Outlander PHEV Exceed Tourer or MB EQB250+?

LFlutterby on 14/01/2025 - 23:37
Last edited 15/01/2025 - 09:59

Both are 5+2 and are smaller compared to the Kia EV9. Cost $77k and $95k DA respectively in NSW and eligible for FBT exemption.

Pros of the Mitsubishi - no range anxiety and the cons being no doubt, a rather complex set up, having a very low resolution information display, 3rd seats can't fold in 50/50, and seats are not ventilated.

EQB - EV range being app 400km real world range. Before anyone tells you to plan life around charging. Recently went on a trip with a friend that drives an EV and almost unfriend him on FB after the trip for planning their trip around charging stations (pit stop, accommodation, route, destination).

I guess the 3rd option is to wait for the BYD Tang.

Thoughts?

Automotive Electric Vehicle Mercedes-Benz Mitsubishi

Comments

  • MS Paint on 14/01/2025 - 23:41
    +19

    I've never heard of anyone cross shopping Mitsubishi and Mercedes.

    TIL.

    • Flutterby on 14/01/2025 - 23:43

      Why is that? Would be a daily runner. Both are 5+2, have all the options. NX450h+ is on the card too if it's a 5+2.

      • MS Paint on 14/01/2025 - 23:47
        +6

        No reason. I've just never heard of or spoken to anyone that has cross shopped those two marques.

        Typically it would be MB cross shopped with BMW or AUDI. Mitsubishi is normally cross shopped with Toyota or Mazda.

        • Flutterby on 14/01/2025 - 23:49
          -4

          I am generally open with badges. Ultimately Lexus is a Toyota and Audi is a VW.

          Fine, VW Group cars are something that I wouldn't touch with the exception of a 911.

          Even less of a concern as this is the family bus in addition to others at home.

          • boomramada on 15/01/2025 - 01:03

            @Flutterby: Strange flex but have you test drive either ?

            • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 01:06
              -4

              @boomramada: Sat in them at the dealership, but too lazy to go test driving.

              It's a heavy SUV, so not expecting much. Both are rather slow too with turning circle of a boat.

              Ultimately, purpose is a daily runner. Kids will make the rear dirty and food everywhere. Not a car that would get polished every few months.

              • boomramada on 15/01/2025 - 01:15
                +8

                @Flutterby: Now I'm too lazy to read the rest of the thread, sounds like a spam.

                • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 10:03
                  -2

                  @boomramada: Need to fill in the spot when both Coles and WW are not doing half price "sale" on spam.

        • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 18:52

          Mate. I see what you mean now. From the negative votes, looks like a few souls were hurt by categorising MB/BMW to Toyota/Mitsubishi and the like.

    • HeWhoKnows on 15/01/2025 - 07:33
      -2

      True

      But sounds like OP has got their head around this.. I always say

      "Your choice.
      You will be driving the car and paying for the service and maintenance.
      You know the reasons why you want to buy either of these."

      But then 3rd choice is a Chinese EV.

      Now thats really cross shopping across to board

      • djones145 on 15/01/2025 - 07:44
        +1

        4th choice is Sydney trains. u offer them 32 percent increase over 4 years and 24/7 trains and its a done deal
        that's a nice 5k +2k seater

        • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 08:56

          Yes. Public transport is the preferred option on non school drop off days. The new car will be sitting there most of the time.

          Crazy to read this morning on what the union is proposing/doing.

      • Ade99 on 15/01/2025 - 08:28

        I would consider which one has cliff edge depreciation vs extreme cliff edge depreciation…🤔

        • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 08:58

          Well. Crystal ball? Given that it is a depreciation asset, not sure why it should matter.

          Don't think anyone buys a fridge and wondering what its deprecation would be.

          • pharkurnell on 15/01/2025 - 09:59

            @Flutterby: A fridge isnt 90,000

            • MS Paint on 15/01/2025 - 10:34

              @pharkurnell: A separate Subzero/wolf fridge freezer doesn't leave much change from $90k. Just sayin'.

              • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 10:46

                @MS Paint: Happy with the Thai made Mitsubishi Electric. A fraction of $90k.

  • changyang1230 on 14/01/2025 - 23:45

    Not entirely sure why you left the EQB in your headline when you have already ruled it out.

    Yes at this point people still kind of need to plan their road trip a bit around the charging logistics, which I personally don’t mind but you have found disagreeable.

    Depending on what other pros you find with pure BEV, and contrast that to this drawback, that would help you decide whether to consider one at all.

