Considering a First Electric Car. Are Nissan Leafs That Bad?

barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:26
Last edited 25/03/2025 - 14:27

Hello brainstrust

I've been interested in electric cars for a while. We'll soon get solar panels (and am open to a battery if the costs weigh up), so the value prop is starting to shape up. Having said that, I'm not 100% convinced so would like to test the waters with an EVwithout investing a lot of money.

We're in a position where this car only needs to travel around town, and selling the old ICE vehicle will net us ~$15k?

This has squarely put us in the realm of a new/almost new small Chinese brand (with a decent chunk of extra money put in) or - an older Nissan Leaf (2016/2017 onwards, from $16k+++). Are these older Nissan Leafs as bad as some people say?

  • I know Nissan haven't been great with ICE reliability (gearboxes particularly), but I assume these gearboxes are either different, or non-existent
  • they have relatively modern safety features like AEB, lane change alerts, blind spot monitoring etc (which is a must)
  • I don't know much about their charging tech - this could be an issue…
  • Range doesn't look as good as newer models, but this vehicle won't need to cover long distances

Anyone have first hand experience? Better alternatives at a similar price? Or is the tech just too recent to have worthwhile second hand options?

Automotive Car Electric Vehicle Nissan

Comments

    • Gdsamp on 25/03/2025 - 14:37
      +8

      Yes I often see teslas Tailgating….

    • Murkymerv on 25/03/2025 - 16:13
      -3

      And any other EV !

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:41
      +3

      Sorry if I wasn't clear - looking strictly for an EV only, not a hybrid… unless they've announced an EV only Corolla and I've missed it? That would be big news!

        • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:51
          +11

          Thanks for clarifying. There's probably no need for me to swap my current ICE car for another one

            • timthetoolman on 25/03/2025 - 18:23
              +33

              @jv:

              stop wasting our time

              Oh, the irony

                • illusion99 on 27/03/2025 - 12:52

                  @jv: You should be embarrassed that after all your comments you still can’t spell or use automated spell check

                  • jv on 27/03/2025 - 12:54

                    @illusion99: I used pigeon english.

                    • kiitos on 27/03/2025 - 22:27
                      +1

                      @jv: Can't tell if the irony of that spelling was intentional or not

            • smartazz104 on 27/03/2025 - 07:06
              +1

              @jv: Come on jv, you have plenty of time, given you are supporting a 20-comment-a-day habit.

      • Dr Phil on 26/03/2025 - 08:19
        -3

        Major car manufacturers and now pulling back from plans to be manufacturing 100% Evs by 2030.
        There are good reasons for this dear OP.
        Toyota has indicated they will focus on Hybrids instead, in which they have already been very successful.

        Be guided by the market dear OP.
        Not by blinded politicians that have no grasp of reality.

        • klaw81 on 26/03/2025 - 08:26
          +6

          "The market" is a terrible guide - it's a lagging indicator of consumer trends.

          If you think demand for EVs has anything to do with politicians, you're part of the problem.

          • Speckled Jim on 26/03/2025 - 09:05
            +1

            @klaw81: It's more nuanced than either of you are presenting. It's not an either-or/black-white/binary proposition.

            To ignore incentives and rebates as part of government policies worldwide is short-sighted.

            After all, Tesla pays attention and games the system to fraudulently secure government rebates just before their cutoff date.

            Begs the question: how many cases go undetected?

            Governments, too are short-sighted if they think they can rush the market to EVs. If they're going to half-arse a charging network, an EV can't be a one-car garage for anyone who drives interstate.

            Car companies are learning a hard lesson too. The market doesn't want something inferior in key areas of practicality and convenience. If you're forced to buy a second (ICE/hybrid) car, EVs aren't yet the answer.

            • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 00:48
              +1

              @Speckled Jim: I drove interstate recently, I didn't need to drive their non stop and I saved about 500 bucks at least in fuel, probably more like 800 because I drove around the destination too (but as Gerry says, I am a professional)

              • kiitos on 27/03/2025 - 07:11

                @Jackson: How much planning did you have to do for when to stop on the trip?

                Was the expected range for each leg accurate?

                Did you ever have to wait for a charger to become available?

              • aong152 on 27/03/2025 - 13:01
                +1

                @Jackson: Last time I drove interstate, it was like 1-2 tanks of fuel which is $100-$150. Not sure how you saved 500 bucks.

                • TightKingBilly on 02/04/2025 - 12:17

                  @aong152: I mean, "Drove interstate" is ridiculously vague and a worthless point of comparison without being a lot more specific. It could mean driving from Albury to Wodonga in a new corolla or it could mean driving from Cairns to Perth in a 1992 petrol patrol towing 3 tonnes. Both are driving interstate but are vastly different trips in vastly different vehicles with vastly different fuel requirements.

  • HunterBargainHunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:41
    +11

    Not that bad, it’s worse.
    Way behind on technology
    Batteries will deteriorate like a ride on toy
    Nissan have bad after sale customer service.

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:48

      Thanks - makes sense that Nissan have poor support, which you would no doubt need if the battery degrades a lot.

  • MrHyde on 25/03/2025 - 14:41
    +1

    Yes, EV tech has changed significantly in the last 5 years; let alone 8 years for a 2016 Leaf.

    Also, in the last 8 years, the Leaf battery would have suffered some degradation - so it won't be anywhere near the range that would have been advertised when new… think 80% of original capacity.

    Charging Tech - not much issue - will need to get an adaptor to convert from the Leaf charging point to the point used by Tesla and most other chargers in Australia.

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:50

      Thanks - yeah that's interesting. I understand the tech has moved on, but for an 'experiment that doesn't cost the earth', I'd be happy with older tech as long as the practical impact isn't as big.

      Yeah ok - do you know what type of battery is used in these? I can probably look it up. Would make sense if it's an old battery tech, then it could be more susceptible to degradation.

      • buckster on 25/03/2025 - 20:28

        All I can say is I know someone who bought a second hand old leaf, couldn't tell you how much degradation they had but it sounds like a massive hassle.

        It's just get a byd atto or whatever is cheap and new

      • greatlamp on 26/03/2025 - 23:55
        +2

        You're looking at a range of 50-100km for the old ones. If that's OK with you they are reliable cars.

  • mapax on 25/03/2025 - 14:52
    +4

    IMO Nissan leaf should be a sub $8k car by now.

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:56

      Oh right - I see some really old examples that sort of price range.

      What are you experiences with them?

      • mapax on 25/03/2025 - 15:18
        +6

        No personal experience. Most used car prices are ridiculous.
        Have a read up on their battery degradation, the 8 year battery warranty, and then consider that the 2016 is a 9 year old car. No way I’d pay $16k for that.

        • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 00:52
          +1

          The battery went through a number of improvements by 2016, including increases in capacity, which meant much lower degradation, as such a 2016 Leaf != 2012 Leaf

  • Cluster on 25/03/2025 - 14:57
    +6

    First generation LEAF should not be purchased at any price. These are all well on the way to the scrap heap through battery failure.

    Second gen LEAF is fine, but not good. Crucially it lacks liquid battery cooling that all modern EVs have. This helps extend the lifespan on the battery.

    All EV batteries degrade with age and use, but how much they degrade depends on the chemistry, how the car was charged, and whether it operated in a hot climate.

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 14:59
      +1

      That's great feedback - a lack of liquid battery cooling - in Australia's climate I can see why that would be an issue.

      • jv on 25/03/2025 - 18:34
        -1

        in Australia's climate I can see why that would be an issue.

        Nothing to do with the climate. Has to do when they heat up charging/discharging….

      • ricadam on 25/03/2025 - 15:38
        +10

        How many thousands of tonnes of dirt and….

