Giving Way to Buses - Driver Behaviour

Mintee on 22/10/2024 - 21:27
Last edited 23/10/2024 - 11:01 by 1 other user

Hey everyone, I'm curious about people's thoughts on behaviour towards buses when driving.

So, the situation today (Sorry no dash cam this time guys): Map for reference:

  • It's an 80km/h zone, everyone traveling at approx 70km/h
  • The bus stop is located just past a set of traffic lights in a road cut out, merging into a dual lane road
  • Lights are green
  • I saw a right hand indicator on the bus, for maybe, 2 blinks before it began to move.
  • There is Car 1 (located at the white bike lane sign), Car 2, Car 3 (me), Car 4, HUGE gap in traffic
  • Car 1, came to a complete stop to allow the bus to enter, Car 2 HONKED THE CRAP out of car 1….

I was reading through legislation and here and….. kinda agree with car 2, just on the basis that these blokes legit 'just pull out' because they put their blinker on. Given most of them are moving from a stationary position at the side of the road or in a median strip parking area, the driver must give the change of direction signal for at least 5 seconds before the driver changes direction. Can I start honking them or am I just being a douche?

Keen to get thoughts of other driver's experiences with buses (I mean they're not as bad as taxis)

Automotive Bus Public Transport

Comments

  • Benoffie on 22/10/2024 - 21:54
    +23

    When leaving the kerb, they have right of way, not that you'd know it in Adelaide.

    I swear Adelaide driver's are just aholes 😒 Poor buses here have to wait quite often.

    • MS Paint on 22/10/2024 - 22:00

      they have right of way

      @pegaxs - keep it together man.

    • Tech5 on 22/10/2024 - 22:04
      +2

      Just curious if this applies in any and all situations? I let them out if it is safe to stop in time. But I have also had buses switch from all blinkers, to right side blinkers and then swing out while I'm about halfway past them on a 60km/hr road. Absolutely no warning at all, without exaggeration

      There is a road notorious for it outside a local train station. A few months ago, I had to move into the oncoming lane to have time to slow to a stop and avoid the bus.

      EDIT: Answered my own question. According to Victorian ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2017 - REG 77:

      "The driver of the bus must give the change of direction signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians—see rule 48(2) and (3)…. it is safe for the bus to enter the lane, or line of traffic, in which the other vehicle is travelling—see rule 87(2)."

      So I'm guessing no. The the bus indicator is not a get out of jail free card to drive a heavy vehicle dangerously.

    • Shifter0183 on 22/10/2024 - 22:05
      +1

      To be honest, drivers are like this everywhere. Doesn't matter that every bus has the give way sign at the back with the flashing lights, its like most people instantly forget half the road rules once they pass their L's.

    • AustriaBargain on 23/10/2024 - 06:26

      In before "right of way doesn't exist in Australia".

    • Morphio25 on 24/10/2024 - 10:36

      I had one go off at me last Friday on Grand Blvd at Seaford because I didn't give way to him. Mind you he only began to indicate as I had already passed the back of the bus so I'm not really sure what he expected from me, I guess to just stop dead in the middle of the road so he could drive out and around me. He beeped me so I opened my sunroof and gave him the bird.

    • Eeples on 25/10/2024 - 08:20

      Not sure we are supposed to say ‘right of way’ anymore.

  • Shifter0183 on 22/10/2024 - 21:59
    +18

    You're missing the obligatory mspaint pic.

    • Bruceflix on 22/10/2024 - 23:36
      +15

      Agreed. In struggling to picture this scenario without it

  • Gunnar on 22/10/2024 - 22:04
    +16

    In most parts of Australia as far as I know Busses have the ‘give way to bus’ sign meaning they have right of way. Sometimes cars are jerks to busses (well mostly to all heavy vehicle drivers) and other times the heavy vehicle driver is a jerk.

    Ultimately they have right of way and they’re bigger than you (including Raptor drivers) so you’re going to come off second best in a crash. Use common sense and just let them through (also be ready to jump on the brakes going past a stationary bus). Without seeing what happened in your situation Car 2 was a d.ck

    • Eeples on 25/10/2024 - 08:21

      Please stop saying ‘right of way’

      You know that’s my trigger phrase.

  • JimmyF on 22/10/2024 - 22:22
    -3

    I'm curious to peoples thoughts on behaviours towards busses when driving

    The old unwritten rule of bigger the vehicle, the more right of way they have does apply :)

    But as you're in VIC, have a read of this

    https://transport.vic.gov.au/Road-rules-and-safety/Trucks-bu…

    Give way to buses

    • You must give way to a bus leaving a bus stop.
    • The bus will display a 'Give way to buses' sign and have its indicator on.

