So we hear about these overseas investors buying up Australian properties. I'm curious about the financial mechanism for this - how do people get their overseas wealth into the country to pay the 1M+ for a Sydney property? I imagine they don't use Wise at that level. Or do they? In the spirit of OzBargain, is there an expensive or inexpensive way to do it?
I promise I am not a criminal. I don't have the physique or the people skills.
I learned what this was from Animal Kingdom.
Just use the normal bank transfer. No question asked.
Make sure you use westpac
Don’t believe everything you read
Getting the money into Australia isn’t hard, it’s just a bank transfer. What needs to happen is to find someone who is allowed to buy Australian property to be the owner. And trust them not to run off with all your money / assets.
Then you just transfer the money to them. At the moment there are a few loopholes in the KYC regime, which are being fixed. However that doesn’t really matter anyone from the Australian side of things.
Say an overseas investor wants me to buy on their behalf. I sign the contract, they ‘lend’ me the money. I buy the property.
Does it happen as much as people say - no, not at all. Why would you buy an illiquid asset through a third party with limited recourse, when there are so many other ways to get your money out if your own country
I am a trustworthy person that is allowed to buy property, pm me for bank details.
my Nigerian prince friend will contact you
It happens much more when your relatives live here
Pretty sure it is just a regular bank transfer …..
But as someone who whos bank balance is currently sub $200 i wouldnt listen to me
wedged between 2 boogie boards
I wonder what she's doing now
meth probably
Swift payment.
Standard bank transfer with the associated fees?? (Seems not with the majors)
Few examples
https://www.commbank.com.au/personal/international/internati…
https://www.nab.com.au/personal/international-banking/transf…
If you need international bank cheque - many banks aren't even doing these now and point you to the above.
I would assume large OS banks are the same.
Buying and selling eneloops on the black market.
1M is a house deposit these days, not an actual house in most metro areas… Just a regular bank transfer…
buying anything in the Eastern suburbs of Sydney and you are only slightly exaggerating
Transferring money into Australia is easy. Getting it out of the other country is where they run into restrictions.
Carrying $10k in cash when travelling out of the country is the slow option.
When transferring little less (around 40k) bank fees were percentage, but no more than $300. Which is nothing for $1m.
Does bank really make nothing out of currency spread?
Exchange rate was normal, nothing fancy like 5-10% difference.
$300 fees but they eat you up on 5-10% spread? I was thinking something like 2%, on a $1m thats $20k+that$300 =$20,300?
The like of Wise makes 0.228% fees but they gave you spot rate (0% spread).
This is why they warn on other's seemingly good fees but bad in exchange rate.
@foxmulder: Did a compare (as long time wise user) and found out that bank fees + rates were better compared to wise.
Just do your homework before doing something like that.
@localhost: Which bank(s) did you find would send/receive for less than Wise and to/from which country?
I guess you don't read the news …
Normal bank transfers … Banks got huge fine previously … Not all transactions are legitimate and banks cannot catch it 100% perfect all the time.
The money can also go through currency exchange and money remittance service like this one:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/26/curre…
Or this one (looks like cryptocurrency too, besides bank transfers):
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-02/afp-sydney-money-laun…
"It's alleged the group circumvented laws preventing people in Australia transferring money out of China by using a broker linked to the syndicate to obtain funds in Australia.
The group allegedly charged a 10 per cent fee and required customers to deposit the value of the money obtained by the syndicate into a Chinese bank account it controlled."
Bikies
They got wings?
Hells Angels do
Gift cards
EDIT: Be a disability support worker and buy gift cards on the behalf of someone with a disability
EDIT: Be a disability support worker and buy gift cards for yourself to use on groceries and then claim them on tax as a gift for the recipient.
Small Diplomatic Bag
Submarines
BITCOIN
0.5 Richard milles
find a few mates and strap some cash on them and travel back
i will do it!
What devious means do people use to transfer 1M+ into Australia?
You have it around the wrong way…. Its not so much about getting money into Australia, but more so about getting the money out of the country they come from.
China for example isn't overly friendly to just let you transfer large amounts of money out of the country without questions. So buying a 'house' is one way to get the funds out. Once out and the house is resold down the track, surprise surprise the money doesn't go back to China.
