Ubiquiti Unifi - New Setup Help

kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 10:33
Last edited 31/10/2024 - 12:54 by 1 other user

Hi there

I am currently running a Nest Wifi setup at home with 4 APs which are wired backhaul to the router. I have ethernet wired to about 8 locations . I have a netgear 24 port switch which takes care of all my wired devices such as NAS, desktops , hue hubs etc.

I have around 100 clients on average in the house, mix of mobile devices, VM and a couple of wifi IOT devices.

To be honest the system generally runs well but i am thinking of upgrading to Unifi to have more control and more analytics on the network and give me some things to tinker with and move to Wifi 6/7 at the same time. I generally hear that Unifi gear are the best out there for prosumers.

I did some reading up but not sure what sort of gear i need to transition over, hence the post. I thought i could get the prep done and look out for some specials around Friday. Cost is not issue as i work in IT for a living, work from home and see this as an investment.

I don't have a need for cameras just yet but don't want to rule them out.

I figured what i need is a minimum of

1 gateway / Router - Need to decide between Dream Machine Pro or Dream router (with integrated Wifi)

  • The questions i have around is which is better. for future proof. I would rather get something that is more "enterprise". In my research though i can't make out much difference. The Dream router seems to have Wi-Fi 6 but lower processing power. Does that matter? In other words which is a good gateway to get for a large busy household.

1 POE injector or perhaps a 8 port switch like the Pro 8 POE to power the APs

  • For value, is there a gateway that comes with POE Ethernet ports?
  • Can i use my existing netgear switch as a part of the network and still get the analytics throughout or does it have to be a Unifi switch?

3 or 4 AP points. I will start with 3 and add more as i go along.

  • Looks like Wifi 6 AP is best value now and Wifi 7 being quite expensive?

And lastly is there anything else I need?

Thank you

Computing Router Ubiquiti Wireless Access Point

Comments

  • helldoodle on 31/10/2024 - 10:48

    well almost none of your things will even have WIFI6 so sure aWIFI7 is over kill

    • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 11:37

      We have a couple of new iphones so they will be Wifi 6 but as i don't have that currently and still happy with the performance, you are right Wi-Fi 6 will be plenty and seems more bang for buck at the moment.

  • jerjergege on 31/10/2024 - 10:51
    +1

    Dream Machine Special edition has inbuilt PoE

    (1) 10G SFP+*, (8) GbE RJ45 LAN ports including (2) PoE+, and (6) PoE

    https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/cloud-gateways-large-sca…

    Wifi 6 AP LR

    • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 11:38

      Thanks, didn't realise this model has POE. Takes the need of a POE injector out.

      Your comment around WIfi 6 AP LR, is that what you recommend for the AP?

      • jerjergege on 01/11/2024 - 06:26
        +1

        Yep, you can also use their design centre to see what you need.

        They err on the side of more, but I used their 2.4ghz layout and the 5ghz still goes that far too.

    • giftcardinspector on 01/11/2024 - 07:56

      Just be aware that the 8 1gb ports share a backplane on the UDM-SE. Meaning they share the 1gb.

  • DGrayson82 on 31/10/2024 - 10:58

    The Dream router seems to have Wi-Fi 6 but lower processing power. Does that matter?

    If IDS/IPS are important to you than it'd be best to go for the router with more processing power.

    • Taxi01 on 31/10/2024 - 11:34

      yeah, that's 100% correct. your upload/download speeds are impacted if u enable it and using DR vs UDM Pro.

      UDM SE has extra hdd for cameras if u are thinking going that route. and the POE makes it a cleaner setup vs having multiple POE injectors. The price diff is about $150 = unifi switch with POE's.

      Cameras - Unifi cameras are expensive and may not have as high quality image as dahua etc branded cameras but i find the ease of use worth it for me, esp when trying to download videos etc. Archiving: https://github.com/danielfernau/unifi-protect-video-download…
      Unifi is also recently added connections to allow the upload videos to OneDrive/Google Drive, but i did not go down that path.

