Detailed Analysis: Which Brand RCAC Ducted System Is Better ?

OneIdiot on 18/11/2024 - 04:49
Last edited 18/11/2024 - 10:09 by 1 other user

I have read many old forum topics on this subject and I have summarised the major brands that supply ducted Reverse cycle air conditioners in Australia.

I reckon that more and more Aussies are now switching to ducted RCACs as they are being pushed by government, they are cost effective, convenient to control and allegedly better than gas based heating and evaporative cooling and individual split systems.

There should be an up to date forum and polling with your detailed experience and discussion based on below 8 points , so more of us can invest in something reliable, cost effective, intuitive and affordable .

Which brand is better , based on your personal experience, in terms of :

  1. Reliability - least amount of breakdown and maintenance issues
  2. Quick support from brand and spare parts availability
  3. Resin coating on boards, use of more copper coils , used friendly controls
  4. Faster cooling performance , and silent operation
  5. Higher efficiency means lower bills for equivalent size load
  6. Compatibility with latest smart apps and units
  7. Build quality , sturdiness, durability
  8. Price and affordability

Please respond to this discussion, selfishly for my own good as I am currently in the market for a 14kw RCAC and I finding it difficult to decide which brand to go for?

Poll Options expired

  • 0
    Actron
  • 0
    Carrier
  • 2
    Daikin
  • 3
    Fujitsu General
  • 15
    Mitsubishi Heavy Ind
  • 2
    Mitsubishi Electric
  • 0
    Midea
  • 0
    Panasonic
  • 1
    Samsung
  • 2
    Others
Electrical & Electronics Air Conditioner

Comments

  • joka on 18/11/2024 - 06:21
    +3

    None of this means anything if the installers don’t know what they’re doing up in the roof.

    We recently had our home done and a “one day job” took four days because they kept getting it wrong with the ducting. Long ducting, too many bends, crushed inflow duct… all means sub optimal results and bad airflow. Easy to pin it on the units but it’s often just not installed correctly.

    • netjock on 18/11/2024 - 08:08
      +1

      Sounds like tradies. You give them quality materials, they screw it up putting it together (or miss stuff) then blame the product when things going wrong.

      Water proofing is one prime example. Done badly or not put in at all.

      There is a question in the Cert IV for building and construction (2023) which is about disputes and the paint is bad because the painter didn't read the product data sheet which said 3 hrs drying time not 30 minutes which what he said he did. Most of them don't read the instructions / data sheets and end up missing stuff / hours reworking it. Sometimes it is just luck of the draw due to better tolerances in the item the client asked to install.

      Funniest is most of the brands are made by Chinese OEM. Haier and TCL is a OEM for lots of brands. In Europe Beko and Indesit are OEM for a lot of brands too. Many brands only manufacture their own premium products (or even better contract it out and shift the risk back to the manufacturer).

    • OneIdiot on 18/11/2024 - 22:51

      Now tradies could be well experienced and good at their job and also ones cutting corners and rather inexperienced ones.

      It's also not a guarantee that more experienced suppliers would send better tradies for your particular job, maybe they hired few newbies and you got unlucky.

      So, I would appreciate if you can suggest the best to ensure you get good supplier and then good experienced tradies who knows what they are trying to achieve

  • boomramada on 18/11/2024 - 08:39
    +2

    RCAC Ducted System Is Better ?

    How do I find out which is better based on asking the consumer? Better means comparing; I have nothing to compare. Even I have used Mitsubishi / Actron / LG / Samsung over time, and they all work as they should. They all have different configurations, features, and vintages. It's all about your needs, requirements, and budget at that time. Its like asking which fridge is better, or which car is better (Toyota Camry for Ozb).

    • sumyungguy on 18/11/2024 - 11:37
      +1

      Supremely insightful. OP needs to ask installers and mech engineers, people who know the industry and see lots of systems. Consumers will likely recommend the last thing they purchased.

