At Fault Minor Car Accident - (Insured) Other Party Claiming $28k

Hey guys first off, I know this isn't legal advice etc.. but just wondering if anyone can lead me to the right direction.

My mother got into a car accident last August, she lightly crashed/scratched into the back of someone bumper, nothing serious, everyone is fine. I can't find the accident photos of the other car….

Scenario: Mother was waiting to turn right at an intersection, giving way to oncoming traffic. She misread her distance and slightly bumped and scratched the incoming car's back bumper.

Drawing of accident

Here is the photo of my mother's driver side, as you can see it's a very light scratch, not even cracked and no dents. The bumper is still in-tact, nothing to cry over.
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3

Both parties exchanged details, mother put in a claim a few days later with her insurance, car is insured under third party, some gentleman called my mother from the other driver's insurance, she gave the claim number. No communication from anyone since then.

Today she got a letter in the mail from the plaintiff, 'statement of claim', from court: 'local court of NSW' and wishing to claim $28k worth of items. For example, the defendant claims they needed to hire a car for $450 a day for 48 days.

She forgot all about the accident assuming it's all taken care of until she got the letter today, told her to call insurance ASAP and get an update.

To me it was a simple insurance claim, typical scenario of person A hit person b, no one injured. My mother can't find the pictures of her car but the scratches on her back bumper did NOT dent, crack or even displace the bumper, it was light scratches as well, most likely needed to be scuffed out and repainted…..

Few notes:

  1. The other driver only sent their DL photo to my mother
  2. Police was not called to the scene
  3. The other driver drove off, no tow truck was called
  4. My mother said she took at least 6 pictures of the other car but I can't find them in her phone :( But she said the damage on the other car was scratches only.

My POV:

  1. I honestly don't understand the legal proceedings wanting to claim $28k worth of items from my mother, especially when their car had light scratches like my mother's car.
  2. I don't understand the defendant needed a hire car for 48 days? Especially at $450 per day, when her car was perfectly fine at the scene and she drove off.
  3. Speculation and assumption: Insurance would have all the details of repair and if they needed to get a hire car. But that's information for later on when my mother calls insurance to get all the details.

I would like to get other people's perspective.

Next steps: Told my mother to call insurance on an update and tell them about the letter.

Edit: Told my mother to speak with insurance and tell them about the letter, and they can deal with it.

Edit 2: it's with insurance now, they're looking into it

Comments

  • +80

    send the letter to your insurance /thread

    • +4

      Thank you, she will do just that :)

      • +32

        Most people would get anxious if they were being sued for $28k.

        Just because you know the game doesn't mean someone else can't ask the question.

        • +3

          We all hate the playa around here!

        • +8

          I'll start with the first one, NRMA.

          If a person We cover makes a claim under ‘Cover for liability’ and We accept that claim, We will:
          – act for them or arrange for a lawyer to represent them;
          – attempt to resolve the claim; and
          – defend the claim in a court or tribunal.

          We will decide whether to defend or resolve a claim and how much to pay to resolve a claim.

            • +6

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: You literally cut a sentence in half and changed the meaning to suit your narrative.

              We will decide whether to defend or resolve a claim and how much to pay to resolve a claim.

              In other words, NRMA decides whether to fight a claim or just pay it out. But in either case they take care of the claim on your behalf.

    • +1

      Not so fast!

      This is an interesting and potentially entertaining thread

  • +4

    Call your mother’s insurance they will take care of it. Is it comprehensive?

    • Thank you, it's third party insurance

      • +6

        Which is exactly what it's for in this case

      • +2

        We assume you mean third party property, (I suggest your edit you OP).

      • +1

        Can you clarify: is your mother insured for (a) compulsory third party only, or (b) compulsory third party and third party property?

        edit: OP states mother is insured for third party property in a later comment.

  • +3

    I'm not an expert but looks like your mother have a comprehensive insurance, which means it's the insurer problem and not her. Insurance company should be dealing with that.

