OzBargain geared towards positive votes

tyler.durden on 28/12/2012 - 05:35

Hi

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this issue.

On Ozbargain, you can give a + vote easily but require a comment before you can give a negative vote.

As a result, it just too much effort/extra work to give a negative vote
so you just give a plus vote to a thread ..rather than giving a negative vote to a thread, even if you don't think the deal is that great.

Also sometimes you want to track a thread, but only option is to give a plus vote since giving a negative vote requires more effort by needing to add a comment.

Anyone else done the same?

Site Discussion

Comments

  • tikei on 28/12/2012 - 05:43
    +7

    Nope, if I find a deal to be mediocre I leave it without voting. I only cast neg votes if the 'deals' are actually plain advertising. I'm pretty sure this voting system is meant to deter people from casting neg votes, so as to not discourage people from contributing.

    If you want to keep track of certain deals, you can click 'subscribe' near the end of the opening post

  • Moderatorneil on 28/12/2012 - 09:43

    Is this site geared to positive votes? Yes. This a site where people are looking for bargains, thus we are geared towards positive voting things of interest.

    If it was a site for people looking for bad bargains, then negative voting would probably be promoted. Well..there's an idea.

    If you like the deal, vote positive. If you don't like the deal, don't vote. If there is an issue with a deal like a listing error, duplicate, etc. use the report button. See voting guidelines. If there is a big issue with the deal, then surely writing a sentence or 2 telling us why is not too much of a burden in order to vote negative?

    Also sometimes you want to track a thread, but only option is to give a plus vote since giving a negative vote requires more effort by needing to add a comment.

    As above, Subscribe button

    or

    Add Reminder, which you can notify you say when the deal starts or a couple days from now

    or

    Add to Folders where you can add deals to your own custom lists, e.g. "Deals I'm tracking".

  • Moderatorscotty on 28/12/2012 - 10:01

    There's currently an ongoing discussions regarding to negative votes, and the general consensus is to make it harder and less effective rather than easier. If you wish to track deals, check what @neil has said above.

    Also neil wrote this in our blog — How to remember deals that start in the future

  • bigpallooka on 28/12/2012 - 14:31

    As with any forum if you say something that others don't agree with they have the choice to respond. With easy negative voting you get negative trolls who don't need to justify their vote. Being too lazy to leave a comment indicates you don't feel very strongly about the issue. Often a negative vote can be irrelevant to the deal or comment, I don't like the dealer, I don't like your avatar, I don't agree with your statement, you can't spell, you disagreed with me, I am in a bad mood, the mister/missus just turned me down… again. A positive vote is almost always "Good point!" or "Good Deal!". It's better if the community can have a constructive debate on a subject/deal so that all views are 'voiced' and leave it up to the moderators to weed out those who are just here to troll rather than have negative vote wars. I think the current system is reasonably good and infinitely better than many large commercial forums… 'cough'… (mumbles something about amazon).

    • tyler.durden on 29/12/2012 - 07:54

      "As with any forum if you say something that others don't agree with they have the choice to respond."

      you don't need to give a reason to give a neg vote.
      you can make any comment, word, and then you can neg a deal.

      So your argument has a flaw.

      —
      -negative trolls who don't need to justify their vote.

      How many negative trolls do you reckon there are?
      I don't think it is as great as you think.
      And if a deal is good, it would get more +votes anyways, so even if there was 5 negative votes,what does it matter?

      People can make any comment or type any word, and still make a neg vote
      So people don't need to give any reason.

      • sama on 02/01/2013 - 02:53

        But remember if your reason to neg a deal (I'm talking deals not comments) is bad, your neg can be negged out by the majority of users.

  • tyler.durden on 29/12/2012 - 07:50

    Subscribe is alright but needs few fixing suggestion
    -put subscribe at the top next to the + vote or underneath the title of the thread
    Sometimes there is a long description of the deal and you have to scroll alot to find the subscribe button

    -I don't like that it keeps sending me email.