      • OneIdiot on 18/11/2024 - 22:49

        How? If I contact installers , they would promote the brands they get most profits from.

        I don't personally know any installers to trust their word enough.

        So what you are suggesting maybe a good though but factoring it, and getting to speak to those installers with total transparency isn't possible

        • sumyungguy on 18/11/2024 - 23:21

          Many quote on-site so I always ask them what they'd put in their own homes. My last neighbour was a mechanical engineer whose firm provisioned only two options for high-rise residential projects: Daikin and ME (not MHI). My first ever unit was a Fujitsu but the installer said if he had the money he'd go Daikin. Last installer I asked said Daikin… but they do have their haters and perhaps their quality has declined but so has everyone elses.

  • wannagrababargain on 18/11/2024 - 09:27
    +1

    The system design is important for ducted. In my experience probably more important than what brand of outdoor / indoor unit you have. All the popular Korean or Japanese brand names have decent units that can easily last a decade or more. At their heart they're just a fan and a coil. What tends to go wrong are the wall controllers and control PCBs.

    I'll give you my own example. Moved into a house that is about 5 years old, has ducted, probably the "builder's special" package that seemed to be installed in every house we looked at. Consists of a basic outdoor and indoor unit, a basic wall controller, an upstairs and downstairs zone controlled by a separate 'zone boss' switch.

    If I was building the same house from scratch and had my heart set on ducted I would have done it differently. I would have put an 'inverter' type unit, more zoning, at least one for each bedroom, an integrated control panel that can control the zones too, more fine grain control of airflow to respond to demand (especially low demand). I wouldn't have installed an outlet in the upstairs bathroom which for all intents is wasted air (unless it actually made sense as a bypass zone).

    Ducted should pretty much be silent - one of it's advantages. However if your duct or indoor inlet is not sized correctly you can get whistling/airflow noise because the air velocity is too high.

    Ducted are efficient at cooling a whole house but not efficient at cooling one room. Individual split systems will be more efficient than a badly designed ducted system, which seems pretty much the default in new houses.

    • donga100 on 18/11/2024 - 12:09

      Ducted are efficient at cooling a whole house but not efficient at cooling one room. Individual split systems will be more efficient than a badly designed ducted system, which seems pretty much the default in new houses.

      This is overlooked by too many people. For most people it would make more sense economically/environmentally to install multiple split systems.

    • OneIdiot on 18/11/2024 - 22:04

      I am leaning towards multisplit system in each room with a central outside compressor unit.

      Lesser probability of error on tradies part

      Better control for cooling single room and multiple zones and lesser wasted energy

      • sumyungguy on 18/11/2024 - 22:08
        +1

        As long as your climate isn’t too extreme. If your compressor dies in the peak of summer you’ll have no a/c and wait months for a repair; not that different to ducted

        • OneIdiot on 18/11/2024 - 22:19

          Now, the problem is that multiple outer units take too much space and look ugly.
          And I am not sure VE rebate is available for seperate outer units and multiple split systems ?

  • dtc on 18/11/2024 - 09:59
    +1

    Depends on what you want.

    Actron allows you to reduce the system to a low percentage of maximum (20%?) which means you only need to heat one or two rooms at a time; Panasonic you need to be at around 40% or so minimum (so perhaps 3 or 4 rooms) and some have even less in terms of zoning levels. The difference in energy use isnt that great between 2 rooms and 3 rooms but the difference between 3 rooms and 7 rooms is a lot. Does Actron make sense given its higher initial pricing? Probably has a very long payback time vs a Panasonic or similar and then only if you want to dial down your zoning to one or two rooms consistently (in which case, as said, splits work much better albeit they are ugly AF if being retrofitted - if a new build then you can build them into the walls and are far less noticeable)

    Most of them have reasonable controllers but some have better controllers, ones you can use by phone. You can get 'myair' added so some systems, which costs a bit but adds useful functionality.

