NSW Is Set to Legalise eScooters for Commuters Travelling to Work

RichardL on 28/10/2024 - 12:35
Last edited 28/10/2024 - 12:36

The 'E-micromobility action plan', which was released ahead of a parliamentary inquiry into electric scooters and bikes, is pushing to legalise and regulate the devices.

Transport Minister Jo Haylen is pushing the bold plan which would see e-bikes and e-scooters, including shared hire scooters, become legal for commuters riding to and from railway and Metro stations.

Under the proposed plan, e-scooter riders must be aged 16 years and over, are legally required to wear a helmet and must ride in designated bike paths or shared zones

Source: Daily Mail

NSW is one of the last state where it's still illegal to ride eScooters.

Hopefully it's not just for riding to and from railway and Metro stations…

Travel Electric Scooter

Comments

                • jv on 29/10/2024 - 10:11

                  @morse:

                  They'd have to stop them to do that

                  Stop Sticks

                  • morse on 29/10/2024 - 10:15

                    @jv: I'm pretty sure you can't catapult kids onto the pavement, even if they are breaking the law.

                    • jv on 29/10/2024 - 10:41

                      @morse:

                      I'm pretty sure you can't catapult kids onto the pavement

                      The kids would be doing it to themselves…

                      • morse on 29/10/2024 - 11:23

                        @jv: Whilst it’s all good and well to say this in an online forum. In reality, police dropping stop sticks in front of speeding scooters and bikes, injuring and possibly killing either children or adults isn’t going to fly.

                        • jv on 29/10/2024 - 11:27

                          @morse:

                          isn’t going to fly.

                          If they stopped, they wouldn't get injured or die.

                          They have a choice here.

              • us3rnam3tak3n on 29/10/2024 - 11:15

                @jv:

                Confiscate the bike/scooter for a start.

                Agree. If you're riding a vehicle that's been modified to break the speed limit it should be confiscated.

                • morse on 29/10/2024 - 11:20

                  @us3rnam3tak3n: Don’t disagree, but how is this enforced?

                  • us3rnam3tak3n on 29/10/2024 - 11:35
                    +1

                    @morse: It's an admittedly difficult job for police and rangers. Though spotting a scooter doing 60 when the limit is 25 is quite easy.

                    Fines, demerits and confiscation would be strong disincentives.

    • johnno07 on 29/10/2024 - 00:23
      +1

      I hate escooters. More specifically escooter users

      If it's any consolation, they probably hate you too?

    • quick-dry on 29/10/2024 - 14:37
      +1

      I don't think Aussies are significantly less courteous than the French, but when I lived in Bordeaux the escooter situation seemed to 'just work'. Whether out in suburban streets, the city streets, or the city's mixed/shared areas. You zipped along on the escooter where people weren't around, and you dropped it back to a slow speed if people were there.

      Are we that significantly different to other countries/cities? They did have a mandatory insurance, it was about $5 a month and similar to a CTP - though the providers seemed to differentiate themselves by offering theft or other additional coverage.

      • Boioioioi on 29/10/2024 - 15:01

        Yeah I dunno, I was in Sweden and it was fine there too. Just hate the implementation here in QLD. Again its a great idea, spoiled by rude users though

  • stickingly on 28/10/2024 - 16:02
    +4

    I love the idea of scooters and ebikes replacing cars, but they are a menace in the hands of the minority as they are unpoliced

    I was in the city in the weekend and saw many of them doing illegal and dangerous stuff in full view of police, who just didn't care.
    If they started fining people I think behaviour would change

  • watwatwat on 28/10/2024 - 17:43
    +7

    How sickening is it that 460,000 escooters exist/are being ridden in NSW right now and they are all technically illegal. ie. it's a game of Russian Roulette as to who gets away with it, or who has to pay up to $2500 in fines for driving an unregistered/uninsured motor vehicle.

    And society is just fine with police fleecing some people, not fleecing others.

    That said, thank you to Jo Haylen for helping progress this.

    I believe Andrew Constance lacked competence and was not a good guy.

    • EspressoDan on 31/10/2024 - 15:17
      +1

      Pretty much sums up why Australia is such a weirdly lawless place when it comes to petty crime amongst a minority, mostly youths.

      We have legislatures that love making laws and police that hate enforcing laws.

