Hi all, looking to buying a new car
A few shortlisted include the Palisade and Santa Fe
Unfortunately, many in this class only come in AWD in the diesel variant, and some don’t come in petrol at all. As we generally drive short distances (i.e. 20 minutes to work everyday plus maybe a slightly longer drive on weekends), the concern is the short trips on the diesel engine
Have modern diesels become more adapt to shorter trips over long periods of time?
Why should one have to change their driving to suit the engine. I want to drive my car however I wish, even if it is just short trips to the shops.
Short trips are not good for any petrol engines as they can't reach operating temps.
@CurlCurl: They seem to cope fine with short trips and don't require expensive visits to a workshop as a result.
They seem to cope fine with short trips and don't require expensive visits to a workshop as a result.
You can't see it, but it's happening.
From the experts.
As for short journeys doing more damage: The parts (like rings and pistons) don't fit properly when cold. Fuel and water blows past them into the sump, contaminating the oil. (Water is a principal combustion product, so fuel + O2 becomes CO2 + H2O. The water is produced as a gas.)
Get the oil changed twice as often as the manual recommends if this is a concern.
@CurlCurl: Yes I agree it's doing damage, yet engines still manage to last many hundreds of thousands of kilometres and often outlive the rest of the car even with average maintenance.
‘Not doing as required’ aka not driving at high speeds regularly.
Remove the buildup, clean it out. It’s all the same, the mechanic has to intervene because of driving habits.
Go ‘ahkctually’ elsewhere.
The OP has a requirement that would fit ideally with a plug-in hybrid. Short trips during the week on electric recharged overnight, plus a longer one at the weekend that a battery EV would be struggling to do. But I suppose there aren't any in that market segment?
I don't suppose the OP would be willing to adjust what he thinks he needs to fit with what's available in that regard, to save the planet. Wanting an SUV is a pretty good indicator someone isn't. They want someone else to save the planet for their kids.
I am a huge fan of EV but I dislike the way some used to promote the EV as a means to "save the planet" as it is such a weak argument and alienates people, myself included. The EV saves money in the long run, and that's the key to its survival and thrival.
Thanks for everyone’s feedback
Yes I need a 7/8 seater, that is someone usable in the third row. Hence the Palisade.
Many cars of that size; with features similar (and price point) to the Palisade are diesel only
Toyota Kluger Hybrid, or if you can live with a small 3rd row, have a look at the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
The kluger interior is just lacking for me
How about the Audi Q7 55 TFSI quattro S line? 7 seats, petrol, AWD.
The BMW X7 is also a 7 seater, petrol engine and AWD from a quick google.
@popcornready: Mazda seem to have multiple large SUVs that also tick the boxes too, looks to be cheaper than those two options as well.
If you won't let go of the need for AWD, nobody can help you. Your hand is forced in that case.
Hence why I am asking about diesel and the filter situation.
I wasn’t asking anyone to sell me on petrol or ev, I was asking about the diesel limitations
The only way around it IMO is to buy the provent 150 and have the dealer install it, so they can't complain if you ever have a warranty claim for any particular issue with the vehicle.
I'd certainly try to have preference for non diesel if possible.
AU falcon on gas
For 7 seats and only city use , Kia carnival would be an better option rather than an SUV
100%, coming from a Sorento owner.
If its a city based car DO NOT get a diesel
Had an Audi Q7 3.0 tdi. Dpf clogged up and couldnt regen. $8k, 2 months, 1 new refurbished engine and 6 injectors later i was happy to get rid of it.
Now drive an ldv with a 2.0l turbo petrol and havent looked back
havent looked back
No mirrors on the LDV?
Oooh
Goood, got a chuckle outta me
Actually 360 degree cameras
i have kia sportage gt diesel driven 95k my2018 purchased brand new. it has not skipped a beat. i drive to and from work, a total of 12 kms. Avg speed 30-40 km/h
You seem like the perfect EV candidate.