    So as you said, the bus had its indicator on, so it had right of way.

    on the basis the these blokes legit 'just pull out' because they put their blinker on

    See points above, they don't just pull out for fun of it, they have right of way and lets be honest, as you know a giant bus is going to pull out in front of you no matter what, you wouldn't give way to it and let it out. The only reason people slow and give way, is they know if they don't, the bus is still coming out! So see unwritten rule 1 above.

    • Tech5 on 23/10/2024 - 00:11
      +4

      Same road regs say this

      Victorian ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2017 - REG 77:

      "The driver of the bus must give the change of direction signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians—see rule 48(2) and (3)…. it is safe for the bus to enter the lane, or line of traffic, in which the other vehicle is travelling—see rule 87(2)."

      So they can’t pull out without indicating reasonably long

      • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 10:39
        -6

        So they can’t pull out without indicating reasonably long

        By the OP, it blinked at least twice before they pulled out, how much more notice do you need? A traffic light goes from green to red in the same time than two blinks of a bus blinker and you can stop.

        Regardless, its not unexpected by anyone that buses will pull out in traffic even with no gap. Surprise surprise, no one gives way to them unless they are pulling into their lane, so on the blinker goes and out the bus goes.

        • Tech5 on 23/10/2024 - 10:57
          +2

          Depends. That seems to be possibly a 70-80km/hr road? Two blinks may only be about 1.5 seconds and car 1 was maybe 5m away.

          If it was wet or car 2 was following close, I would say that it would possibly not be safe for car 1 to slow.

          And you miss my point. All i am saying is the indicator is not a blanket rule, as written in the road regs. People always quote “the rules” but noone ever reads them fully

          Yea sure the bus is bigger and will come out on top, but if you had a dashcam proving it was unsafe, then the government pays

          • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 11:06
            -6

            @Tech5:

            Two blinks may only be about 1.5 seconds

            Pretty short blink cycle, I'll give you 2 seconds maybe 3. Most blinkers are 1 blink per second.

            If it was wet

            We're not playing the what if game, it wasn't wet.

            All i am saying is the indicator is not a blanket rule, as written in the road regs

            The road rules say, you must give way to a bus that has the blinky things on, and a reasonable time is defined as around 5 seconds before the bus can enter.

            The OPs lack of seeing the blinky things on isn't the buses issue.

            Yea sure the bus is bigger and will come out on top, but if you had a dashcam proving it was unsafe, then the government pays

            Sure if you can prove the bus acted inappropriately you have a case.

            • Tech5 on 23/10/2024 - 12:06
              +2

              @JimmyF: As I said- I was not originally responding to OP. I was responding to you and your selective quoting of the regulations.

              If 5 seconds is reasonable, why is 2 blinks (3 seconds as you say) reasonable?

              • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 12:27
                -4

                @Tech5:

                If 5 seconds is reasonable, why is 2 blinks (3 seconds as you say) reasonable?

                Just because the OP only saw 2 blinks, doesn't mean it wasn't on longer now does it.

                Nothing selective at all, bus has right of way if it has its blinky lights on, which is did.

                Thanks for the mass neg, make you feel better?

                • Tech5 on 23/10/2024 - 12:29
                  +2

                  @JimmyF: It has right of way but it must be safe use that right of way. Not sure why it is so hard for you to understand

                  And you either take OPs post at face value or not.

                  Maybe not two blinks. Maybe there was rain. Maybe it was a 40k zone. Maybe there were no cars. Maybe he imagined it the entire scenario.

                  A second ago you are happy to argue that two blinks was 3 secs. Now to support your argument, you are saying there was more than two blinks.

                  I think you are just a difficult person.

                  • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 12:34
                    -2

                    @Tech5:

                    It has right of way when safe to do so. Not sure why it is so hard for you to understand

                    It might have been safe to pull out. Not sure why it is so hard for you to understand that it might have been safe, even if the OP is butt hurt the bus cut them off as they hadn't been paying attention.

                    And you either take OPs post at face value or not.

                    Pick a side, which you have taken the OP as truth. I just pointed out the road rules that the bus hasn't acted in a way that is unexpected for a public transport bus to act.

                    Maybe there was rain

                    Again inventing things. Maybe the bus blinked the blinky thing 10 times but the OP was too busy looking out the window to notice them.