    • +1

      Thank you, it's third party insurance, forgot to mention that, does that changes things quite a bit?

      • +4

        No, still good. "A third-party insurance covers only the damages caused to the third party and their property or vehicle. Whereas comprehensive car insurance covers both own damage and third-party liabilities."

        • Thank you,

          Her car is worth like 3k (if she's lucky lol), that's why she went for third party.

        • +1

          *3rd party property

      • +1

        We assume you mean third party property.

  • +57

    That $450 per day sounds like those Right 2 Drive predatory practices/scams..?

    • +15

      Those should be outlawed, at least curtailed. Unless they’re giving out Bentleys no way should it be 450 bucks

    • +1

      Let's say it is, right 2 drive, isn't the customer not out of pocket and right 2 drive will just do whatever on their end to recoup the money from insurance? Why would they submit a statement of claim?

      Furthermore, why would the other person needing 48 days for a hire car @ $450 per day? This is a crazy amount for a hire car, I've hired sports car in the past for way cheaper.

      To my understanding, her car was fine to drive, unless the panel beaters needed to replace the bumper and needed to special order it, I doubt they would keep her car for 48 days to fix a scratch. They would have told her to drive until the part is in, no?

      I know I'm speculating but the items in the letter seems excessive for what happened.

      • +10

        I believe the other party was uninsured, hence why the went down the right to drive path.

        It generally is not the other driver physically commencing proceedings, its the company on behalf of the driver.

        Not legal advice.

        • Don't most insurance companies not provide hire cars anyway? or do they?

          • +3

            @cloudy: If you are not at fault and have comprehensive, you can generally hire a car and then seek reimbursement from your insurer - however best to confirm before going down this path.

        • Don't think this is correct. Even if you are uninsured and if you are the not-at-fault party then you deal with the at-fault party's insurer yourself and not through your own insurer which does not exist in this scenario

      • -1

        Your insurance company will rarely pay right2drive types, they pay to fix the other parties car and that's it.

        R2Drive types are trying to recoup the money directly from at the fault because no one will pay them officially.

        $450 a day is a scam, if you negotiated I am sure they will slash the price, but its still a scam nevertheless so don't pay.

        • +6

          Your insurance company will rarely pay right2drive types, they pay to fix the other parties car and that's it.

          Not true, if you are not at fault, you can claim a hire car costs from the at fault party.

          I believe the insurance company will reject R2D costing as they are crazy, but they do pay more than just fixing the car as claimed.

          Its why a lot of repair places will give you one of their 'free' loan cars while yours is being repaired, as they are claiming this back from insurance.

          • @JimmyF: If for some reason my mother's insurance is denying the plaintiffs letter for wherever reason, what is the next reasonable steps to contact?

            Also, let's say it is these R2D companies they're claiming, why would an official 'statement of claim' be made?

            • @hasher22: You'd be best to speak to a solicitor and have them draft a letter. It's almost certainly one of those scam accident car loan places. If you show them you're not going to pay and willing to challenge it in court they won't pursue it. They know they can't win so while they'll make threats, they won't follow through.

              • @apsilon: Understood. Let's hope it doesn't get to that part.

                It's with insurance right now and let's wait for their response.

                • +10

                  @hasher22: Your mother is indemnified by the insurance company. However, these groups cannot sue the insurance company, they can only sue your mother. Don't get a lawyer. You pay insurance for them to handle it.

                  The case would technically between the at fault diver and the not at fault driver.

                  So this is all very normal. The insurance company probably knocked back the claim as unreasonable.

                  Your insurance company will pay any reasonable amount. The other party can only claim a reasonable amount. What is reasonable will be the dispute.

                  You really shouldn't worry about it. It's a shake down and the other party is hoping the insurance company pays the claim instead of going to court as the cheaper option. If it goes to court (unlikely) your mother won't even need to turn up as there is no dispute as to liability, just what reasonable costs are. The insurance company and the other group will battle it out.

            • +1

              @hasher22: As you have raised an insurance claim for this issue, they need to deal with the insurance company to be made right.