        Probably still less that the entire life of an equivalent ICE when you include the fuel it needed and it's exhaust…

        It was a GEN 1 EV. People who bought it were essentially beta testers.

        • Nalar on 25/03/2025 - 17:02
          +2

          Except the ICE should last you 15-20 years. Nobody would buy an ICE that lasts just 8-9 years.

          • jv on 25/03/2025 - 18:37
            +2

            @Nalar: My 1974 HQ purrrrs like a kitten…

            • JIMB0 on 25/03/2025 - 19:56

              @jv: Two fluffy three?

        • jv on 25/03/2025 - 18:36
          -4

          Probably still less that the entire life of an equivalent ICE when you include the fuel it needed and it's exhaust…

          Nope, not even close if you look over the same period of time, especially since there are still lots of ICE cars from the 80s/90s running fine…

      • Euphemistic on 25/03/2025 - 15:41
        +4

        Its not that bad. Yes, it was early tech and led the way for modern EVs.

        The batteries can still be used for housshold storage etc. They are cheaper than new and do a very good job for lower current draw. There is a football stadium in europe powered on ex-leaf batteries.

        The batteries can be recycled if they are well and truly dead. The main reason they arent recycled in large quantities is that there isnt large quantities that have been scrapped.

        Other than that, you can get also get a replacement battery pack for a leaf with better capacity that original for half the cost of a new EV.

        On top of that, a nissan leaf will have created less pollution than an equivalent petrol vehicle in those 8 years. Less pollution even when powered by coal, while a petrol vehicle literally burns fuel once and its gone.

        So no. Its not a complete waste of resources.

        • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 00:58

          The leaf has basically made up for the environmental impact of its manufacture in under 2 years of typical driving when compared to an ICE car. People on this forum often know less than nothing about this topic, maybe because of the oil and car lobby spreading misinformation.

          Instead of getting options from armchair critics who don't own the car, OP should join the Leaf Facebook group and ask his questions there from actual owners who know the vehicle inside out.

      • smartazz104 on 27/03/2025 - 07:07
        +1

        Why don't you provide the figures for EV vs ICE then.

        • Euphemistic on 27/03/2025 - 13:45

          What figures do you want? Which comparison?

        • klaw81 on 27/03/2025 - 18:16
          +1

          Here's an exhaustive comparison of the environmental impacts associated with the lifecycle of both ICE and EV. The article compares mid-size SUVs, but the proportions should be similar regardless of vehicle size.

          https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-27/comparing-electric-ca…

          TLDR: The break-even point for an Australian EV is about 40,000km, which is about 3.5 years for the average Australian vehicle. Beyond that, the emissions from driving an ICE make them worse overall - and that assumes no further emissions reductions in the production of electricity (very unlikely).

  • klaw81 on 25/03/2025 - 15:04
    +3

    I was in a similar situation about 12 months ago - my old Corolla was written off by a careless driver on his phone, and I got an insurance payout to buy a replacement. I already owned an EV family car and absolutely love it, and I really wanted a cheap EV for short trips to and from work.

    I looked very carefully at the early model Leaf as an option, but came to the conclusion that they're poor value for money compared to ICE vehicles of a similar age. They have limited range which makes them less flexible, the poor battery design makes them a a liability in the longer term, and if you're only going to be driving short distances, the fuel savings for an EV aren't going to add up much.

    There are any number of small hatchbacks and sedans that are well equipped and comfortable, and 30% cheaper. I ended up with a well-maintained, low-km CJ Lancer for $5k than the cheapest Leaf within 500km.

    I'm pretty hopeful that next time, I will have an all-EV household, but it's going to take a few more years of Chinese EVs before they drop into my budget for a commuter car.

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 15:28

      Awesome insights - thanks so much.

      It really feels like we're just not yet at the point of having cheaper/viable second hand EVs. Sounds like I might have to reconsider my approach and get a decent EV, or hold off for a few years.