    -plus voting is easier cause you can just looked at the deals you voted, in your account which is quicker

    -Maybe make a subscribe list in your account view?

    the problem with the negative voting being harder is
    -ppl don't always need to put a reason
    you can just make a comment or any remark and then you can vote negative
    so what's the point?
    Also there are some people that are so FOR a deal (the $1000 chair from the company I forgot) that they neg your comment, even if u don't think it is a good deal, and then for some reason your vote eventually gets taken off.

    And those (pro) people all gang up on anyone who dare to make a neg comment and they neg any negative comment about that deal (e.g is the $1000 chair deal)

    —

    well since this is not considered an issue by people who commented here
    Then I will still plus a vote, not always because I think it is a good deal, but I just want to track it and it is easier to plus then to
    -click subscribe (not always easy to see where it is due to reason stated above)
    -neg voting requires alot more effort.

    • _Bruce_ on 29/12/2012 - 10:14
      +2

      Why are you so keen to track deals that you don't even think are good? Why are you so keen to neg a deal that you don't care enough about to explain why?

      • tyler.durden on 29/12/2012 - 10:48
        -1

        It's not that I don't think they are good deals..
        Some deals are good, so I vote it.

        But some deals are neither good or bad,
        but i still like to track them in case later on I want to go back to that deal to get it..etc..or to see how much that price was selling for that item at the time of the bargain etc..

        But my only option is to +vote that deal, since it is the easiest method..

        ==
        But they need to make subscribe button at the very top or underneath the plus button
        coz the subscribe button right now is hard to find, if the listing description is really long.

        And don't email me on updates to the subscription coz it causes spam.

        ==

        Also with regards to the voting being geared towards positive voting..

        A deal might not be that great, but some users want to track it, or for whatever reason they vote positive for any deals
        so there is still an unfair balance…
        Does that mean the deal was an actual bargain?

  • tyler.durden on 29/12/2012 - 11:00

    And as I said the neg voting is still flawed

    -you can make any comment, even just type any word and then you neg a deal.

    -if you neg a deal, and there are some die hard +ve voters, they will gang up and neg any negative comments, which end up hiding any negative comments, and for some reason ends up revoking the negative vote.

  • Moderatorneil on 29/12/2012 - 11:51

    you don't need to give a reason to give a neg vote.
    you can make any comment, word, and then you can neg a deal.

    This is technically true but if a comment doesn't meet the negative vote guideline, then it may be revoked by a moderator if not by the community.

    -put subscribe at the top next to the + vote or underneath the title of the thread
    Sometimes there is a long description of the deal and you have to scroll alot to find the subscribe button

    Good suggestion. We'll look into that. I would have thought people are used to having the button there similar to Reddit.

    I don't like that it keeps sending me email.

    Maybe make a subscribe list in your account view?

    So you want to track threads but don't want emails notifying you? Instead just a page. Well, the subscriptions page in My Account is probably what you want but as for no email, we'll see what we can do.

    -neg voting requires alot more effort.
    since it is the easiest method..

    The majority of deals don't have a description that requires you to scroll. The subscribe or add to folder should be in the middle of the screen. I can't see that much effort is require to move the mouse. Maybe I'm missing something. Are you using a low resolution monitor or suffering visual disabilities (e.g. screen reader, visual issues)?

    A deal might not be that great, but some users want to track it, or for whatever reason they vote positive for any deals
    so there is still an unfair balance…
    Does that mean the deal was an actual bargain?

    I don't think people vote to track deals. Hitting the vote button doesn't subscribe you to the page so I can't see what benefit it provides in regards to tracking. But making the other links more prominent is a good idea.

    -you can make any comment, even just type any word and then you neg a deal.

    While the system allows you to do this, a moderator will remove invalid negative votes. Sometimes the community beats us to it. Too many revoked votes will mean the user can't negative vote on deals for a certain amount of time. This helps them to get acquainted with what the purpose of a negative vote is.

    • bigpallooka on 29/12/2012 - 16:42

      An excellent and informative reply. I will agree with the OP regarding the negative voting tactics of some fanboys and also point out that in these days of portable devices the OP may be reading on a smart phone or tablet or be like me and prefer very large fonts :) any of which would explain the scrolling issue.
      Regards

    • tyler.durden on 30/12/2012 - 12:13

      Thanks for the reply..