      The balance lies in the middle.

      • Legislators need to stop making silly, over-reaching, unenforceable laws designed for votes not outcomes with confusing wording and carve-outs (Qld personal transportation laws are a great example)

      • Police need to enforce the laws on the books to nip anti-social behaviour in the bud. High-speed e-scooters and e-motorbikes were illegal in Qld before the new e-vehicle laws came in and could have been easily enforced under that legislation without creating unenforceable rules about where people may and may not use personal transport devices that are incompatible with the physical layouts of cities and towns.

      Case in point, how can it possibly be legal to sell e-scooters and e-motorbikes (refuse to call them e-bikes) that are more powerful than allowed by law. The 'they can be used on private property' argument is absolute bunk and everyone knows it, politicians should grow a pair, restrict availability at source, deal with riders breaking sensible speed limits (12.5 on pavements and 25 on cycle paths and roads is ample on an e-scooter) and eventually we'll all get along and can actually benefit from the advantaged of electronic personal transport without people complaining about something that is green, convenient, low cost and perfect for the climate in most of the country.

      • tanksinatra on 31/10/2024 - 19:57

        Case in point, how can it possibly be legal to sell e-scooters and e-motorbikes (refuse to call them e-bikes) that are more powerful than allowed by law. The 'they can be used on private property' argument is absolute bunk and everyone knows it, politicians should grow a pair, restrict availability at source, deal with riders breaking sensible speed limits

        It's perfectly legal to sell a vehicle and components that can't be used on the road. Look at dirt bikes, race cars, quad bikes, segways etc. Hell many four wheel drive components are marked 'for offroad use only'. Besides different states have different rules, making it impossible to prevent micromobility from entering state borders. Restricting availablity at the 'source' is not realistic.

        I agree with your point on enforcing sensible speed limits however.

        • EspressoDan on 01/11/2024 - 10:03

          "It's perfectly legal to sell a vehicle and components that can't be used on the road……. Hell many four wheel drive components are marked 'for offroad use only'."

          Pretty much makes my point. An entire industry selling components that are at least unapproved, and at most pose significant safety issues on the road under the fiction that an "for off-road use only" disclaimer absolves them - as though people are removing their wheels, illegal lifts, LED lights, protruding winches and fishing rod holders and engine management systems before driving on the roads.

          30 seconds in traffic any day of the week says otherwise, and it's an absolute fiction to suggest that that particular past-time has a culture of anything other than slapping a warning sticker on something and then selling and installing it knowing full well the warning will be ignored, and many, many 4x4 drivers happily bolting on whatever they want regardless of the impact on their vehicles roadworthiness or the outcomes for any person or vehicle that them might hit.

  • BewareOfThe Dog on 28/10/2024 - 19:44

    Can they scoot in bus only/transit lanes, now there will be 50m cameras in Sydney???

  • JIMB0 on 28/10/2024 - 22:50

    What if you want to ride somewhere that is on the way to a train station? Do you have to ride to the station first? Then on the way back can you go straight home as technically you're on your way back from a station even though you made a stop on the way?

    • EBC on 29/10/2024 - 09:34
      +1

      I'm always on the way to a station as I will probably go to a station at some point in my life.

  • ass3ts on 29/10/2024 - 06:51
    -1

    2 in 3 adults in Australia are overweight/obese. Yet another reason to avoid walking.

    • JIMB0 on 29/10/2024 - 07:08
      -1

      The people who use them may ás well get a mobility scooter. It would save them having to walk once they got to the shops.

    • lunchbox99 on 29/10/2024 - 10:31
      +1

      In fairness people use them to travel much further than walking would be practical. In Brisbane people are regularly commuting 10km+ to the cbd. it would take you 2 hrs or more to walk that far.

      • ass3ts on 29/10/2024 - 11:19
        +1

        Previous research has indicated that the AVERAGE e-scooter trips are roughly 1-2km. Easily walkable.

        • lunchbox99 on 29/10/2024 - 11:42

          I don't know what to tell you… I ride 4x a week on a bicycle and I see many people on scooters on bikeways many km from the cbd. I see them on the M1 veloway in Brisbane, the coronation drive bikeway, the northern bikeway. They are clearly commuting to/from work in the cbd or near the cbd.