  • oscargamer on 25/03/2025 - 15:14
    +5

    Used MG4

    https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/?q=(And.(C.Make.MG..Model.MG4.).Condition.Used..Year.range(2024..)..SellerType.Private.)&sort=~Price

    • WhyAmICommenting on 27/03/2025 - 00:36
      +1

      This is the answer, it’s a great car full stop. Even the app works pretty wellwell.

  • Drakesy on 25/03/2025 - 15:25
    +4

    Who in their right mind would consider a Leaf

    Get an MG4 with warranty and be happy you'll get more than 200km a charge.
    Leafs are dated technology that really belong in the scrap heap.

    China is leading the charge.

  • wannagrababargain on 25/03/2025 - 15:29

    Yea Nah

  • Wiadro on 25/03/2025 - 15:32
    -2

    buy a old v8

    • Nugs on 27/03/2025 - 00:26

      *an
      .

  • netjock on 25/03/2025 - 15:38
    +1

    It depends.

    Per above. Air cooled so if you live in Victoria, SA or Tas might be worthwhile if you find a good example.

    Plus you could one day use it as a household / business battery like this guy https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2024-11-15/vehicle-to-gr…

  • Euphemistic on 25/03/2025 - 15:43
    +3

    If yoy are aware of its pitfalls then i dont see why not. Yes, itll have a short battery range, but if it suits your purpose as a runabout and you can get one for $10k then why not?

    Id seriously considered one as a car for my kid to drive around town. Weve got other options for long trips and if its sitting home all day and driving 20-30km at night it seems very cheap motoring.

    What about a Hyundai ioniq or kona? They seem to start at about $20k.

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 19:39

      That’s fair - eyes wide open and all. Seems like there have been some pretty terrible ownership experiences with the Lead though, which makes me worry.

      Good call on the Hyundais; hadn’t considered them

      • Euphemistic on 25/03/2025 - 20:06
        +2

        Need to be a little wary about EV 'bad experiences' in the online world. There is a lot of misinformation out there and its boosted by the marketing teams at big oil.

        Yes, the leaf has its issues, but there are a lot of early adopters that who have had good experiences with the leaf simply because they were not expecting too much from an early example of an EV.

  • tanksinatra on 25/03/2025 - 15:51
    +3

    Don't do it. Two major problem with all Nissan Leafs:
    Air-cooled battery - fast degradation, slow charging speeds and risk of chargegate on road trips.
    CHADEMO plug - Incompatible with most DC fast charge (CCS2) plugs.

    As a cheap $5-10k runabout it might work, but imagine how hard it will be to sell when the battery is even worse, CHADEMO is completely dead and Chinese EV's keep getting cheaper.

    • barge-in hunter on 25/03/2025 - 19:39
      +1

      Understand- it’s almost like you have to commit to being the last owner

  • JimmyF on 25/03/2025 - 16:28

    Are Nissan Leafs That Bad?

    Yes /thread

  • rambutann on 25/03/2025 - 16:51
    +2

    Yeah nah.
    Get an MG4 or some other sub $50k EV on a novated lease (way cheaper than buying outright).
    Get a 7kw charger at home.
    If you're in a state that has access to the Ovo 3 free plan if your car will be at home at least 3 days a week during the day otherwise get the EV plan.
    Live your best life.

    Just want to reiterate - don't buy an EV with cash. Ain't nobody doing that.

    • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 01:06

      MG4 is double the price just about. If OP can't afford it for a few more years that's a few more years of paying for petrol and servicing that he could have saved

    • kiitos on 27/03/2025 - 22:53

      EV on a novated lease (way cheaper than buying outright)

      Why is a novated lease cheaper than buying outright?

      • rambutann on 29/03/2025 - 17:23

        It’s quite an extensive calculation but ill try keep it basic.