    • Flutterby on 14/01/2025 - 23:47

      All being equal it really comes down to EV+ICE complexity in one, vs the alack of range. A dilemma that solid state and progressive roll out of charging infrastructure can resolve. Just not today.

      I guess postpone the purchase is an option, thought for how long is the million dollar question.

      • changyang1230 on 14/01/2025 - 23:56
        +3

        While im a big proponent of EV, I think it will probably be at least 10 years before you can literally not think about where to stay and where to stop, if that.

        This will only really be a case where every airbnb, every motel etc have plentiful of wall connectors that allow you to charge to full overnight. At this point I still look for airbnb that i know i can plug in; hotel with a wall connector or type 2 charger; or an accomodation right next to a fast DC charger.

        Similarly the “where to stop” will probably only become non-issue if every current servo and roadhouse has a reliable fast charger.

        So it’s up to you whether you want to wait that long I guess. For me the day to day convenience and advantage of BEV far outweighs these once-a-year inconvenience out in the country so I am perfectly happy with this inconvenience. You may have different considerations.

        Also these days quite often the fast chargers are right next to your travel destinations so this also helps reduce the “unnecessary stop” somewhat.

        • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 00:05

          I am with you. I do think BEV is superior in many aspects, especially as a daily runner.

          With kids, it really limits when we can go on those trips. Which is also when it's the most annoying time to queue up.

          The EQB was the preference until the recent trip. An experience that is rather memorable. Now, it's a 50/50.

          • Euphemistic on 15/01/2025 - 06:38

            @Flutterby: Your experience with the recent rrip is clouded by your friend dictating the stops that distrupted your travel. If you are in an EV, it becomes your decision and less disrptibe to YOUR trip. If your friend also has an EV, youll likely both want to stop at similar times so its less of an issue - or maybe youll decide to make different trips while infrastructure improves.

            • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 09:14

              @Euphemistic: Bit old school. Probably the car after and onward will be BEV.

              The question then is whether to get rid of all the ICE toys. (Or they will no longer be relevant).

              • Euphemistic on 15/01/2025 - 09:34

                @Flutterby: Why not jump in now then? If your buying an outlander its hardly a petrol head vehicle. Better off with the extra performance of an EV.

                Im with you on ICE toys. I like older cars. The noises, the smells the nostalgia, but i wouldnt buy one as a daily driver amd i do t see the point of buying a new ICE vehicle when there is a viable option for EV.yes, i recently bought a new ICE, but EVs arent there for towing or off road use yet.

                • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 09:38

                  @Euphemistic: Would like something that fits 7 for odd occasions and the PHEV incentive is attractive, and runs out soon.

                  Didnt give it much of a thought until receiving 2 sales calls on the PHEV in one day. The conclusion 6 months ago was that PHEV stock is limited and the same argument of BEV vs PHEV. Put it to rest as couldn't find a PHEV ready for pick up.

      • freefall101 on 15/01/2025 - 10:14

        You mention above it'd be a daily runner, all you need to be able to do is charge at home.

        Personally I charge my EV outside of home maybe once every 6 months, if I have a really long trip I'd just rent a car or fly.

  • Euphemistic on 14/01/2025 - 23:53

    The silly ahort range of the PHEV in EV mods will probably annoy you more than planning a long trip with charge stops. With 400km range, you probably wont have to charge every single night like you will with the PHEV. Youll get jack of having to charge all the time and end up with an extra heavy hybrid which means more petrol station stops.

    Just go full EV. Charging options are improving. You won't have to wait at a servo every time in the future, you'll be able to stop somewhere nice to stop much of the time instead.

    • Flutterby on 14/01/2025 - 23:59

      Yes, all options in the market at this juncture have their pros and cons. Not making things easy.

      Ideally to postpone. Well, until a few calls from Mitsubishi sales with ready to pick up stock before FBT exemption for PHEV. Triggered the though lt process.

      The EQB is a solid alternative option, given that they have reduced the price to below LCT threshold.

      NX450h+ order book is open again with 2 ready to pick up and can be discounted to under LCT threshold. Being a Toyota, I would not be too worried with a mix of BEB + ICE as Toyota is proven to be reliable (speaking from an ownership point of view). Wish someone can add the 3rd seats magically.

  • changyang1230 on 15/01/2025 - 00:10

    The other thing is, while I have never driven the EQB, I am not 100% 400km is the actual real world range for highway driving (that’s what matters most for road trip of course).

    Judging from its 70kWh battery, as well as EV database (which I find pretty close to my own cars), depending on weather you are probably closer to 300-350km highway.

    https://ev-database.org/car/1664/Mercedes-Benz-EQB-250

    My air variant EV9 is 76kwh and on highway I get roughly 330km, for reference. Therefore these days I still take my long range Tesla (470km highway range) for road trip despite it being smaller size and less ideal with all the luggages.