      -Yes, please look into putting the subscribe at the top of the page preferably (underneath the +ve and -ve) icons
      It is a much better layout and provides the same consistency when viewing on other types of devices and makes it easier to find than scrolling..

      Can you make the subscription listing layout look exactly the same or similiar as the comment layout.
      So we can see who was the last person that posted a comment, and also a jump immediately to the last page link/icon. If u click the thread title then it takes you the first page, but u can click a last page icon link which takes you to the last comment made.

      "While the system allows you to do this, a moderator will remove invalid negative votes. Sometimes the community beats us to it. Too many revoked votes will mean the user can't negative vote on deals for a certain amount of time. This helps them to get acquainted with what the purpose of a negative vote is."

      Even though you said mods will look into the neg votes/comments.
      The reality is, it is too much work. A mod is not gonna read through every page of a thread of each negative comments, considering how much bargains gets voted everyday.

      Also with regards to community negging a comment.
      That system is flawed, because in a thread where there is die hard (+ve) voters, they will gang up and "neg any negative comment" which in turns hides the negative comment and ends up revoking the neg vote. (e.g. the $1000 auron chair thread).

      The creates an unfairness for negative voters if the fanboys don't want any negs comments or negatives votes to their beloved deal.

      ===
      Also just wondering will you be adding easier way to add
      -font formatting
      -quoting etc.

      similiar to how phpbb has a gui text editor?

      the markdown etc.. is hard to follow and i prefer an easier gui interface like phpbb etc..

      • tyler.durden on 30/12/2012 - 15:58

        Therefore the whole argument about needing to provide a reason before negging a deal is flawed argument, since you can provide any comment, word and then you can neg vote.

        And the odds that the comment would would checked is low, cos it is too much work for the mod

        • andy19363 on 30/12/2012 - 16:55

          There are a few who plague the mods with inappropriate neg reports…. :-)

          That includes reporting negs given because someone just 'doesn't like' a product, (including $1000 chairs). Negs should not be given unless it's a measurably bad deal. Opinions have no place in the negging system as it impacts on the visibility of the deal, (and of any comments…. including negative ones), bans the user from posting any other deals for a period of time, and affects the reputation of the retailer in question, (whether it was a rep who posted the deal or not).
          I prefer to be able to view all deals and make my own mind up rather than have them taken away by a crowd who don't like a particular product, or don't understand a deal.

          The neg system is not a popularity contest

          so even if there was 5 negative votes,what does it matter?

          It vanishes from most peoples screens…..

        • tyler.durden on 31/12/2012 - 07:24

          if there was 100+ +ve votes
          would 3-5 negs votes vanish it from there screen?

          Does negs over power +ve votes?

          this is still on front page with 10 -ve votes

          http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/89417

          so your statement is not accurate

        • andy19363 on 31/12/2012 - 14:12

          depends on when the negs happen….
          If the 10 negs had happened early on, the deal would likely have had few positives, as most wouldn't have seen it….

      • Moderatorneil on 31/12/2012 - 00:17

        please look into putting the subscribe at the top of the page preferably

        I'll put it up for discussion. I'm not saying that's not the best place but we are always looking to improve the UI, it's just figuring out how.

        Can you make the subscription listing layout look exactly the same or similiar as the comment layout.
        So we can see who was the last person that posted a comment, and also a jump immediately to the last page link/icon. If u click the thread title then it takes you the first page, but u can click a last page icon link which takes you to the last comment made.

        Good idea. Will also put that up for discussion.

        Even though you said mods will look into the neg votes/comments.
        The reality is, it is too much work. A mod is not gonna read through every page of a thread of each negative comments, considering how much bargains gets voted everyday.

        True. We can't be everywhere. I find it quite strange that people write little footnotes to us in deals such as "sorry if this is in the wrong place mods" etc. We definitely don't look at every deal and rely on people using the report button.

        This is the comment attached to your negative vote.