        All costs associated with the car come out of your pre tax income. So assuming one earns $45-135k - you’re essentially paying 30% less straight up. A $70k EV includes gst, so its $63k (ex gst because your work will pay the gst component), minus your tax rate. So in this case it ends up being $44,100 plus bank interest plus lease fees. So probably a couple of grand over the course of the loan.

        In addition to that, rego decreases from $800 to $560. Insurance goes from say $1200 to $840, etc etc. the more money you make the more you save due to being in a higher tax bracket. You even get reimbursed for every km you drive (i believe i get 4.2c/km or about $600 a year).

        Novated leases used to have a fbt component which made them slightly better than buying outright but not way better. EV’s are fbt free.

        This is the reason why EV’s depreciate so fast.. because as you can see, a $70k EV is instantly worth mid-$45k’s because thats realistically what people are paying for them…

        • kiitos on 29/03/2025 - 17:31

          Thanks, I understand now.

  • skid on 25/03/2025 - 16:53
    +1

    The batteries of a 2016 Leaf would have already degraded to nothing.

    According to Nissan, the second gen October 2017 Leaf has an 8 year battery guarantee. If the guarantee can be claimed, then I guess it could be ok

    https://www.nissan.com.au/about-nissan/ev-hub/technology/nis…

  • JIMB0 on 25/03/2025 - 17:30
    -1

    Generally people who buy a Nissan haven't done their homework and are just attracted by the cheap price.

  • wal990 on 25/03/2025 - 20:22
    +2

    Leaf is considered inferior tech by standard and by actual owner experience. Poor battery chemistry, outdated charging standard and proven poor degradation to name a few.

    cheapest alternatives are the MG4 base, BYD Dolphin and GWM Ora, all have superior LFP batteries.

    • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 01:07

      And all are double the price of what the OP is looking at spending

      • May4th on 27/03/2025 - 09:18

        because they are all at least 5years newer?

  • buckster on 25/03/2025 - 20:36

    Look at Oly and if doing a novated lease works in your favour rather than paying cash. Good prices for byd and mg

  • jjj123 on 25/03/2025 - 21:55
    +1

    Second hand byd

  • Thinkscape on 26/03/2025 - 09:30
    +2

    https://youtu.be/Kon5X62EOsE?si=jXex0YGDX5gYmRDM

    Leaf have fallen behind a lot in tech, I’d stay away. Used Model 3 will be much better experience in every way.
    Otherwise consider a new car from newly released 2025 models from Chinese brands with aggressive pricing.

  • Jono05 on 26/03/2025 - 12:20
    +1

    Never had a problem with a Nissan gearbox and I’ve had 4, manual and auto.

    • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 01:09

      Exactly, it's only the CVTs that have issues, and this is an EV and it doesn't even have a gearbox, more just a final drive. Yet people are happy to wax on like they know something when they know SFA about the topic. It's horrendous

      • Jono05 on 27/03/2025 - 04:43
        +1

        Just traded in my 2016 X-Trail which was a CVT. No issues with the gearbox in over 8 years.

  • md333 on 26/03/2025 - 17:37
    +1

    Should probably look at some Leaf owner forums if you are interested.
    They have serious limitations compared to newer EVs, but I think the prices a starting to come down to the point they may be worth it.
    Short range may not be an issue for your intended use.
    There were some major issues with some of the early batteries.
    Some of them were not so bad.
    Quite a few of the bad ones have now been replaced under warranty.
    Needs a lot of research to understand the differences.
    The 2018 on models are a pretty substantial upgrade from the earlier ones. Note that many are Japanese domestic market models that have been imported second hand. This can have implications for warranty and recalls (and the infotainment systems). I believe they don't suffer the same battery issues of the earlier ones, but would research it further before buying one. They are still air cooled but I don't think its necessarily a bad thing if it is effective.

  • airzone on 26/03/2025 - 22:52

    Air cooled batteries reduce the life by an order of magnitude. Also they use the chademo connector instead of ccs2, so you will likely have limited charging opportunities on the road.