      • JIMB0 on 29/10/2024 - 12:03

        commuting 10km+

        That's an easy 30 minutes on a pushbike.

        • lunchbox99 on 29/10/2024 - 12:32

          20+kph sustained on terrain that is not perfectly flat is not easy for many people. it's certainly doable but I wouldn't call it "easy".

          • JIMB0 on 29/10/2024 - 12:42
            -1

            @lunchbox99: It'll get easier the more they do it. Beginners have the best gains.

    • whitepuma on 29/10/2024 - 11:26

      Don't think you understand. The plan is for this to encourage public transport use, pushing people away from cars.

      Overweight/obese people that refuse to walk aren't going to take public transport, they will just drive.

  • Myone888 on 29/10/2024 - 07:46
    +4

    New should impose insurance like any motorised vehicles. These e scooter are big n heavy and can knock down pedestrians.

    • Save Medicare on 29/10/2024 - 12:46

      Yes it is known as the medicare levy

  • YodaBaby on 29/10/2024 - 07:54

    Yes but will they adhere to the same road rules just like every other motor vehicle users? The crazy speed they use zooming past pedestrians especially on shared pathways or footpaths are ridiculous, will there be speed limits? Or will they be a**holes like cyclists.

  • bigbadboogieman on 29/10/2024 - 08:40
    +1

    I hope they include some form of licencing and insurance requirement so they can perform enforcement actions for rule breakers. It is a motorised vehicle and should be regulated in some way. It can absolutely damage property and hurt people.

    Police received 124 reports of e-scooter crashes in the three years between 2020 and 2023, which resulted in three deaths and 116 injuries - 40 of which were serious.

    Pedestrian Council of Australia CEO Harold Scruby labelled the uptake in private e-scooter and e-bikes as 'pure anarchy'.

    In his submission to the parliamentary inquiry into e-scooters and e-bikes, the pedestrian advocate said the devices would turn footpaths into a 'hostile' environment.

    'To show such utter contempt for pedestrians and turn footpaths into hostile and potentially lethal environments defies belief,' Mr Scruby said in his submission.

    The move to legalise e-scooters in NSW comes after Melbourne's city council banned them in August.

    Melbourne Lord Mayor Nick Reece filed an amended motion at a Future Melbourne committee meeting, which called for the contracts of e-scooter providers including Lime and Neuron to be cancelled.

  • saltypete on 29/10/2024 - 09:14
    +1

    It'll be a bit of a mess unless there's some decent education on the part of e-scooter users.
    Footpaths being shared doesn't mean the e-scooter or bikes have ROW. Horror of horrors - if you are on the faster conveyance, you need to slow down for the 5 seconds it generally takes to safely pass a pedestrian.
    Footpaths are not skinny roads made for e-scooter or bikes. The majority of bike riders 'get' this. Due to education and a general culture that has built up over time. E-scooters need to be educated.
    I dont think the hire scooters have been a good segue (or Segway🤣) into this form of transport.

    • lunchbox99 on 29/10/2024 - 10:38
      +1

      I regularly cycle to brisbane cbd. The people I most frequently see flying past pedestrians at high speed are the lyrca cycling crowd. They go very close to people and don't slow down at all.

      I also see plenty of pedestrians with zero situational awareness. Wandering all over the path, walking in dedicated bicycle lanes, walking 4 abreast occupying the entire path, walking on one side of the path with their dog on long leash on the opposite side of the path (leash blocking entire path both directions).

      Seriously you just have to slow down and ring your bell. Just be patient and tolerant. it doesn't really add much to your journey time.

      • BobLim on 29/10/2024 - 22:57

        it doesn't really add much to your journey time

        Maybe my routes are different to yours, but I occasionally cycle to work and doing ~4km/h for significant sections near my destination seems to add a fair bit of time compared to the 20-30km/h on the rest of the journey. The difference in travel time between quiet vs busy days on the same route is sometimes 10-15 mins

        Slowing right down for pedestrians with no clue (often in dedicated bikeways, or walking/playing/dogs going the same direction down both sides of a wide shared path with clear centreline), or to avoid erratic delivery riders on their illegal electric motorbikes making random stops and u-turns… it gets old quickly (and tiring especially on a hot day with heavy bags), over the course of an hour or so.