Get off the behemoth express, nobody cares.
Maybe consider a long range EV. Good for trips on the weekend, great for commutes, limited servicing costs.
So what's the verdict, is OP buying a diesel for short runs?
All the sheep these days drive SUVS and all the SUVs look the same as each other - baaaaa.
Nothing wrong with an SUV, theyre the most practical car out there. They're popular for a reason
I live on a farm with steep gravel driveway. 2wd 2013 rav4 has no trouble if when loaded. Front wheel 2019 q3 bloody hopeless. Honda 2016 jazz does struggle but still gets up. Navara 4wd 2016 in 2wd does struggle. 2wd Tucson is like q3 hopeless. Tesla has no problem. So not all 2wd suv are equal. Holden Cruze 2016 no problems. So not all fwd cars and suv are equal.
Toyota Alphard/Vellfire is your answer. Your welcome.
I had a modern-ish diesel, a 2018 VW, 2L turbo diesel for 2yrs. Regularly did 10 short trips every 12km round trip (1km to kindy, then 5km to work) in the morning, then same return journey in the afternoon. Took it on a longer drive maybe once every fortnight with some highway driving 30mins+. Oddly enough its the most reliable car I've owned, but also the least modified.
Never had any issues with DPF regen/clogs etc. Most of it was stop-start crawl traffic too. I felt bad for the car doing that and now own a gasoline burning car.
Listening to your responses just makes me realise that you're a bit stubborn. Please go into a showroom and let them deal with the headache.
You live in a city but still talking about diesels. There's absolutely no reason for anyone in Australia to buy a diesel while living in a city unless you're flying around Australia on a weekend doing hundreds of kms. This isn't California or Germany.
You live in a city and still talking about how hybrids are no a go because of the interior. What on earth do you even do with an interior? All it needs to do is not fall apart and a Kluger interior will last you 20 years with no issues.
It's 2024 and you're still talking about 15-20 year old diesel engines.
The cars you have quoted are about to become obsolete in a few years.
AWD won't mean anything when you are stuck in a mechanic repairing your diesel engine because you drive 40 minutes to work in a 60 km/h road.
One of the other commenters hit the nail on the head. YOu are a perfect EV candidate or hybrid. IF you are looking to buy an SUV, you don't care about ride quality. SUVs are the worst cars to drive if you want the fun of a car to throw into a corner or accelerate quickly with. And you're talking about soccer mum Hyundais (snooze)…..cmon man. Be real with yourself.
Im just surprised everyone isnt shitting on the guy for buying new. Thats not the Ozb way! Then there's the insanity of needing a 3 row diesel for short city trips. Its obvious OP was never going to end up making good decisions.
Ahh yes,
You don’t need 3 rows because of the short city trips.
I’ll just get a car with 2 rows (5 seats) and take my 3 kids and wife first, drop them off 30min away and then return for the 4th kid. Very convenient
and that level of seating requires a new diesel to carry your families weight I assume.
@surg3on: I have a preference for AWD. So if there are suitable petrol variants that are not at European manufacturers price points, please let me know
Geeezzzz i came in here because im also interested in what ppl have to say about the question in the heading. Diesels and short trips… i only saw 1 person who shared their opinion… and why is everyone so angry?? lol
Why do many diesel 4wd owners leave the car idling when they aren't in the car? I assume it's something grandpa told them to do.
I was taught to keep it running for few minutes after parking to flush the turbo.
Jeez why is everyone so angry
because diesels are a headache and a half for city drivers. One thing I enjoy doing is blasting my Toyota diesel down the highway in sydney and getting pulled over by cops, then telling them I need to get the black shit out of my diesel engine and the only way i can do that properly is to drive fast.
I'll never buy another diesel… been nothing but trouble.
Correct, the EGR will get dirty and eventually fail if you don't do regular longer trips.
Correct, the EGR will get dirty and eventually fail if you don't do regular longer trips.
Incorrect.