                    Maybe it was a 40k zone

                    Well we know it wasn't.

                    I think you are just a difficult person.

                    LOL you're the one who picked a fight with me.

                    As per the road rules you posted, the bus has right of way if they signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers.

                    As the OP confirmed the blinky thing was on for at least two flashes that THEY saw, then it seems reasonable to me they gave enough notice to warn drivers of their changing direction.

                    You most likely will disagree, but that is your view not mine.

                    • Tech5 on 23/10/2024 - 12:39
                      +1

                      @JimmyF: Im going to end with this. As i have said multiple times, I dont care at all about OPs situation. I only made comment on it after you brought it up.

                      I initially only responded to you to add the regulation that you forgot to quote. It seems you struggle to focus and stay on topic.

                      • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 12:50
                        -4

                        @Tech5:

                        I initially only responded to you to add the regulation that you forgot to quote.

                        I didn't forget to quote anything, I linked to my source. Which then linked to the rule you linked to.

                        It seems you struggle to focus and stay on topic.

                        LOL How funny of you to claim this, when I'm the one staying on the topic, while you struggle to stay focused on the OP situation and start inventing random events like rain etc.

                        The road rules are pretty clear, you must give way to a bus leaving a bus stop. The bus will display a 'Give way to buses' sign and have its indicator on.

                        For those like you, who like extra special notice, yes if you dig into the road rules the bus needs to have its indicator on for 5 seconds or more.

                        LOL but for the rest of us, if you see a bus with the blinky thing on, give way to it as its coming out. It isn't rocket science.

                  • Eeples on 25/10/2024 - 08:23

                    @Tech5: There is no ‘right of way’.

  • freefall101 on 22/10/2024 - 22:28
    +9

    Can I start honking them? or am I just being a douche

    You cannot start honking them. That is not what your horn is for and car 2 should have gotten a fine.

    The bus has to give way to the vehicle but car 1 also has a responsibility to not cause an accident. Car 1 did absolutely the right thing. If Car 2 wanted to shoot pass the bus then they wouldn't be breaking the law either, but instead they laid on the horn.

    tl;dr just because you can doesn't mean you have to. The bus may have done the wrong thing, but what car 2 did is arguably worse.

  • altomic on 22/10/2024 - 22:51
    +9

    Buy your own bus and drive however the hell you want.

    Click on the link below to follow me for more lifehacks.

  • El cheepo on 23/10/2024 - 00:24

    The signs on the back are clear, give way.

    But many of them drive like brainless morons and don’t show any due care when pulling out.
    That sign on the back isn’t a license to drive carelessly, but they act like it is.

    To be fair, many bus drivers (not all) are as brainless as the majority of normal drivers - the difference being they are in a larger vehicle.

    FWIW i am clearly biased 😂

    • Bren20 on 24/10/2024 - 08:07

      Newer buses don't have the sign!

      • El cheepo on 24/10/2024 - 10:33

        Haven’t noticed that, but regardless the rule is still the same.

  • Dollar General on 23/10/2024 - 05:34

    Driver 2 may have been in a rush to get home and do nothing. The extra 30 seconds could make or break his/her day

  • Euphemistic on 23/10/2024 - 05:48
    +7

    Can I start honking them?

    No. Thats not what the horn is for. Its a warning device, not a special way to say you are angry.

    • Mintee on 23/10/2024 - 11:35

      But i mean if theyre just pulling out? Isnt that justification to avoid a collision

      • Euphemistic on 23/10/2024 - 12:47

        You can sound your horn as a warning device. Its not made to express displeasure. You dont 'honk them', you 'give a warning'

  • Some Human on 23/10/2024 - 06:53
    +1

    I would be more worried about breaking ozbargain law by not providing dashcam footage or ms paint

  • Mintee on 23/10/2024 - 07:46
    +1

    Maybe i should have clarified who and why the honk. It wouldnt be at another driver it would be at the busses for not providing a reasonable time with their indicator before pullin into traffic

    • CrowReally on 23/10/2024 - 08:45

      No, that would still be wrong. I read something clarifying the whole position just recently here which might help

    • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 10:40
      -3

      reasonable time with their indicator before pullin into traffic

      What would you class as reasonable? It most likely was on for far long than you noticed.

      • Mintee on 23/10/2024 - 10:55

        As per the law and links in original it defines it as 5 seconds

        • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 10:57
          -3

          So it was on a reasonable time as defined by law if you saw at least 2 blinks.