        Your vote is invalid. Saying you don't want spend $900 on a chair but instead on an iPad is not a valid reason. You can say that for any deal. 98 people agreed. I actually think that may be up there in the top 3 comment with most negative votes.

        As per the voting guidelines,

        No Vote
        The deal doesn't apply to you.

        If the deal doesn't apply to you then don't vote. By your reasoning given in the comment, you could negative vote every post you are not interested in. That's simply not how our voting system works.

        Also just wondering will you be adding easier way to add
        -font formatting

        Have a look at the Markdown links below every comment.

        *word* is italic
**word** is bold

        etc.

        -quoting etc.

        Use > to quote

        the markdown etc.. is hard to follow and i prefer an easier gui interface like phpbb etc..

        You mean like buttons that add the code for bold, italic etc.?

        since you can provide any comment, word and then you can neg vote.

        There is no automatation that checks the comment of the negative vote. If you provide an invalid comment for a negative vote then the community or a moderator will revoke it.

        And the odds that the comment would would checked is low, cos it is too much work for the mod

        Yes and No. History tells us that serial invalid negative voters usually get reported and tend to go hand in hand with those who personal attack others, foul language etc. There are always a minority of very angry people on the Internet who think everything sucks. Whether that's a reflection of their real life persona or a way to escape real life is another story. Actually, one of my favourite bloggers in Melbourne is an absolute jerk online but in real life is quite pleasant. Well, anyway I digress.

        There are a few who plague the mods with inappropriate neg reports…. :-)

        ;) I get worried when I don't see your reports.

        Opinions have no place in the negging system as it impacts on the visibility of the deal, (and of any comments…. including negative ones), bans the user from posting any other deals for a period of time, and affects the reputation of the retailer in question, (whether it was a rep who posted the deal or not).

        Yes and No. Well, it's a subject we have discussed over and over again. The users can't agree and us mods can't agree. I've never seen another website use separate pos and neg votes and definitely nothing attached to a comment. We are really in undiscovered space here.

        IMO, I guess there are a few ways to go, beef up the reporting system to interact with the negative vote and educate people in what votes are and what people should be using reports on. Or keep it simple, use the plus and minus like Reddit, no reason needed. I think for that it would be best to have one total number. We've trialed removing the negative vote and that didn't work well at all. Discussions are always good, maybe one day we'll get it right.

        • tyler.durden on 31/12/2012 - 07:34
          +1

          Isn't most what is considered a deal an opinion anyways?
          When someone submit a deal, they are giving an opinion they think is a deal.
          When someone +ve a deal, they are giving their opinion that they think it is a deal.

          E.g.
          -Black mesa is always released as a free game but got massive +ve votes.
          How is something that is always free considered a bargain?
          By that logic, we can post every single free (ios) games.

          -End of the world bunker deal.
          How is that considered a bargain? It was a stupid post that was allowed to stay by mods.

          ==
          Also I think you need to fix the pro supporter of a deal from ganging up on the neg voters.
          There are some die hard voters that will neg any negative comments.

          e.g Die apple supports will +ve any apple deals and don't want to any critical thing said about their products.

          @We've trialed removing the negative vote and that didn't work well at all

          What happened when you trial it?

        • Moderatorneil on 31/12/2012 - 15:21

          Isn't most what is considered a deal an opinion anyways?

          Negative voting isn't an exact science. Describing it as an opinion or fact is a bit of semantics. In cases of deals you are not interested in, I guess pretend there is a +0 button.

          When someone submit a deal, they are giving an opinion they think is a deal.

          An opinion based on facts. If the price isn't cheaper than competitors, then it's generally not a good deal. Again semantics.

          Black mesa is always released as a free game but got massive +ve votes.
          How is something that is always free considered a bargain?
          By that logic, we can post every single free (ios) games.

          I believe you are referring to this deal

          We might have not received any reports. Since it is free software and is always free, it should be in the forums.

          Guidelines and the specific forum where it should be posted to.

          Free Software(Freeware) & Free Websites

          There are so many useful free software programs and websites out there that if we listed every great one, then we would be inundated with deals. Feel free to discuss any of these in one of our forums. Alternatively, add the freeware to its dedicated free software wiki page – Useful Free Software.