Been there, done that
Been there, done that
That's why you need a quality catch can on all common rail turbo diesels.
There are ways to delete the EGR from operating. Costs 60 cents.
There are ways to delete the EGR from operating. Costs 60 cents.
I thought that would require lots of expensive piping work!
@agravier: The correct resister (60 cents at J car) inline with the correct wire before the MAF does the job.
You can also buy plug and play delete cables for various model vehicles for $120.
@agravier: Why would you want to delete EGR? It's like having variable displacement and it cuts down on very polluting emissions that diesels inherently produce.
For the average vehicle i would just install a smaller capacity oil & air separator and follow the servicing and filter replacement instructions.
Provent and ryco make good low micron filter units. There are others around too.
@Oofy Doofy: Because right now my car's been out of service for 3 months and counting due to the mechanic having to source the replacement parts from France (Citroen). The mechanic says they ordered the parts but have no tracing of the shipment and I may wait several more months.
I was wrong to buy an uncommon second hand car (my bad, although I'm a new driver, no one advised me), but the manufacturer is also at fault for selling cars that should not be used mostly for short trips lest the EGR and its cooling system self destruct.
Why not a replaceable filter (to address emissions) and a bypass?
@agravier: Its not the EGR so much as the DPF (in your situation). The other problem that compounds all of this is 100k+ km intake manifold gunk that would be severely choking it. Which then throws off the maf sensor and then they're injecting way more fuel than necessary.
Again, a filter that catches crankcase venting and egr contaminants helps to prevent all of this from becoming a costly maintenance issue as the vehicle racks up the Kms.
Why would you want to delete EGR?
To help prevent this.
@CurlCurl: It was a rhetorical question.
You can prevent that without deleting it, modifying it etc.
You lose a lot of benefits when you get rid of it, also. There are no free lunches.
@Oofy Doofy: It was a free lunch. Well over 300,000kl, no clogged manifold and no mechanical downside.
Intellectually dishonest.
I'm glad you never worked on my Pajero.
The same mechanic at the same workshop did the first oil change, and every service till I sold it January this year with 360,000kl on it.
It has never been serviced by Mitsubishi.
OP, seems you have finalised the cars from either of those ones.
It's a huge, huge challenge to come up to shortlisting of cars. So well done on that.
I have had similar situation and decided to go for Palisade and can confidently say, this has been amazing car so far. Touchwood. Sometime being noob is ok and go with what u love and best fits u.
While AWD not needed regularly, there are times when u would need this badly maybe for fraction of second or for couple of seconds. It's a big car and be confident that for those moments you have power to move through. U should see AWD engaging on the dashboard when set to be seen/setting done. Understand what those scenarios are and amend your driving habits to make it better/safer for car and u.
All the best !!
EDIT: For the mileage, I have got this car doing 6.2L/100 kms as best. Was only once though :)
Link: https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/181061/115653/img_1001…
Hi,
I have a Diesel Merc ML series and daily use it for short trips twice a day (8km return).. and generally only drive a longer distance 15km or more once a fortnight.. have been doing it for 3 years and have not had an issue. Merc does have one of the best DPF system so cant say if this would work for other brands too.
Do also consider other things, like noise, vibration, escalation, etc. as they are different from petrol.. I test drove a few when I was buying and all other diesel cars I test drove were very noisy inside the cabin and there was a degree of vibration, except in the Merc.. I did not trial a Kia or Hyundai though.
I have a similar question, I am looking for something ~10k - 15k used (looked for Sorento, Outlander, ASX etc can't afford Pajero Sports or Pajero). I found that most non-CVT cars to be diesel as well. Any ideas? I used to drive diesels back in old country mostly Hilux, Ranger etc (I first learned to drive on a diesel Corolla CE96), but this DPF thing is pretty new to me.
I would do ~6km for couple of days during the week to train station and ~60km on weekend on freeway. Would it be alright for 10 year old DFP?
a 10 year old DPF will need a physical machine clean at best, and a replacement at worst.