      Data - If you like more data from unifi you can look into https://unpoller.com/

      AP's - number of AP's are dependant on the number of wifi devices connected and how often and frequently it consumes 100% of bandwidth, and density of wifi channels in your area. I find that in high density apartments, these ap's perform well.

      Unifi is expensive for the basic stuff, but i like the ease of config.

      @hellodoodle is right in saying not many devices have wifi6 and to utilise the benefits of it… even lesser. Most likely our phones/ipads would use the most bandwidth.

      • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 11:49

        I didn't know much about IDS/IPS as its a nice to have feature for me. I will turn it on as per the reading its certainly a good thing to have but I have a 1000/50 and if i only get 600mbps with a DR then that will make the decision towards UDM SE more easily.

        My 1st priority being the network running smoothly and all the gear not being the bottleneck. in addition, if i run into any issues with a a device, a port , a switch or a cat cable is playing up i am able to identify easily which is where i am hoping the analytics can help.

        • rumblytangara on 31/10/2024 - 13:37

          Practically nobody really uses IDS. It's a thing that sounds great in theory to the home enthusiast, but unless it's implemented in a corporation with dedicated staff who are responsible for monitoring alerts, it quickly falls by the wayside. Useful for a taste though.

          Certainly the target market for a device as small as the dream machine doesn't have the resources to properly monitor and respond to alerts- IMO this is just more of the usual over-marketing that Ubiqiti routinely does.

  • aedomsan on 31/10/2024 - 10:59
    +1

    The analytics aspect is overrated, I’ve had much better out of pfsense boxes and openwrt, or maybe I just haven’t figured it out yet. The reason I like my Unifi setup and would pay for it again, is that it’s much less effort to configure, it auto handles things like vlan tagging and trunking.

    It will do the analytics for you even on the non Unifi switch, but it’ll only be detailed for wifi devices as the APs do the work (should still get internet analytics but no local traffic analytics for Ethernet devices, as traffic traverses the gateway)

    • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 11:50

      Noted.

      If i do also get a unifi switch, then will i get analytics on wired devices ? I can then plan to eventually replace my netgear switch at the end or anytime there is a very good deal on.

  • semaj on 31/10/2024 - 11:01

    If you have a rack space then maybe something like UDM-SE (includes 8x POE) is probably a good start or UDM-PRO with USW-16-POE

    If you prefer desktop form factor then perhaps Cloud Gateway Ultra and 16-poe-lite

    Paired with U6+ / U6-Pro or U6-mesh AP's

    UDR or Cloud Gateway Ultra are limited in the number or 'apps' you can run Network (Networking component) / Access (Physical Access Control) / Protect (Cameras/NVR) / etc
    That said; Ubiquiti is good for Networking - there are arguably better choices for Cameras/NVR

    • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 11:53

      I dont have a rack and dont think i will get one. Just a 24 port switch sitting on the desktop If i get the UDM SE i will prob just make it sit on top of the switch if it doesn't get too hot. I do have a cupboard where all the wiring is done, but its has just shelves. I like the udm SE or UDM PRo + USW-16-POE as i can get replace my existing netgear switch at the same time.

      • semaj on 31/10/2024 - 13:12

        UDM and POE switches do generate some heat

        Inside cupboard's I've used a bigger version of this open rack to mount them with breathing space

  • odgregg on 31/10/2024 - 11:08

    I currently have the UDR, 3 Unifi switches and 3 Unifi APs.

    Currently looking at replacing the UDR with the Unifi Cloud Gateway Max because:
    - it has 2.5Gbps ports and I now have a couple of devices that are 2.5Gbps capable.
    - it supports 1.5Gbps IDS/IPS - The UDR struggles to support even 600Mbps on NBN with/without IDS/IPS. And with the planned up to 2.5Gbps NBN plans next year, I'd like to future proof a bit

    I would lose the Wifi 6 AP in the UDR though (the other 3 APs don't support Wifi 6) so also considering an AP to replace that, but there are limited options with 2.5Gbps ports so may just go without for a while, or get one of the Wifi 6 APs

    All that to say, you may want to consider the Unifi Cloud Gateway Max. Or if you are okay with running the Unifi controller in a VM/Docker elsewhere, you could go for the much cheaper Unifi Gateway Max.