          Examples of what you shouldn't post:

          Software: Mozilla Firefox (Free Browser, Always Free)
          Websites: Google (Free Search Engine, Always Free)

          Examples of what you should post:

          Software: DVB Web Scheduler Pro is now free (Normally you have to pay for it, now free)
          Websites: Used Car Ads Free on Carbuddy.com.au (Free for now but later on not free)

          That has now been moved. Thanks.

          -End of the world bunker deal.
          How is that considered a bargain? It was a stupid post that was allowed to stay by mods.

          I believe you are referring to this deal.

          You are correct. We move all joke posts to the forums. In this case, Scott made the decision to keep it as a deal. You'll have to ask him why as I don't know.

          Also I think you need to fix the pro supporter of a deal from ganging up on the neg voters.
          There are some die hard voters that will neg any negative comments.

          e.g Die apple supports will +ve any apple deals and don't want to any critical thing said about their products.

          What's your suggestion?

          What happened when you trial it?

          It was a couple of years ago. See this post

          Trialed for a couple weeks and based on community feedback was brought back. It's a long read but you can see all the feedback.

          The whole argument that you need to provide a reason before you neg vote is flawed
          because you can make any comment, word, single letter and then neg it.

          And then it will be revoked and you won't be able to neg for a certain amount of time. It's an after the fact, system.

          Can you address some of the other questions in my post above?

        • andy19363 on 31/12/2012 - 16:26

          Trialed for a couple weeks and based on community feedback was brought back.

          From what I recall…. people were still able to vote negative…..
          The votes were just hidden from view…. which is not the same as removing the vote.

          Clearly this issue has been running for a number of years, and does not seem to have improved at all.
          I'd go as far as to say the neg vote these days is even less useful than it was in 2010.
          Perhaps it's time to get back to basics about what the neg is actually meant to do…. which is really only a couple of things….

          1. Highlight that a product can be found cheaper elsewhere
          2. Highlight when there might be specific issues with a product or retailer
            Both of which are highly useful, both of which disappear with a heavily negged post.

          Much of the negging these days is either stuff that should be reported, (http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/89313#comment-1175993), or simply opinion, (http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/89514#comment-1180209)

          Perhaps a different way of looking at things would be 'alert' posts, which would be used to notify of price/retailer problems with a deal. Pos votes remain…. lot of pos = good deals, no pos = poor deals…. with alerts to indicate why. Posts could be made as an alert, or reported and mod promoted to an alert? These could be highlighted within the main text or have a star next to them or something.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2013 - 07:51

          e.g Die apple supports will +ve any apple deals and don't want to any critical thing said about their products.

          Exactly, and then the Android lovers do the same thing. And then we get the mob vote.

          But we also have two issues here.

          1. The primary voting system (on Deals)
          2. The secondary voting system (on comments)

          Which comes down to each being used differently and moderated differently which gets confusing to most here as most dont read the rules until they come foul of them (if they even do that)

          As you say below about no need to justify your negative being a better option.

          This conflicts with your point about the apple fans negging criticism of their product. Without a comment we have no idea of why they are voting, so how can we adjudicate in issues like you raise.

          Neg voting of comments is far less an issue than neg voting on a deal.

          Now 10 positive votes for an Apple deal, which maybe you dont like. Dont have to be explained. But it's a deal about Apple which you dont have.

          10 Negative votes on an Android deal, not explained, by Apple fans who dont like Android, isnt very helpful.

          And this is exactly why the explain the negative vote came into being. With a lot of checking by mods into users past history of posting/voting we saw a lot of fanboys** for each product down voting the other product related posts.

          Now if you have a solution for this that could work, let us know.

          **Fanboys of other types of product deals were also an issue. Plus the rampant I hate Dick/DX/Woolies/Coles/Vodafone/Kogan and so on.

  • tyler.durden on 31/12/2012 - 11:31

    So as I said

    The whole argument that you need to provide a reason before you neg vote is flawed
    because you can make any comment, word, single letter and then neg it.