Thanks mate, would it show the condition with an OBD scanner ? like clogged % or something like that
would it show the condition with an OBD scanner ? like clogged % or something like that
Most likely not, unless your bought a top of the line scanner that cost many $$$$$$.
There are clones of the Mitsubishi M.U.T 111 scanners available
Depends on your vehicle. Some have dedicated apps for this purpose.
EGT temp probe in app and watching the temperature movements will find out what's going on pretty fast.
Something like Piston or Car Scanner will work with any OBD dongle and show these numbers.
I can write a more detailed reply later on today.
In January this year, I purchased a 5 year old, one owner petrol Outlander in immaculate condition, full service records with 100,000kl on it, for $18,500.
Fuel economy is excellent. On a recent trip to Canberra from western Sydney, spending 3 days driving around Canberra and return. 720km on one tank (63 litre capacity) I still had 10 litres left in the tank.
Have modern diesels become more adapt to shorter trips over long periods of time?
Not really. In some ways and in some models they've gotten worse.
Depending on your overall driving habits, and the specific vehicle/drivetrain in question, you may or may not experience issues, however it's kind of one of those 'if you have to ask…' situations where if you have a choice, just skip it and never think about it again. The biggest issue with the DPF cleaning cycle is it has to be uninterrupted for ~10 mins, I travel on the highway ~20km almost every day…but almost every day I'm stuck in traffic at some point so it would rarely have the opportunity to run a full cycle. A friend of mine has had this issue with their new Everest in a pretty much identical situation.
Based on the information you've provided (and additional in comments):
Santa Fe - Petrol Hybrid with AWD, 3rd row isn't that big
Palisade - Petrol FWD, bigger 3rd row
I'd also suggest a look at the Kia Carnival (can't be beaten on space/practicality, but FWD only) and the Mazda CX90, Toyota Kluger, Skoda Kodiaq (which are all available with AWD and Petrol and/or Hybrid
If you must have AWD then yes your options are limited. If you make sure your tyres are up to scratch, I wouldn't even worry about AWD unless you have a stupid steep/slippery driveway or something. I'd suggest a sliding scale of need of AWD vs space for 3rd row kids - small 3rd rows are fine for little kids…but you know…kids grow.
Find some interesting places down the freeway to go down to once a month, new café, park or restaurant. Enjoy the new car.
I'm certainly no car expert, but I have had a few diesels and had a few dpf replacements/cleanouts over the years - I am not sure why everyone is so hung up on this (in my view) minor maintenance issue. With a diesel you save so much on fuel per km, generally get more nm punch for your dollar and maybe you have a dpf issue which costs between nothing and $1500 maybe every 5 years or maybe never. We have a premium unleaded, diesel and elec in our home fleet - I love BEV as a daily but diesel wins for me every time over pulp.
I have a 2019 old-man Pajero diesel. Mostly short trips with ocassional interstate road trips. Must have an ultragauge or similar to indicate when DPF burn is happening, catch can, pre fuel filter, egr delete and performance module. Runs like a dream.
I have a 2017 4n14. No delete of anything. Intake and egr cleaned at 100k (camera showed massive restriction). Ryco oil&air separator installed at the same time. One machine dpf clean by that point. Since filter install and another 100k added to the odo, its clean as a whistle (mostly surface soot and it's dry).
Considering how beneficial EGR is for various reasons, and the fact its reducing very harmful toxic emissions, I'd leave it installed.
this post is helping me thnxx
has any urbaners been doing routine DPF forced regens, instead of weekly hwy driving?
You're buying the wrong car—get a used 2021–2022 Prado 150 instead. With the new model coming out, older ones are dropping in price significantly, and many fleet vehicles are coming off lease, making it a great time to buy. You can probably find one with a full logbook history and manay years left on the warranty. Perfect car for any scenario in Aussie conditions.
Why should one have to change their driving to suit the engine. I want to drive my car however I wish, even if it is just short trips to the shops.