You now have moved large wads of money from China to an Australian bank account.
So buying a 'house' is one way to get the funds out.
Are the authoritarian, despotic authorities of such an oppressive regime actually that stupid and naive?
Not too sure it works that easy.
Now, if the one transferring or the recipient is part of, or related to (being bought), to that despotic authoritarian authorities then categorically yes.
Are the authoritarian, despotic authorities of such an oppressive regime actually that stupid and naive?
Happy to hear your views on the topic other than you think I'm wrong with nothing to back it up with.
So you are saying that they don't know about this ? ? ?
you think I'm wrong with nothing to back it up with.
Are you backing it up??
@LFO: So you can't back up your claims…. Cool story bro.
But the shifting of funds from China to Australia via property has been going on for decades!
Buy a overpriced house with a large loan, use funds from China to pay the loan down. Sell the house, funds never go back!
Buying overseas property is a very popular way of holding wealth offshore. Having all your wealth concentrated within one authoritarian regime and unstable economy is risky AF.
The tricky bit is moving it out in the first place, which is done via intermediary steps and not directly via a single bank transfer. But turning money into hard assets like property is extremely sensible.
Yes it is!!
That's is why an authoritarian regime with unstable economy will bend backwards to avoid the masses doing it.
Except for their own elite, of course.
@LFO: Mate, the masses do it all the time.
Why do you think that Macau has evolved into almost purely a casino-based economy, or what do you think that a key function of Hong Kong is?
The 'regime' can try whatever it wants, but people will still try harder to work around it.
Macau
Macau, Hong Kong. Aren't they part of "China"????
The 'regime' can try whatever it wants, but people will still try harder to work around it.
So, the "regime" is not that regimented and oppressive after all …
Macau, Hong Kong. Aren't they part of "China"????
What's your point?
Do you know anything about China at all? or have you been talking out your ass all this time?
These two places are technically China, but run under a separate set of rules and are mainland-accessible places with links into international finance neworks, so they are close and easy places to move CNY into other other currencies and then into the international finance networks.
You talk big here, but it really seems you don't know any high net worth foreigners who have been involved in shifting money around. It also sounds like you've never even stood in a local bank branch in HK/Macau where you see money laundering of CNY->other currencies in person. It's very blantant and obvious what's going on if you just stand there for five minutes.
You keep saying "use a bank" but you don't know anything about FX spreads, not do you even seem to know that you need to talk to an RM for reduced spreads amounts over a certain amounts, and this involves faffing about on the phone for fifteen minutes. And the rates still aren't that good.
There are easy ways to get close to spot rates, and at least one way to get the actual spot (unless it's been closed since the last time I looked at it). Neither involve going through retail banks.
So, the "regime" is not that regimented and oppressive after all …
You're a clown who cannot read. Or only reads what he wants and comes away with a totally different message than what was intended.
@rumblytangara: Personal attacks.
Insults.
One after the other.
Not very skilled with debating obviously.
@LFO: When someone drops below a certain threshold of credibility, they also drop below the threshold for respect.
Congratulations on breaching that threshold.
FWIW, I have witnessed firsthand money laundering activities at the Chinese border- it's impressively organised and very blatant. You on the other hand seem to be talking from a place of total ignorance.
@LFO: Don't worry, your misuse of caps and punctuation filled that niche nicely.
Edit: Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't realised you'd been mangling your punctuation so consistently until reading your most recent post, which caused me to scroll up a bit.
Bravo and thank you for your participation! You get an award!
You can't make shit up any better than this. It's been great.
Don't worry, your misuse of caps and punctuation filled that niche nicely.
Oh no!!.
After the barrage of personal attacks and insults we also have a Grammar Nazi!!!!!.
Makes sense actually.
Not very skilled with debating obviously.
LOL coming from the person who can't back up a single claim……
Just emulating you.
Looking at your comments here, seems most disagree with your views, I can see why.
You are far from emulating me, I made a statement, to which you said it was wrong with zero facts to back up why, like most keyboard warriors do.
All talk, no facts.
All talk, no facts.
Just like you.
You made a vague statement based on who knows what and then, suddenly, it became a legal fact with jurisdictional effect.