    People will vote for MHI due to reputation, its the Toyota of HVAC. But Actron, Panasonic, Fujitsu etc are just as solid.

    • OneIdiot on 18/11/2024 - 22:21

      I like MHI as well. But I can settle for Fujitsu as well as Panasonic. Not sure about Actron, haven't used it ever.

      Based on what I have least from this discussion, we would need industry experts for duct work, otherwise , best to go for multi split heads with one outer unit

    • OneIdiot on 20/11/2024 - 14:21

      A question though, smart controlling the multi head splits using factory apps seems very laggy, confusing and complicated.

      Do you know which brand RCAC has best wifi smart controlling apps and interface ?MHI seems the worst

      Otherwise I would have to get myair 5 unit adding extra costs to the setup.

  • JimB on 18/11/2024 - 10:48

    I wouldn't have an issue with Actron, Daikin, Fujitsu, MHI, ME or Panasonic.

    The main thing is that it's installed correctly and the installer is an authorised dealer/installer.

    Get 3 quotes and ask them their preferred system.

    Myself, I have Daikin as it was recommended by my installer (and they are an authorised dealer).

    • OneIdiot on 18/11/2024 - 22:46

      I agree with you.

      Could you suggest how to find authorised installers?
      From aircon brand website ? Or by manually contacting suppliers from VEU website ? That's like 100s of suppliers there

      • JimB on 19/11/2024 - 09:54

        If yoU go to the Daikin website, you can search the authorised installers near you.

  • hasselbladsnapper on 18/11/2024 - 15:21

    Daikin are great, recently had our 9kw ducted system die with a dodgey prime control board - salt and mouse pee!. The unit was 16 years old, and the service guy's sad Daikin was very good for spare parts over a long period of time. The cost was around $1300 …… we did also have the fans replaced, I recall it was about $1000 for the parts, plus the service call. They stated often with other brands, when the particular unit is discontinued the spare parts are often unavailable soon after. We were very happy with the outcome on our aged unit in function and cost.

  • OneIdiot on 20/11/2024 - 05:53

    After hearing all your thoughts and reading other forums across ozbargain and other websites and talking to few mates, and suppliers , we have decided to go with multiple split systems with one outer unit.

    We have an existing aircon in living area for emergencies if anything to go wrong with the new outdoor unit.

    This comes out cheaper, with lesser chances of anything going wrong. It has VEU rebates as well. And each slipt head would have its own controller, temperature sensor and zoning , plus a central controller and wifi smartphone connection could be implemented as well.

    • Ham Dragon on 20/11/2024 - 14:01

      What brand did you go for? I have Fujitsu splits (previous owner installed in last 5 years) but looking to replace with a ducted system for full house coverage.

      • OneIdiot on 20/11/2024 - 14:15

        Haven't installed yet.

        But I would go for MHI splits.

        With ducting the problem lies with poor workmanship in planning proper airflow through ducting , using high R value ducts , sufficiently wide ducts.
        Then again, you would need temperature sensors in each room for proper control with ducting.
        Lastly, the spill zones in ducting RCAC are just a waste of energy.
        And these are slightly expensive to install.

        So, if you don't mind the indoor units on the walls. Then multi split system is better in all aspects. And could be controlled individually with remotes or as a whole unit for whole house.

        • Ham Dragon on 20/11/2024 - 16:11

          Previous owners tacked a bolt-on extension to the rear of our 70s butterbox (single skin brick, single pitch roof, double storey), which encloses one bedroom entirely. The house gets great breeze but airflow to that bedroom is very restricted, so it's 2-4 degrees warmer in there. In the Brisbane summer that makes a lot of difference. I've been quoted anywhere from $3500-5000 for a 2.5kw split with condensate pump but those things are such a muck around. The extension bit is western facing with lots of glass (absolute geniuses the previous owners were) and no cooling except windows. It takes a few hours running the 9.5kw unit in the living area on high fan to cool everything down properly so figure ducted is the way to go.

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