  • theSav on 31/10/2024 - 11:29

    How big is your property?
    I have a 240m2 house and my single AP-Pro6 gives great coverage mounted on the wall in the centre of the house. I have about 90 devices (phones, tablets, TVs, IoT, cameras, a few servers & NAS etc) with zero issues at all.

    In regards to PoE, you need to work out your power budget - some of the newer UniFi switches have lower PoE budgets and only half the ports support PoE.

    UDM SE might be a good idea, as it has PoE built in, or the USW16-Lite depending on how many physical ports you need?

    Ubiquiti has their ‘Designer’ software too (https://designer.ui.com) where you can upload a property plan, draw in walls etc & they drop equipment on the plan to see the coverage map. Its a great tool, use it as a guide & take it with a grain of salt ;)

    • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 11:56

      The house is fairly large - double story and total around 650m2. I currently have 4 Nest APs. I think i will start with 2 perhaps and see how i go. I can always add more

  • rumblytangara on 31/10/2024 - 11:37

    thinking of upgrading to Unifi to have more control and more analytics on the network and give me some things to tinker with and move to Wifi 6/7 at the same time. I generally hear that Unifi gear are the best out there for prosumers.

    I used to run Unifi and didn't find analytics to really exist. This was years ago so my recollection of the interface is hazy, but beyond what channels were selected and maybe which clients were connected to which APs, that was about it.

    The information that I get with Ruckus, even with the free Unleashed licence, is much more in-depth.

    But overall, as someone else mentioned wifi analytics are not terribly useful. It's more the router side of things that are meaningful.

    There have been some killer deals recently on Omada APs which I would consider first. Much less of the (unjustified IMO) price premium for what has for years been described as a cloned feature set.

    • Ramrunner on 01/11/2024 - 16:15

      "This was years ago so my recollection of the interface is hazy, but beyond what channels were selected and maybe which clients were connected to which APs, that was about it."

      I disagree with this running current Ubiquiti gear so I'd take that comment with a grain of salt. My opinion only.

      • rumblytangara on 01/11/2024 - 17:42

        Main thing is, when I moved over to real enterprise APs, I was blown away by the difference in information presented.

        • Ramrunner on 01/11/2024 - 18:15
          +1

          Oh look that's fair enough. I was focusing on your comment about Ubiquiti and the drill down info you can get on for example APs and switches including traffic monitoring and identification goes way beyond what you are saying is all I mean. I think it's been a while since you've actually played with it. We're on Unifi OS 4.0.21 with Network Application 8.5.6 these days and the differences from even a few years ago is chalk and cheese.

          Their high end gear (UXG-Enterprise, Enterprise Fortress Gateway (EFG)) now uses AI to decrypt TLS/SSL packets on the fly so even deeper traffic inspection.

          It's pretty insane.

          But those devices are super expensive and that won't filter down to the more "prosumer" devices. You get what you pay for I guess :)

          Can Ruckus identify and monitor decrypted SSL/TLS traffic? Not being a smart arse genuinely interested.

          • rumblytangara on 01/11/2024 - 19:33

            @Ramrunner:

            Can Ruckus identify and monitor decrypted SSL/TLS traffic? Not being a smart arse genuinely interested.

            Honestly no idea! Once I had the stuff set up (several years ago now) I played with it a bunch but was more concerned with more 'home user' stuff like multi-hop throughput testing, range testing, how signal strength was to individual clients. I vaguely recall that it was good to see that band selection worked more intelligently.

            But I believe that the Ruckus product line is more wifi-oriented, so is really about WLAN and not really internet-facing. The assumption is that you're using proper enterprise facing gear from properly specialised manufacturers, I guess.

            Also, I was and still am using the totally free Unleashed firmware, which I suspect doesn't give a lot of the fancier stuff (though iirc their free version still lets you control something up to 50 APs, which is very generous). In theory, Unleashed does let a WAP act as a router as well, but the router functionality is so limited that would be pointless.