    • chansthename on 01/01/2013 - 11:19

      You can but that comment is going to be massively negged as well as (I'm assuming) reported. It'll be removed by a mod as per community guidelines anyway.

      TL;DR Yes it is possible but it's not going to stick around.

      • tyler.durden on 01/01/2013 - 13:59

        In theory, your comment seem good
        "going to be massively negged as well as (I'm assuming) reported"

        In practice, not gonna happen too often, unless the comment was offensive or inappropriate.

        Just look through the last few 30 deals

        See how many negs were legit, had a valid reason, based on facts or reported.

        Negging something or voting positive for something is an opinion.
        People often make judgement calls based on their opinions rather than fact.

        And as i said, unless the comment was offensive or inappropriate, or really irk alot of ppl, the odds are it wouldn't be reported.

        Forcing people to provide a reason before negging is pointless.

        The whole argument is flawed, cos the negging system + commenting is flawed (due to the commenting can be anything, any words.

        ==
        Commenting after negging should be optional, like positive vote is not required to comment.

        If someone wants to further clarify why they neg then can do so.
        Just as comment after a positive vote, or being neutral and commenting is optional.

        You also need to remember, nowadays people use phones, tablets to browse this site, which are not ideal devices for typing.

        • andy19363 on 01/01/2013 - 16:00

          Commenting after negging should be optional, like positive vote is not required to comment.

          If that becomes the case, then the automatic removal of overly negged posts should cease, as it will become too easy for posts to become invisible…. (Think heavy negging by apple/android fans, retail competitors, etc etc)

        • Moderatorscotty on 01/01/2013 - 21:38

          In practice, not gonna happen too often, unless the comment was offensive or inappropriate.

          Never underestimate how obsessed andy19363 is with invalid negative votes :) Moderators do work through those reports and action on the obvious ones.

          @andy19363 — flame wars are going to happen regardless whether a vote is attached to the comment or not. Again, report them if you think they are inappropriate.

        • retiredfeline on 01/01/2013 - 21:44

          Commenting after negging should be optional

          Sorry, I disagree with you (but I'm not going to neg your comment) and side with the majority, but I'm not going to explain my choice. :P

        • andy19363 on 01/01/2013 - 21:48

          flame wars are going to happen regardless whether a vote is attached to the comment or not.

          It's not so much about flame wars….. I have little interest in the petty bickerings.
          My reply was to Tyler's post, and my point was that if the need for comments to neg vote is removed, then the automatic removal of deals should cease….. as it could be misused, as I intimated previously. This is one of the reasons that the comments were instituted in the first place.

          Never underestimate how obsessed andy19363 is with invalid negative votes

          It's good to have a hobby :)

  • scrimshaw on 31/12/2012 - 15:32

    nvm

  • PresidentClinton on 01/01/2013 - 17:53
    +1

    Comes with Australian culture. Positivism trumps negativity always. Has its pros and cons i guess.

  • RainbowHands on 01/01/2013 - 23:28

    if you want to be negative go vent your frustration on someTHING else NOT someONE else

    then at least your negativity doesnt circulate around the world from person to person.

    negativity crushes the world, positivity boosts it up.

  • tyler.durden on 03/01/2013 - 07:56
    -2

    Mods, Web Site Administrator, you need to remember, nowadays people are browsing this site with their phones and tablets which are not good for typing on.

    Please remove force commenting after a neg, since the current system is flawed anyway.

    • _Bruce_ on 03/01/2013 - 09:33

      Do you think that if you just repeat the same thing over many times with more bold that everyone will suddenly agree with you? With all that typing you could have been giving lots of reasons to neg all the deals that is so important to you.

      • tyler.durden on 03/01/2013 - 12:25

        I am actually typing this on my pc.

        If I was using my tablet or phone, I wouldn't bother negging because of force commenting.

    • retiredfeline on 03/01/2013 - 09:40

      I think that various buttons should be spaced further apart but the commenting requirement for a neg is correct. I have no problem Swyping comments in and have even posted a deal or two in a pinch. Deal with it.