        • saltypete on 01/11/2024 - 09:05

          So, in a 20km commute the last 10 min is slow because of other footpath users.
          Still not doing too bad.

          • BobLim on 01/11/2024 - 09:37

            @saltypete: As in the last 2km takes somewhere from ~7 to ~25 mins, while the majority of the distance is consistently done in under 45

      • Subada on 30/10/2024 - 12:30
        +1

        Exactly. People can walk in groups and change direction suddenly. Cyclists/scooters on footpaths and shared paths need to take this into account.

    • akl977ad on 30/10/2024 - 08:04
      -2

      Education can be enforced in 2 seconds.

      Make scooters the same class as motorbikes.

      So people have to get a riders licence. Which in NSW involves two weekends with professional instructors to get your learners and provisionals.

      Then insurance and registration comes into it which covers what other people are asking what happens if they are in an accident and injure people or damage property.

      That should be how it's handled.

      • quick-dry on 30/10/2024 - 10:17
        +1

        are we especially incompetent in ways that other developed countries like France are not? This isn't a unique problem. escooters are limited in certain ways, and if they want something that can operate at full road speeds then they're in the realms of proper scooters/motorbikes and the eadditional requirements of those.

        Imagine the prioblems initially with yahoos being allowed to take a metal frame, geared up to go high speeds, vastly faster speeds than pedestrians, and then unleashing it on the people with no requirement for licensing, trainnig courses, no mandatory registration, or checking that brakes are in working order, chaos… or it actually worked out for the most part and we can live with bicycles normally. Or skateboards, or people on rollerblades, or "insert anything new".

        • akl977ad on 30/10/2024 - 15:35

          What's wrong with doing a riders course? Is it that hard if you want the privilege to use a motorised vehicle?

          It's to prove you're at least somewhat competent on the roads, know the road rules and can maintain control of your vehicle.

          And insurance and rego is there for a reason something you need to have but hope you never have to use.

  • DiscoJango on 29/10/2024 - 09:33
    +1

    On your left habibi

  • Cave Fire on 29/10/2024 - 12:19

    Saw a Victorian YouTuber with an on road e-scooter/vespa in 2017. Thing had relatively good pickup and made sense for small local trips. Qld's law at the time was strict on e anything unless pedal assist e bike. Laws changed suddenly, but no one to police it or enough regulations. They chose pavement vs bike paths for instance. In one case, a e scooter was clocked at 94km/h on a bikeway. Think they should be on the road but various groups don't want them on.

  • cswine on 29/10/2024 - 13:12

    going to be like melbourne I bet. Will be idiots using it and making people scared, then boom its banned

    • watwatwat on 29/10/2024 - 13:47
      +1

      then boom its banned

      It's already banned so things can only be better than they are now.

      Even if they are banned in the future, at least they will be regulated and I think the fines will be lower.

    • try2bhelpful on 31/10/2024 - 09:10
      +2

      Melbourne banned the rental ones and kept the privately owned ones. There is some logic that people who own the device will treat it better than the rental people. It also means you are less likely to have drunken people decide they will hop a local scooter and drive home.

  • Deals For Days on 29/10/2024 - 14:38

    Number of deaths due to e scooters in Australia vs cars?

  • mubd1234 on 29/10/2024 - 22:09
    +1

    I think it was stupid to ban them, and even more stupid to legalise only the rental scooters. The justification for the police fining someone $1500 for riding one evaporated the second they did that.

  • BobLim on 29/10/2024 - 22:25

    Now we just need to ban the e-scooters from trains - I don't need to be sitting right next to a big box of hazardous material every commute thanks.

    • Save Medicare on 30/10/2024 - 08:45

      If they do this, they should build parking garage or bike rack type things for commuters at train/metro stations

      • BobLim on 30/10/2024 - 13:43

        Absolutely. Make the car park smaller and use that space for a more efficient mode.

      • dvsbastard on 31/10/2024 - 09:39

        Honestly, they could dedicate a handful of car spots to scooters and that would be more than enough and would have a negligible impact to car parking. The only problem is securing them properly!

        I have seriously considering leaving my beater car near the train station for the week for the sole purpose of securing an electric scooter!