              When you lodge a claim, you are in effect, transferring the issue, ownership/responsibility for all issues relating to this over to the insurance company to own/manage.

              They can't say, oh the insurance company isn't paying my bill, so I will go to the driver instead and you have to pay! You point them back to the insurance company, and they need to take them to court, not your mother.

              As for car rental costs, they can claim a like for like rental. So if claiming $450/day then that would seem very unreasonable for most cars, unless they hit a Bentley!

              • +1

                @JimmyF: They cannot sue the insurance company, it has to go through the mother with the insurance company paying the outcome.

                It's just legal process. The insurance company will take over management of the claim.

                • @happydude:

                  They cannot sue the insurance company,

                  I never said they can sue them…..

                  The insurance company will take over management of the claim

                  Yeah I know, things I said above.

                  • @JimmyF:

                    You point them back to the insurance company, and they need to take them to court, not your mother.

                    You didn't, but agree to disagree.

      • why would the other person needing 48 days for a hire car @ $450 per day?

        Their brother in law owns the car rental company.

    • These companies exist because insurance companies are scummy and try to wriggle out of paying for a hire car that you are legally entitled to.
      Someone rear ended my car (I don't have hire car option on my policy). I claimed through my insurance as the other driver was being slow about it and asked for a hire car just while mine was being repaired (it was fine to drive until it went in).
      They said they wouldn't cover it and bill the other insurance company so I used R2D and the other company got a giant bill for 10 days car hire.

      If they just did their job as they are supposed to, these companies wouldn't exist and premiums may be lower.

  • +10

    CTP or actualy 3rd party property ?

    • +1

      This!

      There’s a big difference in what your mum is covered for in ‘third party insurance’ between CTP and Third party property insurances

    • +7

      mother put in a claim a few days later with her insurance, car is insured under third party,

      CTP would immediately reject the claim, and advise so, as there were no personal injuries. I'm thinking mother is all good here.

    • +6

      3rd party property plus fire and theft.

      As stated by another member, CTP would reject the claim.

      • +2

        Edit your opening post to say this.

        • +1

          And all their other “third party” comments…

  • As mentioned by others, send it all to your insurance company and typically even third party insurance covers all this.

    Seems like your insurance company has rejected these parts of the claim so they are coming for your mother but she should be covered by any claim by her insurance company

  • +10

    $450 for 48 days? You could almost buy a brand new car for that amount of money.

    • +12

      Indeed. $21,600. Ridiculous.

      I just did a quote from Hertz, and the most expensive vehicle I could find for 48 days was a 'premium elite SUV' at $190 per day. Where is the other $260/day going? If it's going to those 'right to drive' kind of companies then no wonder our insurance premiums are rocketing upwards.

      • +1

        I constantly mention this but get told 'nono R2D is a consumer advocacy group for the not at fault party blah blah'.

        Some people will drink piss and say it's delicious no matter what you tell them.

        • Yeah. Wife reversed into an Audi. I swear it was a minor scratch on rear bumper that is barely noticeable but the other party made a big fuss. Frankly I would have and have let someone go when it happened to me years ago.

          Did not lodge insurance claim at that time thinking I would just pay for the repair cost. What shocked me was the courtesy car hire at pretty much a similar rate here for 3 weeks and I was like surely it doesn’t take 3 weeks to replace a bumper. The parts might come in 3 weeks but it’s then that you take your car in right?

          Anyway the driver went with the hire car option and I had to put in an insurance claim because of that. People think “it’s not my problem because you’re at fault” but I believe base insurance premium would increase because of such behaviour, and more for drivers with poor record.

    • -1

      Did you only read the title?

  • -1

    Pass it onto mums insurance and let them handle it. If your mum receives future communications from anyone, again pass it to the CTP Property insurer.

    • +6

      You mean TPP insurer. CTP does not cover property.

    • CTP doesn’t cover property.

