rely on the lift? Stuff em.

    Selfish. You bought into a strata scheme, deal with it.

    • ihbh on 29/03/2025 - 23:37

      I live in a house. I'm just trying to understand what I perceived as a dilemma that I overhead from someone who lives in a complex.

      The person I heard it from lives in the back block without a lift.

      • vorsprung on 29/03/2025 - 23:43

        Sorry for the personal attack then. I didn’t read much into the language.

        Please replace “you” with “your acquaintance” etc.

        Strata sucks. I should know.

        • brad1-8tsi on 30/03/2025 - 09:43
          +1

          Agree. Strata sucks, especially when you are a practical person that is used to DIYing and getting the best deal. It's great if you're a busy person without practical skills.

          Only yesterday I ordered 2 extraction fans to replace 2 dead fans in our communal storage area. $152. I'll fit the plug at work. The holes in the wall need mods because the previous "tradesman" forced them in and bent the shrouds. I'll do about 4 hours work for the strata for free rather than pay a tradie $1000 but then it's done properly and it gives me a lot of "brownie points" to enable me to do other things that may annoy the neighbours.

          • jjjaar on 31/03/2025 - 08:47

            @brad1-8tsi:

            I'll do about 4 hours work for the strata for free rather than pay a tradie $1000 but then it's done properly

            Just be sure you check your strata insurance requirements, because if there’s no receipt and/or warranty from a licensed tradesperson, if something were to happen, your strata might not be covered under insurance, or even worse, YOU might be held liable as a result of your work.

            Might not necessarily be applicable to that specific fix you’re doing, but for other ones, just be cautious.

            • brad1-8tsi on 31/03/2025 - 19:24

              @jjjaar: All work is discussed with the other committee members. We are aware of what can & can't be done.

              You don't need to be a licensed tradesperson to:
              Remove a wasps nest
              Repair a loose stair tile.
              Pressure wash a driveway
              Bolt in an electric motor (you do need a licensed electrician to wire it up)

              • jjjaar on 02/04/2025 - 07:28

                @brad1-8tsi: It sounds like you know what’s going on, and have a decent understanding of it all.

                Unfortunately most people don’t. My comment was more for those who read these kinds of posts in the future when they have an issue of their own, see your comment then run with an idea for themselves to fix things quickly, but not realising the possible implications.

                We had someone in our old strata block think it was ok for him to change a light switch that was set the wrong way around (looked off when on and vice versa), which because it involves changing the wiring, it legally needs a sparky to do it, regardless of whether or not he was practically able to do the work.

                • brad1-8tsi on 02/04/2025 - 12:27

                  @jjjaar: Yep, there are three of us in the block that have the knowledge to do electrical work but either never had or have a lapsed license but we just shrug and call our trusted sparky.

                  Installing replacement exhaust fans in the storage areas this week and they need a plug put on them. I'll take them into work and wire them, do a continuity check & megger them and get the licensed dude to check & OK my work. I do a lot of 240/415v cabling under supervision. Totally legit when supervised.

                  Our building is insured for $8m and I can't afford to pay that if it goes pear shaped.

  • brad1-8tsi on 30/03/2025 - 09:32

    1) Unless the 2 buildings are on separate strata agreements all costs are born as needed from the either the administrative fund or the capital works fund which all tennants pay into based on their "votes".
    My friend has an apartment in Mosman and the front half is a 130yo heritage listed brick building with 12 apartments and the rear and 80yo timber addition with 6 apartments. The buildings require totally different maintenance and should be on separate strata plans. When the timber building requires painting the brick building contributes 2/3rds of the cost. Because of the heritage nature of the brick building it requires high cost items like copper roof plumbing, a slate roof and original stained glass windows preserved and reset into new timber frames. The timber building pays 1/3 of that including 1/3 of the $600k in special levies (fo both buildings that have been issued over the past 5 years.

    2) The Building Code of Australia and your Strata Manager should be your guide.
    Money shouldn't be tight. Your strata should have commissioned a maintenance plan with estimated costs from a quantity surveying firm. They are cheap (approximately $800) and recommended for strata <12(?) units and compulsory for blocks =>12(?) units. The levies for the capital works fund are then based on the maintenance plan. If the strata doesn't do this they are in breach of the strata laws.

    You can always ring your strata manager and ask them what the law is. I would strongly suggest you get involved in the strata.

    • ihbh on 31/03/2025 - 07:07

      Thanks for that - it's very helpful with comments from @AngoraFish.

      The problem for the people I mention is that they have language problems and also there is the "problem of the commons", so some owners are only concerned when the levies increase dramatically (but off a low base).

      The apartment owners were so silly collectively last year to have run down the administrative fund that they could only afford insurance on monthly installments, which costs proportionately a lot more, without any competition to compare against. And they have limited repair costs to $X max p.a. and are looking at decommissioning big ticket items to limit the levy increases, which only works short term, but is a noose around their necks in the medium/long term.

      • brad1-8tsi on 31/03/2025 - 22:11

        What state are they in? How many units in the block?

        I know that NSW has quite strict laws now about insurance, balances in the admin & capital works fund, etc.

        Their Strata Manager should be guiding them on these things, ours does.

        Language difficulties shouldn't stop them attending the AGM. They obviously understand enough to know what the committee is trying to do.

        If they think the Owners Corporation isn't doing their job properly they should make a complaint to the appropriate state body the oversees strata. In NSW it's NCAT.
        Stratahub might be a good place to get info https://www.stratahub.nsw.gov.au/
        or https://www.nsw.gov.au/housing-and-construction/strata

        • ihbh on 01/04/2025 - 06:55

          NSW; 16.

          I don't know enough about the quality of the Owners Corporation to comment. Thanks for that guidance.

          Just two interesting observations I gleaned:

          1. There was a complaint about the cleaning contract that went to one of the owners last year, who only cleaned around his apartment. So they fired him and one owner suggested a friend to put in a quote.

          2. They put a limit of expenditure to $10k, presumably anything more requires waiting for the next AGM or a special meeting!

          • brad1-8tsi on 02/04/2025 - 12:34

            @ihbh: There's nothing wrong with a friend quoting providing the person that knows them abstains from voting. The Strata Manager should have a few cleaning companies that can tender for the contract.

            Our cleaner / bin guy, who is quite crap at his job, charges $120 a week to put out/bring in the bins and blow the dust from one end of the complex to the other.

            Your Strata Manager can call a meeting by ZOOM and take minutes on the discussion and vote. We've done it a few times when issues can't wait for a meeting.
            We are currently getting a quote to have the NBN upgraded from FTTN to FTTP. All the approvals from owners are being done by email.

  • AustriaBargain on 30/03/2025 - 11:11
    +1

    Are you even allowed to decommission the only lift, aren't there accessibility laws?

  • SlickMick on 31/03/2025 - 09:50

    There seems to be a lot of "it depends".

    Our unit pays the same levies as the bigger units, but a 2nd tower has an additional levy for thier gas heating which we don't have and therefore don't pay for.

    When I bought the unit, the committee had voted on whether to insure the building (it wasn't). They can vote on anything, but decommissioning a lift could potentially turn out to be illegal.
    I'm not clear on the voting rules, but I think you just need a minimum attendance for the vote to count, then more fors then againsts win.

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