  • geekcohen on 31/10/2024 - 11:40

    I upgraded to Ubiquiti from a similar situation to you. Whilst what I had before worked, going to Ubiquiti has been fantastic.

    I got a Dream Machine Pro and then slowly upgraded all my APs and switches. I just run Mini Flex switches with POE Injections. I feel that the Ubiquiti POE switches are expensive if you need it in other buildings (like I do). If you need it in the one place, then get a UDM Pro Special Edition (has 8 POE built in).

    I love the topology and whilst you can mix + match equipment, the topology doesn't show it and you may not see some data.

    I really like the overall network control, topology, AP control, analytics and networks. Its all flexible and fun to tinker with.

    I've put all of my stuff into a little 8 RU server rack and in my cupboard with a UPS backup. I suggest a UPS because the Dream Machine can take 5 mins to boot up in the event you have a small power outage.

    I dont have a need for cameras just yet but don't want to rule them out.

    I don't use mine for cameras, again, they are expensive and small range of cameras available. I have a seperate Reolink system for that, better choice of cameras and bang for buck.

    I have around 100 clients on average in the house, mix of mobile devices, VM and a couple of wifi IOT devices.

    Really? 100 devices? I have 50 and I think that is a lot? IOT, phones, tablets, desktops, laptops. 34 WiFi and 16 Wired.

    • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 12:07

      Thanks, i am hoping to get the same experience. The analytics and the tinkering is what is attracting me. More so for troubleshooting when things are not working suddenly . I end up wasting too much time on these things.

      I don't use mine for cameras, again, they are expensive and small range of cameras available. I have a seperate Reolink system for that, better choice of cameras and bang for buck.

      Camera's that is a investment for another year. For now i have some google nest camera around that are doign the job.

      Really? 100 devices? I have 50 and I think that is a lot? IOT, phones, tablets, desktops, laptops. 34 WiFi and 16 Wired.

      Yes i run around 100 regularly. Its the phones, laptops, VM's, NAS, 3x tvs with thier correspoding apple tv/google tvs, xbox, sonos speakers , iot etc. Sonos alone are like 20.

      I've put all of my stuff into a little 8 RU server rack and in my cupboard with a UPS backup. I suggest a UPS because the Dream Machine can take 5 mins to boot up in the event you have a small power outage.

      I might buy the UPS at a later point to phase out the spending. We dont tend to lose power frequently and when it does i feel its a good chance to give the network a reboot anywya. but you have given me a great idea for the rack. A quick google has a rack come up for $189 which is not bad and i mgiht get one to put everything in it and keep it tidy. Do racks offer any ventelation advantage? https://www.selby.com.au/brands/raxx/8u-wall-cabinet-530-300…

      • geekcohen on 31/10/2024 - 12:32
        +1

        The analytics and tinkering are good and a nice learning experience. I used the learning experiences for my IT work and now install Ubiquiti Equipment for customers. Love the remote management which is free!

        Okay on the cameras, thats fair enough. The devices is a lot, I guess it does add up, I don't have kids old enough for Xbox and other devices. That is probably another 5 years away.

        I got 6RU racks, sorry. I got them from Radio Parts with my trade account, cost me $100. Otherwise there is some on eBay or try https://cablepro.net.au/ is another place OzBargain people have recommended. You can get Fans Separately for any ventilation. I don't have any fans in my racks and my UDM Pro runs about 50 degrees, right now it is 49°C.

    • Ramrunner on 01/11/2024 - 16:16

      Be aware that Ubiquiti apparently now supports ONVIF so you can use any cameras……

      https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/26301104828439-Third-P…

      • geekcohen on 02/11/2024 - 06:30
        +1

        I wonder how Reolink cameras work with this…… I might have to see what happens with mine.

        • Ramrunner on 02/11/2024 - 12:43
          +1

          If you get the chance and only if you do get around to trying it, see if you can remember to post back how you went for others :)

          Good luck.

  • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 12:11

    Based on feedback so far, seems like DR is not a preferred and two options stand out so far - UDM SE + Existing Netgear switch or UDM PRo + USW-16-POE

    And add a couple of AP6 Pro devices to begin with. On the AP 6 Pro, all my cabling is in wall at eye level and not up in the ceiling so i don't want to mount the APs on the ceiling and run extra cabling. Can i leave the AP6 lying on the desk like you would with any of the other APs like Nest, Ace etc or should i look at getting the AP Mesh model solely for this purpose?

    In addition i will have to get a couple of mini flex switches for the tv cabinet area to wire up all the streaming devices and one for the NAS/Zigbee hubs etc

    • semaj on 31/10/2024 - 13:29

      I have not tried them myself, but you can 3D print or buy printed stands or legs of varying designs.

      • kaboom mel on 01/11/2024 - 10:08

        That's pretty cool. didn't know it existed. Thanks

      • rumblytangara on 01/11/2024 - 14:25

        Those are… purely cosmetic. I used to just dump mine flat on a table, or use 3M Command strips to mount them vertically to things like bookshelves.

    • Twix on 31/10/2024 - 13:37

      Don't get the Dream Router for 1000/50. UDM SE and UDM Pro are great for 1000/50 and you can leave the AP on the desk.

      Look at the Ubiquiti Cloud Gateway Max for your router, UniFi controller and NVR. It has a quad-core ARM processor, 3GB of RAM and five 2.5GbE ports. There is a built-in 512GB M.2 NVMe SSD and can be expanded up to 2TB if you end up with Ubiquiti security cameras.

      2000/100 (HFC), 2000/200 (FTTP) and 2000/500 (FTTP) is being released in 10 months.

      • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 15:05

        Does the Ubiquiti Cloud Gateway Max do what UDM Pro/SE does? i.e. router and switch.

        I was initially thinking the two options are UDM SE or UDM PRo + USW-16-POE, is this the third option?
        Ubiquiti Cloud Gateway Max + USW-16-POE . If so, is the Gateway max better than UDM Pro?

        • Twix on 31/10/2024 - 15:52

          Yeah the Ubiquiti Cloud Gateway Max is a router, switch, UniFi controller and NVR in a small form factor. It doesn't have PoE ports but it's not a big deal if you are using a dedicated PoE switch.

          USW-16-PoE is suitable for Gigabit. Get a different Ubiquiti switch if you need more 2.5GbE ports.

          The UDM SE and UDM Pro can hold 4TB or more if you want to store recordings for much longer.

  • apple2016 on 31/10/2024 - 12:48

    Ubiquiti is quite good. The only drawback is they dont have UTM!

  • rookie317 on 31/10/2024 - 14:50
    +1

    UDM/UDR are not actively promoted anymore so I think they'll be EoL soonish, they also don't get latest OS iirc.

    If you like Unifi eco, your router/gateway choices range from (cheapest to most exp) UCG Ultra (1G, Network only), UCG Max (2.5G, all Unifi apps + NVR), UDM Pro (10G, all Unifi apps + NVR), UDM SE adds PoE, UDM Pro Max adds more performance and RAID, UDW (niche product but cool if money is no object).

    If you want full network analytics, get a Unifi switch (or PoE gateway), they'll make your life much easier, and these can be relatively cheap-ish. Note that if you want 2.5G or 10G backbone, they can get pricey very quickly with Unifi.

    U7 Pro is pretty well priced imo. I'd get at least 1 for compatible devices and maybe a few U6 Pro. This is quite helpful for Unifi gears.

    Alternatively, you can have 80% of Unifi features at 50-60% the price by going TP-Link Omada. Omada gives you a lot of raw specs for the price but management plane is somewhat clunky and not as elegant.

    Personally I just recently preordered Alta Labs Route 10 which might be worth a look for you. Alta Labs networking is headed by the guy who founded pfsense + worked several years for Unifi so I expect good things. Their APs are also very well received.

    • kaboom mel on 31/10/2024 - 15:07
      +1

      Thanks, the links you shared are quite helpful. I might see if U7 Pro go on sale. If the price difference is not much then might as well go Wifi 7 to future proof

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