  • +4

    My mother said she took at least 6 pictures of the other car but I can't find them in her phone

    I'll be concerned about this one too. How do you take multiple pictures and not have a single one in the phone.

    • Yeah, I don't understand this either, I can't even find 1 on her phone. She said she took them but who knows…….

      • +2

        Does she have a cloud backup?

        Make sure there isn't a filter applied showing only 'photos on device' etc.

        Old people unknowingly tap random buttons within apps that can create all sorts of havoc.

        Source - have older parents

        • +15

          Source - have older parents

          Would be surprised if your parents were not older than you..

        • I feel your pain with older parents. I wouldn't be surprised if she thought she was taking photos.

          She has onedrive and Google backup but unfortunately the auto backup is off for some reason. And nothing in the online backup drives unfortunately.

          • @hasher22: But the photo is meaningless now that your mum has admitted fault.

            The issue is how long and how much should the courtesy car hire be.

      • Doesn't really matter about the photos, that horse has bolted.

        The car hire was while the car was being repaired. Let the insurance company sort it out.

    • This happened to me

      I'm 100% certain and recall taking photos of something before, yet couldn't find said photos at all in album/gallery nor cloud when I need them

  • +3

    From outside, it seems that your mother hit an entitled prick. What's the car she hit, if we may ask? 450/day is unrealistic…

    • +4

      Sounds like one of those hire car insurance loan scam places that give you a 'free' hire car, and then claim a crazy amount back from the other party.

    • +1

      An Audi, she said it looked like around a 2010 model. But she doesn't know exactly what model it is.

      • +8

        If she got the rego when she exchanged details then you can look it up.

  • +11

    Both parties exchanged details, mother put in a claim a few days later with her insurance, car is insured under third party,

    YAY She has insurance, that is good.

    Today she got a letter in the mail from the plaintiff, 'statement of claim', from court: 'local court of NSW' and wishing to claim $28k worth of items. For example, the defendant claims they needed to hire a car for $450 a day for 48 days.

    Overpriced, but costs etc have nothing to do with your mother as she has an active insurance claim open.

    Hand the letter over to your insurance company, and if they contact your mother again, tell her to tell them there is a open insurance claim and to speak with the insurance company regarding it and not her.

    To me it was a simple insurance claim

    Simple or not, once you have a open claim, you let them handle it all. That is why you have insurance!

    Next steps: Told my mother to call insurance on an update and tell them about the letter.

    Correct steps.

    • +2

      Thank you. Hopefully we can get this matter sorted quick and easy.

    • +5

      Absolutely bonkers someone downvoted you when you have given the correct attitude and steps needed to deal with an insurance claim.

      Again goes to show how much Ozb is getting more dumb by the year.

      Claim letters are always bluffs when insurance is involved. It's got nothing to do with OP anymore once the claim is in.

      • Again goes to show how much Ozb is getting more dumb by the year.

        Yeah this place is special at times!!

        Claim letters are always bluffs when insurance is involved. It's got nothing to do with OP anymore once the claim is in.

        Agree, the other party knows they have insurance and got the car fixed using that. So yep this is purely a bluff as the insurance company told them to bugger off with their bogus $450/day rental!

  • Did they just fill in the statement of claim and send it to you, or did they actually file it with court and has a case number/stamp on it?
    https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/my-problem-is-about/my-money…

    • It seems like a legit letter. It has their details , My mum details , the lawyer details and multiple reference numbers to the case and people involved.

      • -1

        Make sure this doesn’t end up in front of a judge without your mother being represented in the case. She might get an order against her without her being able to show her side. It sounds like the other guy is part of a scam associated with excessive rental costs so they might not want it to go to trial either. Just be a bit careful how this plays out.

        Hopefully the insurance company is guiding you on what to do about the court case.

  • +3

    Tell them that the cheque is ready to pick up at this address ( then insert the address of your city's comedy club)

  • OP, as long as you are talking about 3rd Party Insurance and not CTP Insurance (very different things), have mum contact her insurer and ask for contact details that can be provided to the other side. She should not be dealing directly with the other side at all, and can simply instruct them to forward all further correspondence directly to her insurer.