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 00:33

      The EQB250+ is lab rated to 560km. Guessing it will hit 400km real world.

      I think you have given me the answer. 300km highway range can barely make it up to newcastle and return.

      • changyang1230 on 15/01/2025 - 01:05
        +2

        I have just gone to their website and amazingly they actually have a "range simulator" if you scroll down a bit.

        https://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/passengercars/models/suv/eq…

        If you change it to 100% motorway, and leave the 20 degree celsius and air conditioning on, it shows 321km which was very similar to what I guessed earlier.

        • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 01:08

          Amazes me how sensitive BEV is to speed of travel compared to ICE. Sweet spot for ICE is 80-120km/hr.

          Toyed around with the simulator. Aircond on and 30 degree Celsius day aren't very forgiving.

          Okay, EQB is a no go.

          Question now is to whether wait for the new outlander or current pre-face lift.

          • changyang1230 on 15/01/2025 - 01:21

            @Flutterby: Yeah it's one of those things about EV - high speed air resistance has a lot more significant impact.

            I have once read that there's probably similar impact where 80km/h would still give you a lot more range than 110km/h on ICE vehicles, though most people wouldn't have done 80km/h for hundreds of kms to discover that.

          • Euphemistic on 15/01/2025 - 06:41
            +2

            @Flutterby: The fact that we think ICE is sfficient at highway speeds really highlights how abysmal their efficiencg in urban traffic is. ICE stillmhas thebsame aereo disadvantage over 100 as an EV, just when in traffic all the stop start is horrible for consumption. .

            • Murkymerv on 15/01/2025 - 08:12

              @Euphemistic: Can you translate that to english?

            • Ade99 on 15/01/2025 - 08:35

              @Euphemistic: Google translate was stumped by this one…..however EV's running on a motorway have the issue that they never recharge their batteries through braking and running with lights, air con etc hits range. ICEs on the other hand travelling at constant speed with no braking or accelerating are very economic

              • Euphemistic on 15/01/2025 - 08:57

                @Ade99: Its a bit hard to explain. We are so used to ICE using less fuel at 100km/h than in traffic that its hard to comprehend why an EV appears to use more at highways speeds. An ICE is most efficient between 60-80km/h (less aero drag), but we travel at 100+ on the highway, or do lots of stopping and starting in the urban environment, so we dont 'see' the aero drag as an issue. Its just a perception that needs altering for EV use.

                Ask any caravanner why they travel at 90 and not 100 on the highway. Its because you use a significant amount less fuel.

                Additionally, we are also used to using a bit more fuel in summer because the AC is required for cooling the car. It uses engine power to run AC for cooling. In winter the waste heat from the engine is used for warmth which doesnt cost extra fuel. Modern ICE is less impacted by AC, but I have driven cars with relatively small engines where you can feel the power drag when the AC kicks in. Unlike an EV that needs battery power to heat because there is far less waste heat in an EV.

                Its just changing our ingrained expectations of car fuel use to how EVs work.

                • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 09:25

                  @Euphemistic: At cruising speed sub 80 km, the old school big engines are surprisingly efficient. We have managed below consumptions per 100km:
                  - GS350 7.5l
                  - ISF 10L
                  - MX5 6L
                  - Evo X 10L (odd one out, very short gear ratio)
                  - ZRV eHEV 5L
                  - Boxster (718 2.0T povo pack) 7L
                  - Q7 2011 3L diesel that no longer owns 11L full load.

                  • Euphemistic on 15/01/2025 - 09:31
                    +1

                    @Flutterby: Thats what im alluding to, below 80, there is far less aero drag. Still, the outright energy efficency of a ICE is under 30% while energy efficiency of an EV is over 80%

                    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 09:34

                      @Euphemistic: Yes, that is an academic way to look at it, percentage of efficiency. Even F1 cars are merely hitting over 50%. BEV has the benefit of not needing to convert from whatever source into electricity and hence a very high efficiency.

                      As a consumer, the practical things like range etc will matter more than an academic view.

  • Drakesy on 15/01/2025 - 00:28

    C) Haval H6 GT PHEV (if you don't need the 7 seats)

    That thing is underrated.

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 00:30

      5+2 is a criteria as a proper 7 seater is usually too big for Sydney car parks.

      Same reason that the NX450h+ has been ruled out.

      The BYD sealion is quite underrated for straight line on such a heavy car too. Doesn't go well around corners tho.