    Leaf is not the answer

    • Euphemistic on 27/03/2025 - 05:20

      What if the question is "what EV can i get to drive 10km to the station and charge in my drivewy?"

  • idalla on 27/03/2025 - 00:01
    +1

    It depends on your financial circumstances, but for average-to-high income earners, getting a good novated lease arrangement on a new or new-ish EV is the best way to 'buy' a car now. The tax benefits are enormous, just shop around to get a good finance rate.

    A $40k EV could very well cost you less all in than a $20k secondhand ICE vehicle. Check out the MG4 and new Geely EX5, or used Teslas, etc.

  • massari on 27/03/2025 - 00:55
    +1

    Classic ioniq is best value. You can pick one up for under 20k. They are reliable and economic. Stay away from the leaf unless you get at a discount.

  • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 01:35
    +6

    From and actual Leaf owner, almost everything everyone above has complained about is mostly bullish!t. E.g.

    Nissan makes crap gearboxes: thanks, this doesn't have one

    Leaf batteries for a 2016 will be rubbish by now: Yeah nah, I have a 2012 with the absolute worst battery they came with and still drive daily in 2025

    There are zero fast chargers: no, there are still a number depending on where you live, if you have Jolt carers around all of them still support Chademo, and if you are charging at home this probably doesn't matter anyway, if it truly does matter to you an adapter can be purchased for under a grand

    They are way lacking in tech: not really, if you get a 2018 or onwards model they have carolay and Android auto, which is mostly what people care about. Front hat year they also have most of the autonomous safety features too

    They are unreliable junk: this couldn't be further from the truth, Leafs are so inherently reliable that almost no one pays for servicing and yet even the earliest models have next to zero issues. More reliable than my Camry

    The emissions are a false economy becuase they don't last more than a few years: this is also total BS, the emissions for an average distance driver is ahead in under 2 years, and after that a Leaf is just getting more and more environmentally friendly

    You should but a BYD/MG/Tesla: these are all double the price, and unless you can buy one straight away you will be losing $2-4k at least of savings driving on electricity that petrol a d needing servicing. If you delay to purchase 3 years that's 6-12k, a very significant portion of the up front cost. Not to mention an MG4 or dolphin are smaller cars

    The lack of liquid cooling makes the car unbuyable: actually while it is good to have liquid cooling and LFP cells, the later model Leafs actually hold their capacity much better than anyone expected, which is mainly because when you go to a higher capacity battery (all post 2018 models were 40kWh or 62kWh) there are much lower loads and heat generated when charging as its spread over more capacity. This seems to have made the batteries way more robust, to the point where some people are willing to upgrade their batteries with modern NMC cells and are reporting excellent results, again because larger batteries handle charging better than smaller ones.

    You need to get a novated lease: this completely depends on your level of job security, if you expect to be in the same workplace in 5 years then it's a great option, if you have relatively insecure work it's going to suck to have to pay out your lease in 1 or 2 years, your call really

    A Leaf performs admirably as an EV, provided you aren't constantly doing interstate driving and relying solely on fast charging outside the home. If you have 30k+ to spend, yes there are other options but the pay back period will be double. The other car to look at if you can stretch to 20k that isn't a unicorn is maybe the MG ZS EV, it's about the same size and practicality, does have a liquid cooled battery and is a bit newer. It's lacks a bit in some other areas, drive might be a bit less nice, it's an SUvlV which may not be to your liking, doesn't have vehicle to grid I believe, and is built on an adapted petrol/ICE platform and not a ground up EV like the Leaf.

    • Euphemistic on 27/03/2025 - 05:25

      Can you comment on your current range or battery health after 13y?

      • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 15:43
        +2

        Yes of course, the battery started off as a lowly 24kWh battery that did about 150km on a charge, and it's now half that, so I get about 75km out of a single charge. One of the issues with the Leaf (and some other EVs) is that they don't give you accurate readings on battery life, it's inherently hard, and it's exacerbated by the way Nissan programmed their BMS. Either way, it's degraded significantly, but it's still good for 90+% of our trips.