    • +1

      Thank you, yes I have done this.

      We were shocked we got the letter in the mail. And I'm also dumbfounded on the 48 day car hire charge. But let's see what insurance says.

      • +3

        Not your worry. And the insurer will definitely dispute that rubbish ;).

    • -1

      It’s called 3rd party property.

  • +2

    they are absolutely scamming, 450 a day it would be cheaper to buy a new car than hire one.

    Especially since the bumpers are designed to crumple and there's barely any damage at all or indication of denting, the other car wouldn't be damaged at all, at worst it would be cosmetic scratch

    • Definitely cosmetic IMO, if you see my mother's scratches, no dents, no cracks and it's surface scratches.

      Unless my mothers car is a beast and fully destroyed the other cars bumper for it to be totalled to get a hire car for 48 days, IMO definitely a scam and something is not adding up about the hire car.

      I can't get my head around a bumper scratch and for someone needing a hire car for 48 days. And even if the panel beaters say it's gonna be a replacement bumper, they're not gonna hold the car for 48 days. I would reasonably assume they would say to keep the car until the bumper comes in and ready to be fitted.

      • The only thing I would say is depending on lead times and availability it could take some time to get a bumper.

        I waited 6 months for my Skoda part. Luckily had another car so didn't need to hire a car, but even so my insurance had one as part of policy.

        Some people simply don't know better and just leave the car because they are told to do so.

  • +4

    this is sad to see - why are people trying to extort other regular people?

    very dodgy behavior, my guess is whenever lawyers etc are getting involved, it immediately blows out of proportions

    • +3

      why are people trying to extort other regular people?

      You must be new to plant Earth. Welcome.

      • that's the problem, still trying to wrap my head around this shite ! after too many years to count

  • +1

    The other party is entitled to a like for like rental, so if the other car was a Lamborghini, it’s ok

    • +3

      "The other party is entitled to a like for like rental" - Agree.
      But it shouldn't be done at the detriment, stress or harassment of the at fault driver who's insured when R2D or similar don't get their way.
      It should be in network, insurance approved and provided, not by some external predatory third party cowboys who are making everyone's insurance more expensive in the process.

  • +2

    You don't need to even need to think about the costs. It doesn't matter what they were.

    In legal terms, your mother is 100% reasonable for the losses. So this is who needs to be sued. However, her insurance sits in her corner willing and ready to pay any reasonable amount and manage the case. So she is responsible, but indemnified by the insurance company. This is why she is being sued and not the insurance company.

    It feels scary, but they are in effect suing the insurance company but as your mother is technically the one being sued the other party (without prior agreement) has to serve the documents on her personally.

    This other party will be suing in the name of the other driver as the plaintiff. This is because when they look these repair and hire car services they would have signed the right for this company to sue in their name.

    The insurance company will deal with it. It's nothing to be scared of but just keep in contact with her insurance. The other driver has just used a scummy group that inflates the costs because they want to make profit.

    If it does see the inside of a court room your insurance will completely handle the case.

  • +5

    Firstly, get your mother a dash camera. Something like this may happen again, and it's best to be covered in case it becomes more serious, or your mother is victim of an insurance scam.

    You've got onedrive and google drive backup by the sounds of it. If she's got an android phone, make sure there are minimal restrictions on photo backup. Turn off automatic battery features for those apps. Alternatively, you can use services like OneSync or Drivesync to automate the process with reduced risk of failure (I use this as a fallback).

    If she has an iPhone, unfortunately you'll just have to cop it and pay for iCloud, since iOS has horrendous app background permissions and OneDrive and Google photos do not backup reliably unless the app is opened up frequently.

    On most phones and gallery apps, you can search pictures based on location. Try that if she has automatic location on for photos.

    Best of luck.

  • +4

    $450/day is cooked. I literally hired a car (Outlander) 2 weeks ago after a fender bender from Budger and it was $480 for a week.