Reminds of the other contributor … I saw money changing hands … Facts my foot!!
Please provide an authoritative link to a Chinese bank or financial body or a Chinese government body stating than it is allowed to send bucketfuls of money overseas "to buy a house" … and for non members of the party elite, of course.
Then it is fact proven. Not before.
seems most disagree with your views
Spot on.
Members of the party elite hate to be shown off their dirty laundry. Hated!!!! Hated!!!! Hated!!!!
You made a vague statement based on who knows what and then, suddenly, it became a legal fact with jurisdictional effect.
Lets say I did make a vague statement based on who knows what, but then YOU suddenly popped in saying it was wrong but provided zero facts to back up your claims.
@JimmyF: I'll reiterate: Please provide an authoritative link to a Chinese bank or financial body or a Chinese government body
Thanks
I'll reiterate
I don't need to provide anything based on your comments, its up to you to prove me wrong, not the other way around.
@JimmyF: Nope.
You lucubrated a fancy fantasy that a communist country with strict communist ideals and projects will allow individuals transferring money overseas "to buy a house" overseas.
I doubted, you refuted.
No links no facts.
Only common logic and common sense.
No links no facts.
You are 100% right, I've failed to see any links or facts from you that disagree with my statement.
So, you fabricated the whole "money transfer schema" ?
Oh you are 100% right that you have fabricated some anti "money transfer schema" stance against my post, all while failing to provide any links or facts to back up your statement.
@JimmyF: Fascinating logic of yours.
Picture this:
Poster 1: Coloured pigs fly.
Poster 2: I doubt as they do not exist. But have any links showing otherwise?
Poster 1: I don't have to show anything. You have to provide links stating coloured pigs don't fly. That is it!
Fascinating !!
Fascinating !!
Yes it is…. But that isn't what happened now was it? Scroll up.
I made a statement, that you didn't agree with.
I replied with "Happy to hear your views on the topic other than you think I'm wrong with nothing to back it up with."
Since then, you have failed to provide anything to back up why I'm wrong…. But seems to ensure you're right.
So considering I asked first, it is on you to provide the reasons why, not me.
After the barrage of personal attacks and insults we also have a Grammar Nazi!!!!!.
Dude, you were the one that brought it up in the first place.
Hey!, you forgot to YELL to reinforce the righteousness of your post.
Do you want to keep going with this? There's some saying about holes and digging…
(Hysterical, much?)
@rumblytangara: Ummm misquote? Not my statements.
But LFO will out dig you endless dribble, zero facts!
@LFO: No, only targets with zero understanding, zero credibility, and loudness. Which you have proven yourself to be- again and again and again. I'm sure this will continue.
Buying overseas property is a very popular way of holding wealth offshore
Bingo!
The tricky bit is moving it out in the first place, which is done via intermediary steps and not directly via a single bank transfer. But turning money into hard assets like property is extremely sensible.
Bingo! Rarely are they shifting huge wads in one go, but lots of 'loans' requiring large payments ;)
China for example isn't overly friendly to just let you transfer large amounts of money out of the country without questions. So buying a 'house' is one way to get the funds out.
Given that Chinese (non Australian) citizens cant buy a house in Australia without FIRB approval, it would be pretty easy for banks in China to ask for evidence of FIRB approval before transferring a few million to Australia to buy a house. If Australians had to put up with the Chinese rules around FX exchange then you would have a post on here every day complaining about it
Given that Chinese (non Australian) citizens cant buy a house in Australia without FIRB approval
LOL oh yes, how do they manage to apply and pay that fee to get approval. FIRB approval isn't a road block.
Australian gov doesn't give a sh!t, we sell off anything we can to overseas people, property, companies, ore, gas, farms, milk powder, you name it, its for sale to anyone overseas, no questions asked.
5300 total FIRB approvals last year for residential property. $1.1bn was Chinese. Combined value of residential property sales in Australia last year was $613bn
@dtc: Buyers don't need FIRB approval once they become Australian citizens or permanent residency, but still have funds overseas to shuffle over.
Permanent residents can buy as many houses as they like. Getting a permanent residency is not hard if you've got qualifications that are in demand. Most study here then get a PR. After that they're free to buy as much property as their funds allow.