        I that time the car has saved me, conservatively, about $2k I petrol per year (likely more really, I calculated that way back when petrol was a buck 1.40 or so) , and let's call it $500/year in servicing for the average person (not exactly the case for me because I do my own servicing, but that costs me time and time is moneyl. At that rate in the last 10 years it's saved me $25k. I bought the car for $22,500, so the car has paid for itself easily compared to buying petrol. Show me another car that does that in the same time frame

        • May4th on 27/03/2025 - 15:56

          wow 75km range on a car. the thing is we are not here for justification of your decision at the time when it was one of the few EVs available. we are looking at whether it's a good idea to buy it now for the OP, and given the abundance EVs with superior battery tech and longevity available nowadays I still can't see a single reason to buy leaf in this day and age

          50% degradation after 13years is quite significant considering what we are seeing with modern EV especially LFP batteries that lasts more than 500k kms

          • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 16:04

            @May4th: Yeah that's 75km on a car that's worth about 8k, and yes you are right it's not about justifying my position it's about the OPs budget and use case, and by spending 15k on a far newer one that has newer battery tech, degrades even slower, and starts off with a 40kWh battery which is nearly double the size of mine, he's going to have little to no issues and it will beat the pants of any ICE or Hybrid in economy

            • May4th on 27/03/2025 - 16:27

              @Jackson: fair enough, and full credit to you for being an early adopter and taking the leap of faith on what would have been an adventurous decision at the time that's paid off. I don't disagree the leaf won't be a workable option, I just think there are better buys for the price

              • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 21:43

                @May4th: I was early, but it was by virtue of the fact that the cars hadn't been out long, people are generally risk averse, and so the price range of second hand non Tesla EVs at the time varied greatly, and for the leaf it was anywhere from 22-45k, so I was lucky to get one at the bottom end and after doing the numbers and understanding the inherent reliability of the tech it wasnt a hard decision, albeit there's always a bit of second guessing yourself. It's no different to working out the numbers on roof top solar, or any other investment

            • Euphemistic on 27/03/2025 - 17:01
              +1

              @Jackson: Thanks. My cousin bought a leaf some time ago. They drove it from hobart to sydney successfully. Just had to take the scenic route! He has now converted an old mini tractor to electric.

    • cloudy on 27/03/2025 - 07:34
      +2

      These comments from actual owners should be stuck up the top.

    • May4th on 27/03/2025 - 09:10

      no matter how you twist it the older gen leaf is antique with a flawed battery technology with much greater degradation and Chademo chargers which is being phased out. I'm glad you are happy with yours but have you been in a modern EV? almost all your arguments are 'yes it's bad but it's not THAT bad'
      the reason why it's cheap is it's one of the first EVs to be released so when you see 8yo BYD dolphins I'm sure they will be sub 16k.

      if your budget is <20k and can't access novated lease do yourself a favour and get a cheap japanese ICE/hybrid or save up a bit more as there are a lot more options in the 20-30k range. I can't see how anyone can recommend in good conscience an almost 10yo obsolete EV with a big question on battery lifespan and barely 200km range if you are lucky. you are also committing yourself to owning it forever because as you can see in this post, no one is going to buy it off you so whatever fuel saving you think you are making it's eaten up by the resale

      • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 16:01

        Yes the original Leafs, compared to modern EVs, have batteries that don't perform as well as newer ones. Mainly that they degrade faster and secondarily they don't like to be fast charged, flogged, and then fast charged again, and flogged and fast charged again. As such don't buy one expecting to go interstate all the time, you can do it in a pinch, esp if you have an overnight stay or you have the biggest battery, but I wouldn't recommend that.