  • brendanm on 15/01/2025 - 07:51
    +2

    almost unfriend him on FB after the trip

    Woah, let's not get too hasty

  • Sunshines bright on 15/01/2025 - 07:52
    +2

    We own a outlander phev, for the past few years. I am not into all the acronyms posted in here but will tell my experience. On pure electric with aircon blasting we get only about 30k before we have to change over to hybrid or recharge. But it is handy having both options to use for distance charging. Though there is the option to run pure petrol too, I never use that option. Can’t say what our mileage is using hybrid as it is to confusing for me. The 2 benefits for us is we can use our standard electricity's plug in and our solar to recharge the battery. And we seldom travel more then 30km away from home.

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 10:22

      Thanks, and agree.

      The pattern for the car is either within 30kms for a return trip or anything is 200-400km one way long drive, hence the PHEV is rather appealing.

      We were in Dungog a couple of months back (220km from Sydney). The place where we stayed in seems to be off grid and petrol station is rare (early in the week, the town goes to sleep). Its a town that the local RSL looks like its stuck in the 60s, and even if we see a horse carriage wouldn't surprise me. (okay, bit exaggerated, but this is what a country town in AU looks like).

      • deeevan on 15/01/2025 - 14:57

        That roughly matches our usage pattern. No one drives to work so the car usually sits at home charging via solar if needed after a short trip to the shops.Paired with several long distance trips a year. The petrol engine driving is mostly on the freeway when it is most efficient.

  • 0 0 0 on 15/01/2025 - 08:01

    Are you leasing? Service costs for luxury Euro cars is shit. Outrageously expensive for no good reason other than to rip you off. Even VW servicing costs are high. If money isn't an issue them sure go for them.

    Kia Sorento has a PhEV don't they? Maybe worth a look.

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 09:57

      "Leasing" yes, not via NL provider. Cost of servicing is a consideration, but not a major concern.

      Sorento was briefly looked at 6 months ago. The problem is that 1) Kia had no stock nor information on what will come and seems like they are not too committed on PHEV. 2) The pre-face lift uses a DSG and it is a no go as reliability to function as the family bus is somewhat important.

      The current car park feels abit like smart phone transition with Nokia, Blackberry, HTC, Apple, Sony and many other brands all try to do the same thing, but not a single manufacturer that has "the product" due to technology and infrastructure constrain.

      • 0 0 0 on 15/01/2025 - 10:28

        From my experience servicing a Mercedes M class costed me around $1200-1600 for a fairly basic service. Oil and filter change. Servicing my old petrol Outlander at Mitsubishi was about $360 for basically the same service.

        Servicing my Audi A1 was a similar cash grab and even at an independent VW servicing centre they wanted $800 for a 4th year service which seemed absurb to me.
        In the end I changed oil and oil filter, air filter, cabin filter myself and saved a bunch.
        Now unless I win the lotto, I'll never buy another luxury car again even if the upfront cost seems attractive or within arm's reach of a Korean or Japanese car.

  • jaybraykay on 15/01/2025 - 08:32
    +1

    I have a 2024 outlander phev - its great, no complaints from me or my wife.

    But your comparison probably depends on what your actually trying to get out of the car, and your driving habits.
    If your regularly driving long distances the PHEV benefit is somewhat negated, but if you are more using it as an around the town car and have somewhere to charge it, you can basically eliminate petrol usage.
    If your after a luxury car however - then its really no comparison to the EQB.

    As always - go look at and drive the car - will probably answer your questions. If you havent tried to sit in the back of a 5+2 setup, its worth understanding the space tradeoff vs a true 7 seater.

    And just in case you didn't know - clock is very quickly running out on PHEV being in the FBT - you need to have the car by April 1st this year or its not FBT exempt:
    https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-a…

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 10:39

      Not driven one, nor care how it drives. No SUV will be remotely comparable to the weekend fun cars at home, and I am not illusional that a SUV is "fun".

      Yes. aware of the FBT thing and got triggered by a few calls from sales ppl this week. Sitting out the next few months when it expires will take my mind out of the thought process as PHEV is less relevant.

      EQB is not luxury by any stretch, the whole MB badge = luxury perception is beyond me. In fact, the outlander Exceed's front seat is far more comfortable. Explains the first reply on this post finding it odd to cross shop between MB, Mitsub and a Chinese SUV. The overall thought process is that 1. must haves (5+2), 2. Must not haves (DSG, perception of reliabiltiy), and 3. minor issues (ventilated seats etc), a rather binary process of elimination.

      Well aware of the trade off as the 3rd row is reserved for odd occasions. Nor keep on a proper 7 seater, they are gigantic and not suitable for Sydney. Even the Outlander is pushing it.