  • +2

    One of the reasons car insurance has gone up so much. Its a pity criminal action for fraud cant be taken against these scumbags

  • Someone hit my car at the back, tailgate was damaged and wouldn't fully lock. Dropped the car to the repairer. It took 8 months to get it fixed due to the Pandemic and supply issues. I had a hire car from right to drive for about 4 months after using sixt for initial 4 months. Few weeks after my car repaired, I got a call from right to drive lawyer and said insurance refusing to pay them the hire car cost, they are going to the court and want my cooperation if needed. I asked how much they are claiming for, he said $32K.
    They gave me a kia sportage, used one, base model. The car wouldn't cost more than that to buy.
    The cost of hire car is way higher than the actual repair cost.

    • Few weeks after my car repaired, I got a call from right to drive lawyer and said insurance refusing to pay them the hire car cost, they are going to the court and want my cooperation if needed…

      Don’t leave me hanging!

      • I told him its too expensive and never heard from them again. I think they settled for less.

        • Didn't those scammers ask for your credit card details and for you to sign a form stating that you would be liable for the costs if they could not recoup them from the other parties?

          • @ass3ts: Working with scammers to extort at fault drivers and when things go south they turn against you. Lol…

            If someone is dumb/heartless enough to sign that piece of doc then what goes around comes around right?

  • +2

    Had a car accident recently. Insurance told me to organise repair with assigned repairer. At this repair company they told me to call this particular car hire company and use them.

    I called my insurance to check; they told me not to use this one as they jack up the price. I call my insurance to organise car hire company instead.

    The guy should use car hire from insurance and not use the dodgy one from car repair.

    • Should make a complaint to your insurance company to have the repairer warned or removed from list of approved repairers.

  • +11

    Had similar situation, partner was in an at fault accident, full comp insurance, her car was written off.
    Other car hit had minor damage(bumper, some trim, paint and maybe a bit of panel work) refused to even speak with my partner, give ID or any particulars & left the scene of the accident, we went to the police over it, wondered if it was stolen, an immigration issue, something else.
    Other party did have our details, she somehow got entangled with R2D (Right 2 Drive, the lowest, of the low scummy business that shouldn't be allowed to trade), who provided the hit vehicle driver a car for some long amount of time similar, 40~50 days.

    Months later my partner was approached and served by someone who'd been sitting in their car down the street as she left the house, the R2D solicitor (we didn't know it was R2D straight away) is some smarmy sleazy looking guy doing the work, it was a letter of demand for similar $20k or something stupid with a settle now option for $12k.

    Eventually we worked out it was R2D as it came from the hit person who's details we never had but engaged by R2D as our insurer refused them (R2D) at first as while they would have covered a rental for the hit vehicle but she never contacted them on the details we provided (to the hit driver), R2D took over and did what they do, scam people.

    We had several calls with our insurer and provided the documents, then they took over from there, I expect negotiating but never had time to follow up on the court date that was set. Hopefully R2D got nothing at all, I wish for them to go bankrupt and cease trading, thats the nicest things I wish on them.

    I'd suggest pushing your insurance company with the absolutely stupid letter of demand and let their legal team deal with it, that's why you have insurance.

    Plenty of horror stories online with terrible reviews about R2Ds behaviour, the amount of problems its caused people, people who don't know any better freaking out over letters of demand for outrageous amounts for minimal damage done to the other person's vehicle.
    I would not interact with R2D at all, I would not spend my own $$ on legal and pass it to your insurance company, there is zero reason you should be out of pocket.

    I hate this company R2D with quite some passion, this sort of predatory business should not be allowed to trade and operate how they are, refusing insurance rates and offering cars while charging full retail pricing then going after the at fault person to get something done.
    I really hope no one has paid them of their own accord out of fear with the letters of demand or court appearances either.
    Our insurance company person on the phone sighed like oh another one great, it seems a real problem for them.

    Good luck OP, hopefully it turns out fine, otherwise I'd be going to an ombudsman or similar.

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