        Having said tht, in case you haven't noticed, battery tech has come absolute leaps and bounds from where it was 10 years ago, to the point where standard CATL made NMC (not LFP) cells are being put into old Leafs at a capacity of 63kWh and with theses owners are reporting excellent range and degredatins figures so far. It's only been a year or two since this has been available to in time we should be able to say with even more confidence that cooling, while it should be in every new car, is not necessarily required if you slow charge at home and aren't flogging the car driving interstate and trying to fast charge all the time.

        ICE doesn't give you the petrol savings, and hybrid only somewhat so, and both still need regular servicing, so there's never going to be a pay back period like I described. Not one person who owns one of these shares you opinion, they all see how easy the car is to live with and how much it saves them and laugh all the way to the bank.

        • May4th on 27/03/2025 - 16:29
          +1

          I would probably go for a LFP battery which is actually cheaper compared to NMC as they are less energy dense but tends to handle 0-100% charging better and have better longevity. I guess my ICE comment was more for having more time to save up for a newer EV if everything else was out of budget. ie. buy a 15yo 5k corolla, drive it for a year, sell it for 5k (which is pretty realistic)

          • Jackson on 27/03/2025 - 21:30
            +1

            @May4th: Agree with you there, the second car I bought a year ago does have an 72kWh LFP battery and after having a gen 1 leaf it was high on my priority list. I drove to Melbourne and back and it consistently did just shy of 300km on a charge and that was fully laden and often driving at 120km/h which is a worst case scenario. I get at least 400km around town so it's happy days, and the car so far hasn't skipped a beat even though it's coming up to 2 years old now.

            On the back of the news that the CATL NMC cells are going well in the Leaf, I am hanging out for someone to make an LFP battery and then I really think liquid cooling won't be much of a factor at all. It's not straightforward however, as it requires significant changes to the BMS as if you straight swap the cells in the banks don't have enough voltage to match the NMC cells, which Si a real shame. I am sure someone could eventually crack it, but if the NMC cells are here and now and people are happy with them there might not be enough reason for someone to spend the time figuring it out. I did hear of one guy selling LFP but it was 5k more for a 50kwh battery and I don't know if it would be worth it

    • barge-in hunter on 27/03/2025 - 10:16
      +1

      Thanks for sharing @Jackson - really appreciate the ownership insights.

      Sounds like your experience with one has been pretty good as a daily runabout. That's good to hear, especially that your battery hasn't degraded too much.

      If possible, can you share your battery health info? Keen to understand that

      • Jackson on 29/03/2025 - 12:17

        No worries, it's here: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16382396/redir

        Short answer is battery degrades but it doesn't matter in isolation, only when comparing to other EVs, which cost twice as much, and if you are putting off a purchase because of that I wouldn't, the economics work and the sooner you jump over the sooner you start saving money. The real questions are around if it suits you, and while it suits the vast majority of people there are people on the fringes, but you are past this point.

  • beach bum on 27/03/2025 - 06:12

    Just buy one , how can you go wrong, and worst comes to worst you get a little Honda generator to chuck in the boot as a back up

  • v2t on 27/03/2025 - 08:37
    +2

    @barge-in hunter - I'm with @Jackson, I am also a Leaf owner and I agree that almost everything everyone above has complained about is mostly bullsh!t. I suspect many of the people on this forum have never actually owned an EV.

    Mine is a the ZE0 2017 model and they are rock solid. Bought the car in 2018 and the battery has not degraded from 100% so far. Love the e-pedal - it makes driving a joy when you get used to it. Switch off eco mode and you've got some serious acceleration in it.

    The only minor issue is that newer EVs have better battery density/capacity - the base Nissan Leaf 2017 model sold in Oz, has around 270 km range which is fine for city commutes.

    One bit of advice from another Leaf owner - seriously look at getting a Japanese second-hand import as there are models in Japan that were not available in Oz and many of the imports have more powerful motors and extra features. I believe they can be converted so most buttons and the entertainment system is English.

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