    • LanceVance on 15/01/2025 - 11:21

      Considering your typical use (whether you plug in at night or not) how are your long term consumption figures?

      • jaybraykay on 15/01/2025 - 11:25

        We almost exclusively plug in at home every night (or during the day for solar).
        Long term usage is 0.6L/100k (The petrol engine kicks in when my wife plants her foot haha) and around 22.5 KWH/100k. Thats around town, mostly on 80k roads with minimal traffic.

        We have only done one large trip, and the average usage was around 7.6l/100k.

        I think our "EV Time" percentage is somewhere around 95%.

        • LanceVance on 15/01/2025 - 13:34

          Nice! And home charging is pretty cheap if not free? Thinking about getting a PHEV myself, but then again a regular hybrid is so good itself that I'm juggling whether a PHEV really makes a huge difference.

          • jaybraykay on 15/01/2025 - 15:02

            @LanceVance: We just use the provided "normal wall outlet" charger - so we just pay normal electricity prices.
            Our electricity provider doesn't have any kind of "special" plan that gives us free charging - but if we charge when we have excess solar it works out quite cheap. If we end up just paying normal prices for electricity, its still cheap, but less of a saving.

            From what i've read from a strictly financial perspective - your really only going to offset the extra capital cost if you can put it on a novated lease and get the FBT exemption. It takes a lot of fuel saving to add up to the cost of a new car.

            • LanceVance on 15/01/2025 - 15:24

              @jaybraykay: Yeah aware PHEV's don't make much financial sense without the FBT savings. Would only be through a novated lease. Any idea what a full charge runs you with normal electricity pricing? Otherwise they sound like pretty good cars overall.

              • jaybraykay on 15/01/2025 - 15:31

                @LanceVance: Its a 20KWh battery - so you can do the maths based on what you pay for electricity.

                For us its around 23c from the grid - which means its roughly $5.40 / 100k
                Petrol at around ~$1.90 = ~$13 / 100k

  • pegaxs on 15/01/2025 - 09:25
    +2

    Almost unfriended someone on Facebook… Christ, you sound insufferable…

    Why even have an EV as an option on that list then if charging is going to cause you to “unfriendly people on Facebook”.

    BYD Sealion is PHEV, has a higher resolution and larger screen and is cheaper than the Outlander. cancel that, I thought the 6 referred to the seating capacity… turns out they just added a number to it.

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 09:32

      Haha. Yes, sad to unfriend someone on FB because of that. Partly true, but mostly intended as a joke.

      Not sure if it is categorised as insufferable. I guess time value of money and first time experiencing the whole thing about "planning" the trip on charging. Taking leave is not easy and taking leave during those period is even harder as half of Australia are also taking a break. All personal circumstances are different. A typical day for me is 630am awake and bed time around midnight for work (a relatively demanding job, family and study) - yes, an excuse, I know.

      BYD Sealion is not a 5+2. Though, the Tang that is yet to come (will it ever?) makes an interesting proposition. Not sure how they hold up on freeway driving in terms of range.

  • djkelly69 on 15/01/2025 - 09:59

    Not sure what the actual distinction is between 5+2 and 7 seaters, but Sorento PHEV dimensions seem pretty similar to the Outlander.

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 10:12

      Not idea too. Having looked at various 5+2 and 7 seaters, it appears that 7 seaters you get:
      1. more toe room
      2. more shoulder room
      3. some has proper childseat anchors on the 3rd row
      In summary, ones calling it a 7 seater is bigger (inside and the outside)

  • LanceVance on 15/01/2025 - 11:24

    Get the Mitsubishi, as someone with long term experience with German cars you get a higher price, similar or lower quality, less reliability and lower resale value compared to Japanese cars.
    Also the gulf between German cars and everything else that was present in the 90's/20's just isn't there any more. I see others have suggested the Sorrento PHEV, don't know much about it but I was very impressed with how a regular Sorrento drove.

  • Sensiekatie on 15/01/2025 - 16:24

    OP you said the Exceed Tourer 3rd row is not ventilated. Are you sure? We have just purchased and awaiting delivery of the Exceed and the 3rd row has Climate Control but the controls are in the 2nd row. That was the difference between the Aspire and the Exceed, amongst others of course. So I am pretty sure the next model up will also include this.

    • Flutterby on 15/01/2025 - 18:49

      Ventilated. As in the seat with air blowing out of them.

      Different to climate control.

  • srsparky on 16/01/2025 - 15:10

    The FBT exemption only applies to vehicles that don't attract the luxury car tax ($91,387).

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