There is parts of australia that does not require FIRB apporvals also
Not sure why you're getting the downvotes.
Some countries do make it close to impossible to take money out of the country; Your legit money.
They have different rules for policitians and elitists who have dodgy avenues to take the money out and buy properties overseas. They don't allow even citizens of the recipient country to take their money out.
Not sure why you're getting the downvotes.
As I am downvoted too I suspect many of those politicians and elitists are here too. They hate competition.
No, having read some of your stuff here, you are downvoted for not knowing WTF you are talking about.
I often wonder the same as well. I have seen Chinese spend $10M+ buying big mansions. There are actually two questions:
1) How did they get the money out of China?
2) How did they get that amount of money into Australia?
Bank transfer
Surely your first question should be 'are they chinese citizens or Australian citizens who have chinese ancestry'.
Don't use a bank transfer, use an international money transfer service e.g. xe.com
They will give you better rates/fees, which on large money transfer will make a huge difference.
Perhaps opening an FX account will help. Then convert to AUD as needed.
Chances are it will be USD or Euros or Pounds or Chinese Yuan. HSBC (and many others) will have you cover.
Is Wise a good one to use? What is their limit transferring in or out of the country? How about Ozforex or XE? My wife was transferring money to another country using remitly and eventually she was blocked. We opened an account in my name but I'm guessing it will only be a matter of time until I am blocked to. There's no way we sent large amounts. Under $100,000 in less than 8 months while we were living overseas.
10+ years ago I used Ozforex to move money from the UK to Australia. It worked well, rates were good and their phone staff were helpful.
It was much better value than moving money via bank transfer. I have no idea how they compare now.
I have used Wise recently to sent small sums of money overseas. It worked well, was good value and I will use again.
I will probably use the Wise VISA Debit Card the next time I travel overseas.
I have also previous used CurrencyFair to send small small sums of money overseas. It worked well then, but they have "placed a temporary pause on the processing of transactions for customers based in Australia." since February this year. Google it to learn more.
I have been unable to access/transfer the small amount of money in my Euro account since then. They don't respond to my emails. Obviously I do not recommend CurrencyFair.
"Iwill probably use the Wise VISA Debit Card the next time I travel overseas."
What are the advantages of the Wise debit card over Ubank or ING?
@BluebirdV: You can load money into Wise account and convert it to so many different currencies in the card. You can have 1 physical card + 3 virtual cards (can be deleted and get 3 new cards again). You can have "several bank accounts" from several countries in your account. Imagine you have USA bank account, Euro, etc. under your name with just 1 Wise account. It's like having 1 physical card and 3 virtual cards that can contain several bank account numbers and so many other currencies without bank account numbers. Feels like having a "global bank" with global currencies under 1 physical card and 3 virtual cards. Wise is not a bank.
I've found Wise to be excellent. You get very close to spot market rates, and the commission fee is really small, so a win/win. I also like the transparency on their app/site which tells you in real time, whether they are the cheapest or not (based on live rates) vs other online competitors and the banks.
In the (GBP/AUD) transfers I have done, they have been the cheapest or 2nd cheapest (when looking at actual money delivered).
A feature I also like is the ability to set-up a transfer at a price limit. i.e do a transfer when the spot price hits an exchange rate you set. Great if you don't need the money urgently, allowing you to take advantage of the fluctuations which occur daily in the FX markets.
I am not aware of any transfer limits.
Ive used wise multiple times to send large amounts. They ask for proof of sale of property or information on where the money has come from to comply with the money laundering scheme etc. But i am unable to find a company that will beat their rates.
I think long time ago Wise sent email about $100k limit. If more than that and you have a business, there is Wise Business account.
As you are not a criminal there is no limit on transferring funds into Australia via normal banking channels.
You can even bring as much cash or cash equivalent into Australia as long as you declare it, and you may be asked to show the source of funds.
https://www.austrac.gov.au/individuals/moving-money-across-i…
https://www.rba.gov.au/fin-services/resources/cash-report.ht…
Most people use banks.
Then they do a bank transfer …
Yes, governments authorities at both ends will know about it.
Hawala