          • Mintee on 23/10/2024 - 11:05

            @JimmyF: I would argue that 2 blinks is no 5 seconds :S

            • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 11:07
              -2

              @Mintee: I would argue it was on longer than the 2 blinks you saw….

  • brotherfranciz on 23/10/2024 - 09:14
    +7

    You know what, it's reassuring to read all these correct comments on the internet for once.

    Also, people just need to calm down and have a little patience. A 5-second delay is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    • nobro25 on 24/10/2024 - 23:07
      -2

      I disagree. Especially during peak hour. That 5 seconds means that you can potentially make the light of not. Also more often than not the light that you stopped at is the long one can take anywhere from 30-120 seconds.

      That's the first problem. Second problem is during peak hour there's traffic backed up so there's basically no way to catch up.

      Second problem is the longer you stay on the road the more chances of a car accident. This rule also applies to the more cars on the road the higher the chances you'll get into a car accident. There's also another statistics that 90% + of accidents occur during heavy traffic and at low speeds. Regardless if the accident is fatal or not. Being in an accidents also adds to your commute time.

      Summary, That 5 seconds can cost you realistically an extra 5 mins for every 10 sets of traffic lights or worse with traffic extra 30 mins and even worse if you get into an accident that's hours and money lost.

      • cloudy on 25/10/2024 - 14:10

        If 5 seconds means so much to you, leave 5 seconds earlier.

  • stickingly on 23/10/2024 - 09:27

    There are (profanity) drivers everywhere.

    These are the same people who speed in school zones, and road rage my kid on L-plates because she is still a bit cautious and hesitates slightly.

    • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 10:41

      There is a special place in hell for people who do that to drivers on L/Ps. You want them to be cautious! Not drive around like a crazy person.

  • ThithLord on 23/10/2024 - 09:44
    -1

    Are you okay, OP? Did you survive?

  • Ocker on 23/10/2024 - 09:50

    Mite is right

  • coffeeinmyveins on 23/10/2024 - 10:09
    +3

    As others have said, bus has right of way.

    However, I've seen bus drivers indicate ONCE and just YOLO into the right lane.

    Having right of way and not causing an incident are what seperates the good drivers from the bus drivers. 99% of them as assholes on the road.

    • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 10:43
      +1

      99% of them as assholes on the road.

      While I agree they appear this way, I do feel it is the only way you can drive a bus in the city.

      People don't like letting a single car in, let alone a bus that is equal to like 4 car lengths long and four times as slow as at getting to speed.

    • Eeples on 25/10/2024 - 08:30

      Not sure there is such a thing as right of way.

  • Bignudge on 23/10/2024 - 10:35
    +3

    On similar note of buses and them pulling out from a bus stop…. it's the most annoying, confusing, and dangerous thing ever when they signal right when moving forward from a bus stop. Are they just going straight? Straight then signalling and turning left? Changing lanes to the right? Forgotten signal light?

    I always give way cause I have to and end up causing more chaos to drivers around me.

    Imagine if cars signalled right everytime they started moving from a stop. Absolute chaos….

    • Mintee on 23/10/2024 - 11:22

      Hahaha i totallllyyyy agree with this

  • TALL1one on 23/10/2024 - 10:43
    +2

    Do buses have right of way in Victoria?
    Driving safely with buses - Public Transport Victoria
    You must give way to buses, particularly if they're leaving a bus stop.

    • Eeples on 25/10/2024 - 08:29

      No1 had ‘right of way’

  • Seraphin7 on 23/10/2024 - 11:38
    +1

    Yes, there is a requirement to give way.

    The problem I often observe is that, much like the OP is alluding to, bus drivers take it as a "right of way". That is, they put their blinker on for two flashes and then pull out into a stream of traffic in 20 tonnes of vehicle for which they carry no liability and expect everyone to just throw out the anchors.

    Certain bus operators/companies appear to be worse offenders than others.

    • JimmyF on 23/10/2024 - 12:42
      -2

      bus drivers take it as a "right of way". That is, they put their blinker on for two flashes and then pull out into a stream of traffic

      See the law, a bus does have right of way….. Would it matter is the blinker was on for two flashes or 200 flashes? Will the stream of traffic slow to let them out? Nope, so the buses only choice is to pull out.

  • Flying Ace on 23/10/2024 - 11:53
    +3

    I hate the "Give way to busses" rule - they really do abuse it and tend to just pull out no matter how close you are to them.

    The other day I was waiting in a queue at a set of lights with a bus stop on the left. I was ahead of the bus. The bus pulls forward alongside me, puts his nose just in front and then indicates and starts merging into my lane. Absolutely ridiculous.