    • Moderatorscotty on 03/01/2013 - 10:02

      Please remove force commenting after a neg, since the current system is flawed anyway.

      Since the system is flawed so we should go backwards? I don't believe that there's flawless system anyway so all platforms should go back to their barbaric state?

      Anyway. It's not that we are not willing to change things. I have met with the rest of the team yesterday and spent 2 hours just to discuss the possible designs of negative voting. We have looked at other implementations (pre-v4 Digg, Reddit, Hacker News, HotUKDeals) and compare them with what we currently have to see whether we can incorporate some of their features (and short comings). Sorry to say that we haven't found a solution that would satisfy everyone.

      • tyler.durden on 03/01/2013 - 12:23
        -2

        Removing force negging is not going backwards. It's getting with the times.
        As I said before people are surfing this site on mobile devices more and more now.

        If I was to surf on my tablet or mobile phone, I wouldn't bother negging since it is too much work to type it on a small phone or tablet with one hand.

        Why not trial it again for 6 months.

        It's not gonna be as bad as you think it will be.

        Implementation of force comment after negging was to design to prevent neg trolls?
        How many neg trolls do you reckon there exists?

        If someone has a reason for negging about a deal then they would post a reason for their neg.

        The current system is favouring positive vote which in itself has it's own problem.

        e.g
        People have been positive vote pricematch deal that couldn't be easily gotten the deal anyways etc. in many threads.

        http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/89417
        http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/89698?page=1

        End of the world Bunker deal

        Free games that will always be free.

        ==

        What about if someone clicks on the neg, they get shown a small box for the them to type in a reason.
        But whether they type in the reason is optional.
        They can click submit (without commenting)

        ==
        Can you also add in a GUI editor for the comment box, so we can do easy font formatting and quoting.

        • Moderatorscotty on 03/01/2013 - 14:56

          In OzBargain's term, these are going backwards.

          There other changes along the way (revocation rules for example) and more changes are planned.

          GUI editor for the comment box

          Probably won't be a full blown WYSIWYG editor, but we do plan to have better Markdown doco + a few buttons for bold/italic/lists for those who can't be bothered to read the manual.

        • tyler.durden on 03/01/2013 - 16:18

          Why not migrate to phpbb.

          It has so much more better features than whatever it is your using.

          I am not a fan of reading the Markdown doco.

          It would easier and intuitive to just to have a few GUI buttons, for font formatting and quoting.

          Or release a grease monkey script that gives us a few GUI font formatting and block quote quoting features

          ==
          After reading your links I can see how the neg vote came to bring..and can understand it more now.

          I have a suggestion..

          Why not make it so that instead of comment first before we can neg vote,

          we can also click neg vote button first, but it would show a scroll list of common neg reasons/options e.g.(pricematch,Cheaper elsewhere, item description not correct etc)

          OR we can provide a specific comment/reason instead.

          So you have 3 choices you can do after negging.
          -select a reason from scroll list
          -comment only
          -comment + reason from scroll list.

          If you don't choose any reason or at least provide a comment, then your neg won't be counted.

          That would make it is easier for phone and tablet users, since we only have one hand to type, it would be easier to select a scroll list instead.

        • Moderatorscotty on 03/01/2013 - 16:34

          Why not migrate to phpbb…

          Ha. I'll stop the feeding here.

        • tyler.durden on 03/01/2013 - 16:55

          what about my suggestion of showing dropdown/scroll list of common neg reasons when you click the neg button

          this would make it easier to neg vote on an tablet/phone and still give a reason for neg vote.

          With tablets and phones, often times we are only able to use one hand to type or click things.

          Typing on these things are a pain in the butt, and is even more difficult when we only have one hand to use it.
          And on devices such as ipads, they got no swype, and the autocorrect is shit.

          Having a scroll list of common neg reasons before clicking submit button to neg, would make it easier.

          Please have a discussion with your other mods about improving the experience for phone and tablet users.
          This will only get more important since people are moving towards mobile devices more and using their pc less.