        • [Deactivated] on 31/10/2024 - 09:59

          Councils at least in Sydney really can’t afford to take away a handful of car parks on the road from motorist to turn them in dedicated spots for e-scooters. I don’t think you realise just how many complaints councils receive daily about cars parked on the street, from people dobbing in other people because they want the spot for themselves. A lot of people report unregistered beater cars parked on the street for this exact reason.

          Plenty of homes now have 4 or more cars, but they don’t have the space in their driveways to park them all, so they park them on street, however there’s not enough spaces/parks on the street for everyone in all of the households to park the amount of cars they all own there, so it often results in neighbourly disputes where each party thinks they have more right to the street parking than their neighbours. It’s become overpopulated in Sydney and there just isn’t enough parking spaces for everyone, and it’s only going to get worse.

          • Save Medicare on 31/10/2024 - 13:13

            @[Deactivated]: Why does a single household need 4 cars? Should there be progressive rises in car rego costs beyond the 2nd car per household?

            • [Deactivated] on 31/10/2024 - 13:42

              @Save Medicare: There’s various reasons for it, such as there are 2 parents and 2 adult children living in a house who each have their own car, or it’s a share house and each person that lives there has their own car, or the people in the house each have a personal car and a company supplied vehicle, etc.

              People that have 4 cars or more are only a part of the problem, parking in Sydney is a major issue on plenty of streets where most of the households only own 2 cars, for example on streets where there are apartment complexes and each unit only has one car space on the common property, there’s often not enough street parking for everyone.

              There’s also a lot of street parking issues from people owning 2 or more cars, as well as boats, caravans and trailers, and they don’t have enough room for all them on their driveways, so they either park their cars on the street, or their boat, and/or caravan, and/or trailer on the street thinking they can leave them there permanently when it’s illegal.

    • Seaeagles on 30/10/2024 - 10:56
      +2

      Not going to happen, the amount of e-scooters and e-bikes on the train is massive.
      What about mobility scooters, do we ban the less able to catch public transport because their batteries are also made of hazardous materials.

      The fires from these scooters are mostly from idiots using cheap aftermarket replacement chargers or batteries.

      • BobLim on 30/10/2024 - 13:57
        -1

        the amount of e-scooters and e-bikes on the train is massive

        This is exactly the problem. Other jurisdictions have banned them so presumably it's not an insane thing to do.

        You're not going to be carrying petrol cans, welding gas or pool chemicals on the train - the risk is similar by rmy eckoning.

        What about mobility scooters

        My understanding is these generally don't use Li-ion, and they have a higher standard of manufacturing and design safety.

        Disability aids are also obviously incomparable- you can take your seeing eye dog into a hospital but not your pet wolf, for instance. Bannng mobility devices wound presumably also be illegal discrimination- not an issue for e-scooters.

        mostly from idiots

        Maybe true, but as with all blunt instruments…

  • ddn2004 on 30/10/2024 - 10:32

    Its gonna be a fun time dealing with erratic pedestrian and dumbass drivers.

    • Subada on 30/10/2024 - 12:34
      +2

      Pedestrians (aka people) are erratic. No one's obliged to behave like they're driving a car when walking on the footpath.

      People riding scooters and bikes need to pick a safe speed and give plenty of clearance when passing people walking. As someone who cycles to work and uses shared paths I see other riders buzzing people at full speed and it's not safe.

  • joelmuzz on 30/10/2024 - 10:44
    -2

    Anything with a motor of any size should simply be a motor vehicle subject to licence, rego, CTP insurance and an ID plate.
    A lot of the issues would be immediately resolved as the idiot minority get stripped of their licence and rego flagged.

    • watwatwat on 30/10/2024 - 11:52
      +4

      And it is a beautiful thing that no one with those demented views are in charge right now.

  • YodaBaby on 30/10/2024 - 15:34

    I was at Woolies last evening and an idiot rode an e-scooter zooming past the aisles with many shoppers around as if he was having a fun ride in the park! You couldn't make this up!!!

  • imurgod on 30/10/2024 - 18:53

    Great idea in theory, absolutely atrocious idea in practice.

    Watch how many deaths, injuries and house fires will occur.

  • Gamer Dad Reviews on 30/10/2024 - 23:08
    +2

    The negativity towards the new modes of urban transport that our society is adopting is quite disappointing.

    eScooters and eBikes are fantastic new technologies that are enhancing the quality of life for residents in our cities dramatically.