  • cbom on 24/10/2024 - 00:40
    +2

    Indicating buses are yellow lights. If you can safely slow down, you do, if you can't you don't.

  • garage sale on 24/10/2024 - 05:12
    +1

    i am extra cautious around buses because sometimes pedestrians try to cross the road after getting off the bus and they do it from the front, maybe they have mental health problems , poor eye sight, from another country where that is the norm, the hassle of dealing with an insurance claim whether you are in the right or wrong is more of a hassle than being cautious. honk the horn? if the driver in front was on his way to his meth dealer you might end up a road rage victim.

  • capslock janitor on 24/10/2024 - 07:48
    -1

    Be extra wary around buses and big vegicles

    • beerpara on 24/10/2024 - 07:57
      +1

      Frozen vegetables?

  • mrvaluepack on 24/10/2024 - 08:59

    Traffic stories from the wild west…

  • ReaperX22 on 24/10/2024 - 09:46

    Generally speaking, I just don't fight buses or trucks. I stay away on turns, I let them in. My car is much smaller. I'll lose everytime. It's not worth it!

  • kator on 24/10/2024 - 11:13
    +1

    What goes around comes around.

    There was curtesy 10-15 years ago, drivers let in the buses when they indicated regardless of the rules.
    Nowadays nobody gives a shit, so the bus drivers just go. Otherwise, they would be waiting for a while.

  • Name on 24/10/2024 - 18:36
    +1

    Car 2 was a douche and anyone who beeps at someone who is obeying road rules is also a douche.

    Had someone beep me at a red light once.. I'm guessing they were nsw drivers where they are used to being able to turn left on red.

  • GrimCheaper on 24/10/2024 - 19:40

    Anytime you see a stationary bus on the side of the road - whether at a bus stop or not - assume it's going to pull out. If I'm in the relevant lane that the bus could potentially pull out into, then I will slow down expecting them to put on their blinkers at the last second and pull out in front of me. There is even a sign on the back of the bus to indicate this could very likely happen.

  • Kranbone on 24/10/2024 - 20:26

    If a bus is in front of you, you must give way to the bus. think of it like this, if you can see the yellow and red stripe on the back, do not overtake sign on the rear or, rear signals, you can't overtake them.

    If a bus driver wants to turn and part of the space is occupied by your vehicle, they have to wait for you to finish, it's the cars behind who must let the bus in.

    tl;dr, they have right of way, but can't barge into occupied or semi occupied space.

  • Caped Baldy on 24/10/2024 - 23:43

    At least these aren't like the American yellow school buses. Both directions need to stop when the red stop sign pops out.

  • Poor Ass on 25/10/2024 - 02:03

    not sure about other places but in Qld if the speed sign is over 70km don't have to give way to buses … too dangerous to slow down

    isn't there some rule how you need to slow down when passing buses or trams in Vic?

  • Eeples on 25/10/2024 - 08:27

    Drivers are inattentive.

    Most of the cars didn’t see the bus up ahead, or that it blinker went.

    All of the cars certainly didn’t notice the reaction of all the other cars.

    Drivers looking only 5m in front of them; is typical.

  • DiscoJango on 25/10/2024 - 09:12
    +1

    No, they need to adhere to the road rules like every other vehicle. Source: my neighbor who is vic highway patrol. Has even pulled over many bus's thinking their above the law.

    • Mintee on 25/10/2024 - 09:39

      Oh this is interesting!

  • Ghost47 on 25/10/2024 - 17:14

    Whenever a bus leaves the kerb you're supposed to let it go. It does depend on the circumstances, if you are a fair way behind the bus, maybe 30-40m away and it's pulling away from the kerb and you can come to a stop then you must do so. But if you at the rear of the bus and travelling at speed and can't stop safely then you should just keep going and hopefully the bus driver (if they aren't a dud) will realise you're there and let you pass first.

    If I see a bus that is stopped I pay extra attention to it in case it decides to swing out in front of me. Either I will change lanes early and safely or if that's not possible try to gauge whether it is about to take off, e.g. if I'm behind a bus about 80m-100m away and it pulls over and I saw there's two people getting on the bus then chances are I'll be able to pass the bus without worrying about it pulling out in front of me. All of this you learn via experience.

    Most driving depends on the circumstances, e.g. you are not supposed to run yellow lights but if a car is right on your tail then obviously you shouldn't brake hard to not run the light because you could get rear-ended (and it's idiotic to cause an accident to prove a point to other drivers on the road).

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