        • tikei on 05/01/2013 - 23:26

          we can also click neg vote button first, but it would show a scroll list of common neg reasons/options e.g.(pricematch,Cheaper elsewhere, item description not correct etc)

          It sounds good in theory; but without giving specific details of where you can get it cheaper/ which part of the description is wrong, people wouldn't know if it's a fact and would assume it's a trolling neg. More details are needed to distinguish a genuine neg from opinionated negs.

  • lovepeoplenotmoney on 30/08/2016 - 18:37

    Both positive and negative votes to a bargain should give a reason as eligibility requirement. When the reasons are the same the comment stating the reason should have increased up-votes.

    Both up- and down-votes should also have comment eligibility requirements to have merit as the basis of reasoning.

    Both the primary offer and subsequent commentary voting will improve the accuracy and validity, and discourage fudging and sock-puppeting. The principle has the basis that number is insufficient reason or evidence for validity because reason is the causality for validity.

    • bigpallooka on 31/08/2016 - 00:36

      I really feel like you (and others in the historical commenting) are over-thinking the voting system. Without every member undertaking an IQ test, I psychological profile, a fanboy test and a 'give-a-rats-arse' test then having the test results publicly posted the system will be flawed or at least give results differing to individual expectations. Posting a deal means the op believes it to be one…not that it will be one in every members opinion. It only matters if the price/seller/product combination are what the OP believes are a BARGAIN. THIS IS NOT Choice magazine combined with StaticIce. It's a members forum.

      A simplified understanding of the value of the voting system:

      A POSITIVE VOTE = 'I like the looks of that'. 'Great, I wanted one of those and someone has found a good price for me', 'I haven't spent money online in hours and am having withdrawals…thanks OP!', 'I didn't know I needed that…' and occasionally 'I have been looking everywhere for this and couldn't find it' NO EXPLANATION NEEDED…you have seen it now do your own research if you think you can do better…then come back and tell everyone.

      A NEGATIVE VOTE = This supplier/product/price is in my opinion or by historical consensus NOT A DEAL… please prove it or explain why your negative vote is valid.

      People are here looking for deals… if the deals disappear because of opinions rather than for a factual or at least definable reason then the site doesn't function. Some members seem to be offended by deals and comments that don't align with their 'world view' which I believe is irrelevant to the purpose of the site. Take from it what you like and if you want to contribute put forward deals, votes (supported with details) or experience that might help others make informed decisions.

      The fact that a deal receives positive votes in no way indicates that the voters are all knowledgeable just that it SEEMS like a bargain to those members. The negative votes and comments are there to invalidate/validate the value of the post. Where exactly is the issue in that (assuming you can acknowledge that it can't be a perfect system due to the varied ideals of the membership)?

      On the other hand, What do I know?

      • lovepeoplenotmoney on 31/08/2016 - 03:03

        Whim is insufficient to reason validity, same as a number, you can't judge a fighter by their record.

  • AMLagonda on 12/09/2016 - 11:32

    If you can't give a negative vote out freely because the item is not a bargain but can give a positive vote out for no reason at all then the system is flawed or the moderators don't want neg votes at all.

    Why don't they just remove the neg vote all together?

  • EyesWideOpen on 27/09/2016 - 16:15

    Please pardon me, OT a little. How does the comment voting works? My phone is not very responsive sometimes and hit a wrong vote, pos instead of neg or vice versa. It can't be removed? Then it appeared both pos and neg? confused

    I do agree to giving Pos to threads where warranted and don't vote if it's not the best deal around. That leaves weight for Negs to be used on really bad deals or traders. There are more suited websites for negative shopping complaints, can only think of one now, like NotGoodEnough or productreview. There's more out there I think.

    • Moderatorneil on 27/09/2016 - 16:38

      How does the comment voting works? My phone is not very responsive sometimes and hit a wrong vote, pos instead of neg or vice versa. It can't be removed? Then it appeared both pos and neg? confused

      Just hit the votes link, then revoke. You'll only be able to vote once (e.g. can't vote pos, revoke, then neg and vice versa). Or just hit the report link on the comment and a mod can fix it up.

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