    They provide excellent urban mobility while simultaneously reducing both air AND noise pollution in our cities.

    Frankly, every car that is replaced on the roades by an eScooter or eBike rider is of net benefit to everyone - even motorists - as the roads become less clogged.

    Unfortunately, due to lack of infrastructure, eScooters and eBikes must be allowed on to footpaths, because the risk to pedestrians from eScooters is less than the risk to eScooter and eBike riders from cars if eScooters and eBikes are forced to use the road.

    In extremis - 10 drunk eScooter hoons zipping around and crashing into pedestrians is still safer than just one car travelling at 40km/h who's driver just happens to suffer a medical episode. Just ask the students at Auburn South Primary School in Melbourne.

    The only solution ultimately is to construct raised, separated, safe lanes for eScooters and eBikes that are separate from both footpaths AND motor vehicle roads.
    Don't say it can't be done because it has been done - in Amsterdam - and its f^cking amazing.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/10/2024 - 23:20
      -5

      Or perhaps the Government should slow down on immigration and over populating the country, and stop letting large numbers of Indians and Asians in (especially when a large percentage can’t speak English, or very well, and essentially require an interpreter), and stop allowing every person that doesn’t have much skill and doesn’t know how to make money from pretty much anything other than purchasing a property to subdivide/turn it into dual occupancy.

    • EspressoDan on 31/10/2024 - 15:57

      Amen to that brother.

  • squaredonut on 31/10/2024 - 10:22

    I don't know what the rules and guidelines for escooters and ebikes are.

    But I would like for them to have an ID/number plate, but have the government keep it at a very cheap price and one time registration cost for it.

    Yeah I'll wait for the pitchforks and people coming at me about more red-tape.

    A lot of ebikes and escooters has the potential to reach speeds that can cause harm.

    Adults can be aware and dodge, but I've had a lot of near misses, especially with my little kids in darling harbour with the maniac delivery drivers riding them, despite there being 40km/h signs around.

    Yeah sure there's going to be people who abide by the rules, but there's also a crap ton of assholes who ride these things around pedestrians carelessly.

  • Bignudge on 31/10/2024 - 14:05

    As soon as this is legalised… the streets will be zipping with ebikes and scooters. It's currently too scary being on the road with a bicycle or scooter as cars are zooming past you.

    But I'll change my mind about it when you pull up to the lights in a car and have like 8+ bikes surrounding it. There needs to be bikes everywhere for cars to take more care.

  • zealmax on 31/10/2024 - 15:11

    I have seen enought footage to never get on an elevator with an electric scooter or ebike.

  • EspressoDan on 31/10/2024 - 15:18
    +1

    Australia is such a weirdly lawless place when it comes to petty crime amongst a minority, mostly youths.

    Case in point, how can it possibly be legal to sell e-scooters and e-motorbikes (refuse to call them e-bikes) that are more powerful than allowed by law. The 'they can be used on private property' argument is absolute bunk and everyone knows it. Politicians should grow a pair, restrict availability at source, deal with riders breaking sensible speed limits (12.5 on pavements and 25 on cycle paths and roads is ample on an e-scooter) and eventually we'll all get along and can actually benefit from the advantaged of electronic personal transport without people complaining about something that is green, convenient, low cost and perfect for the climate in most of the country.

    We have legislatures that love making laws and police that sometimes seem to hate enforcing laws, maybe because the laws are often so petty that it's not worth the effort to convict.

    Unfortunately, this leaves laws as the worst possible things, just an artifact useful for lawyers and insurance companies to argue why a kid mown down by a driver on their phone doesn't deserve compensation because "they weren't wearing a helmet".

    The balance lies in the middle.

    • Legislators need to stop making silly, over-reaching, unenforceable laws designed for votes not outcomes with confusing wording and carve-outs (Qld personal transportation laws are a great example)

    • Police need to enforce the laws on the books to nip anti-social behaviour in the bud. High-speed e-scooters and e-motorbikes were illegal in Qld before the new e-vehicle laws came in and could have been easily enforced under that legislation without creating unenforceable rules about where people may and may not use personal transport devices that are incompatible with the physical layouts of cities and towns.

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